Guild Wars 2

yeap… its bad

Lopez.7369:

The MMR deviation for new players is way too high and lets someone at the default rating get matched with players in the top 500,

This. I am fine with losing matches because we’re getting outplayed. But it’s getting rather irritating to lose because you get a newbie the game assumes is top 500.

In my last match, I had a necro in my group who spent the entire game sitting in front of the enemy spawn trying to duel people. I give myself a gold star for not raging.

What’s the point of being on the leaderboards when you are still being grouped with r9 players with no tournament experience?

The whole system is a complete mess. I really hope fixing it is at the top of the dev priority list, because no number of bells, whistles or rewards matter when the matchup is a laugher.

I know that in the last week my personal skill level has improved, I get more kills, I die much less frequently, I hold points — and I’m losing 2/3 of my matches and my rank is dropping to where it was when I started.

I think there’s also some problem where once you get mired near the bottom of the rankings, it’s impossible to get out. I’m going to be paired with people who aren’t really here to PvP pretty much forever now, and at best I’m going to win 50% of my games, and I don’t see how my position is going to improve. I could be wrong about that, though.

Qaelyn.7612:

The whole system is a complete mess. I really hope fixing it is at the top of the dev priority list, because no number of bells, whistles or rewards matter when the matchup is a laugher.

I know that in the last week my personal skill level has improved, I get more kills, I die much less frequently, I hold points — and I’m losing 2/3 of my matches and my rank is dropping to where it was when I started.

I think there’s also some problem where once you get mired near the bottom of the rankings, it’s impossible to get out. I’m going to be paired with people who aren’t really here to PvP pretty much forever now, and at best I’m going to win 50% of my games, and I don’t see how my position is going to improve. I could be wrong about that, though.

agreed man. I achieved rank 72 in November. Now, I’m rank 65%…… and i keep losing because i get stuck with just poor players. Once you get low… your just stuck. Game is just getting bad.

lol, just got dishonorable debuff…. only reason I’m leaving is because its either 4 v 5 or 3 v 5 anyway…. which happened to be about 20% of all my matches.

This game just got REALLY bad.

solo players are forced to play teamQ now when wanna rank up – this thin out all MMR ranges in soloQ

simple

Lopez.7369:

I think at lower ratings, assuming one deserves to actually be top rated, it would be possible and even easy to carry entire games.

I think that’s unrealistic. There’s only so much one person can do.

More to the point, if you’re good but not “the best”, it seems the current system will keep you mired in the lower echelons forever. With half the players not even really there for PvP and/or having no idea what they’re doing, you’re going to lose a lot of games.

In team queue, it’s even worse.

Regarding moving out of low rank: I had no issue with carrying/climbing prior to this last patch and did it several times without complaining. I accepted that this is the nature of a soloQ style and that the leaderboard is actually a measure of one’s ability to do so.

However, since the 12/10 patch I’ve been completely unable to do this. I didn’t start as low as before and I tanked tonight due to several lopsided matches, including a 3v5. I went from decent ranking to now very low, and now will have to work even harder to recover from ridiculous matchups. It seems that this is becoming far more common, and whereas before I wouldn’t complain about carrying myself out of lower rankings, now it seems extremely disheartening to try to do this when you get people just purposefully afking.

Justin ODell.9517:

Lopez.7369:

Three matches today. Three sweeps.

Your matches have been even. You are on the high skill side of the curve and haven’t been getting any new players on any of your recent rosters. Both you and the people you’ve played with have had a stable MMR.

I don’t know what to tell you.

I’d say that the sweeps currently happening are more due to team class composition than MMR now. As well as the hardcounters that the balance team seems intent on adding to the game

Justin ODell.9517:

Lopez.7369:

Three matches today. Three sweeps.

Your matches have been even. You are on the high skill side of the curve and haven’t been getting any new players on any of your recent rosters. Both you and the people you’ve played with have had a stable MMR.

I don’t know what to tell you.

I think the OP misled people on this post to feed off the perceived negativety with teh Qs, just goes to show you cant always believe the forums 100%

Justin ODell.9517:

Lopez.7369:

Three matches today. Three sweeps.

Your matches have been even. You are on the high skill side of the curve and haven’t been getting any new players on any of your recent rosters. Both you and the people you’ve played with have had a stable MMR.

I don’t know what to tell you.

Dont need to tell him anything else, just the other 1000 people with jaded perceptions, lack of information and who remember only the bad matches.

Some anti-class stack thing would help some of the crying too.

Unfortunately, a lot of people just stop trying when they get down. So matches that would end 500-400 if everyone kept playing end 500-100.

Sounds like the matchmaking is working just fine. It’s the playerbase that’s not functioning very well.

Justin ODell.9517:

Lopez.7369:

Three matches today. Three sweeps.

Your matches have been even. You are on the high skill side of the curve and haven’t been getting any new players on any of your recent rosters. Both you and the people you’ve played with have had a stable MMR.

I don’t know what to tell you.

LOL! Somebody was caught in a lie. Feel like most people do this.

I have low hopes that they will ever tackle this problem. One common element I’ve seen since the mmr change is: 4v5 and low ranks with high rank players. For example a team my be made up of r39, 44, 45 then there will be a 19 and 11 going up against a team composed of r40s and 50s. The result is a blow out. Sadly all of those matches count against your personal rating, yet the ranking system isn’t very personal.

Played 6 matches yesterday. 2 were extremely close losses of <30. 1 was 4v5 loss by >300. 3 wins by >100.

So just to add my percieved experience to the stack: sometimes MM works, sometimes it doesn’t… I guess they’re working on addressing it further but I’ve also noticed significantly reduced instances of 4v5s… feels like its <10% of games now. And when the match is really close it’s EXTREMELY fun win or lose.

Lopez.7369:

It could be a class composition issue. I obviously don’t know for sure.

What I do know is most of my matches are won by point margins higher than 100, and who will win is typically obvious after one team absolutely crushes the other in the opening fight.

Maybe I’m expecting too much out of solo queue.

What you just described has more to do with how the game is designed than matchmaking. 100 points is not a very big margin and the outcome any one team fight can seal the match.

As Justin said you are playing with people near your level so I would look at other factors.

What exactly do you consider a “sweep”?

The 4 vs. 21 are still annoying. (1 leaver on your team, no pet classes vs. team with 2 necro, 2 mesmer where each of them can tank more than 1 of your people because of all the pets).

@lopez

there can always be matches like 500-100 or something even when both team are simliar in skill or matchup. You cna see this even when top team play.

It can always be some lucky play . or better tactics with objectisvs or something

just check old match from paradim and carcrush they never was 499/500 or something but at the end both teams was nearly TOP list from everything

you just cant tell on only 3 or 4 games – do it on 100+ and you will see its somehow normal

sorry i dont know the right english words for this but think you get it^^

Because 5 and 3 and 4 are all statistically relevant data sets. Anecdotes are anecdotal. Hyperbole is hyperbolic. Oh, and turds are brown.

Justin ODell.9517:

Lopez.7369:

Three matches today. Three sweeps.

Your matches have been even. You are on the high skill side of the curve and haven’t been getting any new players on any of your recent rosters. Both you and the people you’ve played with have had a stable MMR.

I don’t know what to tell you.

Justin- YOu are always good to respond to the players and I would first like to say thanks for your endless hours taking care the us all.

Now to the juicy part, Can you maybe outline the system better for us. I myself don’t under stand how I get the pairings I get in Pvp. 2 nights ago I seemed to get a fair shake in matches between both sides. fight where close win or lose. But last night I see to get a lot of low levels on my team and not so much on the other team. I was averaging 2-3 sub level 10 players on my team while the other team maybe had one sub level 10 player. One match I even had two level 1’s on my team. We died big on that one. I know you guys are working on some of these matchmaking issues but maybe i just need to understand the current map. what puts me in those brackets? Why is it so different day by day? Why so many low players on my team. Any explanation would be great and Im sure there are a few secrets hidden in the formulas you can’t tell us or you would have to kill us. Any explanation would be awesome!

Justin ODell.9517:

Drafigo.4690:

Now to the juicy part, Can you maybe outline the system better for us. I myself don’t under stand how I get the pairings I get in Pvp. 2 nights ago I seemed to get a fair shake in matches between both sides. fight where close win or lose. But last night I see to get a lot of low levels on my team and not so much on the other team. I was averaging 2-3 sub level 10 players on my team while the other team maybe had one sub level 10 player. One match I even had two level 1’s on my team. We died big on that one. I know you guys are working on some of these matchmaking issues but maybe i just need to understand the current map. what puts me in those brackets? Why is it so different day by day? Why so many low players on my team. Any explanation would be great and Im sure there are a few secrets hidden in the formulas you can’t tell us or you would have to kill us. Any explanation would be awesome!

There are two things that can cause that sort of behavior.

1. The concurrency at the time you play. As concurrency drops, so does the quality of matchmaking because we have to cast a wider net to find a match.
2. Your MMR is on or near the default MMR. When you are near the default you are more likely to be paired with new players. It could be that your MMR dropped, or raised, just enough to put you near the peak of the curve on one day. The more you play the less your MMR deviation should fluctuate, so you should start to see less variance.

The fact you had low rank players on you team, and the other team did not is just dumb luck. Only MMR is used when deciding which team someone should be on, so any other pattern is just random coincidence.

That said, we are working on changes to matchmaking that I believe will help reduce the skill gap between players. This will improve the quality of games for both new and veteran players alike.

Your the best, thanks!

Justin ODell.9517:

That said, we are working on changes to matchmaking that I believe will help reduce the skill gap between players. This will improve the quality of games for both new and veteran players alike.

I don’t understand why you still show the rank of players in a match. It’s obviously causing a lot of player confusion and QQ pretty much from day 1. And i can’t think of any good reason to display it, especially after it’s been blatantly exploited/farmed.

I vaguely recall that you don’t have the technology yet to display ladder position in-game, but at the very least you could remove the rank display asap.

Anet should remove this “Matchmaking” + the “ladder”.

Its both a pain in the kitten.

Then we would have a real random arena and not a carry/rage/4vs5/1noob9pvper Arena

Its not the MMR, tis the players.
I was at ladderplace 25 (SoloQ) and my teammates still refuse to play tactical. They zerg happy over the map, dont protect any points or do something skillful. To be true most players which are in the Top 200 now are just so bad, they dont deserve getting listed anywhere. A lowskilled community cant be fixed by matchmaking.

Rieselle.5079:

I don’t understand why you still show the rank of players in a match. It’s obviously causing a lot of player confusion and QQ pretty much from day 1. And i can’t think of any good reason to display it, especially after it’s been blatantly exploited/farmed.

I’d support removing rank display at the end of matches. Unfortunately, our playerbase can’t handle that information.

Necro’s are the curse imo. They can ‘zerg’ a spot the best, they can lock you down at the same time as dealing tremendous damage to you, meanwhile they can shield tons of extra hitpoints behind their normal bar with death shroud. In zerg fights (minimum 2 players from each team involved, in a single cap point), necro (if played correctly), pushes their own team to victory.

Been teamed against 2-3 necro’s very often, and it’s outrageous how easy it is for them.

It’s also outrageous how OP complete (condition) bunkers are, to defend a cap point. They cannot be killed with a basic build, you need a complete super pressure build or they survive everything you throw at them (while slowly dying yourself due to lower survival).

Combine the necro with a bunker against, standalone professions (Ele, mesmer unless PI build, warrior power build – no bow included, guardian – unless incredible well played, ranger without spirits, etc) and the first has a 80% chance to win, unless the player skills are crazy favored in the ‘standalone profession’ team. For some reason, I end up 90% of times in the team that qualifies the most for the so called ‘standalone profession’-team.

I managed not to ragequit for a few days, but yesterday it got the best of me.

Unless Anet fixes this tremendously, i will completely stop playing PVP.

Justin ODell.9517:

1. Your MMR is on or near the default MMR. When you are near the default you are more likely to be paired with new players. It could be that your MMR dropped, or raised, just enough to put you near the peak of the curve on one day. The more you play the less your MMR deviation should fluctuate, so you should start to see less variance.

And this is exactly why there should be an entry barrier.

Oni Link.4621:

Justin ODell.9517:

1. Your MMR is on or near the default MMR. When you are near the default you are more likely to be paired with new players. It could be that your MMR dropped, or raised, just enough to put you near the peak of the curve on one day. The more you play the less your MMR deviation should fluctuate, so you should start to see less variance.

And this is exactly why there should be an entry barrier.

It’s not really that simple. New players have to start somewhere, whether they’re rank 3 or rank 15. Honestly, I don’t think time spent in hotjoin is any indicator of how competent someone trying solo arena for the first time will be.

The tutorials should absolutely be re-designed. There could also be hotjoin rooms with only low-ranking players allowed, and new players could be directed there first. I don’t think it’s good to prohibit new players from doing ranked matches entirely. There are occasionally competent WvW players who come try PvP, as well as second accounts and NA/EU transfers. There could maybe be a restriction of a few ranks, but I wouldn’t want to see <r20s banned from arenas like some people have been suggesting.

would be no problem to let new (no tournaments) players play in their own pool and can join normal tournaments first after 20 wins

and the games they need to get this 20 wins can arenanet use to find their start-MMR

i dont see any problem with this

infantrydiv.1620:

Justin ODell.9517:

Lopez.7369:

Three matches today. Three sweeps.

Your matches have been even. You are on the high skill side of the curve and haven’t been getting any new players on any of your recent rosters. Both you and the people you’ve played with have had a stable MMR.

I don’t know what to tell you.

I’d say that the sweeps currently happening are more due to team class composition than MMR now. As well as the hardcounters that the balance team seems intent on adding to the game

+1

Makes sense to me.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Unfortunately, a lot of people just stop trying when they get down. So matches that would end 500-400 if everyone kept playing end 500-100.

Sounds like the matchmaking is working just fine. It’s the playerbase that’s not functioning very well.

+1

This also make sense. People are getting good at seeing when their team is going to lose, and they stop trying, because if you aren’t trying, you can say you were not really “beaten” and therefore feel no shame in the loss.

What you may be seeing is people “resigning the match” when it is no longer enjoyable for them.

NevirSayDie.6235:

It’s not really that simple. New players have to start somewhere, whether they’re rank 3 or rank 15. Honestly, I don’t think time spent in hotjoin is any indicator of how competent someone trying solo arena for the first time will be.

The tutorials should absolutely be re-designed. There could also be hotjoin rooms with only low-ranking players allowed, and new players could be directed there first. I don’t think it’s good to prohibit new players from doing ranked matches entirely. There are occasionally competent WvW players who come try PvP, as well as second accounts and NA/EU transfers. There could maybe be a restriction of a few ranks, but I wouldn’t want to see <r20s banned from arenas like some people have been suggesting.

I absolutely agree about tutorials. In their current status they are useless since they don’t teach anything about the real game. If a Co-op mode (players vs bots) could be implemented, it would help a lot.
But since re-designing tutorials is a way longer-to-implement solution that an entry barrier, I would prefer the barrier for now (rank 20 is too high, but R10 may be a start).

Anet needs to deter all the first-timers and pve’rs who don’t even try to learn anything about pvp – those who only do SoloQ for the rewards and not the actual fun of pvping.

There was a time not to long ago where people who wanted to learn to pvp started out in hotjoins or grouped up with friends. I think those days are kind of gone since its much more enticing/rewarding to get silver/rank points/glory all in one go, and why not it doesn’t even matter if your a rank 1 you can get lucky just by being in a game where its 4 v 5 or getting carried. Its basically free rewards for them.

What I suggest is anet adjust the pve rewards based on their pvp rank. If they are say rank 1-10, they should only get like 5 silver a win for SoloQ (max of 50 silver a day) – rank 10-20 should be like 10 silver, 20-30 should be 15 silver and then after rank 30 they can receive the maximum benefits. This might deter those random could-care-less pver’s from getting the same rewards as legitimate pvpers (I’m going to say rank 30+) until they get their rank up (i.e Do pvp the way everyone else had to).

The point of the last patches is to make new players come for the rewards, that would be like giving someone 100 dolars and then hit him in the head with a baseball bat enough so that he needs to spend 80 in medical care.
For good or for bad, they managed to double the spvp playerbase (granted they first lost 80% of the playerbase), true that this playerbase is mostly rabbits looking for carrots and not lions looking for meat, but what other option did they had.
I mean, the game is still a mess (just play 10 games in solo and count the number of eles or count the number of nonplayers in a teamfight clones + minion + pet + spirits, it’s quite funny when u do that and realize that this number doubles the player numbers xD, sometimes i think we could let the teamfight to the pets..).

Baldric.6781:

The point of the last patches is to make new players come for the rewards, that would be like giving someone 100 dolars and then hit him in the head with a baseball bat enough so that he needs to spend 80 in medical care.

Now that is funny.