Guild Wars 2

Josh Davis.6015:

Ideally, all of our high impact skills should allow for counter-play via a clearly telegraphed attack animation.

I seriously dont understand the thought pattern behind a skill that hits anywhere 8k-10k, can be used every 4 seconds, has no animation and was given to probably the best roamer, disengager, stealth-spammy and spikers in the game…..

It baffles me….

Perhaps you can shed some light, end this, or hopefully fix it…

Fortus.6175:

Josh Davis.6015:

Ideally, all of our high impact skills should allow for counter-play via a clearly telegraphed attack animation.

I seriously dont understand the thought pattern behind a skill that hits anywhere 8k-10k, can be used every 4 seconds, has no animation and was given to probably the best roamer, disengager, stealth-spammy and spikers in the game…..

It baffles me….

are you really complaining about the worst class in spvp right now?

Brando.1374:

Fortus.6175:

Josh Davis.6015:

Ideally, all of our high impact skills should allow for counter-play via a clearly telegraphed attack animation.

I seriously dont understand the thought pattern behind a skill that hits anywhere 8k-10k, can be used every 4 seconds, has no animation and was given to probably the best roamer, disengager, stealth-spammy and spikers in the game…..

It baffles me….

are you really complaining about the worst class in spvp right now?

You kittenting me? Ele got nerfed while other classes got buffed. Try playing one right now, before it was bad but now it seems unplayable.

Well im not an expert ele like the player above… so im sure he will have firm arguments to state that ele is worse than before.

But to me, the global attunement cooldown recharge seems like a buff and on the other hand im liking the gameplay of some elementalists i get paired sometimes.
Although its true that if i pay a little of attention ill crush any with ranger

And….here we go again.

Brando.1374:

Fortus.6175:

Josh Davis.6015:

Ideally, all of our high impact skills should allow for counter-play via a clearly telegraphed attack animation.

I seriously dont understand the thought pattern behind a skill that hits anywhere 8k-10k, can be used every 4 seconds, has no animation and was given to probably the best roamer, disengager, stealth-spammy and spikers in the game…..

It baffles me….

are you really complaining about the worst class in spvp right now?

well, someone here hasnt played ele lately. Furthermore, someone here, namely, you, havent seen who won the latest tournament (since you didnt bother to look it up before, i doubt you will now do it, so here it is….get ready for it: …..Thief!)

Im sorry, but what you just said is straight up bullpuppy, and if by any chance you actually believe it, then you need to drop the easiest class to play out there, because it defintiely isnt working out for you.

@Topic; Anyways, for the sake of balance, and simply put in the words of a Dev;

Where is the animation? Where is the counterplay to backstab [Stealth in general]? Where is the 40+ CD for a skill such as that one? Why can it be used every 4 seconds? Why was it given to the class that has access to [still] perma stealth?

It truly, TRULY baffles me…..

Backstab does not hit 8-10k. Stop lying and stop posting these ridiculous threads.

Also, the Ele in my team 2v1s at far all day while we cap everything else and win teamfight, clearly you guys are doing something wrong if you think they’re in a terrible spot right now, lol.

Fortus.6175:

Josh Davis.6015:

Ideally, all of our high impact skills should allow for counter-play via a clearly telegraphed attack animation.

I seriously dont understand the thought pattern behind a skill that hits anywhere 8k-10k, can be used every 4 seconds, has no animation and was given to probably the best roamer, disengager, stealth-spammy and spikers in the game…..

It baffles me….

Ok ok ok…i thought i was not going to see a thief op qq topic anymore after this patch that pretty much killed thieves sending them from a meh spot straight to last tier position since very few good thieves around and with return cast time they just lost a lot of the survivability they needed in order to survive into condition\bunker spam meta, but here we are, you ppl have literally no clue…at all..still complining about backstab because some random d\p killed you in hotjoin? Are you kittening serious? Just go full zerker on war and go for a crit eviscerate on someone…see what happens..

Now please stop this nonsense whining already…you look really ridicolous, btw, when played good, ele is way better than thief atm…no dubt

Oh and just for the record i don’t main thief. I stopped playing thief months and months ago so i’m talking from a “fighting vs them” point of view..and it’s the class that gives me less worries in tpvp…with both mesmer (shatter) and guardian

Incurafy.6329:

Backstab does not hit 8-10k. Stop lying and stop posting these ridiculous threads.

Also, the Ele in my team 2v1s at far all day while we cap everything else and win teamfight, clearly you guys are doing something wrong if you think they’re in a terrible spot right now, lol.

oh , yes it does, yes it does! I have felt it on my own toon, and the fact that you cant get those numbers tells a lot about your skills…. Dunno, but the thief in my team cap everything and wins teamfights, clearly you are doing something wrong if you think they’re in a terrible spot right now.

See? It can go both ways…. so lets stop it with these arguments. It is a fact that backstabs hit 10k in PvP, next one I will make sure to screenshot if needed.

Fortus.6175:

Incurafy.6329:

Backstab does not hit 8-10k. Stop lying and stop posting these ridiculous threads.

Also, the Ele in my team 2v1s at far all day while we cap everything else and win teamfight, clearly you guys are doing something wrong if you think they’re in a terrible spot right now, lol.

oh , yes it does, yes it does! I have felt it on my own toon, and the fact that you cant get those numbers tells a lot about your skills…. Dunno, but the thief in my team cap everything and wins teamfights, clearly you are doing something wrong if you think they’re in a terrible spot right now.

See? It can go both ways…. so lets stop it with these arguments. It is a fact that backstabs hit 10k in PvP, next one I will make sure to screenshot if needed.

Are you kittening serious? It’s a fact that Backstab doesn’t hit more than about 6k on most builds, maybe with the exception of a glassy Ele or Mesmer but that’s what happens when glass fights glass. You literally have no idea what you’re talking about and it’s ridiculous that you feel the need to post these threads every week with the same blatant lies despite being told dozens of times by now how to counter stealth and Backstab.

And no, it doesn’t go both ways, I actually have a team for PvP, and I’m actually speaking from experience. Thieves aren’t blatantly underpowered right now, but there’s not much besides mobility giving teams a reason to comp with them, and even then another class can potentially do better.

I don’t even know why I posted on this thread. L2P and stop lying.

EDIT: Also, numbers in this game are based on the behind the scenes math damage calculations, not player skill. Even more evidence that you’re completely clueless.

Lets assume that backstabs hit 7k for the most part, or 8k, maybe 7.5k, middle ground, which is what I get hit by the most with my 2k toughness .

Base health 11k, 7.5k damage; 7.5/10 * 100 = 75% of my health for cleric, every 4 seconds.

With soldier 15k health, 7.5k = 50% of my health, every 4 seconds.

Im sorry, but those numbers speak for themselves. Perhaps it wont help win games, but it is extremely annoying adn toxic for the game.

Backstab is poorly telegraphed, there’s no denying it.

But it’s hardly problematic in sPvP. I honestly don’t remember the last time I was actually hit by Backstab.

And even then it probably didn’t hit for more than 7k.

Hits above 7k require the target to be a glass cannon and the Thief to spec deep into Deadly Arts, which for all intents and purposes, is a pretty kittenty tree.

I’m fine with the damage from backstab, just find it pretty dumb that when you block/invul/dodge them it doesn’t reveal them.

Dee Jay.2460:

Backstab is poorly telegraphed, there’s no denying it.

Actually it has a fairly good telegraph, if you see a dagger wielding thief that’s going after you enter stealth, you know what to expect and can prepare accordingly.

We can’t just “assume” that Backstab hits for 7-8k, because that’s not true. The damage formula is this:

Damage = Weapon strength * Power * Skill coefficient / Armor

If we are to use your 2,000 toughness in this equation, this Thief build wouldn’t hit anywhere near the numbers that you’re pulling out of thin air. I’d show you the damage calculation, but I already know that you’d dismiss it as hogwash. If you want to surprise me by doing the math yourself, then go ahead.

screenshots or didn’t happen
- thieves don’t have any protection, no blocks, invul etc.
- thieves sustain dmg is kind of lol
- thieves team utility starts and ends at refuge
- real backstab (crit) hits for 5k in average (on light armor) and costs 6-8 initiative (depending on build) which is 6-8 sec CD, that if it actually lands and doesn’t get blinded, dodged, hit front, gets pet blocked etc.

why am i biting this cake?

Steal/backstab has almost no counterplay .. :/
For an example from my class;
Mirror images has almost no counterplay :/

These skills are bad for the game imho.. :/

Guess what?

The thief (assassin) class is supposed to be the best at killing other bursty targets. That’s its job. It doesn’t have the sustain to deal with hybrids or even bunkers usually.

Guess what?

[img]https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/27538/gw402b.jpg[/img]

The thief blablabla worst class atm blablabla ….

PS: The screenshot is legit, call lier someone else.

Fortus.6175:

It is a fact that backstabs hit 10k in PvP, next one I will make sure to screenshot if needed.

Is it? Weird, they always seems to do 0 against me….

Bsgapollo.5364:

I’m fine with the damage from backstab, just find it pretty dumb that when you block/invul/dodge them it doesn’t reveal them.

You can tell where the thief is when you block/invul/dodge backstab cause it says “block” (or whatever else) in the direction that they hit you from and obviously they are in melee range. I’ve killed loads of thieves through this mechanic alone so personally I think there’s much more punishment for getting backstab blocked the way it is.

Luke.4562:

Guess what?

[img]https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/27538/gw402b.jpg[/img]

Try posting a relevant screenshot. Since mug crit, its obvious that this was from before it got nerfed. Hell, it could be pre Assassin’s signet nerf too.

I don’t get why you try to lie/twist the truth to further your argument.

Luke.4562:

Guess what?

[img]https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/27538/gw402b.jpg[/img]

The thief blablabla worst class atm blablabla ….

PS: The screenshot is legit, call lier someone else.

how old is this screenshot…

old or not, backstab has received no changes in amount of damage since release, or if it has it hasnt been enough.

How to counter backstab: dodge/block/blind/leap away whenever thief goes stealth. You can even just spin your character around in circles to counter BS (if they don’t hit your back it does like no dmg). Honestly; it used to crit for 15k-20k, and it was like that for around half the game’s release. Just be glad that it doesn’t 1 shot you anymore (I complained more than anyone on the forums to get that kitten changed back in the day).
PS; it’s a glass build, you should be able to 2 shot them anywase. If you can’t connect, you’re getting outplayed.

@Fortus, it’s useless discussing, Developers didn’t made something useful about it since release, in their game Thieves gonna oneshot, bishot, trishot you anyway, and thief users won’t admit its facerollOP bringing water to their own watermill.
They’re worse than phiranas, even if you politely ask some good discussion they are going to strip the flesh off you alive.
Just avoid, it’s a battle lost since the beginning.

Spamming dodgerolls when thieves gonna go in stealth? rofl.

Fortus.6175:

old or not, backstab has received no changes in amount of damage since release, or if it has it hasnt been enough.

Because it doesn’t need them?

pliz nerf Kappa

Luke.4562:

@Fortus, it’s useless discussing, Developers didn’t made something useful about it since release, in their game Thieves gonna oneshot, bishot, trishot you anyway, and thief users won’t admit its facerollOP bringing water to their own watermill.
They’re worse than phiranas, even if you politely ask some good discussion they are going to strip the flesh off you alive.
Just avoid, it’s a battle lost since the beginning.

Spamming dodgerolls when thieves gonna go in stealth? rofl.

don’t need to spam anything, its a 1-2-dodge like fighting alpha >.> fairly easy, numbers you’re quoting you must be glass or calling yourself hybrid when you’re still glass. Thief is generally a 1-chance gimmick class against any competent players relying on their elite to compliment their burst, either thieve’s guild or basilisk venom to solidify a backstab and heartseeker before you can move. I play it for lols because it kills bad players so easily, but against someone competent takes lots of work and 1 slip up and you lose. Now the most annoying thing abouts thieves is when they group backstab, generally 3+ is deadly fighting 2 is annoying but 3, you’re screwed if they time everything right.

My first question/test when playing a new build is whether or not it can survive a thief. Still, 7-8k backstabs, if not the norm, occur often enough to be annoying; couple that with 8k worth of noobseeker (my guardian,not pure glass, but in that direction ate that from 1 thief, 40% health to insta downed) and you have a class that can only be balanced cause….game mode? At least that’s the argument, I don’t buy it honestly. They could make a thief evaporate if stepping into an ele’s healing breeze and the class still woudn’t be balanced.

Don’t know why nerf a class further when its already too hard to play Thief. Reminds me when ANET incompetently nerfed Frenzy without compensations 7 months ago when Warrior was already hard to play. Seriously that was a time where the developers deserved to be fired for being incompetent garbage, no offense to the devs.

Fortus.6175:

Incurafy.6329:

Backstab does not hit 8-10k. Stop lying and stop posting these ridiculous threads.

Also, the Ele in my team 2v1s at far all day while we cap everything else and win teamfight, clearly you guys are doing something wrong if you think they’re in a terrible spot right now, lol.

oh , yes it does, yes it does! I have felt it on my own toon, and the fact that you cant get those numbers tells a lot about your skills…. Dunno, but the thief in my team cap everything and wins teamfights, clearly you are doing something wrong if you think they’re in a terrible spot right now.

See? It can go both ways…. so lets stop it with these arguments. It is a fact that backstabs hit 10k in PvP, next one I will make sure to screenshot if needed.

Lol, whining about thieves and pointing out at someone else’s skill.

Hello everyone
As this thread has turned into a very unhealthy conversation, we have decided to lock it. Thank you for your understanding.