Guild Wars 2

It takes absolutely no skills what so ever to play a shatter mesmer and yet there clones can match or do more burst then any thief build out. Hardly any risk for such high dps. Flame thieves all you want but the fact is 1 dodge, block, or evade can escape any burst combo a thief has to offer.. 45 sec cooldown is needed for another big opener…. Dodge, evade, 3 times on a mesmer combo and still get pwnd halfway across the map no where near him.. Anet listen up add more risk for high dps and quit giving scrubs cheese builds to equal skilled players who dont want to play a cheese class for scrub builds

Read some other informative thread out there and see if you can learn something to help you improve your play. As mesmer are strong, annoying they can be, but op no. So try to learn their mechanic and learn to counter them.

On the note, mesmer clone does no dmg and phantasm only hurt like hell when your up against a phantasm mesmer. Please don’t try to go all for nothing thief build, i have a mesmer and a thief, and i can eat mesmer in both spvp and tpvp except for Phantasm mesmer that kites you and let their phantasm melt you away. Phantasm mesmer are just that strong 1v1.

I play both classes as well nor do i play a full glass thief10/30/30 isnt glass… this comparison does not include scrubs… were comparing highly skilled competitive players who undestrstand mechanics of all classes….I know the counters for mesmers… trust me when I say mesmer is absolute cheese.. we all know which phantoms to dodge.. its the range of the phantoms are able to atk from. its not the sword phantoms its the pistol phantoms … I will post videos later to explain the cheese… My point is why are they able to do high dmg with minimal skill or risk.. Never said mesmers are op.. yes they can be beat at top lvl no doubt but the amount of survivability and time it takes to 1v1 a mesmer who does equivalent burst dmg and more sustained dmg as a thief…. should be looked at…

Phantasmal Mesmers have to wait on a 16+ second cooldown for each of their Phantasms. They are also very fragile.

Treat a Phantasmal Mesmer like a Minionmancer, kill the hard hitting Minions, THEN focus on the Mesmer. Granted the Phantasmal Duelist is a little bit on the strong side for being so hard to dodge, but there are ways around it. Most good players know the ways around it.

try to use a shatter mesmer to 1 v 1 a burst d/p thief and you will know how not op shatter mesmer is lol

Try to play close point mesmer in a high rated match. Hardest role, imo.

Rerroll.9083:

Try to play close point mesmer in a high rated match. Hardest role, imo.

Try playing close point. Far point. Mid point. Inbetween middle-far. Close to Close but between Mid. Near an enemy. Or any other role as a Warrior in a high rated match.

Hardest role, imo.

Shatters builds aren’t the one you’re suppose to be scared about.. Phantom Mesmer are..

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Phantasmal Mesmers have to wait on a 16+ second cooldown for each of their Phantasms. They are also very fragile.

Treat a Phantasmal Mesmer like a Minionmancer, kill the hard hitting Minions, THEN focus on the Mesmer. Granted the Phantasmal Duelist is a little bit on the strong side for being so hard to dodge, but there are ways around it. Most good players know the ways around it.

Irrelevant to the original topic, but what are the “hard hitting” minions you’re talking about for a minionmancer?

Flesh Golem, Flesh Wurm, and Shadow Fiend are the hardest hitting/most annoying.

more cheese than condition engi or d/d ele? nah

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Flesh Golem, Flesh Wurm, and Shadow Fiend are the hardest hitting/most annoying.

Alright. I’ve always tried to focus the golem first because the knockdown is a royal pain and it hits hard, but it’s just so bulky. Thanks for the clarification on the others though.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Flesh Golem, Flesh Wurm, and Shadow Fiend are the hardest hitting/most annoying.

Necro minions are no where near in comparison to illusions. Duelist deal a constant 6k+ while also applying 5-7 bleeds and each shot (x8) can be made into a 100% projectile finisher, so an Ethereal field would add 8 Confusion to your target.

WarLock. Deals constant 6k and scales in damage by 10% per unique condition.. personally my best hit has been 11k on a Ranger.

iZerker is an AoE cripple combined with lots of damage (even after being bugged)

Golem’s charge is the only one comparable, but that would be comparing an Elite Vs a Wep Skill and also, 16cd makes them rather spammable.

This is from my personal experience as mesmer, which i’ve been playing a little too much lately :]

google.3709:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Flesh Golem, Flesh Wurm, and Shadow Fiend are the hardest hitting/most annoying.

Necro minions are no where near in comparison to illusions. Duelist deal a constant 6k+ while also applying 5-7 bleeds and each shot (x8) can be made into a 100% projectile finisher, so an Ethereal field would add 8 Confusion to your target.

WarLock. Deals constant 6k and scales in damage by 10% per unique condition.. personally my best hit has been 11k on a Ranger.

iZerker is an AoE cripple combined with lots of damage (even after being bugged)

Golem’s charge is the only one comparable, but that would be comparing an Elite Vs a Wep Skill and also, 16cd makes them rather spammable.

This is from my personal experience as mesmer, which i’ve been playing a little too much lately :]

People are so dead set on comparing phantasms to minions… Totally different roles…. One is minions can follow outside of combat where as phantasms are target bound (hence why there is less AI trouble with phantasms) Minions can also pull conditions from necros if traited (wish phantasms could but hey) Necros have damaging attacks outside of the minions in their weapon skills… If mesmers had that (all phantasms were slot skills) the weapon skills replacing them would most likely hit just as hard and the phantasms that are now utility skills would behave completely differently…

Maybe I am reading this wrong but are you saying the duelist can apply multiple bleeds with an individual shot or per attack chain (hopefully the latter)? And warlock only deals constant 6k if you have 3 traits empowered illusions (bye bye mental torment) Phantasmal fury (no blade training) and phantasmal strength which would take most points from illusions that a shatter mes would use and put them into a vitality tree… And the zerker is still in a weird place hopefully this new patch addresses it…

Lastly Golem charge isn’t quite comparable because none of our phantasms have hard CC. The closest we get is the buggy iZerker which is a cripple not a KD.

while we’re at it, let’s talk turrets…

you can’t CC them, you can’t predict their attack patterns, and you can’t ignore them either. Then, when you actually focus on the turrets for the few seconds it takes to kill them, the freaking engineer is up your kitten with some probe or enema that causes you to bleed for days and slap yourself in the forehead.

way OP.

srsly, anet, fix this.

Yes, the Shatter-Mesmers combo is very strong and has a rather low CD and isn’t as hard to land as other combos with similar DPS, but:

1) You’re playing a Thief if I’ve read your Post right and Thief isn’t really very good in a 1v1 vs a Mesmer and I don’t think that it’s wise (and not even possible at all) to make all MU’s balanced in a 1v1. So simply try an avoid 1v1’s against Mesmers.
2) Playing a Mesmer requires tons of Skill. Only using the Portal right is one of the hardest things to do in this game.
3) Playing against a Mesmer also requires a lot of Skill, so learn the MU before complaining.
4) In the current Meta, Mesmers aren’t that great to begin with, especially the glass-cannon shatter-builds that don’t kill anything in this tanky meta and get totally pwned by conditions and currently, everyone plays 1-2 very strong condition-builds in their setup, like: HGH, Trap-Rangers, Necros and even condition-mesmers.

stop whining, Mesmers aren’t the big Problem atm, IMHO, OP builds aren’t – better start buffing some skills/traits/classes no1 uses and see how we can deal with potentially strong builds then instead of just trying to fix the good builds.

My point stood for all pet based builds.

If a Minionmancer is tough, then he does no damage, he gets all his damage/toughness from his Minions. Kill them in the appropriate order and he will fall. Similar rules for Mesmer apply.

It’s not September anymore man, these kind of posts don’t fly. Mesmers pale in comparison to Eles, Guardians, Eng, and Rangers in sPvP. They’re not bad, but they’re not even close to top tier in this meta.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

My point stood for all pet based builds.

If a Minionmancer is tough, then he does no damage, he gets all his damage/toughness from his Minions. Kill them in the appropriate order and he will fall. Similar rules for Mesmer apply.

No.. Just no..
If you try to kill the phantasms you will have a bad time.
There is simply too low a CD on the summoning skills.
I’ve watched Thief v Mesmer duels where the thief tried different strategies, and killing the phantasms was probably the worst.

Celeras.4980:

It’s not September anymore man, these kind of posts don’t fly. Mesmers pale in comparison to Eles, Guardians, Eng, and Rangers in sPvP. They’re not bad, but they’re not even close to top tier in this meta.

The only reason the mesmer is still played in tPvP is because of his utilities. The rest every other class can do a lot better.

illusion of life bug FTW!!!

KrisHQ.4719:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

My point stood for all pet based builds.

If a Minionmancer is tough, then he does no damage, he gets all his damage/toughness from his Minions. Kill them in the appropriate order and he will fall. Similar rules for Mesmer apply.

No.. Just no..
If you try to kill the phantasms you will have a bad time.
There is simply too low a CD on the summoning skills.
I’ve watched Thief v Mesmer duels where the thief tried different strategies, and killing the phantasms was probably the worst.

A 16 second cooldown is not a low CD when you can kill them all with AoEs, or 2 hits from a ranged weapon. I play Phantasmal Mesmer myself, and when a good player disables my Phantasms and I have to wait for that cooldown to get my damage up again… I’m in trouble.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Phantasmal Mesmers have to wait on a 16+ second cooldown for each of their Phantasms. They are also very fragile.

Treat a Phantasmal Mesmer like a Minionmancer, kill the hard hitting Minions, THEN focus on the Mesmer. Granted the Phantasmal Duelist is a little bit on the strong side for being so hard to dodge, but there are ways around it. Most good players know the ways around it.

I was messing around with my engineer last night trying out a bunker build and ran into one of these guys – kitten do those phantasms put out a kittenload of damage!! It’s like thief burst but over and over until you kill the phantasm.

Precisely, it’s risky allowing a Phantasm to stay on the battlefield. Always kill them when they appear. They only take 1-3 hits, so it shouldn’t be difficult. If you do not kill them, they will slowly eat you alive.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Precisely, it’s risky allowing a Phantasm to stay on the battlefield. Always kill them when they appear. They only take 1-3 hits, so it shouldn’t be difficult. If you do not kill them, they will slowly eat you alive.

Yep lesson learned for sure :P But the engi build i was playing does next to no damage so probably more like 10 hits from me I could barely survive until help arrived.

My phantasm build is specced into 20% more health + 50% more health signet so thats phantasm’s having 70% extra of it original health. I see people try to hit them down. The health of them increased dramatically and although it is possible i would not reomment making them your priority target.
Mesmer advice

Psych.6527:

My phantasm build is specced into 20% more health + 50% more health signet so thats phantasm’s having 70% extra of it original health. I see people try to hit them down. The health of them increased dramatically and although it is possible i would not reomment making them your priority target.
Mesmer advice

The signet has an incorrect tool tip it in fact grants them a health boost 1 to 10 seconds after they are summoned of about +200%.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Illusions

Mesmers are the cheapest, most garbage class I have ever seen in a game.

Could be that most people got mesmer tyranny fatigue in the first few months and just gave up on raising the issue in the forums. They’re obviously incapable of reworking the class, or even adjusting the a.i. correctly.

Any time you have that many targets on screen, you’re going to mess up, but especially when the player is blinking, stealthing + dropping target, ccing, and/or spending so much time invulnerable. Time in battle is too important. You can’t be expected to watch or kill all that a.i., and yet they’re going to end up naturally body blocking attacks. Minion Nec’s are almost as bad, it’s just a different flavor of a broke a.i. mechanic. You can’t have 3 to 6 additional targets hitting you that hard (or that spammable) and expect people to find it fun or fair to fight against.

This class absolutely junks out the battlefield and the game by default, and while I don’t care about e-sports, I think few enjoy watching the chaotic, incoherent bs they bring on an exponential level to every skirmish. The onus is just too big and automatic, and no one should have to jump through all the hoops of identifying builds and dealing with all that fire-and-forget trash just to fight back.

Master Charles.7093:

Mesmers are the cheapest, most garbage class I have ever seen in a game.

Could be that most people got mesmer tyranny fatigue in the first few months and just gave up on raising the issue in the forums. They’re obviously incapable of reworking the class, or even adjusting the a.i. correctly.

Any time you have that many targets on screen, you’re going to mess up, but especially when the player is blinking, stealthing + dropping target, ccing, and/or spending so much time invulnerable. Time in battle is too important. You can’t be expected to watch or kill all that a.i., and yet they’re going to end up naturally body blocking attacks. Minion Nec’s are almost as bad, it’s just a different flavor of a broke a.i. mechanic. You can’t have 3 to 6 additional targets hitting you that hard (or that spammable) and expect people to find it fun or fair to fight against.

This class absolutely junks out the battlefield and the game by default, and while I don’t care about e-sports, I think few enjoy watching the chaotic, incoherent bs they bring on an exponential level to every skirmish. The onus is just too big and automatic, and no one should have to jump through all the hoops of identifying builds and dealing with all that fire-and-forget trash just to fight back.

Not sure what class you play… But AOE conditions are your friend… If you are a warrior you can prolly handle a phantasm Mesmer easier than a shatter Mesmer because one whirlwind attack will knock out the phantasms. If you are a thief use stealth to your advantage…. Think of it this way… We may have the invuln on sword 2 but we have no other evades out side of that….. Also if its a phantasm Mesmer picking out the real one should be quite easy. Every class has some AI that they can choose to rely on… Mesmers aren’t that bad… Try to be a good sport… We have gotten plenty of nerfs (phantasms pausing before first attack can’t summon on blind/invuln).

Something funny just in a tourney last night I got complimented on my skill by a thief after beating him… He showed no anger or anything… Was a very fun game. Me and a S/D ele were fighting each other on a point for about 3 minutes before another showed up and they downed me… Once again we both tipped our hats…. Point is you may learn to like people more and respect players more if you go into the games happy… Instead of XYZ is so OP because of its basic mechanics and needs obliterated… Just doesn’t work man.

@Jportell: I’m not trying to talk bad about mesmer players, I’m just trying to state my opinion about the game. I understand you play a mesmer, but don’t try to make me out to be a bad sport. Naturally the game isn’t perfect, but you’re quoting me every time I speak about your class like it is. It’s getting old, man.

Also, warrior is the only class with no a.i., and I don’t use a greatsword with mine. Again, I play all 8 classes. Regardless, I’m trying to talk about the game, not our merit or playstyles.

Agree mesmer is total cheese, yes I play Necro and Mesmer 99% of the time.

Master Charles.7093:

@Jportell: I’m not trying to talk bad about mesmer players, I’m just trying to state my opinion about the game. I understand you play a mesmer, but don’t try to make me out to be a bad sport. Naturally the game isn’t perfect, but you’re quoting me every time I speak about your class like it is. It’s getting old, man.

Also, warrior is the only class with no a.i., and I don’t use a greatsword with mine. Again, I play all 8 classes. Regardless, I’m trying to talk about the game, not our merit or playstyles.

You are trying to justify destroying a class based off of its base mechanics. I can understand pointing out things in certain builds that need adjusting or nerfing. But griping about the classes mechanics hoping to get it changed is not only asinine but is what is really getting old.