Guild Wars 2

He has low defence and mobility :P
He dies from 1-2 aoes :P
He has low attack :P
Different classes, have different strenghs and weaknesses :P

(ok i will stop , but i am kinda enjoy it :P)

pinkbunnies.4620:

Stin.9781:

pinkbunnies.4620:

Stin.9781:

pinkbunnies.4620:

So… If the thief had had, I dont know 1 maybe1.5 more seconds probably less the mesmer would have been dead. Thats normal right? But the mesmer seeing it coming and blowing all his important cooldowns to burst back in a death race is “unfair”?

whatever… Im glad i dont play a shatter build. just seems funny when instagib burst people complain when it happens to them.

Its about equal burst but you are forgeting some things. Mesmer has a portal. Time warp for teamfights. His burst is AoE scale. His burst is possible more often then is thiefs.

O yeah? how many utilities do you think these mesmers have on their skill bar? everyone seems to think they come built in with decoy, blink, mirror images, signet, and portal… Its like when people homogenize warrior/ele/thief builds in their qq by picking the strongest things from a variety of mutually exclusive set ups and complaining like its possible to do it all at once.

like i said I dont play shatter build so it doesn’t directly impact me but the hypocrisy is palpable in the devs rush to cater to this particular qq.

I play that build myself… so dont start this stuff rly. I have portal, illiusion of life, mirrior images and time warp. It does pack all of above, exept decoy since i run ress instead of extra stunbreak. I dont have signet, as it is unneccesary.

I wont quote your post history but you know you are a thief advocate/thief main and the bias you have on this issue will be clear to anyone who looks at your log.

Does this have to mean i play 1 class or sth ? I also play guardian/ele/mesmer/necro, and i know- Mesmer brings same burst as thief, more predictable but same burst, and way much more team utlity. Simple as it is, utility/burst or cooldowns(availability of it) have to get longer. And im not flaming like some rage kid, im giving true arguments. Dont neglect my argumets with my post history, as that looks like you are avoiding to answer real question.

Stop the QQ already if you wanna be able to survive glass mesmer burst don’t spec full glass cannon thief. there are other viable builds out there with decent dmg and survivability.

Jumper.9482:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr8l833Gs9I

Please explain what just happened.

Or check out Mesmers abilites/traits.
Break stun + 2illusions, F1.

Actually the most OP trait is 30 illusions that will add a further instance of dmg using MW. But it has always been there since launch and I don’t really feel the need to nerf it.

The first answer from Nimlar is right, it’s what happened. And you don’t need macro to do that (he pressed 3 buttons(distorsion, mirror image, mind wrack) where jumper used 2 (backstab, steal)).

Mesmer beat thief in 1v1 if the mesmer don’t do any mistake.
It’s been like that since the start of the game but people only begin to realise that now.
Does anybody wonder why is the mesmer guarding close point ? Maybe because he was the god of 1v1 ? (there are some counter build, but thief aren’t since dancing dagger nerf).

I do not have horse in the race (I do not care if thief burst is nerfed since I do not use it) but:
Thief (Warrior) burst and mesmer burst cannot be compared.
With a stun breaker thief burst is avoidable pretty much 100% of time, even when they pop haste along with it (yes I have seen some do that).
Warrior burst is even slower then thief’s so the same as above applies.
Mesmer burst in its current state is instant, you have to guess when it is going off to avoid it, you cannot REACT to it (by react I mean: detect it is happening, and then execute appropriate sequence to avoid most of it) (and please, stop talking about clones ‘running to you’. That is simply nonsense if you play melee you are always in the range of clones dmg shatter since that is where mesmer sits (among his clones)). Dmg shatter simply needs to do MUCH less dmg considering how frequently they happen (low cooldown), considering they are instant, considering they are AOE, and considering what other options mesmer brings to the table (group haste, teleport, rez). Shatter dmg should be severely nerfed.
Let us not pretend it takes some mad skill to pull of that mesmer (or thief) bursts (the video).
Thief one requires no skill (since he initiates the contact he just needs to press few keys in a sequence), mesmer burst in video above requires decent reaction time and rest is just muscle memory press few keys (if someone has problem pulling it off, just sit there for few hours and repeat the same sequence, you will be ‘pro’ after that).

What needs change in thief (and other classes) bursts: Heartseeker should not be autoseeking the target (autoturing and autochasing the target should be off for all attacks and all classes). Then people would have to face proper direction (enemy) when spamming hs, which would sufficiently slow down the finisher of the thief burst to hopefully minimize complaints.
Also simply spamming your spells would not autoturn you to the enemy who positioned himself behind you to get well deserved dmg bonuses effectively negating his (movement/positioning) skill with no skill input on your side. Even WoW did not have this dumb feature. Wow’s dumb feature was that if you are out of range you could spam your skill and it would not go off until u get into range. But if enemy circled you, you had to turn to negate his positioning, just pressing your attack would not autoturn you to him and negate his effort/skill without any effort/skill on your side.

Jumper.9482:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr8l833Gs9I

Please explain what just happened.

I really don’t see why your upset about this encounter.

1-You had a nice reset from the first engagement.

2- You are a glass cannon thief, you took him him to a quarter health in half a second and yet your pointing the finger? He got the best of you in this time. Period.

3- The stealth rendering needs to be fixed, in this situation you benefit from it and he did not. Regardless it still needs to be addressed.

4- I partially blame the dev’s they already said they will be addressing the problem with mesmer insane spike damage. But who knows it could be something else there not telling us.

5- Until the bugs are under control, until stealth rendering is fixed, until you cannot character swap before a spvp tourne, until you cannot swap to the same class in spvp in order to get your elite back instantly. I pretty much won’t expect this game to become anywhere near balanced. And neither should you. As of right now the unbalanced outweighs balance in the game as a whole.

ahaha what a noob thread

1/ the mesmer knew you were coming back its like you played into his hands

2/ heard of dodge roll?

3/ get some defence

4/ l2p

and i just like to point out the insane length of stealth you had + your burst and you cry about a guy who outsmarted you lols

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Narcarsis.5739:

How would that be me agreeing with you? There was NO time for him to do anything. You can dodge thief burst, you can’t dodge what’s on that video. Mesmer damage is NOT justified.

Its justified my friend :P
As long as there are classes that an do the same , the Mesmer should do it :P
As Jumper said , he had 0.25 sec time to react , like the rest of us when we get stunned by Basilisk Venom :P

I respect Jumper and his skill , but i love to see those 1 sec TKK in all classes :P

Excellent, we have another supporter (and it’s not just you, there’s so many in this thread) for my idea that an Elementalist’s Churning Earth should one-shot anyone who gets caught in it. Multiply its damage by 3 and have it put on 24 stacks of bleeding.

Anyone who gets caught in an AoE that has a 3.25-second activation time and can’t get rid of the bleed before it kills them is obviously a terrible player whose opinion shouldn’t be listened to.

Trigr.6481:

I really don’t see why your upset about this encounter.
….

What is upsetting is that he got taken from 100% to 0 instantly (AOE on top of that and with low cooldown).
Note that mesmer could react to his burst because thief’s burst is fast but not instant.
Thief could not react to mesmers burst, because mesmer’s burst is instant.
What thief could have done is ‘predict’ how mesmer is going to react and then dodge before proceeding with his burst.
Note that ‘predicting’ what other player is going to do and take action in advance is completely different than ‘reacting’ to what he is doing.

Luckily, devs are fixing this, problem solved.

Mufa.1326:

What thief could have done is ‘predict’ how mesmer is going to react and then dodge before proceeding with his burst.
Note that ‘predicting’ what other player is going to do and take action in advance is completely different than ‘reacting’ to what he is doing.

But that doesnt aply to Steal+CnD too ?
U never seen it coming (no cast bar or any kind of indication of his right hand moving from range ) just a small poison that can stay for 30 sec and u have to predict how the Thief will behave and dodge accordenly

Whilst part of me is glad for mesmer burst, if only because thieves are getting a taste of what they have been doing for ages.

But alas, I would be in that engagement, on my dead engineer, just wondering what the hell happened.

It feels VERY much like the end of WotLK, way too much burst from some classes and a few other classes just looking on wondering why they cannot ever compete.

I swear down, I picked Engie, Ranger and Ele to play as, when I should have picked Mesmer Thief and maybe kept the Ele. I suck at picking the right classes, did the same in WoW. Hell, I even did it in DoW untill they fixed Eldar, I think I may just be crap at picking good classes in all games.

Mufa.1326:

Trigr.6481:

I really don’t see why your upset about this encounter.
….

What is upsetting is that he got taken from 100% to 0 instantly (AOE on top of that and with low cooldown).
Note that mesmer could react to his burst because thief’s burst is fast but not instant.
Thief could not react to mesmers burst, because mesmer’s burst is instant.
What thief could have done is ‘predict’ how mesmer is going to react and then dodge before proceeding with his burst.
Note that ‘predicting’ what other player is going to do and take action in advance is completely different than ‘reacting’ to what he is doing.

Luckily, devs are fixing this, problem solved.

The reason I say that is because there is so many problems in the game. I should have said “surprised” instead of upset would be more fitting.

Going in attempting to ignore the phantasms/clones and going straight for the mesmer is asking to die. Perhaps if he took them out at range this thread probably wouldn’t exist.

Mufa.1326:

Trigr.6481:

I really don’t see why your upset about this encounter.
….

What is upsetting is that he got taken from 100% to 0 instantly (AOE on top of that and with low cooldown).
Note that mesmer could react to his burst because thief’s burst is fast but not instant.
Thief could not react to mesmers burst, because mesmer’s burst is instant.
What thief could have done is ‘predict’ how mesmer is going to react and then dodge before proceeding with his burst.
Note that ‘predicting’ what other player is going to do and take action in advance is completely different than ‘reacting’ to what he is doing.

Luckily, devs are fixing this, problem solved.

Spam Disabling Shot on Shortbow. Oops you can avoid mesmer burst.

Use Shadow Step to get out of immoblize. Oops you can avoid mesmer burst.

If you are not immobilzed, dodged TOWARDS the Clones. Oops you can avoid mesmer burst.

Hey, a thief getting insta blown up eh? Oh the irony.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Hey, a thief getting insta blown up eh? Oh the irony.

I know, finally some GW2 karma I find enjoyable

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Mufa.1326:

What thief could have done is ‘predict’ how mesmer is going to react and then dodge before proceeding with his burst.
Note that ‘predicting’ what other player is going to do and take action in advance is completely different than ‘reacting’ to what he is doing.

But that doesnt aply to Steal+CnD too ?
U never seen it coming (no cast bar or any kind of indication of his right hand moving from range ) just a small poison that can stay for 30 sec and u have to predict how the Thief will behave and dodge accordenly

1. steal+C&D does not take you 100%-0. Not eating backstab (and heartseekers) is a matter of reflex. So you do not need to dodge steal+c&d you need to stun break and dodge backstab and heartseekers.
2. poison does 100 per sec if done to you by burst build. So you have plenty of time to remove the poison without suffering any significant dmg from it. Posion duration is irrelevant (and poison from steal is 10s, not 30s), it is relevant only for the first few seconds where it requires you to clean it before you apply heal. If you let poison sit on you for 30 seconds you are incompetent and have no place posting in discussion like this.

Just a friendly advice from a noob to an other noob …
U can use Deathblossom(evasive attack) to nutrilize all this damage , or attack from range or get a Soldier Amulet …
I prefer a thousand times to fight Mesmers , even if i always loose :P

Jumper.9482:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr8l833Gs9I

Please explain what just happened.

so you are upset cuz a glass cannon thief got 1 shot when trying 2 1 shot someone else? how much armor did you have ? because that is probably the reason the dmg was so high ?

Ok I was going to copy and paste this because I am so sick and kitten tired of typing this.

Mesmers burst (without mirror images), is one of the hardest bursts to set up against a skilled player out of all of the burst classes. If that’s how we are going to balance the game, around skilled players (you know like thief burst and warrior burst is fine for skilled players and is a l2p issue) then you can’t complain. A Mesmer has to summon three clones with weapon skills, hope they don’t die to Aoe (yeah right) then they have to either land illusionary leap and clone swap to immobilize you (which doesn’t work if you are on a different elevation than the Mesmer) or magic bullet to burst you. The mesmers target has to be immobilized for the burst to land. If you aren’t immobilized and the Mesmer shatters the clones are just going to chase you around the map dying along the way shattering one at a time individually which is not a burst. Have you ever tried to land a shatter burst on a skilled player? All they have to do is avoid illusionary leap (the only ability that has a clone leaping at you) with a dodge, and the whole mesmers burst is negated. If we are going to balance burst damage around defensive players skill level saying backstab and frenzy 100b is fine and l2p, then How about using that excuse on mesmers, how about you learn 2 dodge the one love that has to be landed for the burst to even happen!? This is without mirror images of course, with mirror images it’s a 36 second cd (traited) so you will only see it once per fight, and if hey Mesmer is using mirror images play decoy to 3 clone shatter you, then he is using 2 utility skills to land that burst (which is apparently on for frenzy 100b and backstab). Now I’m not complaining about frenzy 100b or backstab, but if you are going to say noob l2 dodge, then guess what, when it comes time for you to complain about another burst class, then don’t run your mouth if you can’t l2 dodge their burst.

ilJumperMT.4871:

Mufa.1326:

Trigr.6481:

I really don’t see why your upset about this encounter.
….

What is upsetting is that he got taken from 100% to 0 instantly (AOE on top of that and with low cooldown).
Note that mesmer could react to his burst because thief’s burst is fast but not instant.
Thief could not react to mesmers burst, because mesmer’s burst is instant.
What thief could have done is ‘predict’ how mesmer is going to react and then dodge before proceeding with his burst.
Note that ‘predicting’ what other player is going to do and take action in advance is completely different than ‘reacting’ to what he is doing.

Luckily, devs are fixing this, problem solved.

Spam Disabling Shot on Shortbow. Oops you can avoid mesmer burst.

Use Shadow Step to get out of immoblize. Oops you can avoid mesmer burst.

If you are not immobilzed, dodged TOWARDS the Clones. Oops you can avoid mesmer burst.

You guys are purposefully going off topic.
The question is not whether you can avoid it (anything can be avoided with very low cost: well timed dodge), but whether you can ‘react’ to it.

To understand my point: Imagine if 100b was instant skill. So one moment you are standing with full health next moment you are just down because you ate 18K dmg.
That is what mesmers currently have. Yes, it requires more than 1key to be pressed, but it does not matter. Pressing 1key or “5keys in a fraction of a second” (or making 5 key presses into macro so it becomes 1 key press) is just a matter of practice (no it is not what should be called ‘skill’ although I see a lot of confused people (including some devs?) who think it is).
The fact that it is essentially instant and that other side has no time to react is an issue. Noone wants to play the game in which they just ‘blow up’ instantly from full health without given option to react.
Melee character HAS to go among clones, so that nonsense about clones running to you is just stupid. Shatter is instant when you are among clones. Telling us not to go among clones is the same as telling us not to touch mesmer.

Now, the second set of points:
1. Blow ups should be ‘fast’ (how fast can be discussed) but not instant.
2. And fast blowups should be expensive (spend few utilities maybe elite too (something like warrior and thief).
3. Fast blowups should be on high cooldown (40-60 sec).
4. Fast blowups should leave the guy who is doing spiking vulnerable after he attempts to blow up the other player (i.e. high risk high reward).
5. When player specs to be glass (to blow up others fast) he should not offer much of anything else to the team.
6. cannot be aoe (single target).

Note that thief burst and warrior bursts are following above outline pretty well (warrior violates it a bit with pbaoe feature of 100b).

Note that mesmer burst violates above outine pretty much on every point.
1. Mesmer burst is instant.
2. it is not expensive (one utility, one dodge).
3. Not on high cooldown (mw on very low cooldown ~10s)
4. Mesmer burst is riskless. Mesmer can follow up the burst (or include in it) with blurred frenzy which gives 2 sec of invulnerability, and then switch to staff and teleport away. It can actually be done automatically breaking out of warrior or thief burst (since skill acting to create two clones is also a stun breaker), so it is great counter to other classes bursts.
5. And mesmer offers so much to their team besides the burst.
6. Mesmer burst is aoe.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Mesmers burst (without mirror images), is one of the hardest bursts to set up against a skilled player out of all of the burst classes. If that’s how we are going to balance the game, around skilled players (you know like thief burst and warrior burst is fine for skilled players and is a l2p issue) then you can’t complain.

Dude, pressing few keys in a fraction of second is NOT skill. I know you and many ppl think it is (devs too), but it is not.
Let me give you simple rule: If it can be macro-ed, it is not skill. If something that can be macro-ed is stupid powerful, then it is BAD GAME DESIGN, not skill on your part.

Skill is in the interaction with enemy:
1. movement (getting behind enemy, facing the enemy when attacking). Of course ANET chose to DUMB DOWN the game by making spells, attack autoturn you, which not only does not require player to have skill when executing offense, but also negates the skill of other player who just circled behind your back. Congratulations on autofacing him by pressing one key.
2. playing mind games with the enemy.
3. reacting to your enemy (e.g. dodging big hits/cc, breaking out of stun fast, etc).

They made d/d elementalists a bott-able class that just cycles through same key sequence pretty much and gets very good results…whatever.
Now they allow for insta blowups.

I love how the thief took 80% of the mesmer’s health in a fraction of a second, but he complains when another class does the same?

Both mesmers and thieves need their burst toned down

Is it any wonder the PVP population is nosediving?

aaron.7850:

I love how the thief took 80% of the mesmer’s health in a fraction of a second, but he complains when another class does the same?

Both mesmers and thieves need their burst toned down

Agreed.

Mufa.1326:

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Mesmers burst (without mirror images), is one of the hardest bursts to set up against a skilled player out of all of the burst classes. If that’s how we are going to balance the game, around skilled players (you know like thief burst and warrior burst is fine for skilled players and is a l2p issue) then you can’t complain.

Dude, pressing few keys in a fraction of second is NOT skill. I know you and many ppl think it is (devs too), but it is not.
Let me give you simple rule: If it can be macro-ed, it is not skill. If something that can be macro-ed is stupid powerful, then it is BAD GAME DESIGN, not skill on your part.

Skill is in the interaction with enemy:
1. movement (getting behind enemy, facing the enemy when attacking). Of course ANET chose to DUMB DOWN the game by making spells, attack autoturn you, which not only does not require player to have skill when executing offense, but also negates the skill of other player who just circled behind your back. Congratulations on autofacing him by pressing one key.
2. playing mind games with the enemy.
3. reacting to your enemy (e.g. dodging big hits/cc, breaking out of stun fast, etc).

They made d/d elementalists a bott-able class that just cycles through same key sequence pretty much and gets very good results…whatever.
Now they allow for insta blowups.

Woah there guildie, calm down. Did I say it was skill? kitten no I didn’t, al I am saying in comparison to 100B and thief burst, Mesmer burst is harder to set up. Nothing was mentioned about the overall skill level required to do this. 100b with frenzy will take you from 18k to 0 in a fraction of a second, trust me I know. I never said anything about the overall skill required to set up all of these bursts, but what I am saying is that if the other players who defend there classes and their classes bursts so vehemently by saying all you have to do is dodge, or l2p or l2 dodge, should take a hard look in the mirror when they call out another class when it happens to them. Mesmer burst is not hard to evade, just evade the clone leap, or slighty move in another direction and the immobilize won’t even hit you.

Mufa.1326:

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Mufa.1326:

What thief could have done is ‘predict’ how mesmer is going to react and then dodge before proceeding with his burst.
Note that ‘predicting’ what other player is going to do and take action in advance is completely different than ‘reacting’ to what he is doing.

But that doesnt aply to Steal+CnD too ?
U never seen it coming (no cast bar or any kind of indication of his right hand moving from range ) just a small poison that can stay for 30 sec and u have to predict how the Thief will behave and dodge accordenly

1. steal+C&D does not take you 100%-0. Not eating backstab (and heartseekers) is a matter of reflex. So you do not need to dodge steal+c&d you need to stun break and dodge backstab and heartseekers.
2. poison does 100 per sec if done to you by burst build. So you have plenty of time to remove the poison without suffering any significant dmg from it. Posion duration is irrelevant (and poison from steal is 10s, not 30s), it is relevant only for the first few seconds where it requires you to clean it before you apply heal. If you let poison sit on you for 30 seconds you are incompetent and have no place posting in discussion like this.

the theif was a dumbazz he went right into the middle of those clones, where I might add a smart mesmer would do an aoe. MW isn’t instant either, the clone have to run to you to explode. unlike steal+bs that’s a one two button instant press. It’s a learn to play issue.

Well, I hope after all this talk about some classes being OP, Anet do the right thing and do more end game content for PVE. Because given a few more months, I cannot see the PVP side of things lasting much longer if they continue to think massively overpowered bugs are “Wicked Strong”.

Sorry cant get over the fact that an Insta gib thief went in to kill another player instantly within one rotation, and had it done to himself and then comes to the forums and asks what just happened. Now you know exactly how every none thief player feels when you guys say l2 dodge noob. You hit that Mesmer for 3/4 of his life with a mug cloak and dagger combo, he does the same back, and you complain?

I found myself laughing as he went right into the middle of those illusions. That’s dumb thief was waiting to be mindwracked

However you try to justify it this is ridiculous. At least a thief has an entire build devoted to being a quick gib setup, whereas a mesmer can run this setup and have…

1)Instant 10k AREA BURST with more for single target.
2)Portal for control over home point and middle, allowing to contribute in contested team battles.
3)Time warp to give a team area HASTE for 10 seconds for quickness stomps and quick kills.
4)The best duelist in the game.

And people wonder why mesmer is required on every team….

condiments.8043:

However you try to justify it this is ridiculous. At least a thief has an entire build devoted to being a quick gib setup, whereas a mesmer can run this setup and have…

1)Instant 10k AREA BURST with more for single target.
2)Portal for control over home point and middle, allowing to contribute in contested team battles.
3)Time warp to give a team area HASTE for 10 seconds for quickness stomps and quick kills.
4)The best duelist in the game.

And people wonder why mesmer is required on every team….

F1 + 1 ,222222222222222222222222

knight.8926:

condiments.8043:

However you try to justify it this is ridiculous. At least a thief has an entire build devoted to being a quick gib setup, whereas a mesmer can run this setup and have…

1)Instant 10k AREA BURST with more for single target.
2)Portal for control over home point and middle, allowing to contribute in contested team battles.
3)Time warp to give a team area HASTE for 10 seconds for quickness stomps and quick kills.
4)The best duelist in the game.

And people wonder why mesmer is required on every team….

F1 + 1 ,222222222222222222222222

Nice non-rebuttal. I wouldn’t mind thief burst getting nerfed either, its just hilarious listening mesmers try to justify this. They bring so much more to the team other than their damage, which is in many ways more insane than thieves. The only thing they are lacking in is on demand mobility, otherwise you’d be seeing 3 mesmer teams dominating every game.

condiments.8043:

knight.8926:

condiments.8043:

However you try to justify it this is ridiculous. At least a thief has an entire build devoted to being a quick gib setup, whereas a mesmer can run this setup and have…

1)Instant 10k AREA BURST with more for single target.
2)Portal for control over home point and middle, allowing to contribute in contested team battles.
3)Time warp to give a team area HASTE for 10 seconds for quickness stomps and quick kills.
4)The best duelist in the game.

And people wonder why mesmer is required on every team….

F1 + 1 ,222222222222222222222222

Nice non-rebuttal. I wouldn’t mind thief burst getting nerfed either, its just hilarious listening mesmers try to justify this. They bring so much more to the team other than their damage, which is in many ways more insane than thieves. The only thing they are lacking in is on demand mobility, otherwise you’d be seeing 3 mesmer teams dominating every game.

then let’s not argue on the fact that mesmers need to use different types of skills to actually be useful and your complaining about that fact.

knight.8926:

condiments.8043:

knight.8926:

condiments.8043:

However you try to justify it this is ridiculous. At least a thief has an entire build devoted to being a quick gib setup, whereas a mesmer can run this setup and have…

1)Instant 10k AREA BURST with more for single target.
2)Portal for control over home point and middle, allowing to contribute in contested team battles.
3)Time warp to give a team area HASTE for 10 seconds for quickness stomps and quick kills.
4)The best duelist in the game.

And people wonder why mesmer is required on every team….

F1 + 1 ,222222222222222222222222

Nice non-rebuttal. I wouldn’t mind thief burst getting nerfed either, its just hilarious listening mesmers try to justify this. They bring so much more to the team other than their damage, which is in many ways more insane than thieves. The only thing they are lacking in is on demand mobility, otherwise you’d be seeing 3 mesmer teams dominating every game.

then let’s not argue on the fact that mesmers need to use different types of skills to actually be useful and your complaining about that fact.

Every class uses different skills to be useful, hence why they are useful. Very few classes bring such all-encompassing utility and damage that the mesmer has in one build. Mesmer’s should have more viable builds for tournies, but this variant is WAYY over the top to the point it outshines anything else they could bring.

condiments.8043:

knight.8926:

condiments.8043:

knight.8926:

condiments.8043:

However you try to justify it this is ridiculous. At least a thief has an entire build devoted to being a quick gib setup, whereas a mesmer can run this setup and have…

1)Instant 10k AREA BURST with more for single target.
2)Portal for control over home point and middle, allowing to contribute in contested team battles.
3)Time warp to give a team area HASTE for 10 seconds for quickness stomps and quick kills.
4)The best duelist in the game.

And people wonder why mesmer is required on every team….

F1 + 1 ,222222222222222222222222

Nice non-rebuttal. I wouldn’t mind thief burst getting nerfed either, its just hilarious listening mesmers try to justify this. They bring so much more to the team other than their damage, which is in many ways more insane than thieves. The only thing they are lacking in is on demand mobility, otherwise you’d be seeing 3 mesmer teams dominating every game.

then let’s not argue on the fact that mesmers need to use different types of skills to actually be useful and your complaining about that fact.

Every class uses different skills to be useful, hence why they are useful. Very few classes bring such all-encompassing utility and damage that the mesmer has in one build. Mesmer’s should have more viable builds for tournies, but this variant is WAYY over the top to the point it outshines anything else they could bring.

they do have more builds, its just a matter of ppl not generalizing that every single mesmer is a shatter build and that their MW is what makes that mesmer.

This isn’t a thread about thief burst, this is a matter of the mesmer burst in question. Is it too high? certainly, since even heavily armed targets can take the same level of damage from a full combo, and its hard to actually counter attack/punish/ avoid. Thief and warrior burst damage is fairly easily avoided or negated, and then can be punished. It is much more difficult to do this to the mesmer’s burst build at the moment.

Numot.3965:

This isn’t a thread about thief burst, this is a matter of the mesmer burst in question. Is it too high? certainly, since even heavily armed targets can take the same level of damage from a full combo, and its hard to actually counter attack/punish/ avoid. Thief and warrior burst damage is fairly easily avoided or negated, and then can be punished. It is much more difficult to do this to the mesmer’s burst build at the moment.

dude how hard is it too see the illusions running towards you for MW compared to an instant thief steal + BS combo?

Jumper.9482:

If I had 0.25 seconds to react to him summoning extra clones and shattering like inbetween Thief hits, then fine, I’d say its relatively balanced and it was my fault for not reacting and not shadowstepping away in time like I do to 90% of the thieves that try that combo on me.
But he shattered me with clones that didn’t even appear on my screen until I was down. (for 3k+ per hit, mind you. As much as your standard 50-25% heartseeker.)

Excellent point Jumper. As much as your standard 50-25% heartseeker, which can be spammed vs a mesmer shatter which is on a CD.

Thief may as well be considered a light target with the way they are typically built. No-toughness or additional health.

I imagine that all of your survivability Jumper is tied up in your stealth and shortbow 5 and 1 utility used for condi-removal and mobility. Sorry but you can hardly complain about dying in such a fragile build vs another glass cannon.

Personally I don’t think it was a macro but then I didn’t see how that individual played for the rest of the match. You took 9k damage from Mind Wrack with no time to respond. A stun break was used and the clones were spawned as they always do – beside the mesmer, they were then shattered before fully rendering much like thieves that abuse the time to render out of stealth attack and restealth. Which is even funnier that a rank 52 thief KNOWING this about your own class would even consider complaining about another class that happened to turn the tables on you for a change.

You got beat. You got blown up. That mesmer was in a fair bit of paid tourney equipment and probably knew what sort of tactic you would attempt. You got outplayed and out lucked this time. Don’t get me wrong I watch your stream and am often impressed at your skill level with a thief, but there’s no way you’re being honest with yourself here.

knight.8926:

Numot.3965:

This isn’t a thread about thief burst, this is a matter of the mesmer burst in question. Is it too high? certainly, since even heavily armed targets can take the same level of damage from a full combo, and its hard to actually counter attack/punish/ avoid. Thief and warrior burst damage is fairly easily avoided or negated, and then can be punished. It is much more difficult to do this to the mesmer’s burst build at the moment.

dude how hard is it too see the illusions running towards you for MW compared to an instant thief steal + BS combo?

When you normally shatter combo its a pointblank shatter and you have the target immobilized. That person is gonna eat your damage most the time. Shatters are fine outside of that instance, except for the fact they are rather awkward to dodge to begin with, since there is a small window to avoid the shatter, or else the illusions chase back into range. You can intentionally use this to things like stagger dazes on people with diversion.

The problem isn’t shatter’s themselves, its a combination of factors that come together for a large spike of hard to avoid damage while being very safe to execute.

Numot.3965:

knight.8926:

Numot.3965:

This isn’t a thread about thief burst, this is a matter of the mesmer burst in question. Is it too high? certainly, since even heavily armed targets can take the same level of damage from a full combo, and its hard to actually counter attack/punish/ avoid. Thief and warrior burst damage is fairly easily avoided or negated, and then can be punished. It is much more difficult to do this to the mesmer’s burst build at the moment.

dude how hard is it too see the illusions running towards you for MW compared to an instant thief steal + BS combo?

When you normally shatter combo its a pointblank shatter and you have the target immobilized. That person is gonna eat your damage most the time. Shatters are fine outside of that instance, except for the fact they are rather awkward to dodge to begin with, since there is a small window to avoid the shatter, or else the illusions chase back into range. You can intentionally use this to things like stagger dazes on people with diversion.

The problem isn’t shatter’s themselves, its a combination of factors that come together for a large spike of hard to avoid damage while being very safe to execute.

And its AOE. Its hard enough to keep track of the clones behavior and the dodge window when you’re fighting a mesmer 1v1, but in a team fight? Hope you’re not next to your team member getting exploded because you’re gonna explode too.

this isn’t any different from a thief who BS out of stealth

so you nearly 1 shot him, but he beat you to the punch and your mad?

in the words of every thief who says steal/cnd/bs is fine, l2dodgenoob.

knight.8926:

this isn’t any different from a thief who BS out of stealth

Again that is a separate issue that needs to be addressed in a different thread.

The topic here is about mesmer’s current high burst in a specific spec.

knight.8926:

condiments.8043:

knight.8926:

condiments.8043:

knight.8926:

condiments.8043:

However you try to justify it this is ridiculous. At least a thief has an entire build devoted to being a quick gib setup, whereas a mesmer can run this setup and have…

1)Instant 10k AREA BURST with more for single target.
2)Portal for control over home point and middle, allowing to contribute in contested team battles.
3)Time warp to give a team area HASTE for 10 seconds for quickness stomps and quick kills.
4)The best duelist in the game.

And people wonder why mesmer is required on every team….

F1 + 1 ,222222222222222222222222

Nice non-rebuttal. I wouldn’t mind thief burst getting nerfed either, its just hilarious listening mesmers try to justify this. They bring so much more to the team other than their damage, which is in many ways more insane than thieves. The only thing they are lacking in is on demand mobility, otherwise you’d be seeing 3 mesmer teams dominating every game.

then let’s not argue on the fact that mesmers need to use different types of skills to actually be useful and your complaining about that fact.

Every class uses different skills to be useful, hence why they are useful. Very few classes bring such all-encompassing utility and damage that the mesmer has in one build. Mesmer’s should have more viable builds for tournies, but this variant is WAYY over the top to the point it outshines anything else they could bring.

they do have more builds, its just a matter of ppl not generalizing that every single mesmer is a shatter build and that their MW is what makes that mesmer.

Im not gonna argue bout that, but answer these plz

1. Which one brings more help to team?
2. Which one can bunker.
3. Which one can burst other glass cannons from 100>0%
4.How many utilitys does it use to set up burst.

My answers
1.Mesmer
2.Mesmer
3.Both
4. Thief (assasins signet and elite)(45 seconds cd for)(steal available each 45 seconds only)
Mesmer( Takes 1 utility, almost same cd) burst available each 10 seconds

Mesmer has more often acess to burst, more team utility too AND he can bunker side point. If he only had mobility of thief i would never probably see thief ingame anymore.

Numot.3965:

knight.8926:

this isn’t any different from a thief who BS out of stealth

Again that is a separate issue that needs to be addressed in a different thread.

The topic here is about mesmer’s current high burst in a specific spec.

well when the video shows a thief dropping 3/4 of someones health in 1/2 sec i think it gives reason to discuss both.

again the burst is due to a bug allowing mind-wrack to do double damage.

fix the bug, and you’ve fixed the burst.

Mesmers need a bug-fix, not a nerf.

Nerfing the damage and leaving the bug will mean only mesmers who exploit will be viable, and in pve mesmers may as well stay in only one zone: the lion’s arch trading post.

Numot.3965:

knight.8926:

this isn’t any different from a thief who BS out of stealth

Again that is a separate issue that needs to be addressed in a different thread.

The topic here is about mesmer’s current high burst in a specific spec.

Every class has a high burst in a specific spec, look at warrior for example (since I can’t talk about thieves here) their 100b deals the same or more damage. So why complain about mesmer doing the same?

Stin.9781:

knight.8926:

condiments.8043:

knight.8926:

condiments.8043:

knight.8926:

condiments.8043:

However you try to justify it this is ridiculous. At least a thief has an entire build devoted to being a quick gib setup, whereas a mesmer can run this setup and have…

1)Instant 10k AREA BURST with more for single target.
2)Portal for control over home point and middle, allowing to contribute in contested team battles.
3)Time warp to give a team area HASTE for 10 seconds for quickness stomps and quick kills.
4)The best duelist in the game.

And people wonder why mesmer is required on every team….

F1 + 1 ,222222222222222222222222

Nice non-rebuttal. I wouldn’t mind thief burst getting nerfed either, its just hilarious listening mesmers try to justify this. They bring so much more to the team other than their damage, which is in many ways more insane than thieves. The only thing they are lacking in is on demand mobility, otherwise you’d be seeing 3 mesmer teams dominating every game.

then let’s not argue on the fact that mesmers need to use different types of skills to actually be useful and your complaining about that fact.

Every class uses different skills to be useful, hence why they are useful. Very few classes bring such all-encompassing utility and damage that the mesmer has in one build. Mesmer’s should have more viable builds for tournies, but this variant is WAYY over the top to the point it outshines anything else they could bring.

they do have more builds, its just a matter of ppl not generalizing that every single mesmer is a shatter build and that their MW is what makes that mesmer.

Im not gonna argue bout that, but answer these plz

1. Which one brings more help to team?
2. Which one can bunker.
3. Which one can burst other glass cannons from 100>0%
4.How many utilitys does it use to set up burst.

My answers
1.Mesmer
2.Mesmer
3.Both
4. Thief (assasins signet and elite)(45 seconds cd for)(steal available each 45 seconds only)
Mesmer( Takes 1 utility, almost same cd) burst available each 10 seconds

Mesmer has more often acess to burst, more team utility too AND he can bunker side point. If he only had mobility of thief i would never probably see thief ingame anymore.

mesmers can’t really bunker, they avoid damage using illusions…

Mufa.1326:

Trigr.6481:

I really don’t see why your upset about this encounter.
….

What is upsetting is that he got taken from 100% to 0 instantly (AOE on top of that and with low cooldown).
Note that mesmer could react to his burst because thief’s burst is fast but not instant.
Thief could not react to mesmers burst, because mesmer’s burst is instant.
What thief could have done is ‘predict’ how mesmer is going to react and then dodge before proceeding with his burst.
Note that ‘predicting’ what other player is going to do and take action in advance is completely different than ‘reacting’ to what he is doing.

Luckily, devs are fixing this, problem solved.

You can’t react to most thief burst since most thief burst comes right after they unstealth. However, most thieves do the same thing over and over. So they’re very predictable.

I’d also like to point out that if a mes downed you like it did in the video, a warrior’s burst would crush you. So let’s nerf them too!