Guild Wars 2

I’m stunned honestly.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/RIP-perma-swiftness/page/2#post5169529

This must be how engis got buffed into absurdity. The only game designer that listens to player feedback is the one working on engi.

What the….

They didn’t lose much swiftness. It was from easy perma 100% to 80% swiftness up time. It’s still good :O.

And they received a red post and a buff on that?

When was the last time you see a red post in Necro forums?

And look, Engi has 5 red posts on the front page :O
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer

Lol, interesting. So the Engi guy is actually more easily persuaded than other guy. The Necro guy probably is a stubborn-minded person who actually care about balance while the engi guy doesn’t really care about balance and just want a class to be stronger.

Now Engi will truly be God-tier after they take back the nerf.

Honestly that engie dev kinda kittened me off while i was watching the livestream. So cavalier about such ridiculous changes. This doesn’t even surprise me.

Wow… Engi overlords win again

I enjoy playing engi, but this honestly is disappointing to see. It really seems like there’s some favoritism going on, and not just with profession balance, but with addressing community concerns regarding professions.

Still hanging on to my 50 bucks.

meanwhile I’ll use my heal, utilities and elite I was provide to help kill myself to get into downstate faster. It gets even better when I trait for them!

Lock on and speedy kit are on the same master trait so it’s a good trade off.

No one would get speedy kit with 10s speed. Now with 20s is always a very good option.

Toxsa.2701:

Lol, interesting. So the Engi guy is actually more easily persuaded than other guy. The Necro guy probably is a stubborn-minded person who actually care about balance while the engi guy doesn’t really care about balance and just want a class to be stronger.

Now Engi will truly be God-tier after they take back the nerf.

Oh cmon, all things aside, 10 seconds extra swiftness is hardly what will carry any class to ‘God-tier’ regardless of what you think of any other change.

Please, let’s not be silly about that.

As for the red posts, Josh Davis just happens to main Engi and be an active figure in terms of community interaction.

As if there isn’t an abundance of traits for other classes no one uses. You just don’t see a dev commenting on them and proceeding to buff them after it was already stated the changes are final.

Steamlined Kits would have seen a lot of play in wvw and pve without the buff, now it’s good enough to be taken in every game mode.

Edit: And no, this isn’t what carries engi to God-class, it’s a combination of all the other buffs they received. This buff just further proves the favoritism the devs have for certain classes.

I doubt that, people would of rather taken Medkit to run around in PvE, and WvW a lot of people bought Traveler Runes.

Plus a big part of Speedy kits was its synergy with IS in alchemy, which was nerfed due to the frequency of speedy’s procs after the coming patch AND the vigor nerf. Which means Speedy has been nerfed on two accounts.

At least with this it is an enticing mobility option.

MarkPhilips.5169:

Lock on and speedy kit are on the same master trait so it’s a good trade off.

No one would get speedy kit with 10s speed. Now with 20s is always a very good option.

It was fine as it was, I’m of the opinion that permanent swiftness without using cool downs to obtain was never a good design. It’s a good part of the reason why engi’s are so common.

The bigger problem for me is the disparity in developer response.

JohnnyZero.5619:

MarkPhilips.5169:

Lock on and speedy kit are on the same master trait so it’s a good trade off.

No one would get speedy kit with 10s speed. Now with 20s is always a very good option.

It was fine as it was, I’m of the opinion that permanent swiftness without using cool downs to obtain was never a good design. It’s a good part of the reason why engi’s are so common.

The bigger problem for me is the disparity in developer response.

Common in which game mode?

http://guildwars2viz.com/

In PvP i hardly think Swiftness is the main factor, they are just very potent there.

in WvW and PvE? hardly. In fact their low population in those two game modes is probably why they score lowest with Mesmer in population.

PistolWhip.2697:

Toxsa.2701:

Lol, interesting. So the Engi guy is actually more easily persuaded than other guy. The Necro guy probably is a stubborn-minded person who actually care about balance while the engi guy doesn’t really care about balance and just want a class to be stronger.

Now Engi will truly be God-tier after they take back the nerf.

Oh cmon, all things aside, 10 seconds extra swiftness is hardly what will carry any class to ‘God-tier’ regardless of what you think of any other change.

Please, let’s not be silly about that.

As for the red posts, Josh Davis just happens to main Engi and be an active figure in terms of community interaction.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed.
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Toxsa.2701:

Lol, interesting. So the Engi guy is actually more easily persuaded than other guy. The Necro guy probably is a stubborn-minded person who actually care about balance while the engi guy doesn’t really care about balance and just want a class to be stronger.

Now Engi will truly be God-tier after they take back the nerf.

Oh cmon, all things aside, 10 seconds extra swiftness is hardly what will carry any class to ‘God-tier’ regardless of what you think of any other change.

Please, let’s not be silly about that.

As for the red posts, Josh Davis just happens to main Engi and be an active figure in terms of community interaction.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed.
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

A full line actually. With the new system you have to commit 6 points.

And no, only mesmer does that. Even necromancers bring a Warhorn for swiftness in WvW and with 1 point can make it almost perma alone.

No class but Mesmer has mobility issues that need to be addressed by a Rune.

Also kit refinement ISNT a large bonus. You don’t need to be a champion genius to figure out the hate for that trait due to its weak and nonsensical effects. If anything it is a cherry on top of the mobility cake. One small cherry.

PistolWhip.2697:

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Toxsa.2701:

Lol, interesting. So the Engi guy is actually more easily persuaded than other guy. The Necro guy probably is a stubborn-minded person who actually care about balance while the engi guy doesn’t really care about balance and just want a class to be stronger.

Now Engi will truly be God-tier after they take back the nerf.

Oh cmon, all things aside, 10 seconds extra swiftness is hardly what will carry any class to ‘God-tier’ regardless of what you think of any other change.

Please, let’s not be silly about that.

As for the red posts, Josh Davis just happens to main Engi and be an active figure in terms of community interaction.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed.
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

A full line actually. With the new system you have to commit 6 points.

And no, only mesmer does that. Even necromancers bring a Warhorn for swiftness in WvW and with 1 point can make it almost perma alone.

No class but Mesmer has mobility issues that need to be addressed by a Rune.

Also kit refinement ISNT a large bonus. You don’t need to be a champion genius to figure out the hate for that trait due to its weak and nonsensical effects. If anything it is a cherry on top of the mobility cake. One small cherry.

Just saying, people do need to realize 25% and 33% is a HUGGGE difference in WvW in terms of mobility. It’s a life or death sentence of whether you could escape a zerg or thieves chasing you endlessly.

Having permanent access of 25% speed is NOTHING. Swiftness is more important. Too bad most classes need to sacrifice alot to achieve that, (lock the weapon choice usually) except Engi. (Don’t tell me you “sacrifice” an utility slot for swiftness, your kits do way more than skills that solely grant you swiftness) Permanent Swiftness is harder to achieve than you think when you’re roaming.

The engi swiftness nerf was the only thing I saw engineers complaining about and that was buffed. Every other class receives a “too bad” to things they’re not happy with. And there lies the problem.

Toxsa.2701:

PistolWhip.2697:

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Toxsa.2701:

Lol, interesting. So the Engi guy is actually more easily persuaded than other guy. The Necro guy probably is a stubborn-minded person who actually care about balance while the engi guy doesn’t really care about balance and just want a class to be stronger.

Now Engi will truly be God-tier after they take back the nerf.

Oh cmon, all things aside, 10 seconds extra swiftness is hardly what will carry any class to ‘God-tier’ regardless of what you think of any other change.

Please, let’s not be silly about that.

As for the red posts, Josh Davis just happens to main Engi and be an active figure in terms of community interaction.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed.
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

A full line actually. With the new system you have to commit 6 points.

And no, only mesmer does that. Even necromancers bring a Warhorn for swiftness in WvW and with 1 point can make it almost perma alone.

No class but Mesmer has mobility issues that need to be addressed by a Rune.

Also kit refinement ISNT a large bonus. You don’t need to be a champion genius to figure out the hate for that trait due to its weak and nonsensical effects. If anything it is a cherry on top of the mobility cake. One small cherry.

Just saying, people do need to realize 25% and 33% is a HUGGGE difference in WvW in terms of mobility. It’s a life or death sentence of whether you could escape a zerg or thieves chasing you endlessly.

Having permanent access of 25% speed is NOTHING. Swiftness is more important. Too bad most classes need to sacrifice alot to achieve that, (lock the weapon choice usually) except Engi. Permanent Swiftness is harder to achieve than you think when you’re roaming.

How is sacrificing a full line for 1 trait not a lot? Tools is a great line and I enjoy using it, but not all Engi’s do, and they have to for 33% mobility.

Classes have to give up some things for mobility sure, but so does Engineer. You guys act like speedy kits is baseline. It isn’t.

The other nerfs I understand, but demanding that speedy kits be nerfed in it’s swiftness just seems like a jealous slap in the face by other classes.

PistolWhip.2697:

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Toxsa.2701:

Lol, interesting. So the Engi guy is actually more easily persuaded than other guy. The Necro guy probably is a stubborn-minded person who actually care about balance while the engi guy doesn’t really care about balance and just want a class to be stronger.

Now Engi will truly be God-tier after they take back the nerf.

Oh cmon, all things aside, 10 seconds extra swiftness is hardly what will carry any class to ‘God-tier’ regardless of what you think of any other change.

Please, let’s not be silly about that.

As for the red posts, Josh Davis just happens to main Engi and be an active figure in terms of community interaction.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed.
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

A full line actually. With the new system you have to commit 6 points.

And no, only mesmer does that. Even necromancers bring a Warhorn for swiftness in WvW and with 1 point can make it almost perma alone.

No class but Mesmer has mobility issues that need to be addressed by a Rune.

Also kit refinement ISNT a large bonus. You don’t need to be a champion genius to figure out the hate for that trait due to its weak and nonsensical effects. If anything it is a cherry on top of the mobility cake. One small cherry.

1 trait point is 1 trait point. The fact that you have to take 2 similar ones now doesn’t mean you’re investing more. You’re all acting like the rest of the professions have a trait like this in every possible line.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed with 1 point. (the ones that dont get a signet passive)
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

try again when you can say something about the actual material there

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Toxsa.2701:

Lol, interesting. So the Engi guy is actually more easily persuaded than other guy. The Necro guy probably is a stubborn-minded person who actually care about balance while the engi guy doesn’t really care about balance and just want a class to be stronger.

Now Engi will truly be God-tier after they take back the nerf.

Oh cmon, all things aside, 10 seconds extra swiftness is hardly what will carry any class to ‘God-tier’ regardless of what you think of any other change.

Please, let’s not be silly about that.

As for the red posts, Josh Davis just happens to main Engi and be an active figure in terms of community interaction.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed.
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

A full line actually. With the new system you have to commit 6 points.

And no, only mesmer does that. Even necromancers bring a Warhorn for swiftness in WvW and with 1 point can make it almost perma alone.

No class but Mesmer has mobility issues that need to be addressed by a Rune.

Also kit refinement ISNT a large bonus. You don’t need to be a champion genius to figure out the hate for that trait due to its weak and nonsensical effects. If anything it is a cherry on top of the mobility cake. One small cherry.

1 trait point is 1 trait point. The fact that you have to take 2 similar ones now doesn’t mean you’re investing more.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed with 1 point. (the ones that dont get a signet passive)
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

try again when you can say something about the actual material there

But you’re wrong about your premise. One trait point is now one whole line. Try again when you say something about the actual material there.

Other classes also have access to swiftness far more often and less RNG than Engineer. Their reliable swiftness application with the exception of Elixir B relies around traits.

Warriors have signet of rage, and warhorn.
Thieves don’t need swiftness.
Necromancers have warhorn and spectral walk
etc..

You can’t just view things in a vacuum because it fits your argument, try to be less subjective next time.

PistolWhip.2697:

Toxsa.2701:

PistolWhip.2697:

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Toxsa.2701:

Lol, interesting. So the Engi guy is actually more easily persuaded than other guy. The Necro guy probably is a stubborn-minded person who actually care about balance while the engi guy doesn’t really care about balance and just want a class to be stronger.

Now Engi will truly be God-tier after they take back the nerf.

Oh cmon, all things aside, 10 seconds extra swiftness is hardly what will carry any class to ‘God-tier’ regardless of what you think of any other change.

Please, let’s not be silly about that.

As for the red posts, Josh Davis just happens to main Engi and be an active figure in terms of community interaction.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed.
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

A full line actually. With the new system you have to commit 6 points.

And no, only mesmer does that. Even necromancers bring a Warhorn for swiftness in WvW and with 1 point can make it almost perma alone.

No class but Mesmer has mobility issues that need to be addressed by a Rune.

Also kit refinement ISNT a large bonus. You don’t need to be a champion genius to figure out the hate for that trait due to its weak and nonsensical effects. If anything it is a cherry on top of the mobility cake. One small cherry.

Just saying, people do need to realize 25% and 33% is a HUGGGE difference in WvW in terms of mobility. It’s a life or death sentence of whether you could escape a zerg or thieves chasing you endlessly.

Having permanent access of 25% speed is NOTHING. Swiftness is more important. Too bad most classes need to sacrifice alot to achieve that, (lock the weapon choice usually) except Engi. Permanent Swiftness is harder to achieve than you think when you’re roaming.

How is sacrificing a full line for 1 trait not a lot? Tools is a great line and I enjoy using it, but not all Engi’s do, and they have to for 33% mobility.

Classes have to give up some things for mobility sure, but so does Engineer. You guys act like speedy kits is baseline. It isn’t.

The other nerfs I understand, but demanding that speedy kits be nerfed in it’s swiftness just seems like a jealous slap in the face by other classes.

Ah, most classes need to sacrifice the weapon choice AND wasting a full line on it to pick the trait that shorten the CD or grant swiftness after using x skills.

Not saying Engi shouldn’t get the swiftness, but my point is I originally thought they nerf speedy kit to compensate all the huge buffs they’re granting engi, making them a slower but more powerful nuker. I thought there’s a trade-off after all the buffing, but guess there’s no trade-off, just plain buffing.

That’s silly logic, Pistolwhip. That one line also provides other traits. Engi’s who don’t go into that line won’t receive perma swiftness, but that’s the same for every class that gains movepeed from a trait. Except when they invest into a line, they’re only gaining 25%movespeed with no added benefit.

PistolWhip.2697:

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Toxsa.2701:

Lol, interesting. So the Engi guy is actually more easily persuaded than other guy. The Necro guy probably is a stubborn-minded person who actually care about balance while the engi guy doesn’t really care about balance and just want a class to be stronger.

Now Engi will truly be God-tier after they take back the nerf.

Oh cmon, all things aside, 10 seconds extra swiftness is hardly what will carry any class to ‘God-tier’ regardless of what you think of any other change.

Please, let’s not be silly about that.

As for the red posts, Josh Davis just happens to main Engi and be an active figure in terms of community interaction.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed.
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

A full line actually. With the new system you have to commit 6 points.

And no, only mesmer does that. Even necromancers bring a Warhorn for swiftness in WvW and with 1 point can make it almost perma alone.

No class but Mesmer has mobility issues that need to be addressed by a Rune.

Also kit refinement ISNT a large bonus. You don’t need to be a champion genius to figure out the hate for that trait due to its weak and nonsensical effects. If anything it is a cherry on top of the mobility cake. One small cherry.

1 trait point is 1 trait point. The fact that you have to take 2 similar ones now doesn’t mean you’re investing more.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed with 1 point. (the ones that dont get a signet passive)
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

try again when you can say something about the actual material there

But you’re wrong about your premise. One trait point is now one whole line. Try again when you say something about the actual material there.

Other classes also have access to swiftness far more often and less RNG than Engineer. There reliable swiftness application relies around traits.

Warriors have signet of rage, and warhorn.
Thieves don’t need swiftness.
Necromancers have warhorn and spectral walk
etc..

You can’t just view things in a vacuum because it fits your argument, try to be less subjective next time.

“The fact that you have to take 2 similar ones now doesn’t mean you’re investing more.”
You don’t get “investment” at all is all that needs to be said.

You wanna talk about other classes having other options? What about elixir B, elixir H, med kit, infusing precision? You get the option to not take those because they suck.

Necro literally has no other options at all besides warhorn and spectral walk. “Far more often” is a kittening joke. You get better swiftness application than a necro utility and offhand together with one trait.

Warrior likewise. Their elite and another utility slot for blowing balanced stance on cooldown don’t even add up to as much swiftness as speedy kits. You’re again taking an offhand just to match up and untraited horn is literally the kittentiest possible offhand in a fight in the game.

You can’t just view things poorly, try to be less mediocre next time.

Toxsa.2701:

PistolWhip.2697:

Toxsa.2701:

PistolWhip.2697:

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Toxsa.2701:

Lol, interesting. So the Engi guy is actually more easily persuaded than other guy. The Necro guy probably is a stubborn-minded person who actually care about balance while the engi guy doesn’t really care about balance and just want a class to be stronger.

Now Engi will truly be God-tier after they take back the nerf.

Oh cmon, all things aside, 10 seconds extra swiftness is hardly what will carry any class to ‘God-tier’ regardless of what you think of any other change.

Please, let’s not be silly about that.

As for the red posts, Josh Davis just happens to main Engi and be an active figure in terms of community interaction.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed.
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

A full line actually. With the new system you have to commit 6 points.

And no, only mesmer does that. Even necromancers bring a Warhorn for swiftness in WvW and with 1 point can make it almost perma alone.

No class but Mesmer has mobility issues that need to be addressed by a Rune.

Also kit refinement ISNT a large bonus. You don’t need to be a champion genius to figure out the hate for that trait due to its weak and nonsensical effects. If anything it is a cherry on top of the mobility cake. One small cherry.

Just saying, people do need to realize 25% and 33% is a HUGGGE difference in WvW in terms of mobility. It’s a life or death sentence of whether you could escape a zerg or thieves chasing you endlessly.

Having permanent access of 25% speed is NOTHING. Swiftness is more important. Too bad most classes need to sacrifice alot to achieve that, (lock the weapon choice usually) except Engi. Permanent Swiftness is harder to achieve than you think when you’re roaming.

How is sacrificing a full line for 1 trait not a lot? Tools is a great line and I enjoy using it, but not all Engi’s do, and they have to for 33% mobility.

Classes have to give up some things for mobility sure, but so does Engineer. You guys act like speedy kits is baseline. It isn’t.

The other nerfs I understand, but demanding that speedy kits be nerfed in it’s swiftness just seems like a jealous slap in the face by other classes.

Ah, most classes need to sacrifice the weapon choice AND wasting a full line on it to pick the trait that shorten the CD or grant swiftness after using x skills.

Not saying Engi shouldn’t get the swiftness, but my point is I originally thought they nerf speedy kit to compensate all the huge buffs they’re granting engi, making them a slower but more powerful nuker. I thought there’s a trade-off after all the buffing, but guess there’s no trade-off, just plain buffing.

I keep seeing that Engi is getting huge buffs. But they have had a few nerfs in the form of IP, which by moving it has changed a lot, poison nades etc.

Now, they have had buffs, but the most major ones have been on the support line where all the crazy traits are about healing allies.

We don’t even know if the changes will be as crazy for any class as people predict because it isn’t in-game yet. Heck. Some classes which can utilise power will be getting a buff directly due to the stat changes in base stats+gear dependency for all stats now.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/33txr5/cele_amulet_will_receive_a_10_overall_stat_nerf/

My point is, we have to wait and see.

Just to add ^ The same would of applied to the speedy kits change, but the reverted it, so nothing to be done now.

I viewed the reduction of swiftness as unnecessary but I willing to wait and see what would happen despite my reflex reaction to the nerf initially. Sometimes, things just don’t go as planned.

Pretty much everyone here agrees engi > all
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Who-won-the-balance-changes/first

Aoe moa, blast on dodge, buffed elite skill that was already very strong, a buff to those ridiculous grenades that were far too strong already. List goes on.

They moved Incendiary Powder to GM, but I fail to see how they nerfed it: “Incendiary Powder: Your critical hits inflict 4s of burning. Burning you apply lasts 33% longer. This trait has a 10 second internal cooldown.”

And considering how much of a buff mesmers received, that’s saying something.

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Toxsa.2701:

Lol, interesting. So the Engi guy is actually more easily persuaded than other guy. The Necro guy probably is a stubborn-minded person who actually care about balance while the engi guy doesn’t really care about balance and just want a class to be stronger.

Now Engi will truly be God-tier after they take back the nerf.

Oh cmon, all things aside, 10 seconds extra swiftness is hardly what will carry any class to ‘God-tier’ regardless of what you think of any other change.

Please, let’s not be silly about that.

As for the red posts, Josh Davis just happens to main Engi and be an active figure in terms of community interaction.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed.
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

A full line actually. With the new system you have to commit 6 points.

And no, only mesmer does that. Even necromancers bring a Warhorn for swiftness in WvW and with 1 point can make it almost perma alone.

No class but Mesmer has mobility issues that need to be addressed by a Rune.

Also kit refinement ISNT a large bonus. You don’t need to be a champion genius to figure out the hate for that trait due to its weak and nonsensical effects. If anything it is a cherry on top of the mobility cake. One small cherry.

1 trait point is 1 trait point. The fact that you have to take 2 similar ones now doesn’t mean you’re investing more.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed with 1 point. (the ones that dont get a signet passive)
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

try again when you can say something about the actual material there

But you’re wrong about your premise. One trait point is now one whole line. Try again when you say something about the actual material there.

Other classes also have access to swiftness far more often and less RNG than Engineer. There reliable swiftness application relies around traits.

Warriors have signet of rage, and warhorn.
Thieves don’t need swiftness.
Necromancers have warhorn and spectral walk
etc..

You can’t just view things in a vacuum because it fits your argument, try to be less subjective next time.

“The fact that you have to take 2 similar ones now doesn’t mean you’re investing more.”
You don’t get “investment” at all is all that needs to be said.

You wanna talk about other classes having other options? What about elixir B, elixir H, med kit, infusing precision? You get the option to not take those because they suck.

Necro literally has no other options at all besides warhorn and spectral walk. “Far more often” is a kittening joke. You get better swiftness application than a necro utility and offhand together with one trait.

Warrior likewise. Their elite and another utility slot for blowing balanced stance on cooldown don’t even add up to as much swiftness as speedy kits. You’re again taking an offhand just to match up and untraited horn is literally the kittentiest possible offhand in a fight in the game.

You can’t just view things poorly, try to be less mediocre next time.

Wrong again. There Engineers who don’t want to invest into the Tools line who are forced into it for one trait because that is how the new system will work. There isn’t just going in for one trait anymore, it is one Line or no line. So you’re whole premise is still incorrect.

And if you want to talk about Engineer mobility, let us also address gap closers and movement skills. Because for some reason we must view swiftness as its own thing when evidently it is a part of mobility balance.

Many classes have movement skills with much shorter cool downs that let them out run engineer and his Jumpshot with ease.

So please don’t try to educate me on Warrior, a class I have almost 4000 hours on, a class which I have outrun Engineers on with almost any weapon set, or the simple inclusion of a greatsword.

You can’t just make baseless arguments and nonsensical points, try to be coherent next time.

Except engis are not forced to go into tools for Steamlined Kits so I don’t see how that applies. Tools has many good traits, hell Steamlined isn’t even the best trait of the bunch.

Kagamiku.9731:

Pretty much everyone here agrees engi > all
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Who-won-the-balance-changes/first

Aoe moa, blast on dodge, buffed elite skill that was already very strong, a buff to those ridiculous grenades that were far too strong already. List goes on.

They moved Incendiary Powder to GM, but I fail to see how they nerfed it: “Incendiary Powder: Your critical hits inflict 4s of burning. Burning you apply lasts 33% longer. This trait has a 10 second internal cooldown.”

And considering how much of a buff mesmers received, that’s saying something.

Please, you’re entitled to your opinion but lets not use a bunch of forum posts to represent a ‘majority’ of the player base.

In a post I can’t find but I read this morning on the GW2 subreddit that had quite a few upvotes (probably 50 by now or more) they said Mesmers got the biggest buff and infact Engi was 5th in terms of happiness with changes.

I am not saying that is proof of anything just as your link isn’t. We honestly have to wait and see.

And before you say I am biased, no, I haven’t invested anywhere near the same hours in Engineer as I have Warrior, Thief, Elementalist or Guardian.

Kagamiku.9731:

Except engis are not forced to go into tools for Steamlined Kits so I don’t see how that applies. Tools has many good traits, hell Steamlined isn’t even the best trait of the bunch.

You’re missing the point. Tools has amazing traits that I said I would love to and probably will take on my Engi.

My point is you HAVE to go tools to grab the trait, a full 6 because that is how the new system works, even if you don’t want any of the grandmasters.

Everything trait wise will be a heavier investment now, this has nothing to do with how useful the Tools line is but rather how the new system will promote having to commit to a line as opposed to cautiously edging into it for one or two traits.

50 upvotes on reddit is tiny. Mesmers did receive large buffs, some people probably think they received the largest buffs. You’re comparing the #1 most buffed class with the #2 most buffed class. Some opinions will diverge. But when 90% of posters think engi received the most buffs, it’s most likely true. You can see this simply by looking at the changes they received. Well, it’s fine to be in denial, you’ll see when the patch hits soon enough.

My point is you HAVE to go tools to grab the trait, a full 6 because that is how the new system works, even if you don’t want any of the grandmasters.

Please, just stop. Your logic is hurting my brain. The grandmasters are good, so you do want them. Case closed. The only way your point would apply is if every trait in tools sucked and you took tools exclusively for the swiftness…Which clearly is not the case.

I don’t understand how you can quantify ‘most’ posters for one, two, I don’t see why a share of posters (which counting how many people have posted more than once could be anywhere below or above 50) repeatedly posting their views on a thread has some how more credence than people expressing themselves on the subreddit but upvoting the view they agree with. (Because lets face it, most people on Reddit mis use that feature that way.)

I think they both have just as much credence for balance feed back.

And that is very limited with a heavy grain of salt sprinkled all atop them.

Kagamiku.9731:

My point is you HAVE to go tools to grab the trait, a full 6 because that is how the new system works, even if you don’t want any of the grandmasters.

Please, just stop. Your logic is hurting my brain. The grandmasters are good, so you do want them. Case closed. The only way your point would apply is if every trait in tools sucked and you took tools exclusively for the swiftness…Which clearly is not the case.

My logic is hurting your brain because you live in denial. How good the grandmasters are is irrelevant.

Once again the point flies above your head at breakneck speed. I will try to make this as simple as possible a final time for you and your aching brain.

NOT ALL Engineers, no matter how good or bad a line is, will want to spec in it, BECAUSE, people are different, and PEOPLE play different things OUTSIDE whatever the Meta defines sometimes.

BECAUSE of the new system, YOU can’t go 2 OR 4 into any trait line without committing a full 6. THUS it becomes less WHAT trait you want, but RATHER what LINE you want.

This means you have to take a whole line if you want the swiftness. Not one trait, a whole line. This has nothing with how good Tools is, because Tools is kitten good.

I fear I can’t explain this any simpler, and so I will bow out, agreeing to disagree with you all, because no matter what I say, it won’t change your views on how your preferred class is the underdog who is far too edgy for Anet to like.

On an off note, there have been many studies which have found human psychology would rather stick to one principle knowing it is wrong than take on board other’s views. The familiarity it breeds with ideas in it’s head causes a affection to them and it has a hard time giving them up even in the face of logic… Just saying…

Because the amount of posters on GW forums is tiny compared to the amount of posters on GW 2 reddit. 50 unique posts here would be 500 unique posts there, or more. Percentages are relative to the number of people participating.

This means you have to take a whole line if you want the swiftness. Not one trait, a whole line. This has nothing with how good Tools is, because Tools is kitten good.

You have to take the whole line if you want any trait in tools. If you put some thought into it, you would see that what you’re saying is flawed. You’re taking a traitline because of a combination of traits. You think to yourself “hmm, which combination of traits will best perform with what I’m trying to accomplish.” Streamlines kits makes tools a stronger contender. No one will pick the traitline exclusively for it, however. No matter how you dice it, you’re sacrificing one trait for it (lockdown or takedown strike) because you can still choose 2 other traits from adept and GM, as well as the three minor traits that are default to that traitline.

Pretty sad but pretty funny.

Kagamiku.9731:

Because the amount of posters on GW forums is tiny compared to the amount of posters on GW 2 reddit. 50 unique posts here would be 500 unique posts there, or more. Percentages are relative to the number of people participating.

This means you have to take a whole line if you want the swiftness. Not one trait, a whole line. This has nothing with how good Tools is, because Tools is kitten good.

You have to take the whole line if you want any trait in tools. If you put some thought into it, you would see that what you’re saying is flawed. You’re taking a traitline because of a combination of traits. You think to yourself “hmm, which combination of traits will best perform with what I’m trying to accomplish.” Streamlines kits makes tools a stronger contender. No one will pick the traitline exclusively for it, however. No matter how you dice it, you’re sacrificing one trait for it (lockdown or takedown strike) because you can still choose 2 other traits from adept and GM, as well as the three minor traits that are default to that traitline.

Honestly, mate. We’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

I hope whatever balance changes come, they can cater to the interest of as many people possible, including you and me.

this is……just stupid

This reminds me when mesmers complained about DE nerf and the Devs didn´t nerfed the trait.
Now its engies complaining about perma swiftness and the Devs give it back.

Now i see the buffs each class received and i understand why they were the most buffed classes….

Meanwhyle every other class is ignored….

Toxsa.2701:

Just saying, people do need to realize 25% and 33% is a HUGGGE difference in WvW in terms of mobility. It’s a life or death sentence of whether you could escape a zerg or thieves chasing you endlessly.

You do know that the difference is only while out of combat? While in combat swiftness and the 25% movment speeds increase traits/runes etc. do exactly the same. Here look at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Movement_speed if you dont believe me.

And if you are out of combat you can always WP out to avoid zergs or thieves chasing you. Yes admittingly it is annoying since you have to run from the start again but it is hardly a matter of life or death. So i dont think it is that much of a difference in WvW for the situations you described.

Infact if you are in combat the 25% movement speed traits/runes etc. are better then swiftness because they cannot be boon removed.

But for out of combat yeah swiftness is better, so i can see your point but i dont think it is as huge as you make it.

Engis are like the spoilt kid who got given everything in life and as soon as they have to work hard for success they cry to mummy and daddy and get given everything they need.

JohnnyZero.5619:

I enjoy playing engi, but this honestly is disappointing to see. It really seems like there’s some favoritism going on, and not just with profession balance, but with addressing community concerns regarding professions.

Still hanging on to my 50 bucks.

What about:

They fix cancel casting on axe auto to boost dps. They don’t do the same on mesmer greatsword even though its actually used ALOT and is very strong.

Kagamiku.9731:

Pretty much everyone here agrees engi > all
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Who-won-the-balance-changes/first

Aoe moa, blast on dodge, buffed elite skill that was already very strong, a buff to those ridiculous grenades that were far too strong already. List goes on.

They moved Incendiary Powder to GM, but I fail to see how they nerfed it: “Incendiary Powder: Your critical hits inflict 4s of burning. Burning you apply lasts 33% longer. This trait has a 10 second internal cooldown.”

And considering how much of a buff mesmers received, that’s saying something.

Incendiary power is dhuumfire on steroids lol

I said it before and will say it again. From the point of view of balancing, there was ZERO reason to spend all this effort on engi changes.

Cooldown reductions across the board, a whole new kit where literally every single skill is a field or a finisher and engis are the only ones who got a whole completely new slot (toolbar 5 skill). Looking at the state of the balance, it is VERY hard to explain it by anything else than bias.

this is 1 big BS , necro getiing nerfed every patch and watch other calesses jst getting buffed over and over . Necro got smt that is broken , insta nerf , it was with lich , with axe , now the downstate dmg ner and ofc i agree with that but lets be fair and do similar thing to othe rclasses , i feel like necro is second class citizen

Lordrosicky.5813:

JohnnyZero.5619:

I enjoy playing engi, but this honestly is disappointing to see. It really seems like there’s some favoritism going on, and not just with profession balance, but with addressing community concerns regarding professions.

Still hanging on to my 50 bucks.

What about:

They fix cancel casting on axe auto to boost dps. They don’t do the same on mesmer greatsword even though its actually used ALOT and is very strong.

Because it is overrated and doesn’t do nearly as much as people think. Try spamming auto on a semi-tanky build. They will die from air fire procs, not from the auto cancel.

Quadox.7834:

Lordrosicky.5813:

JohnnyZero.5619:

I enjoy playing engi, but this honestly is disappointing to see. It really seems like there’s some favoritism going on, and not just with profession balance, but with addressing community concerns regarding professions.

Still hanging on to my 50 bucks.

What about:

They fix cancel casting on axe auto to boost dps. They don’t do the same on mesmer greatsword even though its actually used ALOT and is very strong.

Because it is overrated and doesn’t do nearly as much as people think. Try spamming auto on a semi-tanky build. They will die from air fire procs, not from the auto cancel.

Whereas axe necro was tearing up the pvp scene and breaking the economy with frighteningly fast dungeon runs right?

Meanwhile in Warrior land, no designer ever posted, ever

lighter.2708:

Meanwhile in Warrior land, no designer ever posted, ever

Meanwhile in warrior land, mending was supposed to be turned into physical skill next patch. Naturally it wont be, spoiled engi kids took all resources leaving war, ranger, guard, necro with bad taste in mouth.

Yea engi got lots of changes which will really only give them more diversity. It won’t not make them the strongest prof once all changes are implemented.

Engi probably won’t be in a better spot within the new meta than they are right now. I would bet thief and mesmers are going be stronger and much more complained about than any other class.

skowcia.8257:

lighter.2708:

Meanwhile in Warrior land, no designer ever posted, ever

Meanwhile in warrior land, mending was supposed to be turned into physical skill next patch. Naturally it wont be, spoiled engi kids took all resources leaving war, ranger, guard, necro with bad taste in mouth.

In WvW they are the least wanted class in raids, and have been for three years, and when I say least wanted what I actually mean is unwanted.

In PvE they have been very average, and never highly desired.

And in PvP before celestial builds they were between a nice option and sub-par (though never terrible) and have the weakest zerker build options in the game, since celestial they have been a default pick just like bunker guards were for almost 2 years, thieves have been for the entire game, hambow/shoutbow have been, etc.

Certainly overall they have faired far worse in this game than warriors, guards, thieves & eles, but please don’t let reality get in the way of things.

zinkz.7045:

In WvW they are the least wanted class in raids, and have been for three years, and when I say least wanted what I actually mean is unwanted.

In PvE they have been very average, and never highly desired.

And in PvP before celestial builds they were between a nice option and sub-par (though never terrible) and have the weakest zerker build options in the game, since celestial they have been a default pick just like bunker guards were for almost 2 years, thieves have been for the entire game, hambow/shoutbow have been, etc.

Certainly overall they have faired far worse in this game than warriors, guards, thieves & eles, but please don’t let reality get in the way of things.

when i watched the t2 gvg finals a couple days ago, their screensaver content was gvg builds for each class. i was really interested in seeing what the engi build was gonna be, but there were only 7 builds. =(

however in pve, few really know how engi works cuz its kinda the land of bearbows… engi has never ever been bad, but its also never been widely understood, and engi is really easy to not play well. so its uncommon cuz of its high skill floor compared to say a warrior or ranger, where you just push 2 as often as possible to put out optimal damage. but i like to think the people i run group content with wouldnt trade me for some other class.

zinkz.7045:

slip

Engi was always strong, people just dindt know how to play it and in the end he ended up being op due to the amount of buffs he got.. I doubt many people rebember Teldo that played engi wrecking ppl on left and right back when engi was considered useless.

Its cool that devs too a bit more time to bring them up here and there, but they dindt nerfed him one bit (slick shoes, overcharged shot etc). Thats embarrassing.

Lets also not forget that devs officially deleted necro from the game. Useless in pve, useless in pvp, replaced by chromomancer in wvw. In general i dont even care about necro as i dont play one, but i feel sorry for people that mains him.

BTW I noticed that someone just started a thread on the engi forums raising the valid point mentioned above: the dev activity on the engi forum is staggering if you compare to say necros or rangers.

That thread was quickly locked with no explanation that I can see.