Due to the 50%winloss for every1 solo players will find long loss spree’s are more comon then long win spree’s as the system puts you up vs high mmr players with scrubby/low mmr players just because it wants you too lose, wich causes the toxicity in most matches thus the system should always put you up vs equal /5% diverence max to ensure every match is winnable also they should make piploss 1 max and change it so that only you can affect your own piploss and not your team that way people running non meta builds are only screwing themselfs over instead of the whole team(in term off piploss win/loss wil still be affected by them)
A system that stacks the odds against you isnt fun nor does it show skill in any way + it would make it harder for people to exploit their way up to legend.
why you say this? the system is projected to go up, with a lot of place where you can’t go down. and pips system too, you never loose a pip with a win, but with a loss you can gain 0 or even 1.
so a player with the avarage skill supposed to be stopped in the middle of all the players ladders, will go up in the leagues.
a player of average skill is supposed to be stopped in the middle and the fact i would like to see a max pip loss of 1 is because its allmost impossible to gain multiple pips while its way too easy too lose multiple pips only because the system decided it is time to get back to 50% win-loss and from ruby and up its not projected to go up since you can lose tiers and pips
if the system put you in 50% win loss is a perfect system.
the reward system is projected for go up in the divisions because :
if you win : +1 +2 +3
if you loose : -3 -2 -1 0 +1
so doing 100 match and win 50 and lose 50 probably you will gain some pips.
if the system put you against very strong teams and loose 100 times, you gain 100 pips
if the system put you in 50% win loss is a perfect system.
the reward system is projected for go up in the divisions because :
if you win : +1 +2 +3
if you loose : -3 -2 -1 0 +1
so doing 100 match and win 50 and lose 50 probably you will gain some pips.
if the system put you against very strong teams and loose 100 times, you gain 100 pips
… Not true.
There are score thresholds you have to meet to get a pip against teams you’re projected to lose to. Usually, not always, 400+ will get you a pip if you lose against a team you were supposed to lose to. 300- 399 will be no pips lost. 200- 299 is 1 pip. 100-199 is 2 pips. 0- 99 is 3 pips lost. The same can be said for winning.
The OP is right the system is stacked, but the pip gain is not the problem. It is the matchmaking and the fact that a team MMR is made which puts players in a situation where the system expects one or two players to carry the rest of the team. Next season pairing players of similar MMR on the same team should fix this. However, there will still be lopsided games for the first week or two as players get placed in a proper rank.
if the system put you in 50% win loss is a perfect system.
the reward system is projected for go up in the divisions because :
if you win : +1 +2 +3
if you loose : -3 -2 -1 0 +1
so doing 100 match and win 50 and lose 50 probably you will gain some pips.
if the system put you against very strong teams and loose 100 times, you gain 100 pips
… Not true.
There are score thresholds you have to meet to get a pip against teams you’re projected to lose to. Usually, not always, 400+ will get you a pip if you lose against a team you were supposed to lose to. 300- 399 will be no pips lost. 200- 299 is 1 pip. 100-199 is 2 pips. 0- 99 is 3 pips lost. The same can be said for winning.
The OP is right the system is stacked, but the pip gain is not the problem. It is the matchmaking and the fact that a team MMR is made which puts players in a situation where the system expects one or two players to carry the rest of the team. Next season pairing players of similar MMR on the same team should fix this. However, there will still be lopsided games for the first week or two as players get placed in a proper rank.
no if you win you cannot lose pips…dosen’t metter point in big math numbers on 100 match if you win 50 and lose 50 you will gain pip.
the matchmaking is random you have the same probability to have high mmr team or low…
if the matchmaking is broken is broken for you and for your enemy team, is not a factor in gain loss pips.
no if you win you cannot lose pips…dosen’t metter point in big math numbers on 100 match if you win 50 and lose 50 you will gain pip.
the matchmaking is random you have the same probability to have high mmr team or low…
if the matchmaking is broken is broken for you and for your enemy team, is not a factor in gain loss pips.
Matchmaking isn’t random the algorithm for it is in the wiki.
Not necessarily true. Matchmaking does assume a high ranked player can carry lower ranked players. It is possible for for a team of equal skill be pitted against a team of lower skill because one player’s personal MMR skews the average. This would create an unfair match-up and not be equal, so it is a factor.
Regardless, the leaguse has not been the greatest thing ever. There are a number of things to fix. I personally thinks pips are fine and matchmaking is the real issue.
With the new system its asurd how big the missmatches are. Had multiple games where higher rated friend teamed with random lower rated mate that ended up being heavily outmatched.
Ppl who dont dodge in diamond /legendary games etc. Funny as kitten to see but really bad for the game.
no if you win you cannot lose pips…dosen’t metter point in big math numbers on 100 match if you win 50 and lose 50 you will gain pip.
the matchmaking is random you have the same probability to have high mmr team or low…
if the matchmaking is broken is broken for you and for your enemy team, is not a factor in gain loss pips.
Matchmaking isn’t random the algorithm for it is in the wiki.
random means you can be in team1 (better team) or team2 (worst team) randomly.
in math term you can’t blame matchmaking system if is broken is broken for all.
Not necessarily true. Matchmaking does assume a high ranked player can carry lower ranked players. It is possible for for a team of equal skill be pitted against a team of lower skill because one player’s personal MMR skews the average. This would create an unfair match-up and not be equal, so it is a factor.
Regardless, the leaguse has not been the greatest thing ever. There are a number of things to fix. I personally thinks pips are fine and matchmaking is the real issue.
is not a factor because you can be in both team, in large match numbers, you are 50% in winning side.
no if you win you cannot lose pips…dosen’t metter point in big math numbers on 100 match if you win 50 and lose 50 you will gain pip.
the matchmaking is random you have the same probability to have high mmr team or low…
if the matchmaking is broken is broken for you and for your enemy team, is not a factor in gain loss pips.
Matchmaking isn’t random the algorithm for it is in the wiki.
random means you can be in team1 (better team) or team2 (worst team) randomly.
in math term you can’t blame matchmaking system if is broken is broken for all.
If you are talking about the mathematical meaning of random then I can guarantee you it’s not random.
Random by Webster “made, done, happening, or chosen without method or conscious decision.”
Random numbers “A random number is a number generated by a process, whose outcome is unpredictable, and which cannot be subsequentially reliably reproduced.”
The method of obtaining the outcome is defined in the wiki your lack of knowledge does not make it any less deterministic.
With the new system its asurd how big the missmatches are. Had multiple games where higher rated friend teamed with random lower rated mate that ended up being heavily outmatched.
Ppl who dont dodge in diamond /legendary games etc. Funny as kitten to see but really bad for the game.
Quality matchmaking boys!
all have asked for this, to avoid diamond group with amber for have low level match, and now this is a problem?
if you group with friends, need to be prepared.
the only thing that i will add is a guild ladder.
all 5 man party must be of a single guild, and compete for the guild ladder that have only glicko system for rewarding best guilds with guild things and achievements.
a guild can have multiple teams, but the mmr is single for that guild.
in this matches you don’t gain/lose pips.
playing a match with a guild bound you to that guild for the seasons.
more or less like gw1 gvg.
4 men q forbidden
3-2-1 man q go in for league matches.
no if you win you cannot lose pips…dosen’t metter point in big math numbers on 100 match if you win 50 and lose 50 you will gain pip.
the matchmaking is random you have the same probability to have high mmr team or low…
if the matchmaking is broken is broken for you and for your enemy team, is not a factor in gain loss pips.
Matchmaking isn’t random the algorithm for it is in the wiki.
random means you can be in team1 (better team) or team2 (worst team) randomly.
in math term you can’t blame matchmaking system if is broken is broken for all.
If you are talking about the mathematical meaning of random then I can guarantee you it’s not random.
Random by Webster “made, done, happening, or chosen without method or conscious decision.”
Random numbers “A random number is a number generated by a process, whose outcome is unpredictable, and which cannot be subsequentially reliably reproduced.”
The method of obtaining the outcome is defined in the wiki your lack of knowledge does not make it any less deterministic.
ok you need an example :
you are mmr 1000.
you complain that you have this team
you 1000, 300,300,300,300 = average 440
vs
440 full team.
but you can fight in a team with all mmr 1000 vs a team with one that have 2500 and the other very low, with the same probability!
both scenarios have the same probability so matchmaking is not a factor.
no if you win you cannot lose pips…dosen’t metter point in big math numbers on 100 match if you win 50 and lose 50 you will gain pip.
the matchmaking is random you have the same probability to have high mmr team or low…
if the matchmaking is broken is broken for you and for your enemy team, is not a factor in gain loss pips.
Matchmaking isn’t random the algorithm for it is in the wiki.
random means you can be in team1 (better team) or team2 (worst team) randomly.
in math term you can’t blame matchmaking system if is broken is broken for all.
If you are talking about the mathematical meaning of random then I can guarantee you it’s not random.
Random by Webster “made, done, happening, or chosen without method or conscious decision.”
Random numbers “A random number is a number generated by a process, whose outcome is unpredictable, and which cannot be subsequentially reliably reproduced.”
The method of obtaining the outcome is defined in the wiki your lack of knowledge does not make it any less deterministic.
ok you need an example :
you are mmr 1000.
you complain that you have this team
you 1000, 300,300,300,300 = average 440
vs
440 full team.
but you can fight in a team with all mmr 1000 vs a team with one that have 2500 and the other very low, with the same probability!
both scenarios have the same probability so matchmaking is not a factor.
Nope the probability is skewed towards a lower spread because, over time the spread is increased. Of course if there aren’t many players on your level you are more likely to wait enough to have a larger spread. A few days(?) ago during a matchmaking adjustment test the spread was increasing too much over time which lead to a lot of unbalanced matches.
no if you win you cannot lose pips…dosen’t metter point in big math numbers on 100 match if you win 50 and lose 50 you will gain pip.
the matchmaking is random you have the same probability to have high mmr team or low…
if the matchmaking is broken is broken for you and for your enemy team, is not a factor in gain loss pips.
Matchmaking isn’t random the algorithm for it is in the wiki.
random means you can be in team1 (better team) or team2 (worst team) randomly.
in math term you can’t blame matchmaking system if is broken is broken for all.
If you are talking about the mathematical meaning of random then I can guarantee you it’s not random.
Random by Webster “made, done, happening, or chosen without method or conscious decision.”
Random numbers “A random number is a number generated by a process, whose outcome is unpredictable, and which cannot be subsequentially reliably reproduced.”
The method of obtaining the outcome is defined in the wiki your lack of knowledge does not make it any less deterministic.
ok you need an example :
you are mmr 1000.
you complain that you have this team
you 1000, 300,300,300,300 = average 440
vs
440 full team.
but you can fight in a team with all mmr 1000 vs a team with one that have 2500 and the other very low, with the same probability!
both scenarios have the same probability so matchmaking is not a factor.
You have to understand that rating points don’t have a linear correlation with skill so a 2,000 would be more than twice as good as a 1,000 and a 1,000 is less than twice as good as a 500. Take chess for example, a 1,200 will usually smash a 1,000 while a 1,700 could give a 1,900 a good game. Likewise a 2,500 has credible drawing chances against a 2,700 especially in classical time controls but the 2,700 can see further ahead so he still has better winning chances, just that at higher skill levels smaller details of knowledge become more important as everyone up there mastered the big important basics, but one small advantage by itself usually isn’t enough to win and this applies to most games, online, board, or otherwise. However, a 300 and 500 rated player may as well be equally bad so it’s a tossup.
Tl;dr: The 1,000 rated player would trivially carry that match hard in practice even though the average is technically the same.
no if you win you cannot lose pips…dosen’t metter point in big math numbers on 100 match if you win 50 and lose 50 you will gain pip.
the matchmaking is random you have the same probability to have high mmr team or low…
if the matchmaking is broken is broken for you and for your enemy team, is not a factor in gain loss pips.
Matchmaking isn’t random the algorithm for it is in the wiki.
random means you can be in team1 (better team) or team2 (worst team) randomly.
in math term you can’t blame matchmaking system if is broken is broken for all.
If you are talking about the mathematical meaning of random then I can guarantee you it’s not random.
Random by Webster “made, done, happening, or chosen without method or conscious decision.”
Random numbers “A random number is a number generated by a process, whose outcome is unpredictable, and which cannot be subsequentially reliably reproduced.”
The method of obtaining the outcome is defined in the wiki your lack of knowledge does not make it any less deterministic.
ok you need an example :
you are mmr 1000.
you complain that you have this team
you 1000, 300,300,300,300 = average 440
vs
440 full team.
but you can fight in a team with all mmr 1000 vs a team with one that have 2500 and the other very low, with the same probability!
both scenarios have the same probability so matchmaking is not a factor.
Nope the probability is skewed towards a lower spread because, over time the spread is increased. Of course if there aren’t many players on your level your are more likely to wait enough to have a larger spread. A few days(?) ago during a matchmaking ajustement test the spread was increasing too much over time which lead to a lot of unbalanced matches.
unbalanced match are not a problem you can be on both side with same probability, or you are saying that you are unlucky and you are always on losing side?
if so there are lucky people that are always on winning side.
in my experience I have had some unbalanced (500-100)matches (not so much 10% more or less), but in this case you need to fight hard on both side for gain a pip more or lose a pip less.
ok you cannot win(or lose) but there is still an objective.
in gw1 gvg was the same, but when we was facing top 20-30 guilds the only way to stop the massacre was /resign and lose 3-4 point.
This is all the fault of MMR averaging matchmaking which thinks higher MMR players can carry a couple of noobs versus a full group of more average MMR players. Basically as long as both teams have roughly equivalent average overall MMRs everything is fine and dandy. It’s complete rubbish and always has been. The new league matchmaking should fix this if its works the way they claim it will.
It is fact that system tries to force you into 50% win ratio by placing you into matches you are not supposed to win if you have too high win rate. I couldn’t care less about leagues at this point but what REALLY annoys me and always did is that those matches are waste of time. You sit in queue unable to do anything due to restriction to HotM, then you get placed in matches that are have to play (otherwise punishment system kicks in) but not supposed to win. Let’t assume player A only does pvp. The system literary fills 40% of his play time with terrible experience and another 20% with afking in hotm.
Absolutely lopsided matches are too frequent and no fun to either sides. At least not for me: i obvioulsy don’t like to lose 100-500 but i also hate matches where we literary farm enemy team at spawn.
no if you win you cannot lose pips…dosen’t metter point in big math numbers on 100 match if you win 50 and lose 50 you will gain pip.
the matchmaking is random you have the same probability to have high mmr team or low…
if the matchmaking is broken is broken for you and for your enemy team, is not a factor in gain loss pips.
Matchmaking isn’t random the algorithm for it is in the wiki.
random means you can be in team1 (better team) or team2 (worst team) randomly.
in math term you can’t blame matchmaking system if is broken is broken for all.
If you are talking about the mathematical meaning of random then I can guarantee you it’s not random.
Random by Webster “made, done, happening, or chosen without method or conscious decision.”
Random numbers “A random number is a number generated by a process, whose outcome is unpredictable, and which cannot be subsequentially reliably reproduced.”
The method of obtaining the outcome is defined in the wiki your lack of knowledge does not make it any less deterministic.
ok you need an example :
you are mmr 1000.
you complain that you have this team
you 1000, 300,300,300,300 = average 440
vs
440 full team.
but you can fight in a team with all mmr 1000 vs a team with one that have 2500 and the other very low, with the same probability!
both scenarios have the same probability so matchmaking is not a factor.
Nope the probability is skewed towards a lower spread because, over time the spread is increased. Of course if there aren’t many players on your level your are more likely to wait enough to have a larger spread. A few days(?) ago during a matchmaking ajustement test the spread was increasing too much over time which lead to a lot of unbalanced matches.
unbalanced match are not a problem you can be on both side with same probability, or you are saying that you are unlucky and you are always on losing side?
if so there are lucky people that are always on winning side.
in my experience I have had some unbalanced (500-100)matches (not so much 10% more or less), but in this case you need to fight hard on both side for gain a pip more or lose a pip less.
ok you cannot win(or lose) but there is still an objective.
in gw1 gvg was the same, but when we was facing top 20-30 guilds the only way to stop the massacre was /resign and lose 3-4 point.
You’re missing the part where after obtaining the players the matchmaking algorithm will try to distribute the players in a, as close as possible, balanced manner. After that it’ll calculate the winning probability for each team and adjust the pip rewards according to that and the ratio of points obtained.
Of course the side you are on depends on the skill of all participant.
Fact is matches are very lobsided as stated before. The fact is a “1000” mmr player could carry 4 “500” mmr players but not if those “500” mmr players are just absolutly bad run non meta builds/classes without the skill/determination to fight till the end, then there is also the issue of bad players getting carry’d by others then try to play solo without effect or the players that abuse the system in a way its almost impossible to lose pips (have a friend on a smurf account on the same team and turn off client (another reason why team and solo que should get split up).
“I actually hate getting win streaks, because I can only imagine how it makes my MMR skyrocked until i get paired up with ppl running off point and dying by the NPC’s. That algorithm will do anything to get me down to 50% again”….
