Guild Wars 2

I play mesmer and thief in tpvp, and my question is : Is it possible to kill a thief as a mesmer in a 1v1? When i’m playing thief, mesmers and elementalists are pretty mach dead 24/7.
Mesmer PoV :I know i can interrupt him and kill him, and i do it quite often. But if i’m in a teamfight, with full hp, and a thief focuses me, i will die with one Pistol Whip. If i don’t have blink or
distortion ready, i’ll be dead in 5 seconds.
Same thing with elementalists, although they heal alot.

I’m focusing on s/p and s/d thieves. Look at s/p: sick damage, evade while Pistol Whip-ing, and stunlock. Look at s/d : high damage, boon steal, perma evade.

I may be wrong but I really think thief should be reworked. And i main thief..

I can only speak from the perspective of a Mesmer. P/P, D/P and D/D are rarely played, however these are normally free kills. D/D I can beat if I catch them off guard or before they burst me, but it’s not exactly played or viable for thieves atm. Meta thief builds are more of a struggle, Thief is the direct counter to Mesmer in these circumstances. Both builds have built in defense in their melee bursts and an equally skilled opponent should never lose to an equally skilled mesmer in a 1v1. I have to outplay thieves dramatically to beat them.

However, Mesmer is very nerfed and has so many bugs it is pretty much un viable in PvP unless played by someone very good with the class, as I see other Mesmers as free kills if I catch them offguard. Thief has its problems but I think it shouldn’t be reworked because it easily kills mesmers, they compete for the same role and thief generally does it better in direct damage, however Mesmers have bigger burst.

If you see a thief coming you can dodge and interrupt and attempt to nuke them but the only build that can effectively beat thieves like this is a staff / greatsword shatter build. If you’re in EU go in the dueling servers and watch top Mesmers play, often enough they do beat thieves, but remember they are top.

Benjamin.8237:

I can only speak from the perspective of a Mesmer. P/P, D/P and D/D are rarely played, however these are normally free kills. D/D I can beat if I catch them off guard or before they burst me, but it’s not exactly played or viable for thieves atm. Meta thief builds are more of a struggle, Thief is the direct counter to Mesmer in these circumstances. Both builds have built in defense in their melee bursts and an equally skilled opponent should never lose to an equally skilled mesmer in a 1v1. I have to outplay thieves dramatically to beat them.

However, Mesmer is very nerfed and has so many bugs it is pretty much un viable in PvP unless played by someone very good with the class, as I see other Mesmers as free kills if I catch them offguard. Thief has its problems but I think it shouldn’t be reworked because it easily kills mesmers, they compete for the same role and thief generally does it better in direct damage, however Mesmers have bigger burst.

If you see a thief coming you can dodge and interrupt and attempt to nuke them but the only build that can effectively beat thieves like this is a staff / greatsword shatter build. If you’re in EU go in the dueling servers and watch top Mesmers play, often enough they do beat thieves, but remember they are top.

You dont have to be top mesmer built to duel destroy thief.

Stronger.8076:

I play mesmer and thief in tpvp, and my question is : Is it possible to kill a thief as a mesmer in a 1v1? When i’m playing thief, mesmers and elementalists are pretty mach dead 24/7.
Mesmer PoV :I know i can interrupt him and kill him, and i do it quite often. But if i’m in a teamfight, with full hp, and a thief focuses me, i will die with one Pistol Whip. If i don’t have blink or
distortion ready, i’ll be dead in 5 seconds.
Same thing with elementalists, although they heal alot.

I’m focusing on s/p and s/d thieves. Look at s/p: sick damage, evade while Pistol Whip-ing, and stunlock. Look at s/d : high damage, boon steal, perma evade.

I may be wrong but I really think thief should be reworked. And i main thief..

You are wrong, equip a staff prob solved.

vincecontix.1264:

Stronger.8076:

I play mesmer and thief in tpvp, and my question is : Is it possible to kill a thief as a mesmer in a 1v1? When i’m playing thief, mesmers and elementalists are pretty mach dead 24/7.
Mesmer PoV :I know i can interrupt him and kill him, and i do it quite often. But if i’m in a teamfight, with full hp, and a thief focuses me, i will die with one Pistol Whip. If i don’t have blink or
distortion ready, i’ll be dead in 5 seconds.
Same thing with elementalists, although they heal alot.

I’m focusing on s/p and s/d thieves. Look at s/p: sick damage, evade while Pistol Whip-ing, and stunlock. Look at s/d : high damage, boon steal, perma evade.

I may be wrong but I really think thief should be reworked. And i main thief..

You are wrong, equip a staff prob solved.

Well.. I play s/p on thief, as i said. And staff won’t solve the problem. Pistol whip + infiltrator’s signet -> mesmer down state

vincecontix.1264:

You dont have to be top mesmer built to duel destroy thief.

Oh I completely agree, you can beat a thief with a PU build or a phantasm condition build etc. What I was trying to get across was two equal skilled players, a thief vs mesmer both in meta builds…a thief should probably come out on top. In a tournament setting a mesmer using PU or a condition build would be a liability, therefore thief would come on top. In a 1v1 setting mesmer has a higher chance due to build variety there, and obviously a crap thief is almost free food to most classes.

Mesmers Eles and Warriors are hard-countered by thieves. Unfortunately, there are lots of hard-counters in this game (on average: Necro > Engi, Warrior > Necro, Thief > Warrior, Engi > Thief, etc.).

This is, of course, assuming an equal skill level of the players.

engi vs necro matchup even worse in my opinion. as engi you get your boons at 75% and die after necro press 2 buttons. hard counters are really bad for the game in my opinion.

Thieves are just a joke class for my mesmer and my guardian to crush, they can only defeat me if there’s more than 1. (I use PU mesmer and zerk guardian, seriously, try it.)

PU mesmer will beat thieves, but the build is out of the question for team pvp, not enough boon strip, not enough interupts and harder to cap points on.

At equal talent:

Mesmer > thief
Thief > ele

Frenk.5917:

Mesmers Eles and Warriors are hard-countered by thieves. Unfortunately, there are lots of hard-counters in this game (on average: Necro > Engi, Warrior > Necro, Thief > Warrior, Engi > Thief, etc.).

This is, of course, assuming an equal skill level of the players.

Warrior hard countered by thieves ? lol ? In what world ? I’m a trash warrior and I kill thieves with no effort at all.

Mesmer > Thief? If were talking running actual viable team builds (not PU, not condi) then thief hard counters every other caster to the point that unless your a top player, or vsing a team with no s/d thief, mesmer has no place in a serious team.

In tpvp thief is a hardcounter to mes.
Maybe you are able to kill a thief as mesmer but most of the time u will have big troubles.

yes it’s well known for a while that Thief vs Mesmers is very unbalanced – at least when we’re talking running meta builds and not cheese.

Thief is the reason why most eles run celestial d/d or celestial/cleric’s staff. Thief doesn’t just counter zerker mes and zerker ele, they hard-counter zerker everything. Nobody can compete with the mobility/map control of a thief combined with the on-demand spike capability and support from sleight of hand/shadow refuge. On top of that, thieves can sit on any other zerker build, such that bringing them on a team is a serious liability as they lack the tools to effectively defend themselves from on-demand spikes from stealth and instant teleports that ignore LOS. The only time you would ever bring a mesmer is if you really want the boon-strip and portal, and are confident that your thief can really protect your mesmer.

I do think something needs to change so that thieves aren’t both superior in their mobility/spike capability but also own other zerker’s with impunity. IMO the problem is the instant-cast teleports that ignore LOS, that make it impossible for good play from another zerker to mitigate the thieve’s capability to spike them down without facing retribution.

I will admit my Pistol Whip build eats most Mesmers alive. The only ones that can escape are the PU variants with lots of Stealth and Conditions.

Eles are less of a definitive win but are instead focused for a reason. Eles deal massive AoE damage in group fights, while removing conditions and healing. They are focus target #1 for a reason.

As for Mesmers, the reason why Thieves counter them fairly hard is because both classes share a love for teleports. Mesmers rely on their teleports to survive, while Thieves can instantly close the gap again. Mesmers rely on Illusion and Phantasms, which are easily cleaved by Sword damage. Some of their spells also have cast-times, which make them susceptible to interrupts. And then the stolen ability is fairly good too.

It’s the mechanics that make Thieves counter Mesmers so hard, rather than any ability in particular being over- or underpowered.

Dee Jay.2460:

It’s the mechanics that make Thieves counter Mesmers so hard, rather than any ability in particular being over- or underpowered.

Its a little more simple than that: In any zerker vs. zerker fight, for the most part, whoever gets to land their burst first wins. Thieves choose when a fight starts, generally, b/c they have shadow refuge and instant ports. The fact that thieves win the 1v1 vs. other zerkers would be fine, but they are also far superior to other zerkers in filling the roaming dps role due to best map-mobility and best escape-ability when the fit hits the shan. They are perfectly designed for the role they serve, and pretty much necessary on every team (and if a team doesn’t have one, they would be generally improved by taking one).

The only part that makes it an issue in a team game is that there isn’t really anything you can do to protect another glassy player from a thief besides having your own thief around to hunt him down. The ability to port in, spike, and port out with impunity makes it impossible for a glass player to do, really, anything vs. a thief. There is also very limited things their team can do too.

Mesmers crying about thieves is funny

Silly, nothing beats a theif! That’s why skilled kids use it.

few words, use a build reliable whit the staff rotation and problem solved. Like condition

1.scepter/torch- staff
Prismatic understanding raise our survival for like 50% more if you use (decoy, Prestige).

When answering, please take into account different modes of play. Some suggested Mesmer builds are viable in a hotjoin or soloQ scenario, but absolutely not viable in teamQ. For example:

kishter.9578:

few words, use a build reliable whit the staff rotation and problem solved. Like condition

1.scepter/torch- staff
Prismatic understanding raise our survival for like 50% more if you use (decoy, Prestige).

Passable advice for hotjoin, pure nonsense for teamQ. The problem with scepter-torch / staff PU condi Mesmer is that it serves no team role. It can’t cap points, can’t defend them and it has zero team fight presence. Sure, PU can 1v1 to an extent on far point, but this takes about a million years, and during that time any opposing team above kitten awareness will rotate their roamer and 2v1 the PU in about 7 seconds.

Pretty fair match up typically 1v1 thief to mes but for decent players thief has the advantage.
D/P and D/D are typically the fairest fights but can engage on mes on their terms, as along as a thief learns to not get desperate or impatient he will always be able to keep the momentum.

S/D is out playable but if we consider a glass Mesmer with easy to see and avoidable spike, maintaining the momentum is a challenge especially when you consider the level if evade spam but very possible.

P/P is on the same level as PU but heals instead of boons. I personally don’t like these low skill cap kind of builds that play themselves and are only really great 1v1 but typically don’t being anything to a team. But they are beatable just super slippery.

S/P is like a shatter Mesmer on one button. Easier to deal with on ele than mes, atleast for me.

Glass vs glass the only part that sucks for a Mesmer is the amount of set up, and how easily avoidable their main damage dealers are. I’ve killed so many Mesmers with 3 hits on D/P and not much more in S/D. But with a bit of effort and proper set up can kill a thief in two shatters (which unfortunately is a minimum of 6 c/ds presuming everything hits.)

Is it possible to out play a good thief 1v1? yes. But thief in this match up has an easier time.

I have trouble nailing the thieves that have almost perma evasion – I’m not familiar with the build (trait selection), but they’re like Speedy Gonzales combined with Road Runner. It takes enough effort to set up a shatter burst, and hitting these guys with sufficient damage is a challenge.

But any good thief is a nightmare such that you have to be on your toes all the time. If you’re tired or not relaxed enough and have slower reflexes, you’ll get eaten alive by a good thief. Fun when you’re able to counter-play them, especially if you’re on low health and turn the tables to finish them, but timing must be flawless, and heaven help you if it’s 1v2 and they have a friend.

i dont have a problem killing a thief with my mesmer at all. the trick is simple, greatsword, staff, null field, and stealth. prob solved oooo and u cant forget…the chicken skill _, ik it gets hate, but with this weapon combo its useful.

As Mesmer.. I feel like Thief has a great advantage over me whenever I fight em;
and when I win It’s because I outplayed them, and because I saw them coming, and because they made atleast one mistake.

Most top 100 S/d Sizorkittens will 3 shot me unless I run away..
If they’re D/P or S/P I feel like I have a chance.

style.6173:

At equal talent:

Mesmer > thief
Thief > ele

I would say at “equal” skill, Thief > Mesmer > Ele.

I’m trying ele at the moment so I can’t say anything about that but I can give my five cents about the mesmer pov.

With any condition-based build with or without PU you have a good chance in winning the duel. Even Phantasm builds work well, only that the thief will kill your phantasms with a few SB shots. Interrupt builds could work fine IF you could actually interrupt a thief, means you stunned him long enough and his skills would have a longer CD. But since a lot of the thiefs skills are stunbreakers or ports and his skills are based on initiative and have little to no CD – it depends on your build.

As a shatter mesmer for tPvP you (at least I…) have almost no chance in a duel. Due to his high mobility and portskills it’s hard to land a nice shatter and when you try to disengage he’ll be immediately on you and kill you. But tPvP is a lot about team fights so don’t get to mad with yourself if someone whispers you with “L2P mesmer noob” when you loose a duel versus a thief. They probably expect you to be awesome and godlike and one-shot everything.

^Good point – it depends a lot on individual builds.

I would agree that unless the mesmer is running some cheese build like zerker pu/condi pu or the signet distortion variant, they will have a hard time beating a good thief.

To someone’s other point that all zerk classes lose to thief zerk; I disagree. Zerk guardian, in my opinion, is a good counter to zerk thief. The amount of blocks and blinds available to a zerk meditation guardian keep the thief from landing their burst, and they have decent mobility and teleports for their own burst. Plus the burning even with no condi dmg boosts still perturbs the thief quite a bit.

a t s e.9614:

Frenk.5917:

Mesmers Eles and Warriors are hard-countered by thieves. Unfortunately, there are lots of hard-counters in this game (on average: Necro > Engi, Warrior > Necro, Thief > Warrior, Engi > Thief, etc.).

This is, of course, assuming an equal skill level of the players.

Warrior hard countered by thieves ? lol ? In what world ? I’m a trash warrior and I kill thieves with no effort at all.

Then all you did was fight trash thieves.

A good thief would never let you damage them at all with evade/blind/shadowstep/stealth spam. Their DPS can outdamage your healing signet and kill you.

runeblade.7514:

a t s e.9614:

Frenk.5917:

Mesmers Eles and Warriors are hard-countered by thieves. Unfortunately, there are lots of hard-counters in this game (on average: Necro > Engi, Warrior > Necro, Thief > Warrior, Engi > Thief, etc.).

This is, of course, assuming an equal skill level of the players.

Warrior hard countered by thieves ? lol ? In what world ? I’m a trash warrior and I kill thieves with no effort at all.

Then all you did was fight trash thieves.

A good thief would never let you damage them at all with evade/blind/shadowstep/stealth spam. Their DPS can outdamage your healing signet and kill you.

Warriors > Thieves period

Mesmer has plenty of anti thief. Thieves are EXTREMELY predictable! Easiest way to kill one is to go condi, staff, scepter/sword. Scepter block gives 5 stacks of torment, that’s an almost instant kill for thieves. Seriously, when a this hits that I immediately say over voice chat, someone find the body, few secs later I hear the “help me” heal cry, and it’s stomping time! I had a really hard time against thieves until I went condi and started using my blocks. If I don’t have scepter block I use off hand sword block and chase it with an f3 shatter for a chain daze, then it depends on what I have, condi haymaker? Moa? Stun?

Zadarh.1932:

Mesmer has plenty of anti thief. Thieves are EXTREMELY predictable! Easiest way to kill one is to go condi, staff, scepter/sword. Scepter block gives 5 stacks of torment, that’s an almost instant kill for thieves. Seriously, when a this hits that I immediately say over voice chat, someone find the body, few secs later I hear the “help me” heal cry, and it’s stomping time! I had a really hard time against thieves until I went condi and started using my blocks. If I don’t have scepter block I use off hand sword block and chase it with an f3 shatter for a chain daze, then it depends on what I have, condi haymaker? Moa? Stun?

this are good tactics (sword #2 too), but how about attacks from stealth? say d/p thief? or how about pw?

Ridiculouse! Peeps have bin complaining about the Mesmer since day 1. & it has bin nerfed so much over the last 2 years cuz all the other classes crying about how they could’nt handle them in 1v1 situation. Well, the table have turned. The Mesmer has gone in WvW & Spvp to the dumps!!! Mesmer can support others to bring down enemies. But so all the other classes. Ppl need to stop pretending Mesmers are a viable classes in spvp. We are no longer a viable & it sadden me. So all you others who complains about it or saying, Hey! -Mez are to OP…Plz stop! You got your wish. The mesmer is capote.