Guild Wars 2

I vote we rename the game according to the current state, after all, every pvp match is more or less a presentation of the same clone mesmer. Lets just remove this annoying other classes, and everyone plays mesmer. In the end, out of the last 15 games played none was with less than 5 mesmers, mostly one ele and rarely a necro. It is rather amusing to see up to 15 enemy heroes in front of you and die in seconds.

No seriously now… There have to be some changes in the current PvP status… the damage is way too high, the survability way too low and some classes are just way stronger than others. I always thought, GW 2 was a PvP focused game, but with this Mesmer inflation and the excessive Burst amount of some classes, the PvP matches are more frustrating than anything else.

I dont want to just cry around, but also explain some ideas, which might improve the gaming experience.
First of, reducing the damage again, it should not be possible to kill a celestial player in less than 3 sek.

The mesmer with his illusions need a serious revamp. Even if you actually get the first hit, he either goes invis, summons several decoys or just plainly burst you down. I dont actually know, how anyone can win against a mesmer in the current game.

Maybe someone can tell me, if there is a real strategy, because i dont see any chance enjoying pvp when i am most of the time jusLiebscheching after the slaying animation.

I vote Anet changes the game name to “Mesmer Wars 2” so befitting.

I knew this was coming now let’s wait for the other mesmers to bite the bait.

yeah, mesmer is too op currently. but I think anet purposely made mes in that way cuz mes were out of any tourney team formation so far. but it is also clear that anet do make something op to make something familiar, just like we saw from celementalist. But this kinda action anet doing is actually sad rather than letting users decide to make a form of what kinda team.

Cos ppl thing Mesmer is FOTM cos of OP, but it not, its anynnoing profession with different style than others.

Its funny how broken mesmer is in HotJoins/unranked and totaly not picked in TPvP!!

With everythink i read about all QQ, crys, laments about Mesmers.. they should be insta picked in Turneys.. but gues what! they are not!!!

Warriors with Eles and broken to the bone, and yet ppl complain about Mesmer…

Mesmer just dominate new players, or players that suck at PvP. Beside playing main on Mesmer i play also Thief and Ele, and i dont have any problems to deal with Mesmers, esp FOTM Mesmers how thing they can faceroll keybord to be effective.

Yep. My most hated profession to fight is currently everywhere. I’m not touching HoTM with a 10foot pole until the Mesmer inflation cools down. At least in WvW I can nope the other way if I see one.

On that note, today in EBG, after we had taken NSP’s keep, there was a group of them outside. About 10 I counted from the walls. Guess how many were Mesmers out of that 10? All but one, lol.

online.1278:

yeah, mesmer is too op currently. but I think anet purposely made mes in that way cuz mes were out of any tourney team formation so far. but it is also clear that anet do make something op to make something familiar, just like we saw from celementalist. But this kinda action anet doing is actually sad rather than letting users decide to make a form of what kinda team.

LOL… How funny of you to spread such misinformation.

Mesmers were in WTS and TOL all the time.
Ranger is the only class that doesn’t show up in TOL3 top 8 teams.
Necro is almost on the same boat, but at least they do present in a few quantity.
How come I don’t see ranger got the OP buff treatment, but rather nerf all around? (except for LB, BM line and WS)
Guess Anet HATE HATE HATE ranger so very much.

Aomine.5012:

online.1278:

yeah, mesmer is too op currently. but I think anet purposely made mes in that way cuz mes were out of any tourney team formation so far. but it is also clear that anet do make something op to make something familiar, just like we saw from celementalist. But this kinda action anet doing is actually sad rather than letting users decide to make a form of what kinda team.

LOL… How funny of you to spread such misinformation.

Mesmers were in WTS and TOL all the time.
Ranger is the only class that doesn’t show up in TOL3 top 8 teams.
Necro is almost on the same boat, but at least they do present in a few quantity.
How come I don’t see ranger got the OP buff treatment, but rather nerf all around? (except for LB, BM line and WS)
Guess Anet HATE HATE HATE ranger so very much.

The abjured and Nos say knock knock. Necro has been used quite a bit thanks to them.
However for quite a while especially once DUMBfire was initially introduced mesmers were considered not viable at all. And they were only slowly brought back in by mesmer players that were the most hardcore mesmer players.
Lets not forget the spirit ranger nightmare that was also around the same time as dumbfire.

Please. Every class has had their chance at the top of the pedestal. It’s mesmer’s turn. Come off it.

jportell.2197:

Aomine.5012:

online.1278:

yeah, mesmer is too op currently. but I think anet purposely made mes in that way cuz mes were out of any tourney team formation so far. but it is also clear that anet do make something op to make something familiar, just like we saw from celementalist. But this kinda action anet doing is actually sad rather than letting users decide to make a form of what kinda team.

LOL… How funny of you to spread such misinformation.

Mesmers were in WTS and TOL all the time.
Ranger is the only class that doesn’t show up in TOL3 top 8 teams.
Necro is almost on the same boat, but at least they do present in a few quantity.
How come I don’t see ranger got the OP buff treatment, but rather nerf all around? (except for LB, BM line and WS)
Guess Anet HATE HATE HATE ranger so very much.

The abjured and Nos say knock knock. Necro has been used quite a bit thanks to them.
However for quite a while especially once DUMBfire was initially introduced mesmers were considered not viable at all. And they were only slowly brought back in by mesmer players that were the most hardcore mesmer players.
Lets not forget the spirit ranger nightmare that was also around the same time as dumbfire.

Please. Every class has had their chance at the top of the pedestal. It’s mesmer’s turn. Come off it.

As far as I know, Mesmer, Ele, Warrior, Thief, Guardian,Engineer have been enjoying for the past one year after the April 2014 balance patch hit.

Ranger has been worthless since that update in ALL game modes. However after this patch, ranger is still worthless in all game modes, aside from solo roaming in WvW. So how does that make any sense?

Aomine.5012:

As far as I know, Mesmer, Ele, Warrior, Thief, Guardian,Engineer have been enjoying for the past one year after the April 2014 balance patch hit.

Mesmer hasn’t been meta in PvP since the first large balance patch before the game was even a year old.

How soon we forget last patch was ranger wars. The dps was turned up to make the game feel more optimized, and gain specialization huggers. When they turn it down all we will be left with is fewer choices.

I vote we rename it to Maybe If You Put On a Zerk Amulet and Heartseeker Right into Someone’s Face You Should Expect to Get Schooled Wars 2.

erm i disagree. yes there are a lot of mesmers, but it will normalize. most of us havent played our mes for a long time, because before patch, we were more of a burden than actual teamplayers and in wvw i was a kitten veilbot. all they needed in 1 zerg of 40 people was 1 – 2 (MAX) mesmers for veil and feedback(after ranger buff). Now i can actually have fun after ive used my veil and deal dmg omg! btw the rest of the zerg was the GWEN meta. Now in spvp I’d get 2222 spammed by theif, perma immobilized and rapid fired down and then there was the eles after they buffed them. fact is, mes was in a bad spot, fact also is, now all mesmers come out and play now that they are allowed to feel more powerful. how about waiting, trying to adjust your build and then see how things play out over the next few weeks? MESMERS have been doing that for a very long time now.

i have been playing for years …

mesmer has always been the most easiest class to play.

i personally don’t like the class but i made it to deal old PU back in the day.

they can hit from 1200 range , spamming AI and go stealth. also with the buff on blink, mesmer’s mobile ability even go higher. It’s basically very easy to play next right to the old glorious warrior

I made this nifty and complicated graph to show how I felt about mesmers as of late.

Ryld.1340:

I made this nifty and complicated graph to show how I felt about mesmers as of late.

I’ve had the complete opposite experience

I have been playing ranger almost since the start (2 month later because it was sold out). I never played spirit ranger, because this just doesnt seem like a true ranger. I can cope with warrior trought kitting, with rogues through evade and burst, i can deal with engis and i can survive guardians… i even can outlast necros although it is harder if they are mm. But i dont know any means against a mesmer or in part a ele.

Mesmer have stealth (torch and utility), a heal without a relevant cd (mantra), insane amount of damage in every distance, teleport, immunity (distortion), alot of pike damage with the shatter and on top of all, almost inlimited accesabilites to clones, which can get really confusing, due to the fact, that after a while you dont even know which one is the real if 3 identical mesmer are shooting at you. If you pick wrong, you destroy one and the real one just kills you, if you pick right, he just goes invis or similar and rinse and repeat, alot of confusion skills which do heavy damage, several possibilities to stun and illusions which follow you to the end of the earth, dealing quite alot of damage, they are the perfect fire and forget skills as they dont run out.

Lets compare this to the lb gs ranger. We got a stealth which can actually be evaded and needs a target, a pushback, a burst skill which can also be evaded or even blocked with los, a pet which dies really fast in heavy aoe (like shatter). On the plus side we got a nice aoe root (not helpful against ranged classes though), a short time invulnerability, and some dodges, again, less helpful against ranged as you always dodge right back.

I actually tried to play the mesmer (never had one before) and even as a noob mesmer after only reading the skills and the traits, i managed to stay top or second on most of the games (except my team had more mesmers).

Regarding ele… I think they are very strong but have a higher skill cap to fully bring out the potential, my tries with them resultet in a huge and bitter fail

The amount of misinformation in this thread is hilarious. Every mesmer these guys ever met must have been playing the infamous 66666 build.

El Espanol.1950:

First of, reducing the damage again, it should not be possible to kill a celestial player in less than 3 sek.

If damage was reduced, bunker guardian would be immortal. Mine’s already very decent at migrating damage and conditions. And damage reduction will give rise to bunker wars 2, thus regressing itself to the previous meta’s prolonged fights.

serenke.4806:

The amount of misinformation in this thread is hilarious. Every mesmer these guys ever met must have been playing the infamous 66666 build.

Yeah, the hyperbole is getting a bit silly now.

jportell.2197:

Aomine.5012:

online.1278:

yeah, mesmer is too op currently. but I think anet purposely made mes in that way cuz mes were out of any tourney team formation so far. but it is also clear that anet do make something op to make something familiar, just like we saw from celementalist. But this kinda action anet doing is actually sad rather than letting users decide to make a form of what kinda team.

LOL… How funny of you to spread such misinformation.

Mesmers were in WTS and TOL all the time.
Ranger is the only class that doesn’t show up in TOL3 top 8 teams.
Necro is almost on the same boat, but at least they do present in a few quantity.
How come I don’t see ranger got the OP buff treatment, but rather nerf all around? (except for LB, BM line and WS)
Guess Anet HATE HATE HATE ranger so very much.

The abjured and Nos say knock knock. Necro has been used quite a bit thanks to them.
However for quite a while especially once DUMBfire was initially introduced mesmers were considered not viable at all. And they were only slowly brought back in by mesmer players that were the most hardcore mesmer players.
Lets not forget the spirit ranger nightmare that was also around the same time as dumbfire.

Please. Every class has had their chance at the top of the pedestal. It’s mesmer’s turn. Come off it.

I am very confused about all the people always saying mes wasn’t viable. It was always viable before the latest patch. Helseth? Misha? Frostball? You just had to be very exceptional because d/p thief basically hard countered it. A great mesmer was always wanted because portal is such a game changing invaluable tool, the only problem was you had to be a great mesmer. Professions like necro and ranger only dreamed of being where mesmers were at before the latest patch viability wise.

I am honestly baffled how people act like mesmers have been bad for years. You may have only had one viable top tier pvp build, but it was always viable and always useful if you were good enough to play it.

Also to nitpick on the necro thing, Nos was the only person who bothered playing necro because it had so many problems. You literally saw no one but him. Dhuumfire was around for maybe a month, while engineers kept IP for years. Shatter mesmer has been around for years as well, but you try to take one player, and one build that barely lasted and try to say mesmers had it worse?

Your victimization is outstanding.

Back on topic Mesmers are over the top atm, but I’d prefer a damage overall nerf before we start tinkering with traits and skills for any profession. I’m not seeing 5 a game still, normally 2 maybe 3.

L Step.8659:

jportell.2197:

Aomine.5012:

online.1278:

yeah, mesmer is too op currently. but I think anet purposely made mes in that way cuz mes were out of any tourney team formation so far. but it is also clear that anet do make something op to make something familiar, just like we saw from celementalist. But this kinda action anet doing is actually sad rather than letting users decide to make a form of what kinda team.

LOL… How funny of you to spread such misinformation.

Mesmers were in WTS and TOL all the time.
Ranger is the only class that doesn’t show up in TOL3 top 8 teams.
Necro is almost on the same boat, but at least they do present in a few quantity.
How come I don’t see ranger got the OP buff treatment, but rather nerf all around? (except for LB, BM line and WS)
Guess Anet HATE HATE HATE ranger so very much.

The abjured and Nos say knock knock. Necro has been used quite a bit thanks to them.
However for quite a while especially once DUMBfire was initially introduced mesmers were considered not viable at all. And they were only slowly brought back in by mesmer players that were the most hardcore mesmer players.
Lets not forget the spirit ranger nightmare that was also around the same time as dumbfire.

Please. Every class has had their chance at the top of the pedestal. It’s mesmer’s turn. Come off it.

I am very confused about all the people always saying mes wasn’t viable. It was always viable before the latest patch. Helseth? Misha? Frostball? You just had to be very exceptional because d/p thief basically hard countered it.

Your victimization is outstanding.

It’s very funny that you mention helseth and misha, Frostball hasn’t been in the competitive area for long enough to talk about how “mes and long term viability.”,

However, for 2 ToL’s Misha on 55 HP Monk’s played thief not mesmer, Helseth and Supcutie openly admitted several times that they knew them being on mesmer was more of a liability than if they had played something else. The only mesmer in WTS Boston was Supcutie, and the only reason he played mesmer is because he and Eura were going for a weird “ranged burst experiment.”

And the argument that mesmer was always viable, you just have to play at a Helseth level of good to make it viable, is about the worst argument you could make. So because that one person made it barely viable playing perfectly at the highest level of play means it should have been viable in all tiers of play in every players hands.

Honestly, your ignorance is astounding.

The way I see it, if you’re bringing up people like Helseth your argument becomes null and void nearly instantly. Why? Imagine if he had dedicated himself to any other profession, like, say, a Thief. He would be just as good, if not better (in the pre-patch “meta”, hard to say meta since it would be a different meta since he wasn’t playing Mesmer).

Yes, if you’re playing a profession at near-perfection using all sorts of extreme forethought and counterplay, you’re going to succeed, even if your profession itself is not as good as others. It’s basically just counterplay. I know it’s a bit off topic, but maybe you should check out the Super Smash Bros meta and it’s volatility.

Esplen.3940:

The way I see it, if you’re bringing up people like Helseth your argument becomes null and void nearly instantly. Why? Imagine if he had dedicated himself to any other profession, like, say, a Thief. He would be just as good, if not better (in the pre-patch “meta”, hard to say meta since it would be a different meta since he wasn’t playing Mesmer).

Yes, if you’re playing a profession at near-perfection using all sorts of extreme forethought and counterplay, you’re going to succeed, even if your profession itself is not as good as others. It’s basically just counterplay. I know it’s a bit off topic, but maybe you should check out the Super Smash Bros meta and it’s volatility.

Human biases never ceased to amaze me.

Just because someone is good at playing something automatically equates to “he must be good at playing other professions equally as good”?

There’s not even a correlation in it can’t you see? It is only YOUR assumption, and so far there’s no proof or relationship to back you up.

Also, you are saying the “small sample” of Mesmer being good does not justify the viability of Mesmer, but suddenly that same “small sample” of vocal elitists’ opinion of Mesmer being a liability suddenly justify Mesmer = unviable? The double-standard is real.

Mesmer is not unviable, it is just that the popular thief roaming around high-tier competitive play unfortunately hard-counter Mesmer. Just like so many other professions hard-counter ranger that no-one bother to use it, it’s the same logic. Now thief can’t stop you, and so does any other zerk classes. I suspect that is what you meant by viable, that you can counter all zerk classes now.

You missed the point entirely.

Just because something has a higher skill ceiling than it’s counterparts does not inherently make it better than the counterparts. Mesmer has a high skill floor and a ridiculous high skill ceiling. The other professions can take advantage of the knowledge and tactics used at very, very high level Mesmer play in addition to their strengths.

Simply stating that a Mesmer is OP because Helseth is OP at Mesmer (or Misha or Frostball or whoever you want to bring up) is not entirely accurate. All that you can say for certain is that that player is good at the profession and plays well. Now, it’s possible for them to overpower their opponents, but that does not inherently mean that their profession is overpowered in relation to their opponents professions.

Let’s say that ANet releases a new Profession called the Commando. Most (if not all) people avoid the Commando and don’t play them due to playstyle tastes. However, there is a dedicated Commando community, although they aren’t very good at playing MMOs and play poorly. Tournaments come and go and in each Tournament players rarely see Commandos and the ones that do appear don’t tend to make any impact at all. Does that mean that Commandos are underpowered? Does that mean that Commandos need to get buffed?

Esplen.3940:

You missed the point entirely.

Just because something has a higher skill ceiling than it’s counterparts does not inherently make it better than the counterparts. Mesmer has a high skill floor and a ridiculous high skill ceiling. The other professions can take advantage of the knowledge and tactics used at very, very high level Mesmer play in addition to their strengths.

Simply stating that a Mesmer is OP because Helseth is OP at Mesmer (or Misha or Frostball or whoever you want to bring up) is not entirely accurate. All that you can say for certain is that that player is good at the profession and plays well. Now, it’s possible for them to overpower their opponents, but that does not inherently mean that their profession is overpowered in relation to their opponents professions.

Let’s say that ANet releases a new Profession called the Commando. Most (if not all) people avoid the Commando and don’t play them due to playstyle tastes. However, there is a dedicated Commando community, although they aren’t very good at playing MMOs and play poorly. Tournaments come and go and in each Tournament players rarely see Commandos and the ones that do appear don’t tend to make any impact at all. Does that mean that Commandos are underpowered? Does that mean that Commandos need to get buffed?

The main point I was trying to make is the unique things that mesmers have now they always have had and it’s always the reason to have wanted them. The profession wasn’t hated beyond belief, if played at a very high level it was nice and useful. Before the core specs they had portal, they had moa, they had great incombat active defense, they had great burst, the d/p thief just hard countered it, but even great mesmers could beat them.

Right now they overpower almost any other zerk spec so it’s a lower skill cap to be viable, but the things that are making it unique and useful it has always had.

L Step.8659:

Esplen.3940:

You missed the point entirely.

Just because something has a higher skill ceiling than it’s counterparts does not inherently make it better than the counterparts. Mesmer has a high skill floor and a ridiculous high skill ceiling. The other professions can take advantage of the knowledge and tactics used at very, very high level Mesmer play in addition to their strengths.

Simply stating that a Mesmer is OP because Helseth is OP at Mesmer (or Misha or Frostball or whoever you want to bring up) is not entirely accurate. All that you can say for certain is that that player is good at the profession and plays well. Now, it’s possible for them to overpower their opponents, but that does not inherently mean that their profession is overpowered in relation to their opponents professions.

Let’s say that ANet releases a new Profession called the Commando. Most (if not all) people avoid the Commando and don’t play them due to playstyle tastes. However, there is a dedicated Commando community, although they aren’t very good at playing MMOs and play poorly. Tournaments come and go and in each Tournament players rarely see Commandos and the ones that do appear don’t tend to make any impact at all. Does that mean that Commandos are underpowered? Does that mean that Commandos need to get buffed?

The main point I was trying to make is the unique things that mesmers have now they always have had and it’s always the reason to have wanted them. The profession wasn’t hated beyond belief, if played at a very high level it was nice and useful. Before the core specs they had portal, they had moa, they had great incombat active defense, they had great burst, the d/p thief just hard countered it, but even great mesmers could beat them.

Right now they overpower almost any other zerk spec so it’s a lower skill cap to be viable, but the things that are making it unique and useful it has always had.

As already pointed out by few replies above, naming few well known, highly skilled players in tournaments that have played Mesmers doesn’t justify your statement that Mesmers was viable pre-patch. Those same players probably can play other classes well, not just limit to Mesmers. Before this balance patch, in a given situation where 2 players of the same skill level, one plays a thief and other plays Mesmer, the odds heavily favors the thief pre-patch. Sure, you PERSONALLY might be more successful than others, but that’s not the norm.

Btw, where were you in all the tournaments that have gone on the past few years? Since you think Mesmers were “viable” (assume the meaning is adequately competitive), I’d love your name in addition to the Helseth, Supcutie and Frostball that can show the Mesmer community few tips. Post some tournament videos

rchu.8945:

L Step.8659:

Esplen.3940:

You missed the point entirely.

Just because something has a higher skill ceiling than it’s counterparts does not inherently make it better than the counterparts. Mesmer has a high skill floor and a ridiculous high skill ceiling. The other professions can take advantage of the knowledge and tactics used at very, very high level Mesmer play in addition to their strengths.

Simply stating that a Mesmer is OP because Helseth is OP at Mesmer (or Misha or Frostball or whoever you want to bring up) is not entirely accurate. All that you can say for certain is that that player is good at the profession and plays well. Now, it’s possible for them to overpower their opponents, but that does not inherently mean that their profession is overpowered in relation to their opponents professions.

Let’s say that ANet releases a new Profession called the Commando. Most (if not all) people avoid the Commando and don’t play them due to playstyle tastes. However, there is a dedicated Commando community, although they aren’t very good at playing MMOs and play poorly. Tournaments come and go and in each Tournament players rarely see Commandos and the ones that do appear don’t tend to make any impact at all. Does that mean that Commandos are underpowered? Does that mean that Commandos need to get buffed?

The main point I was trying to make is the unique things that mesmers have now they always have had and it’s always the reason to have wanted them. The profession wasn’t hated beyond belief, if played at a very high level it was nice and useful. Before the core specs they had portal, they had moa, they had great incombat active defense, they had great burst, the d/p thief just hard countered it, but even great mesmers could beat them.

Right now they overpower almost any other zerk spec so it’s a lower skill cap to be viable, but the things that are making it unique and useful it has always had.

As already pointed out by few replies above, naming few well known, highly skilled players in tournaments that have played Mesmers doesn’t justify your statement that Mesmers was viable pre-patch. Those same players probably can play other classes well, not just limit to Mesmers. Before this balance patch, in a given situation where 2 players of the same skill level, one plays a thief and other plays Mesmer, the odds heavily favors the thief pre-patch. Sure, you PERSONALLY might be more successful than others, but that’s not the norm.

Btw, where were you in all the tournaments that have gone on the past few years? Since you think Mesmers were “viable” (assume the meaning is adequately competitive), I’d love your name in addition to the Helseth, Supcutie and Frostball that can show the Mesmer community few tips. Post some tournament videos

If those players believe other classes will be as effective as Mesmer and fulfill the role as good as Mesmer did, THEY WOULD HAVE PLAY IT ALREADY. The only reason they’re still playing Mesmer even though they know they’re at a disadvantage is because IT IS BENEFICIAL TO DO SO. They ARE NOT STUPID, they would do whatever it takes to WIN, so claiming that the people who play Mesmer would do better if they play other classes is a false assumption with no proof whatsoever. They keep on playing Mesmer in crucial tournaments because they find that IT WORKS, not because they don’t know how to play other classes!

Stop giving false assumption unless these guys actually try other classes with equal, or better success, and prove it in the tournament!

Esplen.3940:

Mesmer has a high skill floor and a ridiculous high skill ceiling.

Lmfao. No. It doesn’t. Everyone thinks their main and/or favorite profession is hard to play. They’re all equally difficult in some manor or another. Maybe Mesmer is more difficult to play in the sense that it’s difficult to get tags with it but that doesn’t mean it’s ceiling is higher than every other profession.