Guild Wars 2

found me a bug to squash

Is anyone really surprised? Thieves were already burst kings with the best mobility out of all berk classes and the best active defenses.

This patch they got 17% extra crit damage from traits, 10% extra damage modifier from having a condition on you (which they automatically apply with steal), extra damage modifier from trickery, and extra ferocity conversion on critical strikes.

Virtually, thief got the largest amount of damage modifiers on top of the highest base numbers values on their attacks on top of permanent poison uptime on the target.

And with hidden killer it’s even easier to land a backstab now since you get a free backstab every time you use steal on a target.

They also got executioner now as they don’t need to choose between the grandmasters that made them compete before.

LoL @ the noobs getting hit by Mesmer f1 and QQing about how it does “13k” , let me just say this to you idiots who clearly don’t know how to avoid this “13k” damage.

Don’t stop activating skills, and don’t waste your dodge on meaningless things, in order for you to get wreck by a Mesmer f1 in spvp or even wvw you must have 0 understanding on how to play against the class and how there able to do so much dmg. Also fyi now that clones death don’t apply any sort of cond on you destroying them would make more sense to single out the real Mesmer and cutting his or her dmg by half.

As for backstab any idiot can land it and spam it in spvp or wvw just gotta wait for the right moment for it to able to actually hit for that hard.

We all know it doesn’t take much skills to play a thieves but hence why they die so fast/easy for players to pick up. Backstab is fine how it is cooldown aren’t needed if this is really a problem for you and your really getting hit TWICE by the skill then you should think about changing your build/work on timing/dodging certain spells in the game.

all thieves should degen 100 health per sec for every initiative

am i doing this right?

Glass cannon kills glass cannon nothing new

Ross Biddle.2367:

Shadow.1345:

I know, the dude is like standing there like one of the training NPCs in HotM just waiting for you to set up the backstab.

Meanwhile in gudland,…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQglrsPBeF0

Player applies appropriate amount of damage to low health, high glass enemy (which he knew was there) to down him, and he’s “gud”? Surely this is just a basic math problem XD

I’m not a total fan of Helseth, but this play was a really nice to watch.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Shadow.1345:

I know, the dude is like standing there like one of the training NPCs in HotM just waiting for you to set up the backstab.

Meanwhile in gudland,…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQglrsPBeF0

Player applies appropriate amount of damage to low health, high glass enemy (which he knew was there) to down him, and he’s “gud”? Surely this is just a basic math problem XD

Lol, compared to a guy that stands there while some baddie thief tries to backstab him through invulnerability and doesn’t turn around and cleave the thief down? Yes. xD

@StikerHappy my point with the video is that a person doesn’t just have to stand there and wait to eat 7k damage. Sure we aren’t all as good as these pros but sitting there while blockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblock
blockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblock7kdamage is like hearing someone breaking into your house and doing a really bad job of being quiet and you sit there until after he finally gets in and takes all your stuff before calling the police just because you couldn’t see the burglar because it was dark and he was wearing dark clothes.

Shadow.1345:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Shadow.1345:

I know, the dude is like standing there like one of the training NPCs in HotM just waiting for you to set up the backstab.

Meanwhile in gudland,…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQglrsPBeF0

Player applies appropriate amount of damage to low health, high glass enemy (which he knew was there) to down him, and he’s “gud”? Surely this is just a basic math problem XD

Lol, compared to a guy that stands there while some baddie thief tries to backstab him through invulnerability and doesn’t turn around and cleave the thief down? Yes. xD

@StikerHappy my point with the video is that a person doesn’t just have to stand there and wait to eat 7k damage. Sure we aren’t all as good as these pros but sitting there while blockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblock7kdamage is like hearing someone breaking into your house and doing a really bad job of being quiet and you sit there until after he finally gets in and takes all your stuff before calling the police just because you couldn’t see the burglar because it was dark and he was wearing dark clothes.

And in the other guy defense, Helseth didn’t eat the backstab because the thief didn’t even plan to do so, otherwise he wouldn’t be on his sb AAing him.

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Shadow.1345:

I know, the dude is like standing there like one of the training NPCs in HotM just waiting for you to set up the backstab.

Meanwhile in gudland,…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQglrsPBeF0

Player applies appropriate amount of damage to low health, high glass enemy (which he knew was there) to down him, and he’s “gud”? Surely this is just a basic math problem XD

Lol, compared to a guy that stands there while some baddie thief tries to backstab him through invulnerability and doesn’t turn around and cleave the thief down? Yes. xD

@StikerHappy my point with the video is that a person doesn’t just have to stand there and wait to eat 7k damage. Sure we aren’t all as good as these pros but sitting there while blockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblock7kdamage is like hearing someone breaking into your house and doing a really bad job of being quiet and you sit there until after he finally gets in and takes all your stuff before calling the police just because you couldn’t see the burglar because it was dark and he was wearing dark clothes.

And in the other guy defense, Helseth didn’t eat the backstab because the thief didn’t even plan to do so, otherwise he wouldn’t be on his sb AAing him.

I think you missed the point.

Shadow.1345:

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Shadow.1345:

I know, the dude is like standing there like one of the training NPCs in HotM just waiting for you to set up the backstab.

Meanwhile in gudland,…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQglrsPBeF0

Player applies appropriate amount of damage to low health, high glass enemy (which he knew was there) to down him, and he’s “gud”? Surely this is just a basic math problem XD

Lol, compared to a guy that stands there while some baddie thief tries to backstab him through invulnerability and doesn’t turn around and cleave the thief down? Yes. xD

@StikerHappy my point with the video is that a person doesn’t just have to stand there and wait to eat 7k damage. Sure we aren’t all as good as these pros but sitting there while blockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblock7kdamage is like hearing someone breaking into your house and doing a really bad job of being quiet and you sit there until after he finally gets in and takes all your stuff before calling the police just because you couldn’t see the burglar because it was dark and he was wearing dark clothes.

And in the other guy defense, Helseth didn’t eat the backstab because the thief didn’t even plan to do so, otherwise he wouldn’t be on his sb AAing him.

I think you missed the point.

You said your point is that you don’t have to stand there and eat 7k damage. That happens when you’re going to get backstabbed from stealth, it didn’t because the thief didn’t plan on using backstab. While your point is true, having this video as a proof is not correct since there was no need to avoid backstab. Don’t think I did.

Kreweless.2196:

Maybe Backstab should have a cool down. Just maybe.

Some people’s whining threads should have a cool down too

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Shadow.1345:

I know, the dude is like standing there like one of the training NPCs in HotM just waiting for you to set up the backstab.

Meanwhile in gudland,…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQglrsPBeF0

Player applies appropriate amount of damage to low health, high glass enemy (which he knew was there) to down him, and he’s “gud”? Surely this is just a basic math problem XD

Lol, compared to a guy that stands there while some baddie thief tries to backstab him through invulnerability and doesn’t turn around and cleave the thief down? Yes. xD

@StikerHappy my point with the video is that a person doesn’t just have to stand there and wait to eat 7k damage. Sure we aren’t all as good as these pros but sitting there while blockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblock7kdamage is like hearing someone breaking into your house and doing a really bad job of being quiet and you sit there until after he finally gets in and takes all your stuff before calling the police just because you couldn’t see the burglar because it was dark and he was wearing dark clothes.

And in the other guy defense, Helseth didn’t eat the backstab because the thief didn’t even plan to do so, otherwise he wouldn’t be on his sb AAing him.

I think you missed the point.

You said your point is that you don’t have to stand there and eat 7k damage. That happens when you’re going to get backstabbed from stealth, it didn’t because the thief didn’t plan on using backstab. While your point is true, having this video as a proof is not correct since there was no need to avoid backstab. Don’t think I did.

Ok, let us change that situation a bit theoretically, having in mind that Helsith did not know if the thief would engage with backstab or surprise shot (what is a normal move to bait defenses). What if in that moment Helseth used his Sword 2 invulnerability the thief would have used steal + backstab (greedy greedy thief) and continud to cast backstab into blurred frenzy. You think that Helseth would just stand there and eat the backstab after that? Never…
Even if the steal + backstab would have landed, break stun and counterburst, invulnerability from F4, etc. Of course the thief could have been on full zerker DA, CS, trickery and oneshot Helseth. Well, in that case it can happen the other way around easily.
If I´m watching right, the thief tried to time his surprise shot for hitting after blurred frenzy finished. Dodged and reflected the second arrow back. Thats counterplay for its finest ^^
We don´t know exactly what happend in their minds in that situation, but that blurred frenzy and dodge + maybe decoy is a normal move to bait steal or an engage (backstab, shadow shot, surprise shot) from the thief.

Coronit.9432:

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Shadow.1345:

I know, the dude is like standing there like one of the training NPCs in HotM just waiting for you to set up the backstab.

Meanwhile in gudland,…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQglrsPBeF0

Player applies appropriate amount of damage to low health, high glass enemy (which he knew was there) to down him, and he’s “gud”? Surely this is just a basic math problem XD

Lol, compared to a guy that stands there while some baddie thief tries to backstab him through invulnerability and doesn’t turn around and cleave the thief down? Yes. xD

@StikerHappy my point with the video is that a person doesn’t just have to stand there and wait to eat 7k damage. Sure we aren’t all as good as these pros but sitting there while blockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblock7kdamage is like hearing someone breaking into your house and doing a really bad job of being quiet and you sit there until after he finally gets in and takes all your stuff before calling the police just because you couldn’t see the burglar because it was dark and he was wearing dark clothes.

And in the other guy defense, Helseth didn’t eat the backstab because the thief didn’t even plan to do so, otherwise he wouldn’t be on his sb AAing him.

I think you missed the point.

You said your point is that you don’t have to stand there and eat 7k damage. That happens when you’re going to get backstabbed from stealth, it didn’t because the thief didn’t plan on using backstab. While your point is true, having this video as a proof is not correct since there was no need to avoid backstab. Don’t think I did.

Ok, let us change that situation a bit theoretically, having in mind that Helsith did not know if the thief would engage with backstab or surprise shot (what is a normal move to bait defenses). What if in that moment Helseth used his Sword 2 invulnerability the thief would have used steal + backstab (greedy greedy thief) and continud to cast backstab into blurred frenzy. You think that Helseth would just stand there and eat the backstab after that? Never…
Even if the steal + backstab would have landed, break stun and counterburst, invulnerability from F4, etc. Of course the thief could have been on full zerker DA, CS, trickery and oneshot Helseth. Well, in that case it can happen the other way around easily.
If I´m watching right, the thief tried to time his surprise shot for hitting after blurred frenzy finished. Dodge and reflect the second arrow back. Thats counterplay for its finest ^^

Again, I did say the point is true and never claimed you have to stand and eat the damage, but acting like you can avoid it each time is wrong.

Laraley.7695:

Coronit.9432:

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Shadow.1345:

I know, the dude is like standing there like one of the training NPCs in HotM just waiting for you to set up the backstab.

Meanwhile in gudland,…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQglrsPBeF0

Player applies appropriate amount of damage to low health, high glass enemy (which he knew was there) to down him, and he’s “gud”? Surely this is just a basic math problem XD

Lol, compared to a guy that stands there while some baddie thief tries to backstab him through invulnerability and doesn’t turn around and cleave the thief down? Yes. xD

@StikerHappy my point with the video is that a person doesn’t just have to stand there and wait to eat 7k damage. Sure we aren’t all as good as these pros but sitting there while blockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblock7kdamage is like hearing someone breaking into your house and doing a really bad job of being quiet and you sit there until after he finally gets in and takes all your stuff before calling the police just because you couldn’t see the burglar because it was dark and he was wearing dark clothes.

And in the other guy defense, Helseth didn’t eat the backstab because the thief didn’t even plan to do so, otherwise he wouldn’t be on his sb AAing him.

I think you missed the point.

You said your point is that you don’t have to stand there and eat 7k damage. That happens when you’re going to get backstabbed from stealth, it didn’t because the thief didn’t plan on using backstab. While your point is true, having this video as a proof is not correct since there was no need to avoid backstab. Don’t think I did.

Ok, let us change that situation a bit theoretically, having in mind that Helsith did not know if the thief would engage with backstab or surprise shot (what is a normal move to bait defenses). What if in that moment Helseth used his Sword 2 invulnerability the thief would have used steal + backstab (greedy greedy thief) and continud to cast backstab into blurred frenzy. You think that Helseth would just stand there and eat the backstab after that? Never…
Even if the steal + backstab would have landed, break stun and counterburst, invulnerability from F4, etc. Of course the thief could have been on full zerker DA, CS, trickery and oneshot Helseth. Well, in that case it can happen the other way around easily.
If I´m watching right, the thief tried to time his surprise shot for hitting after blurred frenzy finished. Dodge and reflect the second arrow back. Thats counterplay for its finest ^^

Again, I did say the point is true and never claimed you have to stand and eat the damage, but acting like you can avoid it each time is wrong.

I never said that you could avoid it each time. I’m just saying that if you have some sort of defense up that protects from direct damage and you see the procs on it from absorbing damage (hello, they put those messages on screen for a reason) and do nothing then you deserve the 7k damage after it wears off for being stupid.

Except for the part that should that backstab attempt fail because you used some long cd defenses, any smart thief can cheaply renew stealth to try again or simply port away and re-engage when the mesmer’s defenses are on cooldown.

The whole problem with the thief is that his burst and mobility are on effectively lower cd’s than the defenses of cooldown based classes’ active defenses.

They can reset at will without any counter and if they’re patient they’re gonna run the mesmer out of cd’s.

Laraley.7695:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Shadow.1345:

I know, the dude is like standing there like one of the training NPCs in HotM just waiting for you to set up the backstab.

Meanwhile in gudland,…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQglrsPBeF0

Player applies appropriate amount of damage to low health, high glass enemy (which he knew was there) to down him, and he’s “gud”? Surely this is just a basic math problem XD

I’m not a total fan of Helseth, but this play was a really nice to watch.

Oh yeah, totally was. Two thumbs up.

It’s hard to take you seriously when even the title doesn’t make sense. Are you new to PvP? If so this is not the best way of improving.

Thanks everyone for your responses! This seems to be a really divisive topic. I can definitely tell which of you responders play Thief and which of you don’t!

Kreweless.2196:

Maybe Backstab should have a cool down. Just maybe.

Just because you can’t beat a thief as a mesmer when mesmer now does extremely well against thief doesn’t mean it needs a CD. Also this thief really has no defensive anything at all if he is hitting this hard.

Just saying.

Lol, it boggles my mind that people are complaining about thieves post patch. Thieves are EASILY, hands down one of two worst profs with the ranger.

Yes, even necros are worlds better than thieves right now, in a burst meta.

The amount of SERIOUS suggestions like BS having a cd, all stealth skills incurring an initiative cost is absolutely hilarious. You people are all so terrible at this game and it is so entertaining to read.

And I’m a mesmer main.

Vaux.7502:

Lol, it boggles my mind that people are complaining about thieves post patch. Thieves are EASILY, hands down one of two worst profs with the ranger.

Yes, even necros are worlds better than thieves right now, in a burst meta.

The amount of SERIOUS suggestions like BS having a cd, all stealth skills incurring an initiative cost is absolutely hilarious. You people are all so terrible at this game and it is so entertaining to read.

And I’m a mesmer main.

What?

LOL do not ever put rangers at the same level as thieves, do you see any rangers in top tier pvp? LOL

Vaux.7502:

Lol, it boggles my mind that people are complaining about thieves post patch. Thieves are EASILY, hands down one of two worst profs with the ranger.

Yes, even necros are worlds better than thieves right now, in a burst meta.

The amount of SERIOUS suggestions like BS having a cd, all stealth skills incurring an initiative cost is absolutely hilarious. You people are all so terrible at this game and it is so entertaining to read.

And I’m a mesmer main.

Can we still draw attention to consume plasma?

My favorite part is when people think that spinning around randomly to try to counter someone is good game design.

I have always thought it was silly that a Thief remains stealthed while spamming Backstab, though. Not many things were more frustrating than successfully dodging a Thief’s Backstab, only to be Backstabbed once my dodge roll ends. The risk/reward doesn’t seem to match up, but that goes for a whole slew of insta-cast abilities that hard-burst.

You cannot spam Backstab because of revealed. Revealed is the cooldown. To land a Backstab you first need to stealth, then you need to correctly land the hit on the player’s back. This is actually not easy against smart players because the stealth has a limited time. You don’t even need to dodge you know. You can just keep spinning around or run back and forth. There is no risk atm facing a thief because they will die from your random aoe anyway. Two hits.

You people don’t understand what you’re doing here. You’re complaining about a class that is already greatly weakened after the patch. You keep doing this even when every other class is currently way stronger and can one shot the thief. If Anet has any sense they will not listen to your random complaining just because of biased thinking and inexperience.

And lastly, If you get Backstabbed twice in a row, it IS a l2p issue. Anything can one shot a thief now, anything. And honestly, you cannot die to a thief now. At least, you shouldn’t be dying to a thief.

Maris.3164:

You cannot spam Backstab because of revealed. Revealed is the cooldown. To land a Backstab you first need to stealth, then you need to correctly land the hit on the player’s back. This is actually not easy against smart players because the stealth has a limited time. You don’t even need to dodge you know. You can just keep spinning around or run back and forth. There is no risk atm facing a thief because they will die from your random aoe anyway. Two hits.

You people don’t understand what you’re doing here. You’re complaining about a class that is already greatly weakened after the patch. You keep doing this even when every other class is currently way stronger and can one shot the thief. If Anet has any sense they will not listen to your random complaining just because of biased thinking and inexperience.

And lastly, If you get Backstabbed twice in a row, it IS a l2p issue. Anything can one shot a thief now, anything. And honestly, you cannot die to a thief now. At least, you shouldn’t be dying to a thief.

What? So you can’t spam it until it hits? LOL

Cogbyrn.7283:

My favorite part is when people think that spinning around randomly to try to counter someone is good game design.

I have always thought it was silly that a Thief remains stealthed while spamming Backstab, though. Not many things were more frustrating than successfully dodging a Thief’s Backstab, only to be Backstabbed once my dodge roll ends. The risk/reward doesn’t seem to match up, but that goes for a whole slew of insta-cast abilities that hard-burst.

The worst part is that the thief does not actually have to hit your back. The side/flank will suffice to gain the backstab bonus.

It’s actually a very generous ability that can be used around every 6 seconds and has no telegraph/wind up unlike warrior/mesmer burst.

It also happens that the very skill the thief uses to enter backstab blinds the target (so they have to first miss an attack before they try to prevent the thief from heartseeking into BP) and creates a pretty safe melee zone for the thief.

And this is on the class with the largest amount of teleports and resets ingame so while a mesmer/ele/warrior blow their 30+ second cd’s to do a burst sequence or defend themselves, the thief has far more frequent availability to both his defenses via stealth and at the same time his defense is also his own form of offense as stealth is not only an avoidance tool but grants access to one of the strongest nukes in the game.

Initiative simply allows the thief to spam his hard hitting attacks over and over more frequently than the defensive abilities of his opponents recharge.

Look at an ele. His full burst sequence involves a 36 sec cd Fire Grab, a 20 sec cd arcane missile, on top of landing an aimed burning speed. Or even worse, landing a phoenix. If he misses any of that, he’s out of commission for a good 20 seconds until his burst skills come back up.

StickerHappy.8052:

Maris.3164:

You cannot spam Backstab because of revealed. Revealed is the cooldown. To land a Backstab you first need to stealth, then you need to correctly land the hit on the player’s back. This is actually not easy against smart players because the stealth has a limited time. You don’t even need to dodge you know. You can just keep spinning around or run back and forth. There is no risk atm facing a thief because they will die from your random aoe anyway. Two hits.

You people don’t understand what you’re doing here. You’re complaining about a class that is already greatly weakened after the patch. You keep doing this even when every other class is currently way stronger and can one shot the thief. If Anet has any sense they will not listen to your random complaining just because of biased thinking and inexperience.

And lastly, If you get Backstabbed twice in a row, it IS a l2p issue. Anything can one shot a thief now, anything. And honestly, you cannot die to a thief now. At least, you shouldn’t be dying to a thief.

What? So you can’t spam it until it hits? LOL

There’s quite a difference between spamming backstab to hit and spamming backstab and landing it over and over. The later is not possible. OP asked for a cd to backstab and there is one – revealed.

Hey fellas! Helpful hint to all the brand new players congregating in this thread in regards to how to not be soulcrushingly terrible:

In the options menu, you can bind a key to the “dodge” button. After binding this button, you’ll be able to use it to roll away from dangerous attacks and area-of-effect spells!

For practice on this fancy new technique known as “dodging” (don’t worry, scary as it sounds, you’ll get it soon enough!) you can head to any PvE starting zone to find a friendly NPC here to help you press that button! Here’s an example of what you’re looking for: http://i.imgur.com/fdRgzw7.jpg

Good luck out there friends! Hope this guide helps in your future adventures in Tyria!

An idea is may be put all stealth attacks on the iniative bar, say 2? At least they if some thieves decide to spam on invul or blocking people they are punished for it.

Writetyper.1985:

Hey fellas! Helpful hint to all the brand new players congregating in this thread in regards to how to not be soulcrushingly terrible:

In the options menu, you can bind a key to the “dodge” button. After binding this button, you’ll be able to use it to roll away from dangerous attacks and area-of-effect spells!

For practice on this fancy new technique known as “dodging” (don’t worry, scary as it sounds, you’ll get it soon enough!) you can head to any PvE starting zone to find a friendly NPC here to help you press that button! Here’s an example of what you’re looking for: http://i.imgur.com/fdRgzw7.jpg

Good luck out there friends! Hope this guide helps in your future adventures in Tyria!

I tend to avoid thief nerf threads because I haven’t had a problem fighting thieves since the stealth render issue went away, but this here is a really dumb post. Largely because despite your condescending tone the suggestion you’ve given doesn’t actually work.

Dodge is a reactionary ability that can be used to avoid every burst skill in the game… Except backstab. Because in order to properly dodge an incoming attack you have to see the animation of the attack coming in and time the dodge so the evade frames come in just as the attack lands. An attack coming from an invisible opponent has no tell, and the best you can do is dodge when you THINK the thief might be about to press the backstab key. Dodging alone is not sufficient counterplay to backstab, and in fact can result in you being in an even worse position it you happen to have guessed wrong. You’re both low on health and out one dodge.

Now I’m not saying thief is overpowered, but I am saying that dodging alone isn’t going to let you reliably avoid a backstab.

choovanski.5462:

welcome to the new age of 1Shot Wars 2

Obviously!

StickerHappy.8052:

Vaux.7502:

Lol, it boggles my mind that people are complaining about thieves post patch. Thieves are EASILY, hands down one of two worst profs with the ranger.

Yes, even necros are worlds better than thieves right now, in a burst meta.

The amount of SERIOUS suggestions like BS having a cd, all stealth skills incurring an initiative cost is absolutely hilarious. You people are all so terrible at this game and it is so entertaining to read.

And I’m a mesmer main.

What?

LOL do not ever put rangers at the same level as thieves, do you see any rangers in top tier pvp? LOL

Yes he did.

Mobility is the only reason thieves will be taken. Without it thieves have zero to offer to tpvp

T raw.4658:

Mobility is the only reason thieves will be taken. Without it thieves have zero to offer to tpvp

+1

Maris.3164:

You cannot spam Backstab because of revealed. Revealed is the cooldown. To land a Backstab you first need to stealth, then you need to correctly land the hit on the player’s back. This is actually not easy against smart players because the stealth has a limited time. You don’t even need to dodge you know. You can just keep spinning around or run back and forth. There is no risk atm facing a thief because they will die from your random aoe anyway. Two hits.

You people don’t understand what you’re doing here. You’re complaining about a class that is already greatly weakened after the patch. You keep doing this even when every other class is currently way stronger and can one shot the thief. If Anet has any sense they will not listen to your random complaining just because of biased thinking and inexperience.

And lastly, If you get Backstabbed twice in a row, it IS a l2p issue. Anything can one shot a thief now, anything. And honestly, you cannot die to a thief now. At least, you shouldn’t be dying to a thief.

You can spam Backstab, because if you miss, or if it is dodged, or if it is blocked, or if the player is invuln, you just keep using it. I once was standing in Well of Darkness, pulsing blind every second, thinking I was safe from a Thief. He just spammed Backstab, and hit me between blind pulses. I think that was the moment I truly decided Backstab was designed terribly.

And the design of other classes at the moment doesn’t free Backstab from being silly. The smoke and mirrors arguments that try to misdirect attention only show me that the best defense for the ability is to try to get people to stop talking about it.

Just imagine any other class being able to spam a burst ability just because it is blocked/dodged/invuln’d. Picture a Warrior Skullcracking repeatedly until it lands, or Mesmer clones not shattering if the player dodges, or an Elementalist Fire Grabbing over and over until it hits, or anything, really. Imagine dodging Signet of Spite from a Necro, then he just Signet of Spites you again. Even if you picture all of this within a simple 3 second grace period, where you can only spam for 3 seconds, it’s still a completely ridiculous notion.

I always thought Backstab shouldn’t be damage, but some sort of utility instead, then re-route the damage component into some other abilit(y/ies). However, it’s never going to be changed, so I stopped fighting it. I was amused to see the patch note that they made it so Backstab didn’t unstealth the Thief on a miss. My change of choice almost made it into the game. tear

DarkSyze.8627:

choovanski.5462:

welcome to the new age of 1Shot Wars 2

Obviously!

well, it’s what happens when damage goes up and defensive stats don’t. splat splat splat.

StickerHappy.8052:

Maris.3164:

You cannot spam Backstab because of revealed. Revealed is the cooldown. To land a Backstab you first need to stealth, then you need to correctly land the hit on the player’s back. This is actually not easy against smart players because the stealth has a limited time. You don’t even need to dodge you know. You can just keep spinning around or run back and forth. There is no risk atm facing a thief because they will die from your random aoe anyway. Two hits.

You people don’t understand what you’re doing here. You’re complaining about a class that is already greatly weakened after the patch. You keep doing this even when every other class is currently way stronger and can one shot the thief. If Anet has any sense they will not listen to your random complaining just because of biased thinking and inexperience.

And lastly, If you get Backstabbed twice in a row, it IS a l2p issue. Anything can one shot a thief now, anything. And honestly, you cannot die to a thief now. At least, you shouldn’t be dying to a thief.

What? So you can’t spam it until it hits? LOL

A thief’s stealth lasts 3 seconds outside of a minute long stealth cooldown. Do you understand how EASY it is to avoid a backstab for 3 seconds? It’s like impossible NOT to do.

And you idiots acting like thieves shouldn’t be able to get a backstab off when using a minute long cooldown make me laugh, other classes get to pull off bigger burst much easier, without the use of ANY cooldowns.

Vaux.7502:

A thief’s stealth lasts 3 seconds outside of a minute long stealth cooldown. Do you understand how EASY it is to avoid a backstab for 3 seconds? It’s like impossible NOT to do.

And you idiots acting like thieves shouldn’t be able to get a backstab off when using a minute long cooldown make me laugh, other classes get to pull off bigger burst much easier, without the use of ANY cooldowns.

If Thieves could only enter stealth once per minute, I’d have no problem with Backstab. Do you think Thieves can only enter stealth every 60 seconds? How frequently do you think Thieves can stealth?

And here’s a fun fact: the burst is a cooldown for other classes, in almost every situation.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Vaux.7502:

A thief’s stealth lasts 3 seconds outside of a minute long stealth cooldown. Do you understand how EASY it is to avoid a backstab for 3 seconds? It’s like impossible NOT to do.

And you idiots acting like thieves shouldn’t be able to get a backstab off when using a minute long cooldown make me laugh, other classes get to pull off bigger burst much easier, without the use of ANY cooldowns.

If Thieves could only enter stealth once per minute, I’d have no problem with Backstab. Do you think Thieves can only enter stealth every 60 seconds? How frequently do you think Thieves can stealth?

And here’s a fun fact: the burst is a cooldown for other classes, in almost every situation.

The point is, when a thief uses stealth outside of his cooldown, it is EXTREMELY easy to avoid him/backstab. It’s 3 seconds with a 4 second reveal. There is tons of counterplay and if you’re just letting yourself get constantly BSd to death, it’s your own kitten play that needs looked at.

And no, most other class’ burst are not on long cooldowns. A thief’s backstab is essentially on a 7 second cooldown. A mesmer/ele/engi (professions actually strong in this patch) can burst much more frequently/easy.

Stealth burst is good against bad players, period. That’s the only reason people complain about it. You will never see any top player complain about thieves right now, they’re borderline trash-tier.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Vaux.7502:

A thief’s stealth lasts 3 seconds outside of a minute long stealth cooldown. Do you understand how EASY it is to avoid a backstab for 3 seconds? It’s like impossible NOT to do.

And you idiots acting like thieves shouldn’t be able to get a backstab off when using a minute long cooldown make me laugh, other classes get to pull off bigger burst much easier, without the use of ANY cooldowns.

If Thieves could only enter stealth once per minute, I’d have no problem with Backstab. Do you think Thieves can only enter stealth every 60 seconds? How frequently do you think Thieves can stealth?

And here’s a fun fact: the burst is a cooldown for other classes, in almost every situation.

He means that the only long duration is on a 1 minute CD unless you trait Concealed Defeat which competes with Shadow’s Embrace so I don’t see many people taking that. Otherwise 3 seconds of stealth and in that that three seconds yes it is actually pretty easy to avoid backstab. Maining a thief I often can’t get a backstab in those three seconds if the person stays constantly moving since without swiftness we all move at the same speed that means the thief can’t catch up to you without using shadowstep of some kind if you are already ahead of the thief. Pretty much the only easy backstab is the person that just stands there QQing about it. Then we only really get any good damage if it crits otherwise it’s only about 1.5k~2.5k damage without critically hitting. This really is a L2P issue.

Oh, I see what he means now.

But I still don’t believe I’ve seen an argument for Backstab that doesn’t:

A. Attack the skill of another player.
B. Invoke the ability of some other class.
C. Lament about how without it, the Thief class would be sullen/downtrodden/stepped all over/etc.
D. Describe an anecdotal situation where landing Backstab is, like, hard and stuff.

None of those do anything to actually support the ability’s design, they just distract the conversation.

And if something is only ever used to kill bad players, why is it so heavily defended? That makes it sound like it’s poorly designed and should be changed to something that isn’t poorly designed. Unless, of course, you just want to stab bad players for 8-10k damage, only to tell them it’s a L2P issue. But if that’s what you want, then I don’t trust your judgment on what is or isn’t good design.