Guild Wars 2

Is that normal, that mesmer can put someone to chicken form till death? I mean its way too long.

It’s their elite skill. A kitten good one at that.

Do what you can to attempt to dodge them since you can still do that in moa form – unfortunately that’s about ALL you can do.

Would be cool if they gave the moa form actual, useful abilities though…just make them unwieldy.

I could peck their eyes out! I COULD APPLY A BLIND!

JonathanSharp.7094:

No. It’s a moa.

Bazinga!

If you’re dying while you’re moa’d you’re doing it wrong. I haven’t died as a moa in quite a while.

Not to mention that moa is probably the worst of the Mesmer elites. A 10 second ability that doesn’t even keep the target from dodging or running away versus a skill that gives quickness to EVERYONE in the area or a mass invisibility?

Most of the time I get moa’d it’s by some Mesmer that’s a button mashing goon and uses it whenever it’s up. Generally when I’m almost already dead anyway or it’s a three or four on one fight.

it is extremely annoying as a pet necro, since it takes out YOUR elite and 2-3 of your utilities in 1 move.

Admittedly I haven’t died to moa form in a while either. In smaller-scale fights, though, I don’t think it’s behind the other two.

If it’s a 2v2 over a single point in sPVP, for instance, taking one of the opposing two players effectively out of the fight for ~10 seconds can be incredibly powerful.

I imagine it will be balanced before all the E-Sport stuff rolls out. I’m guessing a shorter duration like 6 seconds.

Moa just needs to last shorter.

At least it isn’t like RIFT’s polymorph where you can’t do kitten while polymorphed.

Come on most Mesmers dont even use it, its not that great – long cast time, can be dodged, ect and not only that you can still MOVE and run away so if you are dying because of it i guess you are just seeing you are a Moa (NOT chicken) and letting them full on nuke you til you die – you can STILL move

nldixon.8514:

If you’re dying while you’re moa’d you’re doing it wrong. I haven’t died as a moa in quite a while.

Not to mention that moa is probably the worst of the Mesmer elites. A 10 second ability that doesn’t even keep the target from dodging or running away versus a skill that gives quickness to EVERYONE in the area or a mass invisibility?

Most of the time I get moa’d it’s by some Mesmer that’s a button mashing goon and uses it whenever it’s up. Generally when I’m almost already dead anyway or it’s a three or four on one fight.

You obviously don’t play tPvP, your opinion is therefore invalid.

As a bunker(btw who even termed it that?), your job is to stay ON the point. MoA morph gives you 2 choices: Stay on the point and die because you can’t use any abilities, or run away and lose the point. No other profession has an elite ability that comes close to this effectiveness against bunker builds. Mesmers already have enough broken mechanics in regards to tPvP. Why should they ALSO be able to so easily take a point. This is just one (extremely powerful) instance of how good this ability is.

Edit – INB4 hurr durr L2Dodge newb. Most of the time they cast it from stealth and so there are literally no visual cues.

I’d say one-third of Mesmers I face in tPvP use it, and they tend to be pretty good Mesmers.

In a 1v1 I don’t find being Moa that dangerous, of course you can move and LoS the Mesmer.

It’s in group situations it’s instant death. The Mesmer coordinates with their team and picks a target to Moa, and they stun-lock and destroy the Moa. After all, they have a whole 10 seconds. Even in PuG tournies most people know how useless a Moa’d player is that they’ll stop what they’re doing and focus to burn the Moa.

Being Moa’d is like holding a large red sign that reads: EASY KILL, YOU GOT 10 SECONDS!

It’s the ultimate “I-WIN” button against Bunker builds.

Sezu.8564:

nldixon.8514:

If you’re dying while you’re moa’d you’re doing it wrong. I haven’t died as a moa in quite a while.

Not to mention that moa is probably the worst of the Mesmer elites. A 10 second ability that doesn’t even keep the target from dodging or running away versus a skill that gives quickness to EVERYONE in the area or a mass invisibility?

Most of the time I get moa’d it’s by some Mesmer that’s a button mashing goon and uses it whenever it’s up. Generally when I’m almost already dead anyway or it’s a three or four on one fight.

You obviously don’t play tPvP, your opinion is therefore invalid.

As a bunker(btw who even termed it that?), your job is to stay ON the point. MoA morph gives you 2 choices: Stay on the point and die because you can’t use any abilities, or run away and lose the point. No other profession has an elite ability that comes close to this effectiveness against bunker builds. Mesmers already have enough broken mechanics in regards to tPvP. Why should they ALSO be able to so easily take a point. This is just one (extremely powerful) instance of how good this ability is.

Edit – INB4 hurr durr L2Dodge newb. Most of the time they cast it from stealth and so there are literally no visual cues.

You make out that it is 100% effective when it can be dodged and stuff if you die from it well then thats your fault if losing a point is more important then being able to come back 10second later out of Moa and retake it then well in my opinion thats not the abilities fault thats yours.

plus i dont know a single Mesmer that uses it – i have used it ONCE before replacing it with Time Warp

Plus seeing as how OP Bunker Guardians are they SHOULD have a counter…

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

You make out that it is 100% effective when it can be dodged and stuff if you die from it well then thats your fault if losing a point is more important then being able to come back 10second later out of Moa and retake it then well in my opinion thats not the abilities fault thats yours.

plus i dont know a single Mesmer that uses it – i have used it ONCE before replacing it with Time Warp

Plus seeing as how OP Bunker Guardians are they SHOULD have a counter…

For the record, I play engi and staff ele bunkers. Not a guardian.

The problem isn’t so much me vs. a mesmer. It’s me vs. a mesmer and his teammate. I literally die within a few seconds because I can’t use any of my abilities. Also, trying to “retake” a point as a bunker build against 2 is nearly impossible. This ability is too strong (relative to other classes) and there’s no denying it.

As a bunker, even the worst of us should be able to hold a point for five seconds versus two.

Sezu.8564:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

You make out that it is 100% effective when it can be dodged and stuff if you die from it well then thats your fault if losing a point is more important then being able to come back 10second later out of Moa and retake it then well in my opinion thats not the abilities fault thats yours.

plus i dont know a single Mesmer that uses it – i have used it ONCE before replacing it with Time Warp

Plus seeing as how OP Bunker Guardians are they SHOULD have a counter…

For the record, I play engi and staff ele bunkers. Not a guardian.

The problem isn’t so much me vs. a mesmer. It’s me vs. a mesmer and his teammate. I literally die within a few seconds because I can’t use any of my abilities. Also, trying to “retake” a point as a bunker build against 2 is nearly impossible. This ability is too strong (relative to other classes) and there’s no denying it.

As a bunker, even the worst of us should be able to hold a point for five seconds versus two.

so the ability is broken because you are teamed up against? surely that is called team work, if you need help call out for it…

“You obviously don’t play tPvP, your opinion is therefore invalid”

Wow I’m assuming …. no im not just wow haha. How could you not see how important
10 seconds is in tpvp? Like have you not realized in situations like zerging the keep asap the second the game even starts of how important 10 seconds is? or leaving a base undefended to take the lord or kill a boss and instantly change the game around because the other team stole caps instead??
if that mesmer debunks a base and a gaurdian take in to hold it that 10 seconds turns into a 20 -30 second hold which could drastically change the outcome of a game that’s a lot of points… and points are everything. As he said before a good mesmer always casts that elite in stealth so good luck using your “spidey” senses and dodging it cause you can’t unless your foolishly lucky by dodging a mirror auto-cast.

Using moa on a bunker with %% block rate is not that great too …

Just an example, in a spvp game i played earlier there were 2-3 mesmers in other team, i play mesmer too, glasscannon build.

I got moa’d once, and i just ran around the spot (graveyard in legacy of foefire) dodging here and there and didnt really took any but random damage.
Later on, I got moa’d again and i dodged away from the fight area as 2 of them were following me, had to use a heal at the end of moa, more or less like any kiting away move, then went back into the battle.
Near the end of the game, I got cornered by guardian/mesmer/rogue/elem .. and i got moa’d at 30% life or whatever and I did DIE !!
omg moa is op ? or just a not so useful moa on an already dead target at 4v1 ?

Guaranteed kill in that case, yes of course .. Im not saying moa is useless, but not as good as it seems at first glance.

ArmageddonAsh.6430

so the ability is broken because you are teamed up against? surely that is called team work, if you need help call out for it…

No, the ability is broken because literally no other combination of professions besides mesmer + (anything), can take a point from a bunker in that short of time DUE TO that single skill.

A bunker’s job is to hold a point so your team CAN help you. You can’t do that if you only last 5 seconds. Like I said, please get some tPvP experience before you attempt to argue against the fact there of.

CeCaKonVeu.5734:

Using moa on a bunker with %% block rate is not that great too …

Just an example, in a spvp game i played earlier there were 2-3 mesmers in other team, i play mesmer too, glasscannon build.

I got moa’d once, and i just ran around the spot (graveyard in legacy of foefire) dodging here and there and didnt really took any but random damage.
Later on, I got moa’d again and i dodged away from the fight area as 2 of them were following me, had to use a heal at the end of moa, more or less like any kiting away move, then went back into the battle.
Near the end of the game, I got cornered by guardian/mesmer/rogue/elem .. and i got moa’d at 30% life or whatever and I did DIE !!
omg moa is op ? or just a not so useful moa on an already dead target at 4v1 ?

Guaranteed kill in that case, yes of course .. Im not saying moa is useless, but not as good as it seems at first glance.

First off, if you aren’t bringing boon removal as an offensive roamer you’re doing it wrong.

Second, you chose the absolute largest cap point to make a case on. Graveyard gives you so much room to run around and still be on point (which I think is absolutely broken, as with good teams once you have it it’s impossible to lose). Obviously on points where the radius is about 1.5 a dodge roll, Moa morph is MUCH more effective.

You make a valid point as its easier to keep graveyard while dodging around. But i wanted to point out something else …

Maybe for a tanky guardian its convenient to dodge inside the graveyard ….
For a glasscannon build id rather run around the quarry or the waterfall where i can break los every few meters … hence i said i had to dodge here and there to avoid about all incoming damage while moa’d.
If i couldnt dodge i would die in less than 5 seconds, moa’d or not.

CeCaKonVeu.5734:

You make a valid point as its easier to keep graveyard while dodging around. But i wanted to point out something else …

Maybe for a tanky guardian its convenient to dodge inside the graveyard ….
For a glasscannon build id rather run around the quarry or the waterfall where i can break los every few meters … hence i said i had to dodge here and there to avoid about all incoming damage while moa’d.
If i couldnt dodge i would die in less than 5 seconds, moa’d or not.

I’m not talking about glass cannons here. I’m talking about full on defensive/supportive builds that get killed in 5 seconds because you don’t have access to any of your skills (not even utilities for stun breaks, srslywtf).

LoS is not an option on most cap points.

Duration need to be shortened, otherwise fine. 6-7 second range would cut alot of complaints. Or keep the duration and make the target immune to all other forms of control under its effects, heck make it clear all conditions, would lend some skill to the ability on when and how to use it.

I dont care that aoe quickness and aoe stealth are even more crazy. Those are also amazing arguments btw, kek.

10sec CC just feels archaic, like some mmo from 2004. Looking at most other spells in the game they have much shorter CC effects, only cripple coming close in duration which is still at most 50% as long in most cases. This is one of the reasons why we like this game over the other mmo’s! Imagine the whines if people had access to 10 second immobilizes which you cant even remove. Actually im sure elementalists would LOVE that and apperantly its totally fair. As it is right now they would jump a hole through the roof if they could just use a simple utility skill in their elite slot instead.
It stands out like a sore thumb, this moa spell.

insert other mesmer elite whines for good measure

Get rid of moa, give us wvwvw mesmers another useful option. :p Sorry wrong forum!

Mesmers that use Moa usually go full glass cannon (there’s no such thing as a glass Mesmer, so let’s say high power), play defensively until they have the phantasms up and once your life goes low enough, Moa>Illusionary leap>Blurred Frenzy and maybe Mind Blast and you WILL go down. If anything Moa is too effective as a kill assist (even worse with help from a team mate), while it should ony be used to take someone out of the fight (and even then it’s a little too long for how fast people usually die in this game), it’s just too effective while used offensively.

To those saying “I haven’t died while in Moa in a while” Do you even play tournies?

I propose the next, you recieve half damage while in moa, duration shortned to 8 seconds.

You know, the complaint that it hard counters bunker builds has actually put me int a situation where I might think it needs to stay as opposed to being removed entirely.

Right now, aside from Moa, bunker builds have no hard counters, not in the manner of which that causes the bunker to fail at its objective. And to be frank, there needs to be that in the sPvP game. I’d argue there needs to be MORE of that to place bunker builds back on the level of other build types.

It’s a 3 minute cooldown, which makes it very unwieldy to use beyond a single purpose. Lowering its duration would likely come at a lower recharge rate which would make things even worse for bunkers. (It doesn’t take even 5 seconds to kill a Moa trying to stand on most points.)

On a side note, glass cannon thieves seem to be thinning in number now, that’s a good sign.

Necros and Scepter eles counter bunkers pretty good. In fact, there’s another thread in this very section complaining about just that.

Go figure, people complaining about their counters.

I am mesmer and i have finally neglected it. All the elite skills of mesmer are seriously not that good. I will exclude from discussion the one that gives you stealth because i find it almost useless in 1v1 pvp, may have some points in organized tpvp.

The moa bird as someone pointed has a long cast time, you can’t move and it can be dodged, blocked, interrupted or the enemy can run out of sight or out of range. In short it’s a pain in the kitten to effectively throw it down.

Once the other guy is polimorphed he can still flee so it gets mitigated since the biggest damage a mesmer can perform is with melee blade, keep in mind that the mesmer does not have an spamable snare/root like other classes have so it’s easy for them to flee if not executed properly.

It has a very long cooldown so you have to learn to live without it, i almost never used it, apart from being so lame.

In short, it can be easily countered and it’s only effective if you care about the timing of the opponent heal and you cast it right before so you can finish him.

About the AoE speed burst: It’s very situational, it can be extremely OP or not. If you drop it say on the graveyard on forest while fighting 3v3 yes, odds are that you savage the other team. But if you force the other to exit the area it becomes useless. Mesmer does not have a very high damage by himself, excluding the 2h sword which i don’t find very good in Spvp so it gets countered quite easy.

If you got moa’ed – you deserve to facetank all the damage that will come in the next 10seconds. Its not like it has a huge and long telegraph animation, that can either be dodged, interrupted, or alternatively you could just kill the mesmer while he is attempting to polymorph you.

And then, if you actually DO facetank all the damage that will come to you in the next 10seconds, you DO deserve to die. Out of the few times I have offensively moa’ed someone, probably less then 20% ended in a kill – once that my immobilize+phantasms+frenzy+shatter combo would probably win anyway. The other 80% players either run away, los’ed, dodged, or simply their teammates – yes this is a team game – suddenly made themselves more important to help their moa’ed friend.

In short, this skill is rather well balanced, considering the fact that it has very long cooldown, can easilly be dodged or interrupted, and even if it lands, its only a soft disable, allowing you enough control to actually make the spell wasted anyway.

The only reason people complain about is the psychological aspect of getting their kitten handed to them while being a giant pink chicken, completly ignoring the fact that this outcome was probably not chicken-dependant as much as they would like to pretend.