Guild Wars 2

I’ve been as high as 200 or so. But it easily dropped. I never Q’d with anyone I knew.

But if the matcher has mostly mid to low rated people, THEY should get the matches and never be fed to high MMR. What’s the point of that? We’ve been seeing it all day and it isn’t pretty. It lowers the player base.

Laserbolt.6731:

I’ve been as high as 200 or so. But it easily dropped. I never Q’d with anyone I knew.

But if the matcher has mostly mid to low rated people, THEY should get the matches and never be fed to high MMR. What’s the point of that? We’ve been seeing it all day and it isn’t pretty. It lowers the player base.

Hence why the system needs to wait longer before assigning those people to play a top team. This way those people are less likely to get stomped. You can never make it never happen unless you just never give some people queue pops, which isn’t technically possible I would imagine. Things running forever and searching forever bigger pools for a match can’t be a good thing I would guess. And you can’t have people just never get pops. It isnt fair. So its a balance.

Having people that are high skilled wait a very long time is about as bad as feeding 100s of average and new players as cannon fodder to the veterans. I think 20-25 minutes is about as often as I would feed them an unchallenging blowout that demoralizes the folks who are learning and never had a chance.

Every 20-25 minutes is long enough to let the average player have some fun before the demoralizing stomp. It reduces the stomping and keeps the majority happy.

Laserbolt.6731:

Having people that are high skilled wait a very long time is about as bad as feeding 100s of average and new players as cannon fodder. I think 20-25 minutes is about as often as I would feed them an unchallenging blowout that demoralizes the folks who are learning and never had a chance.

Every 20-25 minutes is long enough to let the average player have some fun before the demoralizing stomp. It reduces the stomping and keeps the majority happy.

20 minutes is too long. It might as well be 20 hours to be honest. If I had to wait 20 minutes for a match I would give up I think.

Well, what good is a 500-0 game that is absolutely effortless, and turns off 5 other players maybe for good, just to shorten the wait?

Sometimes there is just nobody at your level to play with, as I see it.

0 improvements so far for me in unranked queue. I maybe have 60+ games since patch, and won 65-70% ish of them on my main (my stats keep getting deleted).

I just had by far had my worst game of my entire GW2 career.

Ele + mesmer double cap home at start. They continue to double cap all game.

Thief was afk for 30+ seconds. Goes to enemy lord, doesn’t do anything. Wastes a minute there. Breaks the other door. Spend another good 1 minute in there doing something….

All game my team, and theirs were double capping. My team let the enemy run right past them to go cap.

We barely won because I 1v2 a Necro + Thief on far.

It’s like a freaking hotjoin. How many games do I have to win before I get the same quality opponents as I did in soloQ (I never thought I’d say that.)

You know, putting people up against much more skilled players is NO DIFFERENT than a gear-based MMO when you are up against people with better gear.

It feels exactly the same when you get “spawn camped” from higher skill and knowledge players as it does from higher geared players with stronger weapons.

And since GW2 prides itself on not being gear-based…it should never be done.

I would be perfectly willing to wait 5-10 minutes for a pop just to know that it will be an even match. The current system puts a bit too much priority on maximizing short queue times, and match quality suffers as a consequence.

I understand that there might not be anyone close to our skill level on at a time.. however I do believe that there has to be 1 or 2 and probably more teams that can at least put a few points on the board. I wouldnt mind a 5minute q for that. After all, the 30s queue + 5mins to get to 500-0 the other team is just as enjoyable as killing golems in hotm.

My experience as a pure soloer last couple of days in unranked. Not enjoyable. But I did it to test. Can’t take it much longer though.

Not sure I understand this, does this mean professions are not included in MMR now? It’s not reduced if you play a class that you have not played before? How is this a good change?

What about to have more than one queue and apply Matchmaking on each queue?

Ratinig 1 – 2000 go to queue 1
Rating 2001 – 3500 go to queue 2
Rating 3501 – 5000 go to queue 3

So the majority people at queue 1 dont need to wait long and are garanted not facing queue 3

OR we could have pool of people

501 – 1000 pre-queue1
1001 – 1500 pre-queue2
1501 – 2000 pre-queue3
2001 – 2500 pre-queue4
2501 – 3000 pre-queue5
3001 – 3500 pre-queue6
3501 – 4000 pre-queue7
4001 – 4500 pre-queue8
4501 – 5000 pre-queue9
matchmaking1 looks at pre-queue1 pre-queue2 pre-queue3 pre-queue4
matchmaking2 looks at pre-queue3 pre-queue4 pre-queue5 pre-queue6
matchmaking3 looks at pre-queue5 pre-queue6 pre-queue7 pre-queue8
matchmaking4 looks at pre-queue7 pre-queue8 pre-queue9

Maybe we should consider a solo/team split again in ranked? And even unranked? I wouldn’t allow solo’s in teamq however.

However, I’m afraid that’ll just lengthen the queue’s too much as we still have the population issues.

Justin ODell.9517:

<cut>

A bit of OT:

I really appreciate the effort you are making to solve issues about matchmaking and the way you keep updating\speaking with community.

I’m pretty sure with a bit of patience (for us) and a couple of weeks, you gonna solve them.

It’s the best job\communication i’ve seen in this game so far and i’m usually the kind of player complaining about weather, governement and devs

Yeah, even tough I’m not participating in this solving process yet (not playing much atm), I really much appreciate the way Justin handles all this and also the fact that most people realize its best to argue factually and not blow off steam unnecessarily.
Thx Justin. Thx Community.

Lordrosicky.5813:

uberkingkong.8041:

You see those people winning games, they are people who party with others in PvP. People just need to get out of that solo que all day mindset. Those who party will see more success.

This is good, because this game could use a lot more people playing cooperatively rather than I solo everything. Partying up means you might make a friend, and playing with friends makes games more fun. Playing with guildies you like make games fun. Things that are more social see more success. Look at facebook vs myspace. Myspace was like a solo site, you make your page look good and that’s about it. Facebook, you post status, everybody sees it and object is to keep commenting and liking other people, rather than Myspace where focus is just keep trying to make yourself look good. Facebook you make friends and you talk to them. Myspace you just try and make your friends list look as big as possible, to make yourself look good.

Dude you are chatting kitten. It has nothing to do with being in groups. I have duo queued and solo queued and its is the same. Farming total idiots. Anyone who has put enough time into this game to be good will be finding it the same. The issue is 100% just that the matchmaking is terrible for highly skilled players. Nothing to do with how they queue (group or solo or full team). They need to make it so that the system takes longer to find matches and only pops like it did before. I could team queue (on the rare occasion I did) with certainty on the old system that I would have competitive games. Now I know I won’t have any.

I was duo and trio queue btw. I didn’t try. Was half asleep. Let them cap points over and over. Messed around. And still won by miles. Not sure I died. And all this in 1 minute queues? The system has to try harder to find me a fun game imo.

Totally agree with henry, as i said in another post problem is not going solo, duoq or full team problem is that atm pvp is flooded by pve heroes (Probably going for rewards, silvers whatever…only god knows..) and matchmaking is just throwing those ppl in with no clue at all (That’s why i don’t go with less than 2 mates, in trioq you can still try to carry them somehow..classic “Go close, cap, stay there and don’t touch anything”) ….not sure if it’s actually because there are so few good players around those days that it’s almost impossible to gather them all together into reasonable matches or just totally broken matchmaking…but one thing is clear: This is NOT working (Well more likely never worked properly but now it’s totally fubar) …if this is what we have to pay in order to get shorter que times well…i’d rather wait…only had really few good enjoyable matches since patch got out…and i mean like 5-6 (One vs henry too) everything else it’s just random farming and it may be fun for the first few runs but after 10 runs it really starts getting kinda boring and stupid…let alone having to play this thing for another 10 days..

Roger.1790:

What about to have more than one queue and apply Matchmaking on each queue?

Ratinig 1 – 2000 go to queue 1
Rating 2001 – 3500 go to queue 2
Rating 3501 – 5000 go to queue 3

So the majority people at queue 1 dont need to wait long and are garanted not facing queue 3

That’s a task it’s really worth thinking off.

You see different groups of people complaining. First – the top players. Second – the perma stomped players.

The solution is to save them from each other. Leagues or quees may be a good idea.

GW2 is good promoted right now. There are a lot of new players. Also the complete solo q players are sometimes joined against old team q players. Guys, I don’t understand especially the better players not realising that there has always been a huge pool of “bad” players. These are the players who don’t take it too serious. That’s ok and they should not face 500 : 0 defeats. The skill difference can be so huge an influence the outcome of a game so much.

So what kind of data is there to start a selection in groups?

The old top 1000 list.
The old mmr.
Rank
Games played
Loose / win ratio
maybe more

Suggestion:
Put everyone who played more than maybe 200 games and has been in Top 1000 once in category 1 player group.
Put everyone who is level 80, reached MMR better 90 % in category 2
Maybe a 3rd category like under 200 games but above 70 %.
4th category – all beginners

Does that make sense?

Last night seems slightly better but not entirely. Decided to YoloQ to see any changes and the first 3 matches I got stuck with new players and we got rocked. Next 10 matches were almost all blowouts besides 1 close match. One of these matches I walked in to our home point looking at 3 enemy players standing there (Theif, Ranger & Engi). I attacked and in under 15 seconds had em all downed and then spiked em all. Pretty sure that wouldn’t have happened with people “in my bracket”. They were awed at how awesome I was…lol? I should not be able to take down 3v1 in under 15 seconds (not to veteran players anyway). It seems to have got slightly better but I just feel it is still mashing randoms together really fast and ignore how long these people have played for. There is a TON of new people trying pvp due to this update and they are definitely getting scared off.

I’m finding the new system really confusing and its not clear to me how I’m being paired. I’m winning almost every match by miles.

Where can I even see my rating or profession rating?

Lopez.7369:

You can’t, which is another problem. This is the first game I’ve played in which the developers have been so secretive about what actual MMR and personal rating are — which indicates to me that they’re trying to hide something.

Yeah, the MMR lol

I am having close games in duo queue but the skill discrepency is just way too much.

I am playing with newbie players. That is the main and pretty much only issue I have had with matchmaking. I should never be in a game with random pve dudes. It should never ever happen.

The matchmaking needs to make close games. But it also needs to make the players in the game of similar skill level.

I feel like it is me and 4 60% ranked people. And I am vs 5 80% ranked people. My team dies everywhere and I have to carry hard to win just by a few points. But it isn’t satisfying gameplay as I am just rolling them and they are rolling my team mates. Result = not that good.

Unranked queue: 49 matches, 49 wins.

Most are blowouts so ridiculous, that we rush lord in the beginning, do svanirs, double cap for points and win 2v3 or better.

As my buddy put it, we can do whatever we want on the map and no matter what happens we win easily as soon as we decide to.

the other major problem is with the influx of new players picking spirit watch, skyham and courtyard. they just don’t understand these game modes well, which usually results in them getting farmed. very frustrating.

Imho veteran/good players should have longer queue. In general, the system should think twice before to put good players with 3/4 noobs.

It would take less approximation to put good player with noob players, bacuse the average result is a bad match. Good players can carry very hardly 3-4 noobs, and if they can, the match results always a pain in the kitten , a very sufferance.

I dunno if the system use a simple average between players to get the final value for the matchmaking but i think veteran players (or noob players, depends how you can handle this) need a different “weight”.

New matchmaking system #1 awesome great fantastic wahoo. I played 7 ranked matches today for the first time in like 4 months. They all started within 1-3 min, and were all incredibly competitive except for one where a player on the other team went afk mid-match.

Justin ODell.9517:

Also interesting… Legancy of the Foefire, Forest of Niflhel, and Battle of Kyhlo have the lowest SD between teams.

Dat meta knowledge doh

Justin ODell.9517:

Just looking over the data for the last day. With the exception of Courtyard, which seems to get a lot of blowouts, increasing min potentials seems to have a caused decrease in end-game scores between teams. I think that’s a pretty safe metric to gauge the competitiveness of a match, does anyone have any thoughts on that?

I upped it by another 25, but I don’t feel it’s safe to go any further until we get something in to automatically drop it back down during off-peak hours.

The thing is end game scores aren’t the only thing which matters. It needs to pair solo players/duo/trio players with and against others at their skill level.

Justin ODell.9517:

Just looking over the data for the last day. With the exception of Courtyard, which seems to get a lot of blowouts, increasing min potentials seems to have a caused decrease in end-game scores between teams. I think that’s a pretty safe metric to gauge the competitiveness of a match, does anyone have any thoughts on that?

I upped it by another 25, but I don’t feel it’s safe to go any further until we get something in to automatically drop it back down during off-peak hours.

Matching similar rating and roster size are more important.

There is too much difference in skill in the same party and like we said in another topic, there are some roster size that never has to be matched against each other.

Final end score is important but match close doesn’t always mean good match.

I really appreciate you are tweaking numbers basically every day, i suggest you to give to rating and rostersize really high priority .

I really think quality match >> fast queue, of course no one wants to wait 10-20 min for a match, but better to wait some minutes for a good match instead of few seconds for a bad match.

Justin ODell.9517:

Also interesting… Legancy of the Foefire, Forest of Niflhel, and Battle of Kyhlo have the lowest SD between teams.

This lends itself well to the theory of how to have a good game. If one of those maps or temple comes up, play the match. If skyhammer, spirt, or courtyard come up, alt-f4 and play on a different account for awhile.

Justin,

Has it been decided that after X minutes a very low-MMR-average teams will simply be put into a match with a very high MMR team if that’s the only set of 10 players available?

If so, is that better than no match at all? Or is it actually worse, since players just stop playing. Or they AFK until the match is over. So what has really been accomplished?

People who cannot get an arena can still do Practice. They can join a custom arena. They can duel.

So I decide to break my own rule and try a skyhammer map. I realized that I was …. right! horrible map for game play.

What made it worse is that it was a group of pugs vs a premade. I thought the new system prevented that?

Come on. Fix the matchmaking or give us the old system. At least most of my matches were even there.

Lordrosicky.5813:

I am having close games in duo queue but the skill discrepency is just way too much.

I am playing with newbie players. That is the main and pretty much only issue I have had with matchmaking. I should never be in a game with random pve dudes. It should never ever happen.

The matchmaking needs to make close games. But it also needs to make the players in the game of similar skill level.

I feel like it is me and 4 60% ranked people. And I am vs 5 80% ranked people. My team dies everywhere and I have to carry hard to win just by a few points. But it isn’t satisfying gameplay as I am just rolling them and they are rolling my team mates. Result = not that good.

Whoa now, you got 4 people at 60% on leaderboards and 80% on leaderboards? That’s really low, you have to be extremely bad to get that low, like a 30% chance win rate or lower.

You have to also realize that theres not many people who are considered ‘good’ that can put up ‘good fights’.

You ever play a FPS game? Where its pretty much 1 guy dominating? Sometimes its like 3 or 4 guys dominating out of like 16+ players? The other people not dominating are like all closely together score wise but nowhere near the top. Its how competitive games work, some people are just too good. Rarely you’ll get a game where its nothing but good players.

Like lets look at NA. Say you got that team that won, abjured.
The only people worthy facing them probably Iuck, Davinci, Darth Vanquisher, Hman, and Zoose. Matter of fact, I bet that team right there would won abjured. Theres other good players out there, but for now, that’s my team that I think would put up good fights against abjured. And ya know what, chances of those guys playing together aint good, course they going to be complaining about matchmaking not working and playing against those ‘60% 80%’ers, because that all that’s leftover and available.

Also you have to realize, that most of those good players, play together.
How you going to get the matches you want if yall playing together?

You know how you talk about you duo queing? Well if ya didn’t duo que with your buddy who is most likely just as good as you, you’d be playing against him instead, but since you duo qued with him, you stuck with all the other people who are queing at that time. You keep checking your friendslist, keep queing with all those good players, stay partied, guess what theres no other good players to go against you unless they all magically login at same time and your partied up and now theres other good players online which means your going to have good matches now.

All has to do with whose online. And if you play with the other good players to eliminate tough matches which leads to good w/l ratio. if you party up with the good players which means you don’t face the good players, you will look much better on the leaderboard than having all those tough matches because you have to face them rather than being with them against all those newbies out there.

uberkingkong.8041:

Lordrosicky.5813:

I am having close games in duo queue but the skill discrepency is just way too much.

I am playing with newbie players. That is the main and pretty much only issue I have had with matchmaking. I should never be in a game with random pve dudes. It should never ever happen.

The matchmaking needs to make close games. But it also needs to make the players in the game of similar skill level.

I feel like it is me and 4 60% ranked people. And I am vs 5 80% ranked people. My team dies everywhere and I have to carry hard to win just by a few points. But it isn’t satisfying gameplay as I am just rolling them and they are rolling my team mates. Result = not that good.

Whoa now, you got 4 people at 60% on leaderboards and 80% on leaderboards? That’s really low, you have to be extremely bad to get that low, like a 30% chance win rate or lower.

You have to also realize that theres not many people who are considered ‘good’ that can put up ‘good fights’.

You ever play a FPS game? Where its pretty much 1 guy dominating? Sometimes its like 3 or 4 guys dominating out of like 16+ players? The other people not dominating are like all closely together score wise but nowhere near the top. Its how competitive games work, some people are just too good. Rarely you’ll get a game where its nothing but good players.

Like lets look at NA. Say you got that team that won, abjured.
The only people worthy facing them probably Iuck, Davinci, Darth Vanquisher, Hman, and Zoose. Matter of fact, I bet that team right there would won abjured. Theres other good players out there, but for now, that’s my team that I think would put up good fights against abjured.

Also you have to realize, that most of those good players, play together.
How you going to get the matches you want if yall playing together?

You know how you talk about you duo queing? Well if ya didn’t duo que with your buddy who is most likely just as good as you, you’d be playing against him instead, but since you duo qued with him, you stuck with all the other people who are queing at that time. You keep checking your friendslist, keep queing with all those good players, stay partied, guess what theres no other good players to go against you unless they all magically login at same time and your partied up and now theres other good players online which means your going to have good matches now.

All has to do with whose online. And if you play with the other good players to eliminate tough matches which leads to bad w/l ratio. if you party up with the good players which means you don’t face the good players, you will look much better on the leaderboard than having all those tough matches because you have to face them rather than being with them against all those newbies out there.

Whoa. You need a tldr in your posts.

I’m noticing a lot of blowout matches, not necessarily courtyard.
These are my last 7 games or so. Wins by 250+.

Also, I didn’t exclude any matches, 7 straight blowouts.

Justin ODell.9517:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Lopez.7369:

The point is you would probably be waiting forever on some nights since the game’s population is so tiny. You might be okay with that, but a lot of people aren’t.

Yeh you would literally wait from about midnight till 2 pm. 14 hours queue time anyone? :P

EU has a much strong drop off in off-peak hours. It’s like they all go to bed at the same time or something.

EU ppl work or go to school lol

jokes aside, i think it has something to do with the fact that EU doesn’t have own “oceanic” playerbase like NA does

as far as matches go, if i queue alone, they are usually very lopsided; if i queue with 1 friend it is 50/50

uberkingkong.8041:

I’m noticing a lot of blowout matches, not necessarily courtyard.
These are my last 7 games or so. Wins by 250+.

Also, I didn’t exclude any matches, 7 straight blowouts.

Those are not blowouts, ill start posting

so… i’m being paired with some fairly newbie players. like, all the time. now i’m not a huge PvPer, but i know the game and i can hold my own (my teamQ rating was something between high 90%s and 800 during my active phases, which usually only lasted a week or two each). i’ve had a guy play his first match with my team, i’ve had teams that just zerg home point (quad cap meta) and keep dying to the other team who all pushed far (penta far push meta), and i’ve had matches where i could 3v1 and win. i’m a D/P thief player, and definitely not one to 3v1 people and end up with all 3 of them dead on the ground. so what gives? is it the whole “profession rating trying to get close to account rating” thing?

side note, sometimes i’m still getting the HS + steal port bug… and it’ll put me on revealed too because somehow the steal triggers after the leap finisher applies.

Can someone tell me what’s going on, why am I facing so many bad players? Will this only occur at the start because of the mmr but after things will settle as we play more?

10 minute q’s repeatedly still all matches were like 500-100 at best

Ah, here are screenhots of our matches tonight, as you can see THESE are blow outs, I left none out.

Oh and we were waiting in 9min + queues

THe only change i can see is the time to wait a match is much very much longer, now i wait 3min instead of 30 sec.

IT FEELS WRONG THIS CHANGE

You’re quite lucky on waiting times if it’s only 3mn. Right now i did wait for 30mn, no match came. I tried again, still waiting for 15mn. Not the good hour, but there are many people in heart of the mists, and i didn’t have issues before at this hour..

Do not make MM changes based on courtyard. It’s even more prone to blowouts/snowballing than conquestmaps.

IT FEELS WRONG, REVERSE THE CHANGE, STOP BREAKIN THE GAME PLEASE

Booms.2594:

10 minute q’s repeatedly still all matches were like 500-100 at best

That means mostly low-level players are available. And that the system is really trying to find some other high level teams for you toplay against, but they may have stopped playing at the moment.

That’s my take.

Booms.2594:

10 minute q’s repeatedly still all matches were like 500-100 at best

As an “average” player I’ve been having great games now that the matcher stopped putting us with top teams so quickly.

Firebird.8324:

Ah, here are screenhots of our matches tonight, as you can see THESE are blow outs, I left none out.

Oh and we were waiting in 9min + queues

Oh wow, yup those are defiantly blowouts, that first one you showed too, actually had some good players on it too, Raplion and Cruuk.

Basically what I got from your information is that matchmaking doesn’t work, unless they recently changed something, https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Better-Matching-Today-for-Avg-player/first#post4610315

Also, that you go in as a premade and you faced, I believe all of them were solo que’ers. Also, believe that you are really up in the MMR and there wasn’t even another premade or even anybody worth mentioning besides those 2 I mentioned.

I think what was happening and has happened before is that the system only calculates who is registering currently.

The system needs to calculate other teams playing at the moment, and wait for those teams to finish up there match and give it some time like 1-3 mins to see if that team that finished the match if they will que again and put those teams together.

The system currently feels like you que, it wants to get you into a match super fast, nothing but bad matchups currently, sets you up with bad matchup. A team that had potential to face the other team dominating finishes there game 5 mins later. The team that is dominating is still in there game, system only registers the dominating team and the randoms queing, sets up that team against bunch randoms, the other dominating team finishes, so on and so forth.

System needs to see who all is active, even those currently in the game. And predict that the people even in the game will que again and thus wait for them to finish for best possible matchup. If theres nobody even those in games worth fighting the dominating team, than just do your normal as fast as possible que because there isn’t nobody available worth fighting anyways.

As for my matches, they are blowouts, they weren’t overkill like your matches. My matches could’ve been legit too, but the matchmaking system didn’t put the people in the right teams to even it out for a close game. Your matches you clearly are better than those players and your quad que, it cant find people that’s good enough to face your a good quad que. You beat some good players Cruuk and Raplion, just goes to show how much of an impact having TS/Mumble/Ventrillo has on the game. Surprised this game doesn’t offer a free voice chat to communicate with your teammates and how you have to rely on those voice chats mentioned.

My matches, they weren’t to the point that the other team overkilled us that we had people ragequit. My matches we weren’t the best team it was a blowout all right, but we didn’t get completely overkilled where somebody gets super frustrated and leaves.
Like your matches, its like somebody seeing top players all on one team, no point in playing a stupid match like that.

Like I said before, if you guys didn’t party together, you’d have more good matches. But since all the good players play together, you don’t have any good matches, or hardly any good matches. I wouldn’t be surprised if they timed when they played to avoid playing against each other. All I see is a bunch of good players together killing newbs and wanting some publicity. Start queing when the other good players are queing. If you really do care about not winning but fair matches over not winning, than don’t make a full party, go kittening solo and face each other rather than playing with each other.