Guild Wars 2

Here are my last 5 matches. 4 out of 5 were losses. The average point difference in these matches was 339.25. ANET, do you honestly wonder why I have a crumby attitude? Is it mysterious to you that PvP isn’t growing? Do you believe matchmaking is working well and not being heavily exploited?

Admittedly, I’m tired, having played all night and on a class that I’m not particularly good at. Still, this is becoming torture. Good thing I’m a masochist. This is why tournaments have a credibility gap. Last time it was turret engies.. this time it’s stacked teams.

Dude, i don’t want to be an kitten (probably I will ) but every your recent topic/reply is a complain about how people reached diamond/legendary “cheating” (lol), how bad matchmaking is, how bad the world is, how bad this, how bad that etc.

Have you considered the chance you’re just bad at pvp and there is not a conspiracy around you?

I’ll tell you a secret, there are people better than you, so less complain and try to improve yourself instead of crying on everything

Deal with that or simply play something different.

First, I’m not a dude, dude. Second, match manipulation is cheating according to ANET. Queue ing with low tier players is match manipulation since it places the higher level player in a “softer” match than is appropriate.

Yes I have considered that I might be “just bad” at PvP. I have said multiple times that I’m a mediocre player. The frustration has left me in tears more than once.

As to your “secret,” I probably have more hours in game than you do. I’ve made a concerted effort to be better over the past 3 years or so.

When I’m getting hammered to the tune of 339 point losses in 80 PERCENT of my matches, it’s a clear indication of a problem.

I’m reasonably intelligent, a pvp 80.. have at least average game skills and a better than average comp and gaming mouse… cable internet. There’s no reason in a properly set up tournament I should be seeing this kind of pounding.

Yeah it is a cheat(pip manipulation). Yes those people cheating should be banned. Just because you do it and pretend you’re just clever doesn’t make it any less of a cheat.

Forums are the place where people go to discuss problems with the game….. just let the player vent because you have no idea what you’re talking about phhhil.

Phil.8901:

Dude, i don’t want to be an kitten (probably I will ) but every your recent topic/reply is a complain about how people reached diamond/legendary “cheating” (lol), how bad matchmaking is, how bad the world is, how bad this, how bad that etc.

Have you considered the chance you’re just bad at pvp and there is not a conspiracy around you?

I’ll tell you a secret, there are people better than you, so less complain and try to improve yourself instead of crying on everything

Deal with that or simply play something different.

The problem in this case isn’t learn to play (we should all strive doing that better) but rather matchmaking. If the system is designed so you get a 50/50 win/loss ratio give or take then you’d be set with equally skilled players more often. Divisions mixed in with such a system is simply a disaster, needs to move towards a seeding system where the best of a league gets pitted against (not with) the worst of a league until the good players rank out of that league. If it goes on for too long then the best rubies will be diamond so the need for seasons to end is rather obvious to avoid league inflation.

Let’s say a season starts and due to the way MMR works Abjured in amber gets paired against The Civilized Gentlemen also in amber (all are amber at season start). The system sees them as similar MMR and pits them against each other. Wouldn’t it be better for them to crush all the amber through diamonds then finally meet in legendary? I believe a seeding system based off MMR rather than the current system would be ideal next season.

Ooo, is it sharing time? :D

Naturally I only play meta builds, so here’s my last (from bottom up) zerker lockdown chrono, zerker berserker warrior (no defense line, no crappy endure pains XD), a trial condi sbow druid build, and the most recent three ranger wins on a zerker lbow trapper ranger which I used to finish up advancing a tier :D

What do you want me to say Ross? OK, “nice wins.” Now, how is that on topic?

I won’t report your post for implying that I have psych issues. You’re welcome.

Nice evasion. OK so you are countering my claim that matchmaking isn’t working ( based on an 80% loss rate by an average 339 point margin ) by showing an excessive win rate.

So then you agree with me, yes? If you’re winning that often and easily, then matchmaking isn’t working for you either.

HipposWild.7185:

Yeah it is a cheat(pip manipulation). Yes those people cheating should be banned. Just because you do it and pretend you’re just clever doesn’t make it any less of a cheat.

Forums are the place where people go to discuss problems with the game….. just let the player vent because you have no idea what you’re talking about phhhil.

Queying with a lower tier player is not cheating, it might be exploiting, but then again you have to give them the benefit of a doubt since you can’t tell if they are doing it intetnionally or if they just happen to have a friend in a lower tier.

As I see this, it is just that the match system is broken and doesn’t scale correctly when there are players with different tiers and mmr. You can’t really blame players for this, ppl just play what they are given by Anet. And it is not that this is a bug ppl are exploting, Anet just has to fix the scaling.

And when I’m talking about scaling I mean that the system tries to balance teams in mmr and tiers. When there are ppl with different tiers and mmr the system tries to take this into account. Now it seems that if there is a lower tier player in high tier team they get easier opponents so the low tier player wouldn’t have so hard time (has to be casual friendly #Anet). Also, since there are 2 factors the system takes into account (mmr and tier), the system becomes even more complex and difficult to balance (could be wrong on this one). It is a fairly new and complex system so it would be a miracle if it was perfect at this point. (Dunno if any of that made any sense…)

I’m not saying that if someone does something wrong it is ok to do it too, and I’m not encouraging ppl to play the system. I’m just saying that it is too early to judge if you see a lower tier player in ranked he could be having godly mmr but no tier but the system can’t scale that correctly.

Ithilwen.1529:

I won’t report your post for implying that I have psych issues. You’re welcome.

:D

Ithilwen.1529:

Nice evasion. OK so you are countering my claim that matchmaking isn’t working ( based on an 80% loss rate by an average 339 point margin ) by showing an excessive win rate.

shrug. I’m told my winrate in ranked is currently 52.20%. That can be analyzed however you like I guess.

Ithilwen.1529:

So then you agree with me, yes? If you’re winning that often and easily, then matchmaking isn’t working for you either.

For Christmas my wife got me a PS4. Been with her a very long time. A definite win. Personally I’m pretty content with my matchmaking even though I know there’s a lot of bad matchups happening out there each and every day, and when those occur things don’t work out :(

How about we duo queue. You play whatever, I’ll bring my carrion p/p daredevil, and we’ll see how things go?

Ithilwen.1529:

on a class that I’m not particularly good at.

I believe this, right here, is the issue.

Nothing to see here, boys. The OP already knows what they did wrong.

Ithilwen.1529:

First, I’m not a dude, dude. Second, match manipulation is cheating according to ANET. Queue ing with low tier players is match manipulation since it places the higher level player in a “softer” match than is appropriate.

No it doesn’t, or at least thats not how its supposed to work. Matchmaking is supposed to allocate teams so each has a 50% chance of winning.

morrolan.9608:

Ithilwen.1529:

First, I’m not a dude, dude. Second, match manipulation is cheating according to ANET. Queue ing with low tier players is match manipulation since it places the higher level player in a “softer” match than is appropriate.

No it doesn’t, or at least thats not how its supposed to work. Matchmaking is supposed to allocate teams so each has a 50% chance of winning.

Yes but relative to who? XD

morrolan.9608:

Ithilwen.1529:

First, I’m not a dude, dude. Second, match manipulation is cheating according to ANET. Queue ing with low tier players is match manipulation since it places the higher level player in a “softer” match than is appropriate.

No it doesn’t, or at least thats not how its supposed to work. Matchmaking is supposed to allocate teams so each has a 50% chance of winning.

Except it doesn’t. Matchmaking is looking at players w/l ratio. If player has above 50% w/lo ratio it will put them on team that are garanteed to lose. The amount of absolutely lopsided matches compared to even just proves it (as well as match history). Matchmaking almost NEVER tries to create teams that both have 50% win chance.

Cynz.9437:

morrolan.9608:

Ithilwen.1529:

First, I’m not a dude, dude. Second, match manipulation is cheating according to ANET. Queue ing with low tier players is match manipulation since it places the higher level player in a “softer” match than is appropriate.

No it doesn’t, or at least thats not how its supposed to work. Matchmaking is supposed to allocate teams so each has a 50% chance of winning.

Except it doesn’t. Matchmaking is looking at players w/l ratio. If player has above 50% w/lo ratio it will put them on team that are garanteed to lose. The amount of absolutely lopsided matches compared to even just proves it (as well as match history). Matchmaking almost NEVER tries to create teams that both have 50% win chance.

Pretty sure thats not how its supposed to work, its trying to allocate players so that each team in any match has a 50% chance of winning. If its not working then thats an issue with the algorithm.

morrolan.9608:

Cynz.9437:

morrolan.9608:

Ithilwen.1529:

First, I’m not a dude, dude. Second, match manipulation is cheating according to ANET. Queue ing with low tier players is match manipulation since it places the higher level player in a “softer” match than is appropriate.

No it doesn’t, or at least thats not how its supposed to work. Matchmaking is supposed to allocate teams so each has a 50% chance of winning.

Except it doesn’t. Matchmaking is looking at players w/l ratio. If player has above 50% w/lo ratio it will put them on team that are garanteed to lose. The amount of absolutely lopsided matches compared to even just proves it (as well as match history). Matchmaking almost NEVER tries to create teams that both have 50% win chance.

Pretty sure thats not how its supposed to work, its trying to allocate players so that each team in any match has a 50% chance of winning. If its not working then thats an issue with the algorithm.

If that were the case, there would be no games with 2 and 3 pip wins, or 1 pip losses. Matchmaking actively gives you 0-20% chance of winning (3 pip win) or 20-40% chance of winning (2 pip win), and it’s not infrequent. A huge issue with this that their algorithm for estimating the victory probability must be absolute junk code, because I’ve been on the winning and losing side of 1-sided games where the winner got 3 pips, with an end score of 500-100. With a <20% chance of victory.

I was at 29/30 pips on Ruby today. Fell down to 24 due to both utter kittens and stacked tryhard teams against solo/duo players. Good game.

It is kinda sad, that when you see top names in the opposite team, they most likely run with 1-2 “low ranks” that in reality are close to their level of competence.

I’d show my screenshot of my match history showing 9-1, but I don’t know how to post a picture

Cynz.9437:

morrolan.9608:

Ithilwen.1529:

First, I’m not a dude, dude. Second, match manipulation is cheating according to ANET. Queue ing with low tier players is match manipulation since it places the higher level player in a “softer” match than is appropriate.

No it doesn’t, or at least thats not how its supposed to work. Matchmaking is supposed to allocate teams so each has a 50% chance of winning.

Except it doesn’t. Matchmaking is looking at players w/l ratio. If player has above 50% w/lo ratio it will put them on team that are garanteed to lose. The amount of absolutely lopsided matches compared to even just proves it (as well as match history). Matchmaking almost NEVER tries to create teams that both have 50% win chance.

If it doesn’t gauge by elo/MMR, how would the system know how to stack the teams like this?

Salamander.2504:

morrolan.9608:

Cynz.9437:

morrolan.9608:

Ithilwen.1529:

First, I’m not a dude, dude. Second, match manipulation is cheating according to ANET. Queue ing with low tier players is match manipulation since it places the higher level player in a “softer” match than is appropriate.

No it doesn’t, or at least thats not how its supposed to work. Matchmaking is supposed to allocate teams so each has a 50% chance of winning.

Except it doesn’t. Matchmaking is looking at players w/l ratio. If player has above 50% w/lo ratio it will put them on team that are garanteed to lose. The amount of absolutely lopsided matches compared to even just proves it (as well as match history). Matchmaking almost NEVER tries to create teams that both have 50% win chance.

Pretty sure thats not how its supposed to work, its trying to allocate players so that each team in any match has a 50% chance of winning. If its not working then thats an issue with the algorithm.

If that were the case, there would be no games with 2 and 3 pip wins, or 1 pip losses. Matchmaking actively gives you 0-20% chance of winning (3 pip win) or 20-40% chance of winning (2 pip win), and it’s not infrequent. A huge issue with this that their algorithm for estimating the victory probability must be absolute junk code, because I’ve been on the winning and losing side of 1-sided games where the winner got 3 pips, with an end score of 500-100. With a <20% chance of victory.

That doesn’t make it junk code.
They had a ≈20% chance to win.

The reason for the % chance there, is that it’s possible each and every one on that 20% team, are playing notably better than their average.
This could be due to them roaming in WvW and getting better at their class. Doing practice duels in their guild arena.

Any number of things.

The system can’t magically account for that.

I do, however, agree with everyone that the system does seem to really like stacking teams.
And that’s not even just the ranked match up, with its 2 MMRs to account for.

In unranked alone I’ll sometimes end up against ESL players, with a teammate that literally does not know how to play their class at all.
And that’s not me “blaming them”.

No no, they literally played DH, and sat there and auto attacked people. Didn’t see them use a single utility or otherwise.
No res, no stomp. Just auto attack and death.

PvE heros, amirite?

I think we can all agree that consistent matchups where one team wins by a landslide are no fun. When I win by 300+ points, it feels like I was just playing Hotjoin. I’m grateful for the easy win, but I know it wasn’t challenging at all and probably not deserving of a pip. When I lose by 300+ points, I can’t help but feel like, “Why was this match ever set up in the first place?”

A system that makes every effort to keep your winrate as close to 50% as possible is a failure. This process will deliberately throw you in a hopeless match just to bring you back down. This just results in poor morale and frustration.

The system should strive to place you in a match where you have a 50/50 chance of winning. Matches in which you win/lose by 150 points or less are normally pretty fun and exciting. Even when I lose those, i can normally see what went wrong and improve.

Lastly, you can’t really blame a player’s skill level for losing a match by 300+ points. When that happens, it is obvious that the player should have been matched against such a team, and should instead be matched against other lower skill players, resulting in a more even score.

I understand the occasional outlier match that winds up being a landslide victory/defeat, it’s gonna happen. But the point being made in this thread is that it is happening way too frequently.

Phil.8901:

Dude, i don’t want to be an kitten (probably I will ) but every your recent topic/reply is a complain about how people reached diamond/legendary “cheating” (lol), how bad matchmaking is, how bad the world is, how bad this, how bad that etc.

Have you considered the chance you’re just bad at pvp and there is not a conspiracy around you?

I’ll tell you a secret, there are people better than you, so less complain and try to improve yourself instead of crying on everything

Deal with that or simply play something different.

If he is a bad player as you state (I don’t know him so I have no idea if he is good or bad), it proves the MMR system is broken anyway. Why the system keep putting him against “better players” rather than setting more even matches? It only proves the system is broken.

Coelho Nat.4697:

Phil.8901:

Dude, i don’t want to be an kitten (probably I will ) but every your recent topic/reply is a complain about how people reached diamond/legendary “cheating” (lol), how bad matchmaking is, how bad the world is, how bad this, how bad that etc.

Have you considered the chance you’re just bad at pvp and there is not a conspiracy around you?

I’ll tell you a secret, there are people better than you, so less complain and try to improve yourself instead of crying on everything

Deal with that or simply play something different.

If he is a bad player as you state (I don’t know him so I have no idea if he is good or bad), it proves the MMR system is broken anyway. Why the system keep putting him against “better players” rather than setting more even matches? It only proves the system is broken.

Precisely.

Best advice I can give to get over a losing streak, find a decent partner to queue with in map chat. If you’re a lower division, many higher division players will be more than willing to queue with you. I just duo/triple queued a few matches, and had some of the best match-ups I’ve had all week. Like, matches ending within 50 points of each other.

Haha ravaging, better fix your player mentality ArenaNet. #solomid

Apart from the occasional complete blowout game (I lost 500-0 yesterday and everyone on my team was playing the whole way through and we were against 5 solo players, lol!) I have seen more games since the league started where the loser has got between 400 and 499 points than before and I very rarely see a team get less than 200 points. I think I have had a lot of very fun and exciting games (going down to a boss kill in Niflhel, a Lord kill literally half a second before the other team reaches 500 points in foefire or just a game decided by a few points). Unfortunately it has seemed most of those games go against me but when I win those ones it feels brilliant. I have accepted that I will never make it out of diamond league based on the last few days of play so now I can just enjoy pvp rather than grind out leagues by playing 25 games every day.

Ithil I’m Sry your on the opposite side of my 80% win ratio… but it’s ok… just get with a guild group if your not strong enough to solo. Or have anet reset your mmr.