Guild Wars 2

So I got curious when I saw those auto-attacks from Druids claiming that all their damage come from pet, or that they can’t do a thing without smokescale or bristleback. What about an auto-attack duel, no sigils against marauder staff elementalist?

So here is a video showing an auto-attack fight of a Mender Amulet Staff Druid ( 1050 power, 1050 healing power, 560 precision, 560 vitality) against a Marauder Amulet Staff Elementalist.

http://www.twitch.tv/aleriedespins/v/46279093

TL;DR. The Druid wins.

Wow, not even close either with druid still having 25% of his health left. To me it demonstrates how weak ele staff auto attacks are even in quite an offensive gear set.

Druid Staff auto with quickness can do more than Rapid Fire in the same time peroid. GG

This is just as disingenuous as your last test…

All you’re proving is that Elementalist auto-attacks sucks :L

It’s been proven a while back that Druid Staff is actually good damage and has better DPS than the other Ranger weapons. Whether it’s good enough for killing in PvP is debatable.

WOW, so many problems with this one.

1)This comparison is even more idiotic than the S&R vs portal thread.

2)Druids say pets are the source for spike damage, not for damage, you cant kill anyone by zapping them with staff AA, every class can sustain that damage.

3) He had healing from staff + self regen+ VC all with 1000 healing power and healing bonus from NM(he was ticking for like 200-400), also 2 procs of 5 sec protection. You were doing much more damage.

4)For druid using staff, the AA is the only source of damage(from this spesific weapon), Ele got all the fire weapon skills and most of the air weapon skills to do both momentum and spike damage.

To me this demonstrates the blatant propaganda being spread by Alekt.5803.

For one: the druid is using a menders, has a trait that ends up providing 14s of protection over the 24s “fight” and 7s of regen each healing for about 266 hp/s because the druid is wearing a mender’s.

Second: if a skill is available then using a skill is almost ALWAYS better than autoattacking in PvP – unless you are a war, melee ranger, or revenant using quickness. When we look at the skills staff elementalist has, we find that every single skill that is meant for dealing damage has higher base damage and power scaling than druid staff’ skills (besides flame burst, because this applies 1600 base burning damage and has a power coefficient of 0.1 as a consequence).

Conclusion: this isn’t a fair test in the slightest because of the protection up time and high hp generation from the regen proccing on the druid. Nor does it capture the truth that if these 2 actually used their skills it would probably result in the ele slaughtering the druid, without the druid using his/her pet, given the damage modifiers on ele. Arguably since it is AoE the ele could miss more skills than the druid however, if someone else was nearby the druid and the elementalist’s skills landed his/her damage would double as the AoE is now hitting two targets. In the contrary situation a person standing near the ele while the druid is untacking will most likely go unharmed given the druids overall lack of AoE damage. Therefore, I must conclude marauder ele is vastly superior to a staff druid without his/her pet. Until such time as more details are provided by the OP I cannot conclude otherwise.

Alekt.5803:

So I got curious when I saw those auto-attacks from Druids claiming that all their damage come from pet, or that they can’t do a thing without smokescale or bristleback. What about an auto-attack duel, no sigils against marauder staff elementalist?

So here is a video showing an auto-attack fight of a Mender Amulet Staff Druid ( 1050 power, 1050 healing power, 560 precision, 560 vitality) against a Marauder Amulet Staff Elementalist.

http://www.twitch.tv/aleriedespins/v/46279093

TL;DR. The Druid wins.

How many more indirect anti ranger threads am I going to see from you? It’s just starting to get really pathetic. You sound someone who is whining about every aspect.
Ele is still strong.

These are the threads you currently posted:

• Bristleback Damage
• Smokescale Damage
• Search And Rescue
• Protect Me (Why everything annoying is packaged with ranger)
• Now this

Seriously dude, ele has been in the meta for too long, while ranger after the spirit nerf has been in decline for a very long time, rangers waited patiently for that. You are good player dude but sorry to say you sound like a child whining.

@Topic

You are seriously comparing A ranger staff who has only 1 skill that is highly damaging. 4/5 skills are healing and supportive. Really?

And again you are comparing a weapon that requires an elite trait line just to use it?

StickerHappy.8052:

Alekt.5803:

So I got curious when I saw those auto-attacks from Druids claiming that all their damage come from pet, or that they can’t do a thing without smokescale or bristleback. What about an auto-attack duel, no sigils against marauder staff elementalist?

So here is a video showing an auto-attack fight of a Mender Amulet Staff Druid ( 1050 power, 1050 healing power, 560 precision, 560 vitality) against a Marauder Amulet Staff Elementalist.

http://www.twitch.tv/aleriedespins/v/46279093

TL;DR. The Druid wins.

How many more indirect anti ranger threads am I going to see from you? It’s just starting to get really pathetic. You sound someone who is whining about every aspect.
Ele is still strong.

These are the threads you currently posted:

• Bristleback Damage
• Smokescale Damage
• Search And Rescue
• Protect Me (Why everything annoying is packaged with ranger)
• Now this

Seriously dude, ele has been in the meta for too long, while ranger after the spirit nerf has been in decline for a very long time, rangers waited patiently for that. You are good player dude but sorry to say you sound like a child whining.

@Topic

You are seriously comparing A ranger staff who has only 1 skill that is highly damaging. 4/5 skills are healing and supportive. Really?

And again you are comparing a weapon that requires an elite trait line just to use it?

This is how he apparently likes to spend his time.
He complained endlessly about Revenant. Now the new hip thing to complain about is Druid and Reaper, so he’ll endlessly complain about it using flawed tests and comparisons (and sprinkle in some Rev hate because that’s always fun; Ele players in particular seem extra salty).

Eurantien.4632:

To me this demonstrates the blatant propaganda being spread by Alekt.5803.

For one: the druid is using a menders, has a trait that ends up providing 14s of protection over the 24s “fight” and 7s of regen each healing for about 266 hp/s because the druid is wearing a mender’s.

Second: if a skill is available then using a skill is almost ALWAYS better than autoattacking in PvP – unless you are a war, melee ranger, or revenant using quickness. When we look at the skills staff elementalist has, we find that every single skill that is meant for dealing damage has higher base damage and power scaling than druid staff’ skills (besides flame burst, because this applies 1600 base burning damage and has a power coefficient of 0.1 as a consequence).

Conclusion: this isn’t a fair test in the slightest because of the protection up time and high hp generation from the regen proccing on the druid. Nor does it capture the truth that if these 2 actually used their skills it would probably result in the ele slaughtering the druid, without the druid using his/her pet, given the damage modifiers on ele. Arguably since it is AoE the ele could miss more skills than the druid however, if someone else was nearby the druid and the elementalist’s skills landed his/her damage would double as the AoE is now hitting two targets. In the contrary situation a person standing near the ele while the druid is untacking will most likely go unharmed given the druids overall lack of AoE damage. Therefore, I must conclude marauder ele is vastly superior to a staff druid without his/her pet. Until such time as more details are provided by the OP I cannot conclude otherwise.

I still had two instances of frost aura granting regen and fury and a flat heal of 800. Maybe it would have been slightly in the elementalist favor. But, we’re talking about a pet class here.

If someone asks me to add Lava Font, I have a video with it, and the ranger would side step them, which caused the fireball to miss. No damage were added as a result.

StickerHappy.8052:

Alekt.5803:

So I got curious when I saw those auto-attacks from Druids claiming that all their damage come from pet, or that they can’t do a thing without smokescale or bristleback. What about an auto-attack duel, no sigils against marauder staff elementalist?

So here is a video showing an auto-attack fight of a Mender Amulet Staff Druid ( 1050 power, 1050 healing power, 560 precision, 560 vitality) against a Marauder Amulet Staff Elementalist.

http://www.twitch.tv/aleriedespins/v/46279093

TL;DR. The Druid wins.

How many more indirect anti ranger threads am I going to see from you? It’s just starting to get really pathetic. You sound someone who is whining about every aspect.
Ele is still strong.

These are the threads you currently posted:

• Bristleback Damage
• Smokescale Damage
• Search And Rescue
• Protect Me (Why everything annoying is packaged with ranger)
• Now this

Seriously dude, ele has been in the meta for too long, while ranger after the spirit nerf has been in decline for a very long time, rangers waited patiently for that. You are good player dude but sorry to say you sound like a child whining.

@Topic

You are seriously comparing A ranger staff who has only 1 skill that is highly damaging. 4/5 skills are healing and supportive. Really?

And again you are comparing a weapon that requires an elite trait line just to use it?

Add to the list;

-Unblockable smokescale
-35k hp bristleback
-Ancient Seeds

But if you could hear me talking, I am mainly laughing out loud as I type.
Warhorn is unlocked with the specialization; I don’t see it being good.

StickerHappy.8052:

Seriously dude, ele has been in the meta for too long

You probably know already that I have more hate toward the elementalist class.

Elementalists are a stance dance class. Their auto attacks are incredibly weak to compensate for their much larger number of other attacks.

To limit a profession that’s entire mechanic revolves around their sheer variety of attacks by making them only use one is even more detrimental than making a profession that gets a large chunk of it’s damage from the pet use only it’s auto.

StickerHappy.8052:

You are seriously comparing A ranger staff who has only 1 skill that is highly damaging. 4/5 skills are healing and supportive. Really?

ele not using other skills, ranger not using pet
seems fair to me, if not biased in favor of the ele given how broken the pets are

an animation tell buff would be better then a damage nerf in this case.

Alekt.5803:

I still had two instances of frost aura granting regen and fury and a flat heal of 800. Maybe it would have been slightly in the elementalist favor. But, we’re talking about a pet class here.

If someone asks me to add Lava Font, I have a video with it, and the ranger would side step them, which caused the fireball to miss. No damage were added as a result.

Fighting off point, aka WvW, should not be balanced around. If this game wishes to be “esport” balance should be around top tier, PvE should be balanced around NPC design and mechanics, and WvW shouldn’t be the focus of balance because of 50 v 50 isn’t something manageable to be balanced around. Therefore, fighting off point isn’t an arguable point of contention to determine what is OP and what is not. In a node fight lava font becomes severely more effective given your enemy is more likely to stay in a small radius around it. Also, if you are skilled you can do things like immob the druid into your lava font, knock them into a wall, or put it in front of their path as they round a corner of LoS so they take multiple ticks from the lava font. Given the counterplay of bristelback the only thing I could say you have an argument for is that unrelenting assault is too strong, not just smokescale.

Eurantien.4632:

Alekt.5803:

I still had two instances of frost aura granting regen and fury and a flat heal of 800. Maybe it would have been slightly in the elementalist favor. But, we’re talking about a pet class here.

If someone asks me to add Lava Font, I have a video with it, and the ranger would side step them, which caused the fireball to miss. No damage were added as a result.

Fighting off point, aka WvW, should not be balanced around. If this game wishes to be “esport” balance should be around top tier, PvE should be balanced around NPC design and mechanics, and WvW shouldn’t be the focus of balance because of 50 v 50 isn’t something manageable to be balanced around. Therefore, fighting off point isn’t an arguable point of contention to determine what is OP and what is not. In a node fight lava font becomes severely more effective given your enemy is more likely to stay in a small radius around it. Also, if you are skilled you can do things like immob the druid into your lava font, knock them into a wall, or put it in front of their path as they round a corner of LoS so they take multiple ticks from the lava font. Given the counterplay of bristelback the only thing I could say you have an argument for is that unrelenting assault is too strong, not just smokescale.

Lava Font has a crippling delay before landing the first tick. I think every elementalists agree that this delay needs to be removed. As for wall; it’s tricky with Rampage as One; I know it has this cooldown, but 13 sec of stability really becomes an issue when you rely on a static field to land combo. As for immobilize, it is limited to Shockwave, which has a nightmarish aftercast and poor hit-chance on a 30 seconds cooldown. No cripple on the weapon set, only a chill field on a 40 seconds cooldown.

Yes. On-point may be better, but I am certainly not standing on point, nor am I standing outside of the point because we both saw the same thing: I completely lose in the ranged fight (druid had no pet helping, and he did not even have a damaging amulet), and absolutely not win in the close-quarter.

Eurantien.4632:

unrelenting assault is too strong, not just smokescale.

I’ve felt this way sometimes, but then I get constantly reminded of its short-comings.

When you land every hit and it only does ~5k with a max damage build (Sword 3 is now a very noticeable DPS loss instead of a marginal gain), when someone is smart and they drag you into a death zone, or your opponent just happens to have other possible targets nearby which completely destroys all your damage and is totally out of your control, or it fails because they walked/dodged out of range, or it fails because there’s a wall, or on really rare occasions it gets you stuck in random objects

I really don’t care if Sword receives a damage nerf on Sword 2/3 as long as they become far less frustrating to use and they do something to not reduce the DPS in PvE (like that awesome split balancing). Having your damage spread out like that without having any control over it is incredibly frustrating and makes fighting more than one enemy really aggravating and I bet the 1v1 damage isn’t super fun to be a victim of.

Then again, a power Rev stands almost no chance against Condi builds, so it needs some sort of compensation. I realize a lot of people dislike the damage, but you really can’t sit around; Conditions (and CC if you’re not running Ret + Herald) are so ridiculously punishing that you need to kill quick or anyone that happens to have a lot of conditions (or high spike damage/boon strips when against Condi Rev) is a huge threat that can’t be sustained through.

Alekt.5803:

Eurantien.4632:

Alekt.5803:

I still had two instances of frost aura granting regen and fury and a flat heal of 800. Maybe it would have been slightly in the elementalist favor. But, we’re talking about a pet class here.

If someone asks me to add Lava Font, I have a video with it, and the ranger would side step them, which caused the fireball to miss. No damage were added as a result.

Fighting off point, aka WvW, should not be balanced around. If this game wishes to be “esport” balance should be around top tier, PvE should be balanced around NPC design and mechanics, and WvW shouldn’t be the focus of balance because of 50 v 50 isn’t something manageable to be balanced around. Therefore, fighting off point isn’t an arguable point of contention to determine what is OP and what is not. In a node fight lava font becomes severely more effective given your enemy is more likely to stay in a small radius around it. Also, if you are skilled you can do things like immob the druid into your lava font, knock them into a wall, or put it in front of their path as they round a corner of LoS so they take multiple ticks from the lava font. Given the counterplay of bristelback the only thing I could say you have an argument for is that unrelenting assault is too strong, not just smokescale.

Lava Font has a crippling delay before landing the first tick. I think every elementalists agree that this delay needs to be removed. As for wall; it’s tricky with Rampage as One; I know it has this cooldown, but 13 sec of stability really becomes an issue when you rely on a static field to land combo. As for immobilize, it is limited to Shockwave, which has a nightmarish aftercast and poor hit-chance on a 30 seconds cooldown. No cripple on the weapon set, only a chill field on a 40 seconds cooldown.

Yes. On-point may be better, but I am certainly not standing on point, nor am I standing outside of the point because we both saw the same thing: I completely lose in the ranged fight (druid had no pet helping, and he did not even have a damaging amulet), and absolutely not win in the close-quarter.

It’s almost as-if Ele Staff isn’t a skirmishing weapon. Weird, huh?

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Eurantien.4632:

Alekt.5803:

I still had two instances of frost aura granting regen and fury and a flat heal of 800. Maybe it would have been slightly in the elementalist favor. But, we’re talking about a pet class here.

If someone asks me to add Lava Font, I have a video with it, and the ranger would side step them, which caused the fireball to miss. No damage were added as a result.

Fighting off point, aka WvW, should not be balanced around. If this game wishes to be “esport” balance should be around top tier, PvE should be balanced around NPC design and mechanics, and WvW shouldn’t be the focus of balance because of 50 v 50 isn’t something manageable to be balanced around. Therefore, fighting off point isn’t an arguable point of contention to determine what is OP and what is not. In a node fight lava font becomes severely more effective given your enemy is more likely to stay in a small radius around it. Also, if you are skilled you can do things like immob the druid into your lava font, knock them into a wall, or put it in front of their path as they round a corner of LoS so they take multiple ticks from the lava font. Given the counterplay of bristelback the only thing I could say you have an argument for is that unrelenting assault is too strong, not just smokescale.

Lava Font has a crippling delay before landing the first tick. I think every elementalists agree that this delay needs to be removed. As for wall; it’s tricky with Rampage as One; I know it has this cooldown, but 13 sec of stability really becomes an issue when you rely on a static field to land combo. As for immobilize, it is limited to Shockwave, which has a nightmarish aftercast and poor hit-chance on a 30 seconds cooldown. No cripple on the weapon set, only a chill field on a 40 seconds cooldown.

Yes. On-point may be better, but I am certainly not standing on point, nor am I standing outside of the point because we both saw the same thing: I completely lose in the ranged fight (druid had no pet helping, and he did not even have a damaging amulet), and absolutely not win in the close-quarter.

It’s almost as-if Ele Staff isn’t a skirmishing weapon. Weird, huh?

Not support either. It does not work anymore.

It’s considered “support” because the offensive side is clunky and weak. If you don’t mind, I could show you with some friendly duel.

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Eurantien.4632:

Alekt.5803:

I still had two instances of frost aura granting regen and fury and a flat heal of 800. Maybe it would have been slightly in the elementalist favor. But, we’re talking about a pet class here.

If someone asks me to add Lava Font, I have a video with it, and the ranger would side step them, which caused the fireball to miss. No damage were added as a result.

Fighting off point, aka WvW, should not be balanced around. If this game wishes to be “esport” balance should be around top tier, PvE should be balanced around NPC design and mechanics, and WvW shouldn’t be the focus of balance because of 50 v 50 isn’t something manageable to be balanced around. Therefore, fighting off point isn’t an arguable point of contention to determine what is OP and what is not. In a node fight lava font becomes severely more effective given your enemy is more likely to stay in a small radius around it. Also, if you are skilled you can do things like immob the druid into your lava font, knock them into a wall, or put it in front of their path as they round a corner of LoS so they take multiple ticks from the lava font. Given the counterplay of bristelback the only thing I could say you have an argument for is that unrelenting assault is too strong, not just smokescale.

Lava Font has a crippling delay before landing the first tick. I think every elementalists agree that this delay needs to be removed. As for wall; it’s tricky with Rampage as One; I know it has this cooldown, but 13 sec of stability really becomes an issue when you rely on a static field to land combo. As for immobilize, it is limited to Shockwave, which has a nightmarish aftercast and poor hit-chance on a 30 seconds cooldown. No cripple on the weapon set, only a chill field on a 40 seconds cooldown.

Yes. On-point may be better, but I am certainly not standing on point, nor am I standing outside of the point because we both saw the same thing: I completely lose in the ranged fight (druid had no pet helping, and he did not even have a damaging amulet), and absolutely not win in the close-quarter.

It’s almost as-if Ele Staff isn’t a skirmishing weapon. Weird, huh?

Not support either. It does not work anymore.

It’s considered “support” because the offensive side is clunky and weak.

The weapon hasn’t really seen any updates in a long time.
It’s still usable as a backline weapon and in PvE to do almost anything.

Some weapons just wont be useful for everything. Even Ele needs to accept that.

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Eurantien.4632:

Alekt.5803:

I still had two instances of frost aura granting regen and fury and a flat heal of 800. Maybe it would have been slightly in the elementalist favor. But, we’re talking about a pet class here.

If someone asks me to add Lava Font, I have a video with it, and the ranger would side step them, which caused the fireball to miss. No damage were added as a result.

Fighting off point, aka WvW, should not be balanced around. If this game wishes to be “esport” balance should be around top tier, PvE should be balanced around NPC design and mechanics, and WvW shouldn’t be the focus of balance because of 50 v 50 isn’t something manageable to be balanced around. Therefore, fighting off point isn’t an arguable point of contention to determine what is OP and what is not. In a node fight lava font becomes severely more effective given your enemy is more likely to stay in a small radius around it. Also, if you are skilled you can do things like immob the druid into your lava font, knock them into a wall, or put it in front of their path as they round a corner of LoS so they take multiple ticks from the lava font. Given the counterplay of bristelback the only thing I could say you have an argument for is that unrelenting assault is too strong, not just smokescale.

Lava Font has a crippling delay before landing the first tick. I think every elementalists agree that this delay needs to be removed. As for wall; it’s tricky with Rampage as One; I know it has this cooldown, but 13 sec of stability really becomes an issue when you rely on a static field to land combo. As for immobilize, it is limited to Shockwave, which has a nightmarish aftercast and poor hit-chance on a 30 seconds cooldown. No cripple on the weapon set, only a chill field on a 40 seconds cooldown.

Yes. On-point may be better, but I am certainly not standing on point, nor am I standing outside of the point because we both saw the same thing: I completely lose in the ranged fight (druid had no pet helping, and he did not even have a damaging amulet), and absolutely not win in the close-quarter.

It’s almost as-if Ele Staff isn’t a skirmishing weapon. Weird, huh?

Not support either. It does not work anymore.

It’s considered “support” because the offensive side is clunky and weak.

The weapon hasn’t really seen any updates in a long time.
It’s still usable as a backline weapon and in PvE to do almost anything.

Some weapons just wont be useful for everything. Even Ele needs to accept that.

Jack of no trade; master of none.

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Eurantien.4632:

Alekt.5803:

I still had two instances of frost aura granting regen and fury and a flat heal of 800. Maybe it would have been slightly in the elementalist favor. But, we’re talking about a pet class here.

If someone asks me to add Lava Font, I have a video with it, and the ranger would side step them, which caused the fireball to miss. No damage were added as a result.

Fighting off point, aka WvW, should not be balanced around. If this game wishes to be “esport” balance should be around top tier, PvE should be balanced around NPC design and mechanics, and WvW shouldn’t be the focus of balance because of 50 v 50 isn’t something manageable to be balanced around. Therefore, fighting off point isn’t an arguable point of contention to determine what is OP and what is not. In a node fight lava font becomes severely more effective given your enemy is more likely to stay in a small radius around it. Also, if you are skilled you can do things like immob the druid into your lava font, knock them into a wall, or put it in front of their path as they round a corner of LoS so they take multiple ticks from the lava font. Given the counterplay of bristelback the only thing I could say you have an argument for is that unrelenting assault is too strong, not just smokescale.

Lava Font has a crippling delay before landing the first tick. I think every elementalists agree that this delay needs to be removed. As for wall; it’s tricky with Rampage as One; I know it has this cooldown, but 13 sec of stability really becomes an issue when you rely on a static field to land combo. As for immobilize, it is limited to Shockwave, which has a nightmarish aftercast and poor hit-chance on a 30 seconds cooldown. No cripple on the weapon set, only a chill field on a 40 seconds cooldown.

Yes. On-point may be better, but I am certainly not standing on point, nor am I standing outside of the point because we both saw the same thing: I completely lose in the ranged fight (druid had no pet helping, and he did not even have a damaging amulet), and absolutely not win in the close-quarter.

It’s almost as-if Ele Staff isn’t a skirmishing weapon. Weird, huh?

Not support either. It does not work anymore.

It’s considered “support” because the offensive side is clunky and weak.

The weapon hasn’t really seen any updates in a long time.
It’s still usable as a backline weapon and in PvE to do almost anything.

Some weapons just wont be useful for everything. Even Ele needs to accept that.

Jack of no trade; master of none.

“Demon stance focuses on conditions, with a twist. Let’s call it condition manipulation. Instead of dealing with conditions in the traditional sense—mostly by removing them— your approach to conditions as a revenant is all about accumulating them in order to empower your attacks. The more conditions you have, the stronger and more impactful your demon legend skills will become”

Things change :L

*yea, yea, we have Replenishing Despair and Bolstered Anguish, but you know what I mean

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Eurantien.4632:

Alekt.5803:

I still had two instances of frost aura granting regen and fury and a flat heal of 800. Maybe it would have been slightly in the elementalist favor. But, we’re talking about a pet class here.

If someone asks me to add Lava Font, I have a video with it, and the ranger would side step them, which caused the fireball to miss. No damage were added as a result.

Fighting off point, aka WvW, should not be balanced around. If this game wishes to be “esport” balance should be around top tier, PvE should be balanced around NPC design and mechanics, and WvW shouldn’t be the focus of balance because of 50 v 50 isn’t something manageable to be balanced around. Therefore, fighting off point isn’t an arguable point of contention to determine what is OP and what is not. In a node fight lava font becomes severely more effective given your enemy is more likely to stay in a small radius around it. Also, if you are skilled you can do things like immob the druid into your lava font, knock them into a wall, or put it in front of their path as they round a corner of LoS so they take multiple ticks from the lava font. Given the counterplay of bristelback the only thing I could say you have an argument for is that unrelenting assault is too strong, not just smokescale.

Lava Font has a crippling delay before landing the first tick. I think every elementalists agree that this delay needs to be removed. As for wall; it’s tricky with Rampage as One; I know it has this cooldown, but 13 sec of stability really becomes an issue when you rely on a static field to land combo. As for immobilize, it is limited to Shockwave, which has a nightmarish aftercast and poor hit-chance on a 30 seconds cooldown. No cripple on the weapon set, only a chill field on a 40 seconds cooldown.

Yes. On-point may be better, but I am certainly not standing on point, nor am I standing outside of the point because we both saw the same thing: I completely lose in the ranged fight (druid had no pet helping, and he did not even have a damaging amulet), and absolutely not win in the close-quarter.

It’s almost as-if Ele Staff isn’t a skirmishing weapon. Weird, huh?

Not support either. It does not work anymore.

It’s considered “support” because the offensive side is clunky and weak.

The weapon hasn’t really seen any updates in a long time.
It’s still usable as a backline weapon and in PvE to do almost anything.

Some weapons just wont be useful for everything. Even Ele needs to accept that.

Jack of no trade; master of none.

“Demon stance focuses on conditions, with a twist. Let’s call it condition manipulation. Instead of dealing with conditions in the traditional sense—mostly by removing them— your approach to conditions as a revenant is all about accumulating them in order to empower your attacks. The more conditions you have, the stronger and more impactful your demon legend skills will become”

Things change :L

*yea, yea, we have Replenishing Despair and Bolstered Anguish, but you know what I mean

If we’re going to talk about the non-viable state of Ventari Tablet. Yeah… The condition twist part of the Revenant Mallyx you talk about used to exist in beta weekends and it was pretty cancer in duel arenas. I remember.

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Eurantien.4632:

Alekt.5803:

I still had two instances of frost aura granting regen and fury and a flat heal of 800. Maybe it would have been slightly in the elementalist favor. But, we’re talking about a pet class here.

If someone asks me to add Lava Font, I have a video with it, and the ranger would side step them, which caused the fireball to miss. No damage were added as a result.

Fighting off point, aka WvW, should not be balanced around. If this game wishes to be “esport” balance should be around top tier, PvE should be balanced around NPC design and mechanics, and WvW shouldn’t be the focus of balance because of 50 v 50 isn’t something manageable to be balanced around. Therefore, fighting off point isn’t an arguable point of contention to determine what is OP and what is not. In a node fight lava font becomes severely more effective given your enemy is more likely to stay in a small radius around it. Also, if you are skilled you can do things like immob the druid into your lava font, knock them into a wall, or put it in front of their path as they round a corner of LoS so they take multiple ticks from the lava font. Given the counterplay of bristelback the only thing I could say you have an argument for is that unrelenting assault is too strong, not just smokescale.

Lava Font has a crippling delay before landing the first tick. I think every elementalists agree that this delay needs to be removed. As for wall; it’s tricky with Rampage as One; I know it has this cooldown, but 13 sec of stability really becomes an issue when you rely on a static field to land combo. As for immobilize, it is limited to Shockwave, which has a nightmarish aftercast and poor hit-chance on a 30 seconds cooldown. No cripple on the weapon set, only a chill field on a 40 seconds cooldown.

Yes. On-point may be better, but I am certainly not standing on point, nor am I standing outside of the point because we both saw the same thing: I completely lose in the ranged fight (druid had no pet helping, and he did not even have a damaging amulet), and absolutely not win in the close-quarter.

It’s almost as-if Ele Staff isn’t a skirmishing weapon. Weird, huh?

Not support either. It does not work anymore.

It’s considered “support” because the offensive side is clunky and weak.

The weapon hasn’t really seen any updates in a long time.
It’s still usable as a backline weapon and in PvE to do almost anything.

Some weapons just wont be useful for everything. Even Ele needs to accept that.

Jack of no trade; master of none.

“Demon stance focuses on conditions, with a twist. Let’s call it condition manipulation. Instead of dealing with conditions in the traditional sense—mostly by removing them— your approach to conditions as a revenant is all about accumulating them in order to empower your attacks. The more conditions you have, the stronger and more impactful your demon legend skills will become”

Things change :L

*yea, yea, we have Replenishing Despair and Bolstered Anguish, but you know what I mean

If we’re going to talk about the non-viable state of Ventari Tablet. Yeah… The condition twist part of the Revenant Mallyx you talk about used to exist in beta weekends and it was pretty cancer in duel arenas. I remember.

That’s…not the point at all.
The point is that things we used to like about a class aren’t constant. Anet changes things or refuses to fix them and now they’re much different from the thing that originally brought us to the class in the first place.

You want a jack of all trades, but Ele doesn’t really do that (at least not in PvP).
I wanted a Condition Manipulating Mallyx and instead of them trying different things, it was just scrapped. The legend doesn’t even work well in any game mode; let me explain myself: the only reason Mallyx is ever used is for the +10% stat boost in PvE or because its biggest weaknesses are covered in PvP by Ret + Herald lines (which is a stupid interaction; no class should have Perma Stab) and it can then freely spam Resistance (which only gets good up-time because of FoN) and banish Enchantment.

Also, not everything is about duel arenas. Think about other modes and applications. You take duels way too seriously in a game that:
1. Isn’t balanced around 1v1.
2. Has had a bad record in balancing.
3. Shouldn’t really be taken that seriously for its PvP; it’s too flawed in that regard.

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Eurantien.4632:

Alekt.5803:

I still had two instances of frost aura granting regen and fury and a flat heal of 800. Maybe it would have been slightly in the elementalist favor. But, we’re talking about a pet class here.

If someone asks me to add Lava Font, I have a video with it, and the ranger would side step them, which caused the fireball to miss. No damage were added as a result.

Fighting off point, aka WvW, should not be balanced around. If this game wishes to be “esport” balance should be around top tier, PvE should be balanced around NPC design and mechanics, and WvW shouldn’t be the focus of balance because of 50 v 50 isn’t something manageable to be balanced around. Therefore, fighting off point isn’t an arguable point of contention to determine what is OP and what is not. In a node fight lava font becomes severely more effective given your enemy is more likely to stay in a small radius around it. Also, if you are skilled you can do things like immob the druid into your lava font, knock them into a wall, or put it in front of their path as they round a corner of LoS so they take multiple ticks from the lava font. Given the counterplay of bristelback the only thing I could say you have an argument for is that unrelenting assault is too strong, not just smokescale.

Lava Font has a crippling delay before landing the first tick. I think every elementalists agree that this delay needs to be removed. As for wall; it’s tricky with Rampage as One; I know it has this cooldown, but 13 sec of stability really becomes an issue when you rely on a static field to land combo. As for immobilize, it is limited to Shockwave, which has a nightmarish aftercast and poor hit-chance on a 30 seconds cooldown. No cripple on the weapon set, only a chill field on a 40 seconds cooldown.

Yes. On-point may be better, but I am certainly not standing on point, nor am I standing outside of the point because we both saw the same thing: I completely lose in the ranged fight (druid had no pet helping, and he did not even have a damaging amulet), and absolutely not win in the close-quarter.

It’s almost as-if Ele Staff isn’t a skirmishing weapon. Weird, huh?

Not support either. It does not work anymore.

It’s considered “support” because the offensive side is clunky and weak.

The weapon hasn’t really seen any updates in a long time.
It’s still usable as a backline weapon and in PvE to do almost anything.

Some weapons just wont be useful for everything. Even Ele needs to accept that.

Jack of no trade; master of none.

“Demon stance focuses on conditions, with a twist. Let’s call it condition manipulation. Instead of dealing with conditions in the traditional sense—mostly by removing them— your approach to conditions as a revenant is all about accumulating them in order to empower your attacks. The more conditions you have, the stronger and more impactful your demon legend skills will become”

Things change :L

*yea, yea, we have Replenishing Despair and Bolstered Anguish, but you know what I mean

If we’re going to talk about the non-viable state of Ventari Tablet. Yeah… The condition twist part of the Revenant Mallyx you talk about used to exist in beta weekends and it was pretty cancer in duel arenas. I remember.

That’s…not the point at all.
The point is that things we used to like about a class aren’t constant. Anet changes things or refuses to fix them and now they’re much different from the thing that originally brought us to the class in the first place.

You want a jack of all trades, but Ele doesn’t really do that (at least not in PvP).
I wanted a Condition Manipulating Mallyx and instead of them trying different things, it was just scrapped. The legend doesn’t even work well in any game mode; let me explain myself: the only reason Mallyx is ever used is for the +10% stat boost in PvE or because its biggest weaknesses are covered in PvP by Ret + Herald lines (which is a stupid interaction; no class should have Perma Stab) and it can then freely spam Resistance (which only gets good up-time because of FoN) and banish Enchantment.

Also, not everything is about duel arenas. Think about other modes and applications. You take duels way too seriously in a game that:
1. Isn’t balanced around 1v1.
2. Has had a bad record in balancing.
3. Shouldn’t really be taken that seriously for its PvP; it’s too flawed in that regard.

Oh boy. I knew saying the word duel would have made you say that. Duels were simply popular during beta weekends to compare results. Even Abjured did that.

The usual mantra is that “1v1 means nothing” in gw2. But I am seriously questioning this fact when some of the classes currently on meta are so good 1v1, yet still the best for the team. And… the 1-3-1 splits forces those 1v1 too.

Alekt.5803:

Oh boy. I knew saying the word duel would have made you say that. Duels were simply popular during beta weekends to compare results. Even Abjured did that.

The usual mantra is that “1v1 means nothing” in gw2. But I am seriously questioning this fact when some of the classes currently on meta are so good 1v1, yet still the best for the team. And… the 1-3-1 splits forces those 1v1 too.

My points still stand. You’re obsessed with duels/sPvP and ignore almost everything else.

This is a pointless post comparing two different mediums under unequal circumstances.

Not sure if you are really that stupid to compare 2 skills of diferent classes. Your comparison is the most ridiculous you ever could pick. Comparing a weapon with only one damaging skill out of 5 with staff with 20 skills.

The forum is lately flooded with such nonsence stuff that it starts to be really annoying already.

Miyu.8137:

Not sure if you are really that stupid to compare 2 skills of diferent classes. Your comparison is the most ridiculous you ever could pick. Comparing a weapon with only one damaging skill out of 5 with staff with 20 skills.

The forum is lately flooded with such nonsence stuff that it starts to be really annoying already.

Pet class auto-attack vs ’we’re not sure the role yet’ class auto-attack. The pet class wins.

Lets remove the 4 auto-attacks from the 20 skills. Druid Staff 4 is Both Earth 5 and Air 4 stacked together on a shorter cooldown. Druid 5 is ‘equivalent’ to magnetic aura, on shorter cooldown yet again, plus it heals, so we’ll count it as geyser for its water field. Number 3 is an evade frame on a shorter cooldown than burning retreat, and it’s also a blast finisher, so we’re going to count it for eruption too.

So we have remaining on the Elementalist staff:
-Lava Font
-Meteor Shower
-Ice Spike
-Frozen Ground
-Lightning Surge
-Gust
-Static Field
-Unsteady Ground

Lava Font is not reliable, so it is out. Fire Burst is mainly for condition builds. Gust deals no damage and never hits, so it is out. Ice Spike is not reliable either. Static Field is good. Unsteady Ground deals no damage, but is still good. Frozen Ground deals no damage. Lightning Surge has a long cooldown.

To wrap up, the 20 skill class you describes ends up with;

Fireball
Lava Font
Flame Burst
Burning Retreat
Meteor Shower
Water Bolt
Ice Spike
Geyser
Frozen Ground
Healing Rain
Chain Lightning
Lightning Surge
Gust
Windborne Speed
Static Field
Stoning
Eruption
Magnetic Aura
Unsteady Ground
Shockwave

So yeah. The 20 skill class only ends up with a total 6 extra “notable” skill. That’s balance for you.

Wtf man seriously? “Druid Staff 4 is Both Earth 5 and Air 4 stacked together” , “Druid 5 is ‘equivalent’ to magnetic aura”. All of these skills do smth different. Schock way is targeted skill, causing double the time of immobilize and bleeding. Evade frame isn’t blast finisher but unlike uncestral grace its fire field etc etc etc so wtf man? Stop comparing uncomparable, you only making fool of yourself sadly((.

Miyu.8137:

Wtf man seriously? “Druid Staff 4 is Both Earth 5 and Air 4 stacked together” , “Druid 5 is ‘equivalent’ to magnetic aura”. All of these skills do smth different. Schock way is targeted skill, causing double the time of immobilize and bleeding. Evade frame isn’t blast finisher but unlike uncestral grace its fire field etc etc etc so wtf man? Stop comparing uncomparable, you only making fool of yourself sadly((.

Ancestral Grace.
Healing: 1,610 (1.0)?
Number of Targets: 5
Radius: 240

• Combo Finisher: Blast*
  Evade Evade: 1¼s
  Range: 1,200

Vine Surge does the movement condition clear and the immobilize, same damage with a much higher velocity. The bleeding is meaningless.

We’re talking about the “roughly” the same. I know it’s not the same. You tell me that elementalist has 20 skills. It’s more like 16 without counting the auto-attacks, and most of them are half as good as the other skills on a longer cooldown.

If you would play ranger then you would know that ranger staff nr2 and nr4 skills are very clunky as well. But that’s not the point. You could compare skills like that endlessly. Why guardian staff offers 12 stacks of might for 10sec yet healing when druid can’t? Why Daredevil deals so much dmg with staff compared to druid? Why revenant deals so much dmg with staff yet blocking attacks and ccing enemies? Why DH traps deals so much dmg compared to ranger traps? Why does DH have elite trap and ranger doesn’t? We could go on like this forever.

Every class got specific role to play, they are not all the same! They all have different style of play and also different skills. You need to stop compare umcompareable.

Druid is fine and healthy for the game, once we stop keyboard turning we can be in the top 10% best rangers or in the 10 last depend of the state of the game, I really enjoy it.

Sooo, someone with way more hps, better armor, some really nice selfheals wins in a straight auto-attack faceoff against a class with the worst base hp/armor, also known for their lousy autoattacks?
Gee, who would’ve thought.

Can we have marauder Druid vs marauder Ele instead? Feel free to throw in an extra clip using Scepter for some added salt

You showed aa competition of dmg ele vs no dmg druid and still druid won.
Much more it was only competition of aa, so he didin’t use pet.
If it would be competition of reliability we stay no chance against beam with our rocks and flares.
Rest of our skills are meant for tower defense play style which isn’t go for us in competetive game mode.
1v1 scores have meaning.
Having 20 skills make us punished in all aspects: traits, utilities and even weapons skills themsefls.
How it is possible to have skills that are tower defense and still have not reliable aa in the same moment.

The only relevant place for Staff DPS is in PvE, and quess what is used in raids as a main DPS weapon?

Thats right, staff ele… gee wizz, we never could see it coming.

Really stupid comparison, Ele has lower HP pool so he naturally died first (Mender and Marauder give the same vitality bonus), also adding up the numbers, Ele’s total damage was slightly higher!
Also, you didn’t remove all the passive defense traits, so Druid had a pretty high protection up-time, which would not always happen in a real battle (with many many other things).

As a main druid I agree that it needs some shaves ,most important is fixing the Bristleback F2 bug as soon as possible, and maybe (maybe!) after doing so, if its still too strong, give a small nerf to its damage.
Maybe a small increase to SnR.
Other than that there are other classes rather than Druid that are much more unbalanced and annoying. Bunker meta will never be gone because that how the Druid is built, but there are very easy counters to it is not even close to being as cancerous as the meta in the 1st league season.

This thread is just another pointless attempt to complain about Druids (l2p pls, you see a druid with the ugly projectile shooting cookie monster? get your evades and projectile hate ready), if I really wanted to Auto-Attack you I’d use my sword!

Prediction to next pointless comparison: Mender Druid sword AA vs. Zerker Teef sword AA, and also druid has 25 Might stacks and Fury! Druid wins!! wow, nerf Druid’s Sword!

Coconut.7082:

This thread is just another pointless attempt to complain about Druids (l2p pls, you see a druid with the ugly projectile shooting cookie monster? get your evades and projectile hate ready), if I really wanted to Auto-Attack you I’d use my sword!

I don’t think so. Its about buffing ele aa to make it more reliable cuz of rest of Staff skills that aren’t reliable ala tower defense.

Otherwise why in ele forum and whenever we can we remind how clunky our aa’s are?

Mem no Fushia.7604:

Coconut.7082:

This thread is just another pointless attempt to complain about Druids (l2p pls, you see a druid with the ugly projectile shooting cookie monster? get your evades and projectile hate ready), if I really wanted to Auto-Attack you I’d use my sword!

I don’t think so. Its about buffing ele aa to make it more reliable cuz of rest of Staff skills that aren’t reliable ala tower defense.

Otherwise why in ele forum and whenever we can we remind how clunky our aa’s are?

Well, judging by the OP’s last posts all he does is complain about Druid (also saw some Mesmer complaints, seriously dude?!), Plus he OP has stated that he hates eles in one of his comments so I don’t think it has anything to do with ele buffs.

Though I do hope for eles (and all other semi-useless PvP classes) to get their place back in the meta, maybe even with some nice DPS-non bunker build that many eles are hoping for, I don’t think that buffing the AA is the way to go..

Didnt you hear? Ele is in the meta..

Chokolata.1870:

Didnt you hear? Ele is in the meta..

actually no, most eles I see are a free kill, care to enlighten me?

Mem no Fushia.7604:

I don’t think so. Its about buffing ele aa to make it more reliable cuz of rest of Staff skills that aren’t reliable ala tower defense.

Otherwise why in ele forum and whenever we can we remind how clunky our aa’s are?

As long balance is not split between game modes, you can’t buff (staff or dagger) eles damage without completely breaking PvE balance, where it is already top dps class.

Druid AA is the only damage on the weapon while Ele does more damage with every other skill.

Chokolata.1870:

Didnt you hear? Ele is in the meta..

Yup, I knew it one week prior. Went up against one of Best Team North Africa ele, me (as a warrior), phataram as a rev and another dude threw everything we had at him and the ele sustained the fight for about 40 sec. I was baffled by it. I guess pratice/ or knowing what to run can make anything viable. This is why I ve ignored all those ele are no pointless in pvp, clearly those folks havent had a clue on what to run on theirs or aren’t experienced enough.

What the latest patch did was force ele to decide between heavy sustain/mitigation and damage. Celestial + might stacking offered both and it was kind of silly. Now you either support like mad or dish out hybrid damage at the cost of toughness and healing.

As far as staff goes, staff has always been a poor pvp weapon and was outshone by DD. Now its DF.

And as far as a DPS ele build goes, and this is true for pretty much any glass build, it will NEVER EVER BE VIABLE AS LONG AS THIEF IS META. You need heavy damage avoidance or stealth. Hell even mesmer suffers when thief shines. The only glass that can sustain vs a thief are scrapper and rev and that is due to both of those things and free stats from traits.

Hammerguard.9834:

Druid AA is the only damage on the weapon while Ele does more damage with every other skill.

So? All these skills won’t help ele (and pretty much any other class) from being killed by druid. Druid is absolutely OP in 1vs1 atm. And I believe it will be nerfed eventually.

Chokolata.1870:

What the latest patch did was force ele to decide between heavy sustain/mitigation and damage. Celestial + might stacking offered both and it was kind of silly. Now you either support like mad or dish out hybrid damage at the cost of toughness and healing.

As far as staff goes, staff has always been a poor pvp weapon and was outshone by DD. Now its DF.

And as far as a DPS ele build goes, and this is true for pretty much any glass build, it will NEVER EVER BE VIABLE AS LONG AS THIEF IS META. You need heavy damage avoidance or stealth. Hell even mesmer suffers when thief shines. The only glass that can sustain vs a thief are scrapper and rev and that is due to both of those things and free stats from traits.

Thieves are not the issue, believe me, I play damage tempest with staff. Revenants, Reapers and Druids with Ancient Seeds are way more dangerous.

Druid staff AA does more damage than people think. Plus ele staff AA damage is kitten poor. Fire AA damage isn’t nearly high enough for being a literally fireball that applies no burning. Try it with earth and see if the added weakness makes any difference.

The fact that a single skill is being compared to another single skill is embarrassing enough. Ele’s staff has 20 skills. Ignoring that just makes everything said irrelevant.

You might as well compare Ele staff 5 to Druid staff 5. It’s just as stupid.