Guild Wars 2

Hey guys, is it just me or is mesmer’s #2 skill while downed in need of a fix? I realize that our class mechanic is illusions and using them to fight, but when we are downed and use said skill, the first thing to show itself is our illusion and only then do we appear. And if that isn’t obvious enough then our downed bodies have a red arrow pointing at us that the downed illusion does not. This makes it painfully obvious which one is the player and the illusion. I feel that if the illusion and the player were revealed one after the other randomly and without an arrow above the player (or an arrow above the illusion as well) the skill could be used to much greater effect. What do you guys think? Thanks in advance for reading.

Sounds an awfull lot like Thief downed skills # 2&3 combined, but without the damage dealing illusion.

I don’t mind having the illusion come first because sometimes it’s hard to tell in a team fight. But the big fat red arrow telling others that you are the real one is annoying

At least the mesmers get 1 free “you can’t stomp me yet!” some of us get stomped with just a little stability.

Mesmer downed state 2 is like, the best downed state 2 attack there is, after elementalist.

It’s easy to see why stealthing and moving a random 400 distance is harder to stomp than preventing a stomp by shooting a measly interrupt projectile (Warrior, Ranger, Necro, Engineer, Guardian).

• Your stealth cannot miss. Therefore, you can’t be countered by: Blind, Aegis, Stability, Invulnerability, a dodge roll.

• You often port right out of the downed cleave on you, in teamfights, and are in stealth for ez-mode revives. It angers me when I’m cleaving where the Mesmer went down and suddenly I see 2 enemies start reviving their invisible ally .. right behind me, and then it’s too late.

A superior downed state 2 skill, if anything. Get some perspective.

Chaith.8256:

Mesmer downed state 2 is like, the best downed state 2 attack there is, after elementalist.

It’s easy to see why stealthing and moving a random 400 distance is harder to stomp than preventing a stomp by shooting a measly interrupt projectile (Warrior, Ranger, Necro, Engineer, Guardian).

• Your stealth cannot miss. Therefore, you can’t be countered by: Blind, Aegis, Stability, Invulnerability, a dodge roll.

• You often port right out of the downed cleave on you, in teamfights, and are in stealth for ez-mode revives. It angers me when I’m cleaving where the Mesmer went down and suddenly I see 2 enemies start reviving their invisible ally .. right behind me, and then it’s too late.

A superior downed state 2 skill, if anything. Get some perspective.

Agreed

The only things, I’d like to fix on Mesmers downed state #2 is a better control off where you get ported.
Sometimes, in Khylo get ported up the clocktower which is actually quiete nice, up as much as the skill brings you in “out of LoS” position, as much you get ported into AoEs etc.

I know that the arrow is annoying, but I think, without the arrow It would be a little unfair, as your enemy will get much bigger difficulties with finding the real one. Yes, this is good, but also probably OP.

I’ve survived fights because of my downed skill moving me into a position where the enemy couldn’t actually find me, leaving me to self-res. Behind walls, up cliffs…

I don’t like RNG the Downed Skill, but I can’t say any other classes’ downed skills have saved them without the help of their team. Besides, it’s a threefold effect:

1. You move. Just because you can’t control where and how far doesn’t negate that it usually gets you out of a stomp.
2. You stealth, causing the enemy to drop target. I think you also gain the effects of Prismatic Understanding here.
3. You spawn a clone that attacks. This creates some screen clutter for the enemy to sort through, confuses your target(which will do damage on stomp attempts, which does occasionally bring them down with you and interrupt a stomp if you also attack and stack confusion), and for less-experienced enemies, can buy another second or two.

On top of that, our downed skill #3 is one of the highest-damaging things we have. Phantasmal Rogue does HUGE damage, and if the enemy doesn’t want to deal with it, they have to spend another second or two to take it down rather than stomp. If they do that… well, then we can just use downed skill #2 again.

Downed #2 can feel worthless on your bad days, and downright OP on your best days. The only thing I want them to “fix” is to not require a target, but stealth stomps can be seen as a counter-play to it, so I doubt that will ever happen.

Eh, the big red arrow is really what gives it away. However, mesmers still have a really good downed state. Since it de-targets you from enemies, you can’t just use a normal teleport to follow the location like you can with a thief. The temporary stealth also prevents even a ground targeted teleport from landing unless the downed ability is used too early and even then it’s a test of reflexes to spot the point of reappearance, then point and click before the stomp animation finishes.

Really, having any sort of downed state that isn’t directly countered by stability is a blessing right now.

Why is the big red arrow a big deal?

You’ve already avoided a stomp, likely gotten out of harm’s way, and probably got 1-2 seconds of additional stealth out of it.

Perhaps you would suggest you just stay un-detected for longer? Lol. Perhaps remove the arrow so the downed player would have a 50/50 chance in avoiding a second stomp?

The arrow is there for a reason.. to avoid the skill from becoming even more superior than it is already. This thread doesn’t really have a leg to stand on, imo.

I was thinking that in addition to stealthing the Mesmer, instead of cloning yourself, it would summon an illusion of Zhaitan, and spawn 6 cannons in which the enemy team would have to interact with to kill the illusion of Zhaitan, so the Mesmer gets revealed.

What do you guys think?

I don’t see the point of the clone at all. Since it doesn’t do any damage I have to assume the initial intent was to try to fool the enemy. Nobody is fooled by it. The red arrow should probably go and it should spawn at the same time as the real mesmer.

If that would be too OP, then just get rid of the pointless clone.

If it was me, I’d get rid of the clone and no longer require a target to cast it. It would basically be just like thief #2 then, except you can’t control where you land, and your 3 skill can’t stop a stomp, so definitely not OP.

Solstice.1097:

I don’t see the point of the clone at all. Since it doesn’t do any damage I have to assume the initial intent was to try to fool the enemy. Nobody is fooled by it. The red arrow should probably go and it should spawn at the same time as the real mesmer.

If that would be too OP, then just get rid of the pointless clone.

If it was me, I’d get rid of the clone and no longer require a target to cast it. It would basically be just like thief #2 then, except you can’t control where you land, and your 3 skill can’t stop a stomp, so definitely not OP.

they are giving the red arrow to clone next patch

Is the 2nd best downed state getting a buff as simon says?

The #2 is by far the most important one… if you can’t prevent that first stomp your #3 doesn’t even matter.

Multiple classes still going to just have a single target cc for their #2 which is countered by everything under the sun like blind/block/stability/player behind another player/behind a pet/tiny little rock that somehow causes it to be obstructed?

What the kitten.

i didn’t know the mesmer down clone is getting an arrow… i keep trying to find all the patch notes but apparently still haven’t seen them all….

but if it still shows up first it won’t really matter.

vs anything with stability or blind it’s still better than war, guard, necro, ranger, engi.

it’s no secret that the classes that go down the easiest have the best downed skills.

Chaith.8256:

Mesmer downed state 2 is like, the best downed state 2 attack there is, after elementalist.

It’s easy to see why stealthing and moving a random 400 distance is harder to stomp than preventing a stomp by shooting a measly interrupt projectile (Warrior, Ranger, Necro, Engineer, Guardian).

• Your stealth cannot miss. Therefore, you can’t be countered by: Blind, Aegis, Stability, Invulnerability, a dodge roll.

• You often port right out of the downed cleave on you, in teamfights, and are in stealth for ez-mode revives. It angers me when I’m cleaving where the Mesmer went down and suddenly I see 2 enemies start reviving their invisible ally .. right behind me, and then it’s too late.

A superior downed state 2 skill, if anything. Get some perspective.

I’ve probably stomped 5000 mesmers and more often than not if i reset the stomp before they hit 2 the stomp will still land on them, it’s more like a 25% chance that they will port out of stomp range. Still a strong skill since they are guaranteed to last the longest while downed.

Zirith.6429:

Chaith.8256:

Mesmer downed state 2 is like, the best downed state 2 attack there is, after elementalist.

It’s easy to see why stealthing and moving a random 400 distance is harder to stomp than preventing a stomp by shooting a measly interrupt projectile (Warrior, Ranger, Necro, Engineer, Guardian).

• Your stealth cannot miss. Therefore, you can’t be countered by: Blind, Aegis, Stability, Invulnerability, a dodge roll.

• You often port right out of the downed cleave on you, in teamfights, and are in stealth for ez-mode revives. It angers me when I’m cleaving where the Mesmer went down and suddenly I see 2 enemies start reviving their invisible ally .. right behind me, and then it’s too late.

A superior downed state 2 skill, if anything. Get some perspective.

I’ve probably stomped 5000 mesmers and more often than not if i reset the stomp before they hit 2 the stomp will still land on them, it’s more like a 25% chance that they will port out of stomp range. Still a strong skill since they are guaranteed to last the longest while downed.

You don’t know when the Mesmer is going to use Deception. It could be an early deception, or right as you go to stomp. If you get the right read, then yes, there’s – I would say about a 50/50 chance that Mesmer is dead. This stomping method depends on player skill and has an element of RNG attached.

Remember, that even if you start stomping, and .5 seconds before finishing, you get a perfect pre-cast on the Mesmer’s deception, he already is going to live until that second stomp finishes. That’s a guaranteed stay of execution for 5.5 seconds after going down. Around the same as if you ate the interrupt from Warrior/Ranger/Guardian/Necro/Engineer. Don’t you see? Deception isn’t even worse than other downed state #2 skills, even if your enemy reads the Mesmer, and perfectly pre-cast stomps the Mesmer 25% of the time.

Chaith.8256:

Zirith.6429:

Chaith.8256:

Mesmer downed state 2 is like, the best downed state 2 attack there is, after elementalist.

It’s easy to see why stealthing and moving a random 400 distance is harder to stomp than preventing a stomp by shooting a measly interrupt projectile (Warrior, Ranger, Necro, Engineer, Guardian).

• Your stealth cannot miss. Therefore, you can’t be countered by: Blind, Aegis, Stability, Invulnerability, a dodge roll.

• You often port right out of the downed cleave on you, in teamfights, and are in stealth for ez-mode revives. It angers me when I’m cleaving where the Mesmer went down and suddenly I see 2 enemies start reviving their invisible ally .. right behind me, and then it’s too late.

A superior downed state 2 skill, if anything. Get some perspective.

I’ve probably stomped 5000 mesmers and more often than not if i reset the stomp before they hit 2 the stomp will still land on them, it’s more like a 25% chance that they will port out of stomp range. Still a strong skill since they are guaranteed to last the longest while downed.

You don’t know when the Mesmer is going to use Deception. It could be an early deception, or right as you go to stomp. If you get the right read, then yes, there’s – I would say about a 50/50 chance that Mesmer is dead. This stomping method depends on player skill and has an element of RNG attached.

Remember, that even if you start stomping, and .5 seconds before finishing, you get a perfect pre-cast on the Mesmer’s deception, he already is going to live until that second stomp finishes. That’s a guaranteed stay of execution for 5.5 seconds after going down. Around the same as if you ate the interrupt from Warrior/Ranger/Guardian/Necro/Engineer. Don’t you see? Deception isn’t even worse than other downed state #2 skills, even if your enemy reads the Mesmer, and perfectly pre-cast stomps the Mesmer 25% of the time.

Yup, mesmers are probably the second hardest class to stomp, next to eles (depending on your access to stability/teleports).

Chaith.8256:

Mesmer downed state 2 is like, the best downed state 2 attack there is, after elementalist.

It’s easy to see why stealthing and moving a random 400 distance is harder to stomp than preventing a stomp by shooting a measly interrupt projectile (Warrior, Ranger, Necro, Engineer, Guardian).

• Your stealth cannot miss. Therefore, you can’t be countered by: Blind, Aegis, Stability, Invulnerability, a dodge roll.

• You often port right out of the downed cleave on you, in teamfights, and are in stealth for ez-mode revives. It angers me when I’m cleaving where the Mesmer went down and suddenly I see 2 enemies start reviving their invisible ally .. right behind me, and then it’s too late.

A superior downed state 2 skill, if anything. Get some perspective.

+1

thief and ele are better down state than mesmer. mesmer is better than the rest. if you look at the hardest classes to kill, the best down states are in basically the opposite order of that.

Solstice.1097:

thief and ele are better down state than mesmer. mesmer is better than the rest. if you look at the hardest classes to kill, the best down states are in basically the opposite order of that.

You said the exact same thing 5 hrs ago, lol. For the record, Thieves, Eles and Mesmers can be much harder to kill than other professions, depending on how they’re built. * Shrug*.

Chaith.8256:

Zirith.6429:

Chaith.8256:

Mesmer downed state 2 is like, the best downed state 2 attack there is, after elementalist.

It’s easy to see why stealthing and moving a random 400 distance is harder to stomp than preventing a stomp by shooting a measly interrupt projectile (Warrior, Ranger, Necro, Engineer, Guardian).

• Your stealth cannot miss. Therefore, you can’t be countered by: Blind, Aegis, Stability, Invulnerability, a dodge roll.

• You often port right out of the downed cleave on you, in teamfights, and are in stealth for ez-mode revives. It angers me when I’m cleaving where the Mesmer went down and suddenly I see 2 enemies start reviving their invisible ally .. right behind me, and then it’s too late.

A superior downed state 2 skill, if anything. Get some perspective.

I’ve probably stomped 5000 mesmers and more often than not if i reset the stomp before they hit 2 the stomp will still land on them, it’s more like a 25% chance that they will port out of stomp range. Still a strong skill since they are guaranteed to last the longest while downed.

You don’t know when the Mesmer is going to use Deception. It could be an early deception, or right as you go to stomp. If you get the right read, then yes, there’s – I would say about a 50/50 chance that Mesmer is dead. This stomping method depends on player skill and has an element of RNG attached.

Remember, that even if you start stomping, and .5 seconds before finishing, you get a perfect pre-cast on the Mesmer’s deception, he already is going to live until that second stomp finishes. That’s a guaranteed stay of execution for 5.5 seconds after going down. Around the same as if you ate the interrupt from Warrior/Ranger/Guardian/Necro/Engineer. Don’t you see? Deception isn’t even worse than other downed state #2 skills, even if your enemy reads the Mesmer, and perfectly pre-cast stomps the Mesmer 25% of the time.

Ya, I agreed that the mesmer downstate is really good, I’m just disagreeing with you on how often they can be stomped reliably after a teleport.

I usually cancel my stomp after 85% of the cast, it seems to get people most of the time, but ur right there is the meta game of ppl just not stealthing and playing chicken with the stomper so on some people you have to cancel and restart it in the last instant which is really satisfying.

But lets be real here, mesmers are pretty garbage atm since they lose to almost every class 1v1 and in teamfights the clones get cleaved before they can do anything useful, I barely ever see mesmers in arena anymore.