Guild Wars 2

Please anet fix this matchmaking and split queues.

lol.

Happens to all of us buddy. You’ll get a fix “when it is ready”. I had one earlier today that I wanted to screenie, but I’m too lazy. I had 2 rank 1 players on my team, 2 in their teens and we got matched with a 40+ premade.

Yes match making is really really good, the example from the OP doesn’t show nearly how good it is, so I will contribute with a screenshot of my own.

At this point I guess anet doesn’t care. The top priority for them is custom arenas, so they could earn money from pvp players. Split queues doesn’t get them money, so no need to rush it.

Vamp Rook.7835:

Please anet fix this matchmaking and split queues.

I have seen way worse. At least you got 41 points lol.

Jeskelech.4152:

Yes match making is really really good, the example from the OP doesn’t show nearly how good it is, so I will contribute with a screenshot of my own.

lmao in the screenshot where the guy on the loser team says “good game”

learn how the leaderboards work and after that come and speak
coz reading your message a guess that none of you knows anything about pvp and matchmaking…

You should be glad it wasn’t 5v4, or a bunch of rank 40s with crappy builds on your team causing losses and demolishing your rank.

I like how the OP blames his teammates as the player with the lowest score in the game, with a whole one capture and 0’s across the board.

Seriously? When will people realize that rank is completely insignificant and has nothing to do with matchmaking? Since when does ones motivation to grind hotjoins become indicative of ones skill level? Are people just really THAT ignorant to how glicko/ELO ranking works?

Lulz @ our rank? Lulz @ your contribution.

Celeras.4980:

I like how the OP blames his teammates as the player with the lowest score in the game, with a whole one capture and 0’s across the board.

Seriously? When will people realize that rank is completely insignificant and has nothing to do with matchmaking? Since when does ones motivation to grind hotjoins become indicative of ones skill level? Are people just really THAT ignorant to how glicko/ELO ranking works?

Lulz @ our rank? Lulz @ your contribution.

Rank could equal the amount of time played in PvP. Being at a high rank is good because people will look at you and think “oh hey, he must have spent a lot of time in PvP so he probably knows how to play well”. Although, that’s not always true. But I understand where you’re coming from, it shouldn’t dictate your skill level at all.

Pugs vs Premade can never work. Its boring for both sides, no real competition.
We need separated queues, top priority since the very first day.

Celeras.4980:

I like how the OP blames his teammates as the player with the lowest score in the game, with a whole one capture and 0’s across the board.

Seriously? When will people realize that rank is completely insignificant and has nothing to do with matchmaking? Since when does ones motivation to grind hotjoins become indicative of ones skill level? Are people just really THAT ignorant to how glicko/ELO ranking works?

Lulz @ our rank? Lulz @ your contribution.

where did he blame his team? he is blaming anet for putting a group of lower skilled players vs a skilled premade. in proper matchmaking scores like that should not happen.

^Is that un-intentional?

XGhoul.7426:

Funniest game I had today was having a “some-what premade” vs 2 ANet devs where literally a rank 16 warrior was glory whoring the entire match (my team) and anet abusing (if not the DEVS using the un-intentional teleporting stomp)
For those unaware the of the “tele” stomp it is:
When you down a mesmer at the last moment and you hope he is in the “stomp” range to do a 1-stomp
OR:
When you are going to stomp a theif and when he teleports away, you use a utility skill to teleport to them in the stomp animation to down 1 person with 1 stomp animation.

I won’t defend this, but the “GM’s” [Anet Tag] are alright with doing tele-1-stomps so I guess I don’t want to get banned?"

I dunno, always tought it was intentional. Adds something to the skill-layer. :p

butch.8136:

^Is that un-intentional?

Well so far all professions have to use their downed state utility to somewhat mitigate them from dying, every profession (excluding ele for obvious reasons) can knock someone down or push them off using the downed state #2 skill but mesmers or theif you can easily cheese without suffering these consequences, just down mes at the last moments or watch theifs and how they teleport [this is does change when theifs or mes use it at the last possible* second]

Celeras.4980:

I like how the OP blames his teammates as the player with the lowest score in the game, with a whole one capture and 0’s across the board.

Seriously? When will people realize that rank is completely insignificant and has nothing to do with matchmaking? Since when does ones motivation to grind hotjoins become indicative of ones skill level? Are people just really THAT ignorant to how glicko/ELO ranking works?

Lulz @ our rank? Lulz @ your contribution.

Of course stuff like in your screenshot also happens. I also had matches against teams with higher glory rank that my team won. But in a lot of cases the higher glory rank means they are more experienced. Especially if the team with lower rank has players with <10 glory rank. Much rarer to be a super pro with only played games worth of a rank <10 because you just have not played that much. If the match ends 500 vs something <100 it is clearly unbalanced. Be it because of different rank or the matchmaking rating was just wrong and it matched you against a much much higher rated team.

Also points does in the score table does not say that much… he could just have tried to capture a point being killed all the time because the enemy was just better(and much higher rating). If he can’t capture the point because there were no free points to cap and all the points were well defended you can’t blame him.

Edit: Down state: Yeah… the different down states are interesting and you really need to learn to know them all. Being downed the same time(becaue you were low health after having downed someone) can be a problem fighting some classes. 1 vs. 1 in downed both starting at same health some have an advantage and you should not get downed(or hope someone is coming to help).

And @matchmaking: I also think it is important which classes are in the teams. Sometimes it gives you 3 or more of 1 class… not always helping even if the 3 people are of some class considered op(not every player might play them in the op way).

Matchmaking is done by rating, not rank. It can happen that the low level guys got matched up against other low levels and won all of them by luck, while the high-ranked ones had a bad streak and lost almost every single battle in that day.

Played three games in a row against the same premade team (guildgroup). In my teams everyone was queuing solo. This is how the second game looked at the end:

But great to hear splitting solo queue from premade isn’t “high priority”
Do you really think if you don’t fix you matchmaking system Arenanet, there will be enough players left to play your custom maps or watch the spectator mode?

Gandarel.5091:

Matchmaking is done by rating, not rank. It can happen that the low level guys got matched up against other low levels and won all of them by luck, while the high-ranked ones had a bad streak and lost almost every single battle in that day.

I know that is done by rating but i doubt that one rank 1-5 has the same rating than a r40…

Considering the number of people on the leaderboards with like 10-20 games played, I’d say that is a fairly ignorant assumption. The #10 on the NA leaderboard right now has 13 games played.

Not only that, do you even KNOW how ELO works? Playing with lower ranked players will lower your teams overall rating. A lower rated team loses less points on a loss than a higher rated one, especially when matched up with a full premade when they’re totally outclassed. That’s what the ratings are for.

Newsflash regarding ranks: this queue and the leaderboard was the first decent thing they added to sPvP since launch, maps aside. Most people don’t bother grinding through something that is terrible, and those same people don’t exactly look at someone with a badge-of-grinding (high rank) as anything special. And judging by your performance in the game shown in your screenshot and your lack of presence on the leaderboard, I don’t think you’re one to talk.

Here we come E-sports

They were a fullpremade btw

Sure rank doesn’t matter that much…but seriously? How the kitten is a rank 1 supposed to be good in tpvp? Rank 1 means you pretty much never went to pvp…….never in you life…and now you’re in team with me, and it turns out to be something like 4vs5

Split dam solo and premade teams, maybe just let ppl join with full group or alone only…so there won’t be the problem of 3 ppl on ts into solo matches and so on..and dear god fix that kitten matchmaking already..

Gandarel.5091:

Matchmaking is done by rating, not rank. It can happen that the low level guys got matched up against other low levels and won all of them by luck, while the high-ranked ones had a bad streak and lost almost every single battle in that day.

Yeup, I was on top of my game but dropped from rank 45 to 70~ percentile from pugging for a few hours.
kitten ranking system.
I really don’t like fighting for the most part with/against people of allot lower skill in this conquest/GW2 setup.
It just ends up annoying me.

Celeras.4980:

Considering the number of people on the leaderboards with like 10-20 games played, I’d say that is a fairly ignorant assumption. The #10 on the NA leaderboard right now has 13 games played.

Not only that, do you even KNOW how ELO works? Playing with lower ranked players will lower your teams overall rating. A lower rated team loses less points on a loss than a higher rated one, especially when matched up with a full premade when they’re totally outclassed. That’s what the ratings are for.

Newsflash regarding ranks: this queue and the leaderboard was the first decent thing they added to sPvP since launch, maps aside. Most people don’t bother grinding through something that is terrible, and those same people don’t exactly look at someone with a badge-of-grinding (high rank) as anything special. And judging by your performance in the game shown in your screenshot and your lack of presence on the leaderboard, I don’t think you’re one to talk.

Don’t get your panties in such a bunch. By the way do you know how ELO works? Why does somebody that defends this horrible match making system always ask that question? Did you ever stop to think for a second that a system that allows newbs that go on a hot streak in a limited ammount of games to somehow face a premade that lost a few games is possibly bad whatever you call it? Why do you put so much blind trust in this system? Its needs a lot of work regardless of whether its split queues that are needed or a longer wait to match make or a system where you need to build up your rating a bit before you can appear on the leaderboard or can possibly be deemed good enough to face premades. For you to act like everything is hunkydory makes you sound a little ignorant tbh or else you have some kind of interest to protect ie you run in premades all the time and are happier then a pig in slop to be able to pubstomp all day.

@Kwll

From what I’ve seen the matchmaking does seem to favor throwing premade against premade, but the thing is… there is a very low population of premades the majority of the time.

I’ve sat in que for 20~ minutes on a sunday night in a leaderboard rank 200-600 premade WITHOUT SEPARATE QUES.
Too many issues in this flaming game for there to be an easy fix.

New players start around the mean of the matchmaking rating. So, if you’re an average player, you will often encouter players that are new to system and their performance isn’t well evaluated. Just look at the second screenshot in this thread! That’s why ELO works well at both ends of skill, but fails in between.

Another flaw of the elo system is very apparent in GuildWars2, because the game lacks players at certain times. The pool of PvP’ers is too small, so sometimes a team mixed of high and low-skilled players is matched against a team with 5 average players. Their teamratings might be close, but the performance might vary. In LoL two good players can easily carry a match, while in GW2 the team with the 5 average players will probably win.

At certain points I have my doubts about the level of sophistication for the matchmaking in GuildWars2. It puts you in a group of five first, then searches for another 5 equally skilled players. Pooling 10 players first and then distributing them to two equally strong teams is the superior way of doing it. Some features of the matchmaking are still stuck in the old design of 8 team tournaments.

FirstBlood.7359:

New players start around the mean of the matchmaking rating. So, if you’re an average player, you will often encouter players that are new to system and their performance isn’t well evaluated. Just look at the second screenshot in this thread! That’s why ELO works well at both ends of skill, but fails in between.

Bad ELO does that.
No developer in their right mind would wiki “ELO equation” then just throw it and its formula exactly in their game.

LoL found a pretty good way to enact it.

Common matchmaking.
Though, I’ve stopped judging people’s skill level based on their glory rank.

I’d love to see some screen shots of teams with low ranks beating a team of 40+ ranks for all the people saying rank =/ skill. While it’s not entirely true, most people who are 40+ got there by playing and winning tournaments, not farming hot join.

What do you like more. Facing a top 100 ranked team using voip and premade crutching against a solo que rag tag pile of garbage with unranked players…

or the “gg” you get at the end of the match from said top 100 ranked team when the final score is 500-50 and one of your rag tag solo que’ers has already dc’d mid match while the other 3 are still trying to learn how to use skill #1 ability.

Gg to you premade crutchers. Gg to you.

This matchmaking is non-existent. I remember being told by devs that splitting solo and premade ques was unnecessary because the solo que’ers would be funneled to the bottom and therefore would only play bottom feeders anyways. What a joke. The reality is premade farm teams reminiscent of the early paid / free tourny days (although at least free tournies were somewhat of a safehaven from the premades because a few of the quality teams did actually feel shame for just conducting glorified baby seal pug stomping).

Sprawl.3891:

most people who are 40+ got there by playing and winning tournaments, not farming hot join.

Sadly I think this is untrue even though it should be. Glory and Rank per unit time are higher in the 16 man zergfest. I would wager that there are far more 40 and 50+ Hot Join heroes than players that legitimately earned that with tPvP wins.

garethh.3518:

FirstBlood.7359:

New players start around the mean of the matchmaking rating. So, if you’re an average player, you will often encouter players that are new to system and their performance isn’t well evaluated. Just look at the second screenshot in this thread! That’s why ELO works well at both ends of skill, but fails in between.

Bad ELO does that.
No developer in their right mind would wiki “ELO equation” then just throw it and its formula exactly in their game.

LoL found a pretty good way to enact it.

Before your first match the system doesn’t know, how good you are as a player. The only solution to this is, mathematically speaking, to use the expected value of your skill. That’s why new players always start around the mean value.
In League of Legends new players started at 1200 rating in the first two seasons (I haven’t played in s3). Between 1100 – 1300 the matchmaking was very inaccurate, because for the reasons mentioned above there was so much uncertainty about the player’s real skill in this rating range. The consequence: uneven matches and a massive cryout on the forums. I’m still sorry for everyone that had to play in those ratings.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Sprawl.3891:

most people who are 40+ got there by playing and winning tournaments, not farming hot join.

Sadly I think this is untrue even though it should be. Glory and Rank per unit time are higher in the 16 man zergfest. I would wager that there are far more 40 and 50+ Hot Join heroes than players that legitimately earned that with tPvP wins.

ok so show me a pic of an all 40+ team losing to a non reroll team of teenies

Rank does NOT equal skill. Rank is simply a metric for experience. Just because you are rank 40 does not mean you are playing at an elite level

Confusing? Yes it is.

I like it because every one on this thread assumes there is a pool of players to choose from to get an average rating. My guess is the system is what it is because of the lack of pvp player base, hence it uses what it has.

WaffylesYay.9735:

Rank does NOT equal skill. Rank is simply a metric for experience. Just because you are rank 40 does not mean you are playing at an elite level

Confusing? Yes it is.

hi can you post ss of all r40+ team losing to team in their teens

FirstBlood.7359:

In League of Legends new players started at 1200 rating in the first two seasons

They have a dozen ‘test’ games it runs you threw with other new to 30 players to get a rough take on your ELO. That along with the required 30 levels before ELO even kicks in tends to create pretty good matchmaking.
Compared to what GW2 does, LoL has the god-send of matchmaking.

I mean, short of the smurfing problem, but that’s just a problem for FTP games.

This seems like a good thread to share this: I normally solo queue (hover around 80-85% percentile) and when I do, the games are very evenly matched in terms of player skill and I win about 50% of the time (meaning my solo queuing skill stays steady at that level). This made me think the MMR system was working great.

Last night, I decided to try out group queuing with some random people from my guild (no voice chat, literally a random guild pug). As a group, we were put up against people that were terrible. We went on an 8 win streak before we called it a night, after 3-capping every single group. Somehow the system thought we were on the same level as new players for 8 games in a row.

It really seems like there’s something weird with premade group matchmaking. After experiencing this great difference, I can see why so many solo pvpers get steamrolled by premades. The system doesn’t appear to have an accurate way of determining group skill. It’s almost as if a premade group (even if it’s a PUG) gets put up against brand new players.

Maybe each newly formed group has its own MMR? If so, does that mean that groups who swap out a member start at a low MMR and can go on 10+ win winning streaks against lowly ranked players despite individual members having high MMR?

garethh.3518:

FirstBlood.7359:

In League of Legends new players started at 1200 rating in the first two seasons

They have a dozen ‘test’ games it runs you threw with other new to 30 players to get a rough take on your ELO. That along with the required 30 levels before ELO even kicks in tends to create pretty good matchmaking.
I mean, short of smurfs, but that’s only a notable problem for FTP games.

Test games isnt’t the right word, placement matches is. Just because your ELO isn’t displayed until the 10th match doesn’t mean it hasn’t been there the entire time. Your rating is just hidden for the first matches, because it jumps alot and has no validity.
There’s no specific pool with new players to ranked. What conclusion could a system draw from matching two teams of unknown newcomers? None.
You’re matched with and against players that are stuck around 1200 rating with thousand of matches played. After beating those guys, the matchmaking knows that you’re better or worse than the average. These average guys are the first test in the system and thus have to live with the worst matchmaking.

Apolo.5942:

I like it because every one on this thread assumes there is a pool of players to choose from to get an average rating. My guess is the system is what it is because of the lack of pvp player base, hence it uses what it has.

This. This systems aren’t rocket science, i’m sure they have something decent, that even tries to put you against a premade if you are playing with a premade, it’s just that there is no matchmaking system that can make up for a low playerbase.
By the way if u want to be high in the leaderboard don’t ever play solo, stick with ur premade team and only with ur premade team, and if u really really want to play solo, buy another account (arena.net will be happy ).

Kharr.5746:

Maybe each newly formed group has its own MMR? If so, does that mean that groups who swap out a member start at a low MMR and can go on 10+ win winning streaks against lowly ranked players despite individual members having high MMR?

From what I’ve been able to gather, the MMR is averaged on the team so the moment you bring in someone with “low” MMR, you immediately start to confuse the system into not knowing where to properly place you (would be nice if we had group, solo rankings to avoid this) (or, instead of any low rating, four average players and a fifth high rating player will still be close to average when averaged over). If one or two people in your PUG are low ranked, then the game would average you to average or so, or if you whole team was average or close to it. Moreover, new players enter at a median of sorts on the rating scale. The system doesn’t know how good or bad they are for a few games, so it assumes average.

So, if you enter the system with an average rating, it doesn’t take much to imagine that the system would/could match you against other perceived similar averages. There’s definitely a pre-made vs. pre-made bias in the system but if that fails to be met after enough time it seems to default to just MMR averages. This is an issue of populations, more or less. Once you play a number of games as a pre-made, the system would expect your rating to climb to such a point as to never really run into solo-q averages unless they have some bizarrely high ranked solo-qed players.

Of course, I don’t really know why I never run into these problems all that much? I do spend most of my time in WvW, but when I do solo-q, I’m very rarely pitted against a pre-made and most nights I won’t even see this problem. Maybe I just play at the wrong time.

We went 3ppl + 2 pug this morning and after some wins vs decent teams we faced those guys, they were 5 but the last one was like 20+ and he left at around 350-400 (I can’t really blame him) matchmaking is so kittened up, even from a winner’s point of view this is clearly stupid…i know they were probably the only ones queued up when we submitted, but seriously…this is plain crap..

http://s21.postimg.org/lfo4r13yv/gw034.jpg

Archaon.6245:

We went 3ppl + 2 pug this morning and after some wins vs decent teams we faced those guys, they were 5 but the last one was like 20+ and he left at around 350-400 (I can’t really blame him) matchmaking is so kittened up, even from a winner’s point of view this is clearly stupid…i know they were probably the only ones queued up when we submitted, but seriously…this is plain crap..

http://s21.postimg.org/lfo4r13yv/gw034.jpg

but but but rank doesn’t equal skill n stuff. still waiting for a screen shot of a r40+ team losing to a low rank team

Sprawl.3891:

Archaon.6245:

We went 3ppl + 2 pug this morning and after some wins vs decent teams we faced those guys, they were 5 but the last one was like 20+ and he left at around 350-400 (I can’t really blame him) matchmaking is so kittened up, even from a winner’s point of view this is clearly stupid…i know they were probably the only ones queued up when we submitted, but seriously…this is plain crap..

http://s21.postimg.org/lfo4r13yv/gw034.jpg

but but but rank doesn’t equal skill n stuff. still waiting for a screen shot of a r40+ team losing to a low rank team

Sprawl… Don’t bother asking, because you are not going to find it. I am sure it has happened, but it is an extreme rarity nad probably most often attributable to a connection problem.

Rank does not equal skill, but experience is somewhat measured by rank, and R40 vs R20 is a huge experience gap. Are there some Rank 20’s that can hold their own in a match against all rank 40’s? Yes. Should you expect a group of 5 R20 players to compete with 5 R40’s? I sure don’t. The MMR is imperfect. It is obvious. There is nothing left to see or say here really.

Best matches are always those with a rank 1 who tells the team that this is his first sPvP match (and tPvP), vs. a full premade consisting of players ranked 40~50.

That this doesn’t work should be clear.
At the moment, I am under the impression like the system is bugged, and is activily trying to put premades vs. pugs instead of the other way around.

But I assume, once they make solo and group queues, they will (and actually must) reset the leaderboards anyway, as the current ones won’t be accurate.