Guild Wars 2

srsly, the only viable tpvp mesmer build is shatter and you have 0 (!) condi remover, how can this be balanced?

you cant have so many dodges to avoid every single necro/ranger/engi (auto)-attack… kiting is maybe an option, but every enemy that is not brainafk will hit you eventually

furthermore in teamfight, if you are the target you CANT even see all attack animations coming into your face and when only ONE SINGLE hit like pindown hits you, you lose basically your half hp only from bleeding, burning or whatsoever

thief has more evades, more stealth, more mobility and at least 3 viable tpvp builds AND he still got like quadruple more condi removes than a mesmer

mesmer has one viable build and this is 44006, gs and staff (or maybe sword+pistol/torch) with decoy, portal and blink….no place for condi removes

such balance in this game (?!)

why cant a mesmer e.g. lose one condition per shattered clone? or at least a new trait in the domination, dueling or illusions traitline that can actually be used and still make a proper build?

I noticed that with thieves aswell. Im playing the Dagger/pistol trickery build and my only condition removal is on 50 sec cooldown ( shadow step).

I would call that a sacrifice Trading your survivability for more damage . I would really like to have the trait shadow embrace in my build but I cant take it or I will lose damage.

More or less it’s the same for all berserker specs except power necro and medi guard which have a bit more cleanses.

glock.6590:

I noticed that with thieves aswell. Im playing the Dagger/pistol trickery build and my only condition removal is on 50 sec cooldown ( shadow step).

I would call that a sacrifice Trading your survivability for more damage . I would really like to have the trait shadow embrace in my build but I cant take it or I will lose damage.

Then don’t be that guy that plays d/p with withdraw? Or use 6/0/2/0/6 instead with cleanse in stealth? Srsly you chose to have no cleanse, don’t complain about it.

Same with mesmer, you could take nullfield or lyssa if condis would be that big of a problem, which nobody does because condis are rly not that troublesome if your guardian/ele/engi/whatever knows how to use his cooldowns for you.

Keksmuffin.1450:

glock.6590:

I noticed that with thieves aswell. Im playing the Dagger/pistol trickery build and my only condition removal is on 50 sec cooldown ( shadow step).

I would call that a sacrifice Trading your survivability for more damage . I would really like to have the trait shadow embrace in my build but I cant take it or I will lose damage.

Then don’t be that guy that plays d/p with withdraw? Or use 6/0/2/0/6 instead with cleanse in stealth? Srsly you chose to have no cleanse, don’t complain about it.

Same with mesmer, you could take nullfield or lyssa if condis would be that big of a problem, which nobody does because condis are rly not that troublesome if your guardian/ele/engi/whatever knows how to use his cooldowns for you.

I think the build you listed is very low damage I prefer 2/6/0/0/6. And withraw helps me alot against every class except engineers

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Just because Supcutie or Helseth don’t run condi clear doesn’t mean you can’t run it! They rely on positioning and have full teams to help them with condis and peels! This will probably never happen if you are solo queue-ing or in any match that’s not high level! Builds aren’t set in stone! Take Null Field or the Mantra if you are having trouble with conditions!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

glock.6590:

Keksmuffin.1450:

glock.6590:

I noticed that with thieves aswell. Im playing the Dagger/pistol trickery build and my only condition removal is on 50 sec cooldown ( shadow step).

I would call that a sacrifice Trading your survivability for more damage . I would really like to have the trait shadow embrace in my build but I cant take it or I will lose damage.

Then don’t be that guy that plays d/p with withdraw? Or use 6/0/2/0/6 instead with cleanse in stealth? Srsly you chose to have no cleanse, don’t complain about it.

Same with mesmer, you could take nullfield or lyssa if condis would be that big of a problem, which nobody does because condis are rly not that troublesome if your guardian/ele/engi/whatever knows how to use his cooldowns for you.

I think the build you listed is very low damage I prefer 2/6/0/0/6. And withraw helps me alot against every class except engineers

So you prefer not to run cleanse and complain about not having cleanse. Your point?

shimmerless.4560:

There is a very simple change that would make life infinitely easier for Mesmers and it’s to make portal a class mechanic instead of a utility skill. Bam, now you have room for one cleanse.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

wat

Wahoo! Bye frands!

shimmerless.4560:

There is a very simple change that would make life infinitely easier for Mesmers and it’s to make portal a class mechanic instead of a utility skill. Bam, now you have room for one cleanse.

ArrDee.2573:

shimmerless.4560:

There is a very simple change that would make life infinitely easier for Mesmers and it’s to make portal a class mechanic instead of a utility skill. Bam, now you have room for one cleanse.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

wat

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Portal -> goes on F5
Open utility slot means you can run Null Field or mantra or w/e instead.

ellesee.8297:

full teams to help them with condis and peels! This will probably never happen if you are solo queue-ing

I could cry when i read this

Jekkt.6045:

More or less it’s the same for all berserker specs except power necro and medi guard which have a bit more cleanses.

ah so for example a sd thief cant remove condis with the sword, shadowstep or whatsoever? or a backstab thief usually runs the condi remover when stealthed trait

a power ranger can transfer 3 condis each 10secs to their pet PLUS a signet which makes you lose one condi each 10secs….

even engis have a trait (thats even a standard trait) what TURNS a condi into a boon (not even removed, no it gets turned into a boon) PLUS 2 condi remover on a 15sec healskill cooldown

Keksmuffin.1450:

Same with mesmer, you could take nullfield or lyssa if condis would be that big of a problem

nice and if i change my traveler rune for lyssa i have a) less speed which means a worse kiting and b) i have to use my elite to condi cleanse…. smallest cd on the elite is mass invis with 90secs btw…90secs….you notice something?

oh and if i change my portal or decoy or blink i get bursted in secs and cant evade….niceeee kitten

ellesee.8297:

Just because Supcutie or Helseth don’t run condi clear doesn’t mean you can’t run it! Take Null Field or the Mantra if you are having trouble with conditions!

it has a reason why these build is the current meta build and e.g. if you are lacking in speed as a necro you still wont use the signet of the locust right?

so other arguments pls

oh and sometimes you cant expect all teammates to wait with their cd’s until you need a condi remover…

all in all, where is the balance?

Lopez.7369:

Necromancers don’t use Signet of the Locust, even though the class does have bad mobility, because it doesn’t work in most situations. Similarly, mesmers shouldn’t stick to no condition cleansing if conditions prove to be a problem.

have you ever played a mesmer? you need to react in half a second if a thief jumps on you….what do you do when you cant port away?

“hey thief, i have no evade ports, but i can throw a nullfield at your current position, how about that?”

hu?

Lukas.7159:

Jekkt.6045:

More or less it’s the same for all berserker specs except power necro and medi guard which have a bit more cleanses.

ah so for example a sd thief cant remove condis with the sword, shadowstep or whatsoever? or a backstab thief usually runs the condi remover when stealthed trait

a power ranger can transfer 3 condis each 10secs to their pet PLUS a signet which makes you lose one condi each 10secs….

even engis have a trait (thats even a standard trait) what TURNS a condi into a boon (not even removed, no it gets turned into a boon) PLUS 2 condi remover on a 15sec healskill cooldown

a thief trying to cleanse all the conditions with shadow return is wasting all his initiative. you usually do this when you have a single strong condition, like burning. if you have many cover conditions this is useless. and no, backstab thieves don’t run the stealth cleanse.

a typical power ranger does not run empathetic bond

again, berserk engis don’t run this minor trait and 2 condis removed each 15 seconds does not help much against condi specs. even normal engis struggle with condi removal.

the way these builds work is: a) let your teammates cleanse your conditions. or b) dont even get conditions.

Ledge as much as you can as a Mesmer. Positioning is half your game. Usually it is not necessary to stand on a point because you can’t hold it like a Warrior, Guardian, or Turrets. Also, come into fights late so you get a brief period to freecast, and always keep an eye on Thieves and know where they are at all times.

The balance is that Mesmers using 44006 have burst with boonstrip and good CC, stealth, and teleport mobility with staff. You kite like a king and try not to get hit by collateral AoE. If you are not fielding a full team queue or don’t have anyone dedicated to peeling for you, consider tweaking your spec to have a bit more survival. Because normal queuers don’t really watch out for you.

In arenas, you will be trained by Thieves and Eles, that’s a fact, especially glass, because you have the burst to turn teamfights around. It is mandatory that you get peels and condi cleanse from your team, and you should also abuse LoS with your staff and ports. Or go out of fight completely with blink and portal.

Shatter Mesmer is like this. You’re either good, or dead. Thieves rely on staying out of big fights and spiking low health targets then gtfo. When D/P blows stealth house or HiS heal, they are out of the fight. They can’t come in again or they die to any cleave. They always need to have escape options. Mesmers have comparatively less mobility and trade it for damage, so you have to have your team support you to let you do your job.

Also, Mesmers do have cleanses but they are in the Inspiration line. If you feel absolutely overloaded with conditions, take Null Field or cleanse Mantra. Slot Hoelbrak, or Traveler to help you kite. Land a big Shatter, down someone, cleave for a bit then go out completely.

Jekkt.6045

a thief trying to cleanse all the conditions with shadow return is wasting all his initiative.

backstab thieves don’t run the stealth cleanse.

a typical power ranger does not run empathetic bond

dont even get conditions.

1) rather waste initiative than die right?
2) as far as i know (i dont play thief by myself) backstab is 60206 (with the condi remover trait in the 3rd trait line)
3)not every power ranger is 66200, there are a lot with more sustain like 60620 or 60260
4) and your last sentence is a joke right?

if you waste your initiative you’re dead anyway. no initiative, no evades/stealth, more conditions = dead

backstab is 26006

ofc every weaponset has its build variations but if you really want to do damage as a lb ranger you have to go 66200. if you position right and you’re at 1500 range you usually dont even get any conditions. and this leads to my last sentence which wasn’t a joke at all.

in an optimal case you want to avoid all damaging conditions. there are several ways to do that. as i wrote above, a ranger with 1500 range won’t be hit by a 900 range pistol engi.

if i play on my s/f berserk ele and i have to face a condi engi i try to avoid all of his ranged condition attacks with blinds, projectile destroy, reflects, invuls. if i do get conditions i have 2 condi cleansing skills (earth4 and water dodge).

now as i said this is the optimal case and is hard to maintain. luckily you have teammates who can focus the enemy’s condi classes so you can play with less worries.

Lukas.7159:

Ralkuth.1456:

a thief trying to cleanse all the conditions with shadow return is wasting all his initiative.

backstab thieves don’t run the stealth cleanse.

a typical power ranger does not run empathetic bond

dont even get conditions.

1) rather waste initiative than die right?
2) as far as i know (i dont play thief by myself) backstab is 60206 (with the condi remover trait in the 3rd trait line)
3)not every power ranger is 66200, there are a lot with more sustain like 60620 or 60260
4) and your last sentence is a joke right?

You put the words in my mouth :0

Jekkt.6045:

if you waste your initiative you’re dead anyway. no initiative, no evades/stealth, more conditions = dead

backstab is 26006

ofc every weaponset has its build variations but if you really want to do damage as a lb ranger you have to go 66200. if you position right and you’re at 1500 range you usually dont even get any conditions. and this leads to my last sentence which wasn’t a joke at all.

in an optimal case you want to avoid all damaging conditions. there are several ways to do that. as i wrote above, a ranger with 1500 range won’t be hit by a 900 range pistol engi.

if i play on my s/f berserk ele and i have to face a condi engi i try to avoid all of his ranged condition attacks with blinds, projectile destroy, reflects, invuls. if i do get conditions i have 2 condi cleansing skills (earth4 and water dodge).

now as i said this is the optimal case and is hard to maintain. luckily you have teammates who can focus the enemy’s condi classes so you can play with less worries.

how about wasting your initiative to get away?? (btw what about shadow refuge? or get a target far away from you and use the infiltrators signet?)

pistolwhip is 26006, backstab 60206

with 66200 power ranger you get basically one shotted by a thief, so nobody runs that (maybe in yoloQ)….and shhh….tell me one situation where you can sit in 1500range and still hit a target (without even getting pressured by a thief or whatever)

but i dont wanna talk about rangers

as you mention, you have blinds, projectile destroy, reflects, invuls. AND the usual blink, shield or whatever as your skills….AND you count 2 condi cleansing skills

a mesmer has one single port + phase retreat, then one stealth for 3secs…then hes probably dead by the following conditions

and in most cases if theres an enemy thief/mesmer our thief needs to jump on them and we gotta kill them before they kill me…no time to get on an engi target if the thief is still alive….cause thief is still a higher counter than engi

ps: ofc every class is different, but i cant see the point why EVERY SINGLE CLASS has at least one condi remover, but the mesmer has none (talking about the meta build now, dont come and mention the nullfield anymore, cause we all know its crap and you wouldnt even use it by yourself)

it cant be the solution that if you get hit by one single skill that causes some ‘high’ condi dmg (like pindown with bleeding, or like perma burn from engi, ele etc) you cant remove it and have to tank condi over condi over condi with 15k hp

i want at least one condi remover where you can remove the highest condi dmg

pps: sry @Ralkuth.1456, my mistake ._.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Once again builds aren’t set in stone! If you look at ToL1, Helseth ran Null Field against condi heavy teams! If you look at Supcutie’s shatter guide, he recommends Lyssa Runes and/or Null Field if you have trouble with conditions! So please just because you saw some thuper good Mesmer in a tournament run a build doesn’t mean you should copy it to the letter! First, they are better players than you and tailor their own builds for their own playstyle! Second, they are better players than you and understand positioning and know when to dodge the damaging condition applying hits! Third, they play with a team and, especially in the Mesmer’s case, will support them with peels and condi clears and boons etc! So if you are personally having trouble with conditions, grab some anti condition skills or runes! The top Mesmers in the game who invented the build that you copied gave you the OK! Good luck!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Once again builds aren’t set in stone! If you look at ToL1, Helseth ran Null Field against condi heavy teams! If you look at Supcutie’s shatter guide, he recommends Lyssa Runes and/or Null Field if you have trouble with conditions! So please just because you saw some thuper good Mesmer in a tournament run a build doesn’t mean you should copy it to the letter! First, they are better players than you and tailor their own builds for their own playstyle! Second, they are better players than you and understand positioning and know when to dodge the damaging condition applying hits! Third, they play with a team and, especially in the Mesmer’s case, will support them with peels and condi clears and boons etc! So if you are personally having trouble with conditions, grab some anti condition skills or runes! The top Mesmers in the game who invented the build that you copied gave you the OK! Good luck!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Lol honestly most things the #1 engi says I don’t agree with but dang I must say I 100% agree with him on this one.

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Once again builds aren’t set in stone! If you look at ToL1, Helseth ran Null Field against condi heavy teams! If you look at Supcutie’s shatter guide, he recommends Lyssa Runes and/or Null Field if you have trouble with conditions! So please just because you saw some thuper good Mesmer in a tournament run a build doesn’t mean you should copy it to the letter! First, they are better players than you and tailor their own builds for their own playstyle! Second, they are better players than you and understand positioning and know when to dodge the damaging condition applying hits! Third, they play with a team and, especially in the Mesmer’s case, will support them with peels and condi clears and boons etc! So if you are personally having trouble with conditions, grab some anti condition skills or runes! The top Mesmers in the game who invented the build that you copied gave you the OK! Good luck!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

i just want to question why a mesmer is the only class that has such a disadvantage when facing other players?

you got a low HP pool anyway and then you arent even able to make a usefull top tier pvp build without one single condi remover? pls stahp this sheeet with “then use other skills”, holy crap i am not a bad mesmer either and i cant change any of my skills for something pretty much useless like nullfield….

imagine any other class had no elite skill or no heal skill, everyone would QQ, but now when you bring a certain question about balance suddenly every guy that doesnt play mesmer comes with kittenty arguments against you, just because you want a mesmer to be an eZ kill as it is against your class being condi engi

go play mesmer yourself, try to make a fair 1-1 against any other class and we will see

btw i recently had a duel vs a very very good ele (wont mention a name) and i kited like a baws, but i still died….then i checked what killed me…..50hits burning, 35hits poison, ONLY ONE SINGLE RING OF FIRE HIT and then NOTHING (!) else….i just died of conditions which i cant do nothing against….and you think its fair?

Just don’t take Portal in Soloq – its a dead skill most of the time – take Nullfield.

Lukas.7159:

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Once again builds aren’t set in stone! If you look at ToL1, Helseth ran Null Field against condi heavy teams! If you look at Supcutie’s shatter guide, he recommends Lyssa Runes and/or Null Field if you have trouble with conditions! So please just because you saw some thuper good Mesmer in a tournament run a build doesn’t mean you should copy it to the letter! First, they are better players than you and tailor their own builds for their own playstyle! Second, they are better players than you and understand positioning and know when to dodge the damaging condition applying hits! Third, they play with a team and, especially in the Mesmer’s case, will support them with peels and condi clears and boons etc! So if you are personally having trouble with conditions, grab some anti condition skills or runes! The top Mesmers in the game who invented the build that you copied gave you the OK! Good luck!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

i just want to question why a mesmer is the only class that has such a disadvantage when facing other players?

you got a low HP pool anyway and then you arent even able to make a usefull top tier pvp build without one single condi remover? pls stahp this sheeet with “then use other skills”, holy crap i am not a bad mesmer either and i cant change any of my skills for something pretty much useless like nullfield….

imagine any other class had no elite skill or no heal skill, everyone would QQ, but now when you bring a certain question about balance suddenly every guy that doesnt play mesmer comes with kittenty arguments against you, just because you want a mesmer to be an eZ kill as it is against your class being condi engi

go play mesmer yourself, try to make a fair 1-1 against any other class and we will see

btw i recently had a duel vs a very very good ele (wont mention a name) and i kited like a baws, but i still died….then i checked what killed me…..50hits burning, 35hits poison, ONLY ONE SINGLE RING OF FIRE HIT and then NOTHING (!) else….i just died of conditions which i cant do nothing against….and you think its fair?

This is quite a joke. You’re basically saying, “I have no condition remove because I dont take skills or traits that remove conditions and im not willing to change for it. Mesmer so kitten!”

In Soloq not taking condi cleanse with you against condi heavy team is totally your bad, portal isn’t as good in soloq anyways, here’s why.

- You use it to backcap a node which you will loose instantly cuz no1 will rotate over to hold it (if cond-class is incoming).
- You use it to port back on your node which is being backcapped but wont be able to hold it anyways, cuz no1 will portal with you to support and you are forced off node 90% of the time. (even if they’re not condi)
- You use it to port back from a backcap into the teamfight, actually the only time it is useful.

Therefore running portal in soloq is not very good, unless you’re kitten good on your mesmer and can deal with conds anyway. If you get rolled by condis in teamq, it’s entierly your teams fault. If they don’t peel for you, you die.

Sidenotes: Saying you got only hit by fire ring and nothing else but died of condis. I lol’d. Like condis just magically appear and are not the result of eating skills. Learn which skills deal heavy conds and dodge them. There are things which aren’t avoidable such as IP, but that’s just bad design of ArenaNet.

Backstab thief can run 60206 or 26006. The first one goes with panik strike for immob and cond remove, the second for executioner. It’s purely players preference. I for myself like 26006 more cuz it spikes better (we run mesmer/thief so it rockzz). While running 26006 i have to use one of my 2 stunbreaks to clear 3 conds every 50seconds, aka. I can’t really deal with conds, that’s why I run HiS instead of withdraw, eventhough I prefer withdraw. You gotta give up something to compensate. But eventhough i run HiS I need my guard to take the conds off me, that means d/p sucks in soloq. With this in mind I dont need to qq on forums about it, cuz I know why it sucks. My damage is hilarious, therefore my cleansing sucks. Same applies to mesmers, deal with it.

Then again, Nullfield is actually pretty good, even against non-condi specs… Why?

Freaking AoE boon removal!

This alone should be a reason to slot it if you want it – I know for sure that it is always on my bar…

Still, as many people stated, you got the option, so don’t cry because you do not want to run it…

josh.7390:

- You use it to backcap a node which you will loose instantly cuz no1 will rotate over to hold it (if cond-class is incoming).
- You use it to port back on your node which is being backcapped but wont be able to hold it anyways, cuz no1 will portal with you to support and you are forced off node 90% of the time. (even if they’re not condi)
- You use it to port back from a backcap into the teamfight, actually the only time it is useful.

Saying you got only hit by fire ring and nothing else but died of condis. I lol’d. Like condis just magically appear and are not the result of eating skills.

welp you can still leave a portal at far and force either a 5v4 teamfight and/or use portal, decap far, use it again and get back in teamfight…..

furthermore its usefull if a) the teamfight is lost anyway and you need to reset or die
and b) if you run out of cds and need to reset

so its not totally bs in soloQ

no condis just dont magically appear, but e.g. usually dd ele runs doom sigill which caused the poison

sadly it doenst show all hits that hit you while dueling, only the ones which caused the most hp loss…and as i said, first place was burning and second was poison, third then one ring of fire attack which caused a kitten ton of burning….but ofc autoattack wont get mentioned, even tho it gives you poison after weapon swap…so nothing to lol

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Once again the top Mesmers can pull off their build because A. they are better than you and have the positioning and knowledge to not waste time and do something like die 1v1 vs a D/D Ele! And B. they have a team to support them! The team supports them with condi clears, with peels if they’re getting focused, with boons, with heals, etc. These things don’t ever happen in your level of play! Sorry! And even if you do have a team, your team isn’t nearly as good as their team! So please stop complaining and take some condi clear! Again the best Mesmers in the world who invented the build that you’re copying right now say it’s ok to take condi clear if you have issues with condis!

And Vee Wee has played Mesmer and still plays Mesmer pretty frequently because it’s fun! Vee Wee takes condi removal because WHO KNEW THAT TAKING CONDI REMOVAL HELPS WITH CONDI REMOVAL!

PS: If you took 50 seconds of burning damage from a D/D Ele who does like 400 burn damage/second per tick, what the heck were you doing fighting a D/D Ele for like 3+ minutes! Wasting time that’s what!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Once again the top Mesmers can pull off their build because A. they are better than you and have the positioning and knowledge to not waste time and do something like die 1v1 vs a D/D Ele! And B. they have a team to support them! The team supports them with condi clears, with peels if they’re getting focused, with boons, with heals, etc. These things don’t ever happen in your level of play! Sorry! And even if you do have a team, your team isn’t nearly as good as their team! So please stop complaining and take some condi clear! Again the best Mesmers in the world who invented the build that you’re copying right now say it’s ok to take condi clear if you have issues with condis!

And Vee Wee has played Mesmer and still plays Mesmer pretty frequently because it’s fun! Vee Wee takes condi removal because WHO KNEW THAT TAKING CONDI REMOVAL HELPS WITH CONDI REMOVAL!

PS: If you took 50 seconds of burning damage from a D/D Ele who does like 400 burn damage/second per tick, what the heck were you doing fighting a D/D Ele for like 3+ minutes! Wasting time that’s what!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

whooot i never said i fought the ele in a rated match, it was on a private 1-1 arena

no it werent 50secs, it were 50hits from burning

oh and if u didnt knew, a mesmer needs to kite like kitten…while the nullfield has a radius of 240

just had a soloQ match against 3 necros (no lie) and i honestly used nullfield instead of portal, it didnt help a kitten…once you place it down you gotta get out of it cause otherwise the zerkers will one shot you

Disengage, LoS, Nullfield and heal.
You shouldn’t ever be on a point unless cleaving with sword. You see a teamfight, you ledge hard and GS squishies. When they get low and have no CD, go in and kill it. Let your bunking heavy stomp/finish. You drop Nullfield on the heavy ressing the body and shatter and strip stability and GS push/Focus pull them away.

Example targets when you are freecasting are power necros, thieves out of position, DD Ele getting low and going into Water.

Lukas.7159:

no it werent 50secs, it were 50hits from burning

Well since it was 50 hits and conditions tick every second i think 50 seconds are roughly the correct number…