Guild Wars 2

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

Edit:
I didn’t realize this thread would catch fire that fast so I will be more specific about why I think so

Some time ago mesmer filled to role of a team supportive kind of class with portal iol timewarp/moa etc while still being able to survive pretty well and dealing a lot of damage…some could say having everything was op but the mesmer skills are very easy to dodge so it is a balanced class overall compared to some others

At the moment due to heavy aoe cc and passive condition spam coming from classes like spirit ranger or warrior combined with pistol whip thieves almost oneshotting a mesmer with a single skill mesmer is forced to play 2 ranged weapons which are staff and gs which makes them a roamer that has to kite around points in conquest while providing his team with portals to outroam the enemy team which only works if you have enough classes that can stand on the points because otherwise your mesmer has to and he will shut down in seconds -> reminds me of thief here

The problem is that mesmer is not safe and it doesnt matter how fast you teleport around because there is always a thief chasing you around the map (if the enemy team knows how to) completely shutting you down with teleports that have pretty much no cd and work on all axes
Therefore you are forced to run more utilities like decoy or blink and mass invis that ensure that you can survive long enough to actually do work with your portal leaving less space for team utilities like iol and moa/timewarp.

Now to the main problem: the role of mesmer

Dealing damage: Thief deals more damage in a shorter period of time with less risk
thief almost always has a skill ready to do dmg due to initiative system..mesmer is on cooldown pretty fast

Surviving: Mesmer has a pretty good chance of surviving as long as the enemy team doesnt have a thief especially after the vigor nerf it will be even harder …whereas as a thief you can do what you want when it comes to repositioning as long as you know how to play better than the enemy thief (matter of skill not a matter of your class here)

Roaming: Mesmer has portal which is pretty much the only reason mesmer is still viable (Thief has very fast mobility with all his ports on a very low cd being able to jump almost a range of 2000 combining some skills in 1 sec)

Duels: people will say you should just play different if you are forced to duel on your mesmer and that mesmer is the best duel class anyways but first of all mesmer is not the best duel class by far anymore second of all since we have conquest mode and mesmer is forced to run 2 ranged weapons he cant effectively fight on a point and has to kite the enemy which makes you lose the point for sure.. and this doesnt even guarantee a win against some of the classes there are in the current meta so it’s a lose lose situation at some point

Team support: portal, boon remove, mass invis these are the main things for mesmer but they are only possible if you don’t get shut down by the enemy thief (see the problem?)
thief can stack might/heal/stack swiftness with his blast finishers, can steal 2 boons every 20 secs to give them to your team (priority is stability whereas stability gets removed last when you use your shatter skills on mesmer), thief also has shadow refuge for almost guaranteed rezzes and perfect team support, thief has a lot of immobilises and stuns and dazes on demand with the current pistol whip build

Summary:
in my opinion mesmer is almost fine but a lot of classes need to be changed
in order to balance the game and bring classes back into the meta
I won’t go into the specifics on how to nerf certain classes since we have a lot of posts on them on the forum already

Necromancer: dmg nerf (happening next patch anyways)
Warrior: sustain nerf and condition damage nerf!! (change bersercer stance, cleansing ire, the damage when running soldier’s amulett)
Thief: nerf the ports and change pistol whip and steal
Guard: pretty much fine right now
Ranger: reduce passive stuff and nerf spirit of nature
Engineer: give him the ability to instantly remove a few condis (change passive stuff AR and some of the passive traits)
Elementalist: nerf the damage and dont make the skills being instant anymore + buff the sustain in order to get ele to the place it should be: a team supportive class

I don’t agree with that for one you can’t call anything yet, things can still change and the patch hasn’t hit, who knows what will happen to the meta.

At the end of the day you practice your build enough everything is viable to a certain extent.

We haven’t even seen the full balance notes yet, only a few of the changes..

Nothing more will come. They said the posted patch nodes are not complete but only small things are missing. The problem is, that our (sPvP feedback) does not count. They also told us that the do trust metrics and hidden numbers but not good players at this forum like sensotix. So they ‘fixing’ a classes based on sPvP feedback. Tell them Mesmer is bad in PvE. Maybe this will helps. We scream since month about the warrior and thief. Since 2 month about the decap engi and nothing found its way to the patchnotes. Not one bit. So Mesmer will stay out of the sPvP meta and we see in the next 6 month still guardian/warrior/warrior/ranger/thief tournaments over and over and the decap engi will decap the soloQ as well.

Constant.7498:

I don’t agree with that for one you can’t call anything yet, things can still change and the patch hasn’t hit, who knows what will happen to the meta.

At the end of the day you practice your build enough everything is viable to a certain extent.

Not really.. the “pre-PAX” patch could be completely foreseen and everyone called that would make necromansers nuclear condition bombs even before the patch hit in… so it happened.

People said that the initiative buff to thiefs would make them unstoppable killing machines, especially to other berserk builds… so it happened.

Lupanic.6502:

Nothing more will come. They said the posted patch nodes are not complete but only small things are missing. The problem is, that our (sPvP feedback) does not count. They also told us that the do trust metrics and hidden numbers but not good players at this forum like sensotix. So they ‘fixing’ a classes based on sPvP feedback. Tell them Mesmer is bad in PvE. Maybe this will helps. We scream since month about the warrior and thief. Since 2 month about the decap engi and nothing found its way to the patchnotes. Not one bit. So Mesmer will stay out of the sPvP meta and we see in the next 6 month still guardian/warrior/warrior/ranger/thief tournaments over and over and the decap engi will decap the soloQ as well.

This is the type of comment that WOULD make the dev’s not listen to players feedback, and if you honestly think the dev’s do not listen to our feedback then your just plain ignorant.

Comments like this is why I don’t like to visit or comment on the forums much.

saVdoom.2067:

Constant.7498:

I don’t agree with that for one you can’t call anything yet, things can still change and the patch hasn’t hit, who knows what will happen to the meta.

At the end of the day you practice your build enough everything is viable to a certain extent.

Not really.. the “pre-PAX” patch could be completely foreseen and everyone called that would make necromansers nuclear condition bombs even before the patch hit in… so it happened.

People said that the initiative buff to thiefs would make them unstoppable killing machines, especially to other berserk builds… so it happened.

My last comment in this thread, you are saying that necromancers are good at dealing “condition bombs”, I’m absolutely fine with that that’s what a necros role should do. I dodged a signet of spite once before.

And as for thief’s do you honestly think they are unstoppable killing machines? Because personally I don’t.

Constant.7498:

Lupanic.6502:

Nothing more will come. They said the posted patch nodes are not complete but only small things are missing. The problem is, that our (sPvP feedback) does not count. They also told us that the do trust metrics and hidden numbers but not good players at this forum like sensotix. So they ‘fixing’ a classes based on sPvP feedback. Tell them Mesmer is bad in PvE. Maybe this will helps. We scream since month about the warrior and thief. Since 2 month about the decap engi and nothing found its way to the patchnotes. Not one bit. So Mesmer will stay out of the sPvP meta and we see in the next 6 month still guardian/warrior/warrior/ranger/thief tournaments over and over and the decap engi will decap the soloQ as well.

This is the type of comment that WOULD make the dev’s not listen to players feedback, and if you honestly think the dev’s do not listen to our feedback then your just plain ignorant.

Comments like this is why I don’t like to visit or comment on the forums much.

I am developer by myself. I know how they feel if they read my comment. But look at the truth. Look at it.

Name me one point in the next patch that is clearly based on our feedback. Most of the things are against our feedback, our requests and our needs.

Please post one point that is based on the feedback.

Many many real good player (not like me) posted in this forum or in the classes / balance section what the sPvP player wants/need. Nothing happend for 6 month. Ok maybe it takes resources and time to create something and collect our feedback. Now they create a bug feature/balance patch and NOTHING is for us.

So what do you think should I post?

Come on sensotix, your feedback is great. Devs will surly look at the mesmer in sPvP and bring him back into the meta? See they nerfed the warrior…. oh wait they buffed him with sigils…. but they nerfed the thief so he will not pw you all the time… oh wait no they did not. But the nerfed the decap engi so that this spot in team will be free for mesmer…. oh no they don’t.

Lupanic.6502:

Constant.7498:

Lupanic.6502:

Nothing more will come. They said the posted patch nodes are not complete but only small things are missing. The problem is, that our (sPvP feedback) does not count. They also told us that the do trust metrics and hidden numbers but not good players at this forum like sensotix. So they ‘fixing’ a classes based on sPvP feedback. Tell them Mesmer is bad in PvE. Maybe this will helps. We scream since month about the warrior and thief. Since 2 month about the decap engi and nothing found its way to the patchnotes. Not one bit. So Mesmer will stay out of the sPvP meta and we see in the next 6 month still guardian/warrior/warrior/ranger/thief tournaments over and over and the decap engi will decap the soloQ as well.

This is the type of comment that WOULD make the dev’s not listen to players feedback, and if you honestly think the dev’s do not listen to our feedback then your just plain ignorant.

Comments like this is why I don’t like to visit or comment on the forums much.

I am developer by myself. I know how they feel if they read my comment. But look at the truth. Look at it.

Name me one point in the next patch that is clearly based on our feedback. Most of the things are against our feedback, our requests and our needs.

Please post one point that is based on the feedback.

Many many real good player (not like me) posted in this forum or in the classes / balance section what the sPvP player wants/need. Nothing happend for 6 month. Ok maybe it takes resources and time to create something and collect our feedback. Now they create a bug feature/balance patch and NOTHING is for us.

So what do you think should I post?

Come on sensotix, your feedback is great. Devs will surly look at the mesmer in sPvP and bring him back into the meta? See they nerfed the warrior…. oh wait they buffed him with sigils…. but they nerfed the thief so he will not pw you all the time… oh wait no they did not. But the nerfed the decap engi so that this spot in team will be free for mesmer…. oh no they don’t.

Anybody can claim they are a developer because the concept of proof doesn’t exist.

Assuming you are in fact a developer, you seem to show a lack of professionalism and you probably are not an MMORPG developer. One of the most important things about professionals are, they don’t make assumptions about other people’s job UNLESS they have been in a very similiar situation and I honestly doubt you have been, but I digress.

The reason why they don’t seem to listen to the feedback given here, is probably because the feedback here only represents a very small but subset of the total players in the game. With that said, JUST because they don’t do exactly what you want doesn’t mean they don’t listen. The fall of the elementalist and the rise of the warrior and necromancers are the DIRECT result of listening to the so called PRO.

Doesn’t matter, Anet will do as Anet does.

We are minorities of minorities, and so unfit to do more than scribble on meaningless walls. Understand that and a lot more makes sense.

Besides – there are very compelling business reasons for the company to not pay any attention to pvp in this game.

Anybody can claim they are a developer because the concept of proof doesn’t exist.

Assuming you are in fact a developer, you seem to show a lack of professionalism and you probably are not an MMORPG developer. One of the most important things about professionals are, they don’t make assumptions about other people’s job UNLESS they have been in a very similiar situation and I honestly doubt you have been, but I digress.

The reason why they don’t seem to listen to the feedback given here, is probably because the feedback here only represents a very small but subset of the total players in the game. With that said, JUST because they don’t do exactly what you want doesn’t mean they don’t listen. The fall of the elementalist and the rise of the warrior and necromancers are the DIRECT result of listening to the so called PRO.

No I am developing web application for the automobile supply industry. I can imagine that it is very hard for them to make all people happy.
But I disagree with you that the current situation is a result of the feedback of the pros.

I agree that the feedback here only represents a very small but subset of the total players. But look at the majority of the player. They have no idea about other classes or the balance. Very good players playing in top teams for a very long time knows why something work and something do not. Player like me or causals are always QQ about the class they are playing. Asking for OP abbilities and want to see other classes burn.

Very good player see the complete picture. If you talk to Engineer players like Chaithh, Ostricheggs, Teldo, Koroshi or many other very good players they do not scream for OP ablities. But they name the problems.

Look at the Ostricheggs HGH video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hx93LdkAOg look at the way he describes Elixir S at minute 7. He tells directly this is overpowered. And this is his build and his main class.

Look at the streams of the top players. All of them discuss from time to time the balanec and I never see this player asking for the I win button.

I am sure the majority of the GW2 players can not see the complete picture and they should not be asked in balance questions.

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

Sensotix – can you elaborate on this a bit?

For example:

What role do Mesmers perform in PvP?

What problems do Mesmers have currently in high end PvP?

How, in your opinion, will the new patch impact the Mesmer’s problems?

What additional roles can a Mesmer perform? If none, what is keeping the Mesmer from taking on a different role?

silvermember.8941:

The fall of the elementalist and the rise of the warrior and necromancers are the DIRECT result of listening to the so called PRO.

That is not true. I recall, during a SotG way back, Chappy distinctly saying they were watching the elementalists because double ele was the meta, and double anything is a sure sign the profession is imbalanced.

I also recall, during a SotG (prior to the HS insanity) many high ranking players saying Warrior was actually in a fairly decent spot, but other professions were imbalanced.

I also recall Zombify stating, prior to the Dhuumfire patch, that Necros were in a decent spot, and could use a couple of small buffs. When the the proposed Necro changes announced, he stated they were out of whack.

Please don’t derail this thread with misinformation. This is about the Mesmer SotG, nothing else.

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

He’s being sarcastic.

I’m terrified of power block.

Wow, you’ve been on a whining rampage for the past couple of weeks, calm down for a bit. I thought the same was true for thieves in the december 10 patch, but everything turned out nicely (at least for thieves lol). Give them a break.

Dirame.8521:

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

He’s being sarcastic.

i am not wow.
do you play this game?

Sensotix.4106:

Dirame.8521:

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

He’s being sarcastic.

i am not wow.
do you play this game?

I do, but you aren’t doing a good job of being articulate though.

Laquito – the problem was that many thieves were complaining about the Dec 10 nerfs and not paying attention to the substantial passive initiative regen buff they were getting.

Mesmers are in a quite different place. Most mesmers are quite aware of its deficiencies and the problems it has against the apex predator thief, not to mention its lack of burst and sustain against HS warriors.

The balance changes and new traits don’t shore up any of the deficiencies with Mesmer, nor can they provide enough new capability to open Mesmers up to a new role in the meta.

Power Block is nice, but it won’t help take down thieves or warriors. Taking Power Block will make Mesmers even squishier than they currently are.
The other GM traits are not very good for PvP (Maim may be, depending on the #’s).

However, thieves get Resilience of Shadows, which is ridiculously overpowered. It’s an incredible group buff and will all but guarantee a thief can rez a player. It’s better than Illusion of Life.

So, what we see here is that thieves are getting a GM with incredible group utility, while Mesmers are not getting anything to make them viable in the meta.

Mesmer itself actually isn’t that bad.
The common shatter Build hasn’t seen a nerf / change in a very long time, but the upcomming vigor gain nerf and nerf to DE will hit all mesmers.
The reasons you don’t see many Mesmers (besides PU) is, because they simply get outperformed by other proffessions like Thieves.

Lockdown Mesmer rly seemed like a new exciting Mesmer tree. However, the Interrupt/Lockdown system is basicly Offense and Defense for the Mesmers at the same time. Not to mention that interrupting thieves is extremly hard and even if it works, it is not very effective.
So the reason why lockdown mesmers probably never will become “meta” is, because they have a lot of problems dealing with thieves.

The reason, Mesmer is in a bad spot, are not necessarily nerfs, it is that every other profession seemed to have gotten buffed.

What kind of Thief went deep in SA to get Resilience of Shadows? A Thief that doesn’t kill you?

There are several build concepts that are incredibly viable for tpvp play as a mesmer after the patch on the 15th.

Consider Bountiful Disillusionment, which will essentially bring back shatter mesmers. There’s a lot of survivability available through this avenue. If you were to combine that with something like a 1/0/6/0/6 build with Maim the Disillusioned, it could potentially generate a pretty substantial shatter concept. Especially if you utilized Staff as a clone factory and spec’d for condition damage. (Keep in mind staff now gets two sigils.)

Alternatively, a 6/0/0/1/6 build concentrating on interruption with Power Block and Disruptor’s Sustainment utilizing Halting Strike, Sw/P and Signet of Distraction could be extremely useful.

People QQ about professions being “in a bad place” when they don’t consider the roles in which those professions are more inclined to excel, and instead attempt to play the profession as another role. Mesmer is a very versatile class. I personally wish there was a little more viability as a support role, but perhaps with Distruptor’s Sustainment a full mantra support build will be more viable. Mantra of distraction for the Healing Power boost coupled with Mantras of Concentration and Resolve, Restorative Mantras, Mantra Mastery and Harmonious Mantras. (6/1/0/6/0) Also, consider Runes of the Monk and Sigil of Benevolence.

Mesmers current role is equal to sitting on the bench. Other classes can fill rolls better than a mesmer.

Mythoryk.7984:

Consider Bountiful Disillusionment, which will essentially bring back shatter mesmers.

I don’t think that this trait is worth picking up. One of the current uses build 20/20/30/0/0 already puts in 30 points in that line, but it still does not bring enough survival-ability to bring the mesmer in a better spot.

Alternatively, a 6/0/0/1/6 build concentrating on interruption with Power Block and Disruptor’s Sustainment utilizing Halting Strike, Sw/P and Signet of Distraction could be extremely useful.

Power Block will shut down a single skill. When you manage to hit the healing skill, it will help you, but you’ll most likely still die to his other skills.

Well, considering gw2score I can see, why you are so positive about every upcoming change. On some levels you can play every trait setup and still be successful.

Anyway, I still think it is too early to QQ about the mesmer, until the patch hits, and we can test it all out.

Thedenofsin.7340:

silvermember.8941:

The fall of the elementalist and the rise of the warrior and necromancers are the DIRECT result of listening to the so called PRO.

That is not true. I recall, during a SotG way back, Chappy distinctly saying they were watching the elementalists because double ele was the meta, and double anything is a sure sign the profession is imbalanced.

I also recall, during a SotG (prior to the HS insanity) many high ranking players saying Warrior was actually in a fairly decent spot, but other professions were imbalanced.

I also recall Zombify stating, prior to the Dhuumfire patch, that Necros were in a decent spot, and could use a couple of small buffs. When the the proposed Necro changes announced, he stated they were out of whack.

Please don’t derail this thread with misinformation. This is about the Mesmer SotG, nothing else.

I was talking about beta slick. Everybody was whining how OP the elementalist was. The bunker ele that was “strong” was the result of the nerf from bwe2, since we had no alternatives.

Anyways, thank you for attempting to play though. It is always nice to see someone attempt to swing and miss.

also just because I don’t agree with the circlejerking doesn’t mean I am derailing, I am simply providing another reason why listening to the crowd on this forum is a bad idea, not always but some times.

Mythoryk.7984:

There are several build concepts that are incredibly viable for tpvp play as a mesmer after the patch on the 15th.

Consider Bountiful Disillusionment, which will essentially bring back shatter mesmers. There’s a lot of survivability available through this avenue. If you were to combine that with something like a 1/0/6/0/6 build with Maim the Disillusioned, it could potentially generate a pretty substantial shatter concept. Especially if you utilized Staff as a clone factory and spec’d for condition damage. (Keep in mind staff now gets two sigils.)

Alternatively, a 6/0/0/1/6 build concentrating on interruption with Power Block and Disruptor’s Sustainment utilizing Halting Strike, Sw/P and Signet of Distraction could be extremely useful.

People QQ about professions being “in a bad place” when they don’t consider the roles in which those professions are more inclined to excel, and instead attempt to play the profession as another role. Mesmer is a very versatile class. I personally wish there was a little more viability as a support role, but perhaps with Distruptor’s Sustainment a full mantra support build will be more viable. Mantra of distraction for the Healing Power boost coupled with Mantras of Concentration and Resolve, Restorative Mantras, Mantra Mastery and Harmonious Mantras. (6/1/0/6/0) Also, consider Runes of the Monk and Sigil of Benevolence.

I don’t see very much potential in a Shatter Build without DE.
And Interrupt Builds get eaten alive by thieves, as they are almost immune to interrupts.
And even if Maim the Disillusioned will be a “good” trait, it is applying torment. That’s one of the most hated Conditions of all Condis out there.
I mean, Hambow Warrior and Thieves are also viable now and PU is good for Duels, as long your enemy can’t run away or you have to hold a point. But almost nobody likes those builds.
I don’t want to see torment Mesmer be the next Cheese Meta stuff.

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

No one will take your comments seriously if they are this broad. You need to be more specific.

1v1: Mesmer is currently the best class for this. I don’t see that changing with the patch. At EQUAL skill levels, the mesmer will win.

Team Fights: Pretty useless. They are good for some burst (depending on their spec), but after the next patch, I’d much rather have an ele handle the AOE burst.

silvermember.8941:

Thedenofsin.7340:

silvermember.8941:

The fall of the elementalist and the rise of the warrior and necromancers are the DIRECT result of listening to the so called PRO.

That is not true. I recall, during a SotG way back, Chappy distinctly saying they were watching the elementalists because double ele was the meta, and double anything is a sure sign the profession is imbalanced.

I also recall, during a SotG (prior to the HS insanity) many high ranking players saying Warrior was actually in a fairly decent spot, but other professions were imbalanced.

I also recall Zombify stating, prior to the Dhuumfire patch, that Necros were in a decent spot, and could use a couple of small buffs. When the the proposed Necro changes announced, he stated they were out of whack.

Please don’t derail this thread with misinformation. This is about the Mesmer SotG, nothing else.

I was talking about beta slick. Everybody was whining how OP the elementalist was. The bunker ele that was “strong” was the result of the nerf from bwe2, since we had no alternatives.

Anyways, thank you for attempting to play though. It is always nice to see someone attempt to swing and miss.

also just because I don’t agree with the circlejerking doesn’t mean I am derailing, I am simply providing another reason why listening to the crowd on this forum is a bad idea, not always but some times.

Nice try to retcon, but no dice, buddy. You mentioned elementalists and necromancers and warrior in the same sentence. You weren’t talking about BWE2 (in which people were complaining about everything – including p/p thieves and HB warriors), you were talking about the ele nerfs, dhuumfire and HS post-release.

Anyway, back on topic.

Mythoryk.7984:

Consider Bountiful Disillusionment, which will essentially bring back shatter mesmers. There’s a lot of survivability available through this avenue. If you were to combine that with something like a 1/0/6/0/6 build with Maim the Disillusioned, it could potentially generate a pretty substantial shatter concept. Especially if you utilized Staff as a clone factory and spec’d for condition damage. (Keep in mind staff now gets two sigils.)

10/0/30/0/30 won’t work for shatter for 4 reasons:

1. you won’t get vulnerability on diversion (15-20% damage boost)
2. you can’t boon strip, which is needed to peel protection
3. your clone generation isn’t good enough without DE, which means you won’t be able to shatter much or distort much
4. you have no access to vigor, which means you’re dead in the water after 2 dodges

Mythoryk.7984:

Alternatively, a 6/0/0/1/6 build concentrating on interruption with Power Block and Disruptor’s Sustainment utilizing Halting Strike, Sw/P and Signet of Distraction could be extremely useful.

That build isn’t possible. Disruptor’s sustainment is in the Inspiration line, not Illusions.

Mythoryk.7984:

People QQ about professions being “in a bad place” when they don’t consider the roles in which those professions are more inclined to excel, and instead attempt to play the profession as another role. Mesmer is a very versatile class. I personally wish there was a little more viability as a support role, but perhaps with Distruptor’s Sustainment a full mantra support build will be more viable. Mantra of distraction for the Healing Power boost coupled with Mantras of Concentration and Resolve, Restorative Mantras, Mantra Mastery and Harmonious Mantras. (6/1/0/6/0) Also, consider Runes of the Monk and Sigil of Benevolence.

I think you need to consider the roles more carefully. It’s clear you haven’t fully thought them through. Disruptor’s Sustainment will increase Restorative Mantra’s heal by a whopping 200hp. It’s completely ineffective. 6/1/0/6/0 won’t work.

You know, I’m getting real tired of forum QQ.

style.6173:

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

1v1: Mesmer is currently the best class for this. I don’t see that changing with the patch. At EQUAL skill levels, the mesmer will win.

Ok we honestly need to stop that. Its trully missleading. I honestly don’t want to hear any more people come in this thread and say that mesmers are good 1v1.
I’ll try explain:

1v1s in tournaments do NOT happen outside a node, unless you are a class that can engage and disengage easily just to harass someone. Having said that… mesmers do not fit this description, especially if they’re in a “dueling spec” which has few access to gap closers.

Mesmers are far to risky to be left alone to 1v1 in a node, for the simple fact that their main survivability skills are stealth and distortion, BOTH causes you to get uncapped. Besides if you go a more tanky build to not pop those skills that often then you simply does not have enough damage to kill anybody. Besides in most 1v1 situations on a node will be against either: Spirit Ranger, Hambom Warrior, Decap Engineer, Thief. There is literally nothing a mesmer can do against those specs to hold a point and keep the fight going for long.

If you go full glass to nuke people, you’ll be dead by the time the thief look at you, and he himself can have a much better burst now since he can literally spam pistol whip at will, I believe its 5 before he runs out of initiative, while a full burst rotation from a mesmer involves Illusionary Berserk actually hitting the target, and/or Illusionary leap actually getting to your target – and we all know how bugged that is WHEN your target doesn’t dodge after you leap to him, which happens 3/5 times – plus probably you spending Mirror Images for a full burst.

style.6173:

Team Fights: Pretty useless. They are good for some burst (depending on their spec), but after the next patch, I’d much rather have an ele handle the AOE burst.

This part is quite correct.

style.6173:

1v1: Mesmer is currently the best class for this. I don’t see that changing with the patch. At EQUAL skill levels, the mesmer will win.

Why does this matter? It’s not even true anymore. Thief is a much better 1v1 class. And even if Mesmer was still top 1v1, who balances on based on 1v1’s in a 5v5 game?

Chicago Jack.5647:

You know, I’m getting real tired of forum QQ.

So don’t read them.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Mythoryk.7984:

Consider Bountiful Disillusionment, which will essentially bring back shatter mesmers. There’s a lot of survivability available through this avenue. If you were to combine that with something like a 1/0/6/0/6 build with Maim the Disillusioned, it could potentially generate a pretty substantial shatter concept. Especially if you utilized Staff as a clone factory and spec’d for condition damage. (Keep in mind staff now gets two sigils.)

10/0/30/0/30 won’t work for shatter for 4 reasons:

1. you won’t get vulnerability on diversion (15-20% damage boost)
2. you can’t boon strip, which is needed to peel protection
3. your clone generation isn’t good enough without DE, which means you won’t be able to shatter much or distort much
4. you have no access to vigor, which means you’re dead in the water after 2 dodges

Mythoryk.7984:

Alternatively, a 6/0/0/1/6 build concentrating on interruption with Power Block and Disruptor’s Sustainment utilizing Halting Strike, Sw/P and Signet of Distraction could be extremely useful.

That build isn’t possible. Disruptor’s sustainment is in the Inspiration line, not Illusions.

Mythoryk.7984:

People QQ about professions being “in a bad place” when they don’t consider the roles in which those professions are more inclined to excel, and instead attempt to play the profession as another role. Mesmer is a very versatile class. I personally wish there was a little more viability as a support role, but perhaps with Distruptor’s Sustainment a full mantra support build will be more viable. Mantra of distraction for the Healing Power boost coupled with Mantras of Concentration and Resolve, Restorative Mantras, Mantra Mastery and Harmonious Mantras. (6/1/0/6/0) Also, consider Runes of the Monk and Sigil of Benevolence.

I think you need to consider the roles more carefully. It’s clear you haven’t fully thought them through. Disruptor’s Sustainment will increase Restorative Mantra’s heal by a whopping 200hp. It’s completely ineffective. 6/1/0/6/0 won’t work.

As for your 4 theories of holes in the build:
Vigor is nice, but not mandatory when you consider Phase Retreat and Blink as defensive evasive actions.
If you can’t watch the target’s status bar for protection, you’re bad. Also, keep in my my entire post was in regard to team play. Or, how about this…. run Null Field?
DE is certainly beneficial to a shatter build, but certainly not a mandatory component.
When do you EVER maintain 15-20 stacks of vulnerability on anything in PvP? Makes for a pretty moot argument.

I simply put the 6 in the wrong trait line (6/0/0/6/1 being the appropriate set up). My apologies. Pretty obvious that was the mistake. So, that build is certainly possible. I’ve actually played it quite a bit when Halting Strike was introduced. (Sans the new GM trait, naturally.) Halting Strike is a separate damage packet, and hits first… Therefore, it removed aegis before the actual skill damage is applied.

As for the DS mantra build… Seeing as you’d be running a support build, you’d already have well over 1000 Healing Power, (with the additional 1000 from DS) netting ~3000 HP heal to all allies on the point. That’s every 3 seconds. The Runes of the Monk would increase that factor by 10% (presumably after the effects of the increased Healing Power) not to mention the increase DS would give to regen from Phantasmal Healing (an additional 255/s). With the build, you wouldn’t have to focus on anything but interrupting with Mantra of Distraction. If you can’t watch animations and get an interrupt somewhere every 4 seconds, there’s something wrong.

I respect your playing of the devil’s advocate, but unfortunately your counter arguments aren’t really that pertinent.

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

For one, you don’t even know what it’s going to be after patch, so you can stop making it over dramatic. Also the fact that your not specific in the slightest, you wonder why people aren’t taking you seriously in this thread. Mesmer’s at their current state are fine, It’s simply other classes that have way too much on their plate that they don’t even know what to do with. Thief being a good example, initiative is supposed to be a limited resource that must be managed carefully. But it’s the exact opposite.

Also some bugs have alout of weight that people seem to forget as well. Imagine if the z-axis was fixed, that’s a huge buff to any sword main handed Mesmer aka illusionary swap. Next time you might wanna re think what you say before jumping the gun.

Countless

style.6173:

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

No one will take your comments seriously if they are this broad. You need to be more specific.

1v1: Mesmer is currently the best class for this. I don’t see that changing with the patch. At EQUAL skill levels, the mesmer will win.

Team Fights: Pretty useless. They are good for some burst (depending on their spec), but after the next patch, I’d much rather have an ele handle the AOE burst.

mesmer is probably the only class that cant duel any of the current meta classes on a point (which is the goal in conquest mode)

Sensotix.4106:

style.6173:

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

No one will take your comments seriously if they are this broad. You need to be more specific.

1v1: Mesmer is currently the best class for this. I don’t see that changing with the patch. At EQUAL skill levels, the mesmer will win.

Team Fights: Pretty useless. They are good for some burst (depending on their spec), but after the next patch, I’d much rather have an ele handle the AOE burst.

mesmer is probably the only class that cant duel any of the current meta classes on a point (which is the goal in conquest mode)

But people consider Mesmer’s 1v1 abilities as some sort of trade off for sucking at everything else.

Sensotix.4106:

style.6173:

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

No one will take your comments seriously if they are this broad. You need to be more specific.

1v1: Mesmer is currently the best class for this. I don’t see that changing with the patch. At EQUAL skill levels, the mesmer will win.

Team Fights: Pretty useless. They are good for some burst (depending on their spec), but after the next patch, I’d much rather have an ele handle the AOE burst.

mesmer is probably the only class that cant duel any of the current meta classes on a point (which is the goal in conquest mode)

You must be bad at mesmer, then.

Iplaytokill.1674:

Sensotix.4106:

style.6173:

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

No one will take your comments seriously if they are this broad. You need to be more specific.

1v1: Mesmer is currently the best class for this. I don’t see that changing with the patch. At EQUAL skill levels, the mesmer will win.

Team Fights: Pretty useless. They are good for some burst (depending on their spec), but after the next patch, I’d much rather have an ele handle the AOE burst.

mesmer is probably the only class that cant duel any of the current meta classes on a point (which is the goal in conquest mode)

But people consider Mesmer’s 1v1 abilities as some sort of trade off for sucking at everything else.

Because portalling is ineffective in tPvP, amiright? Because Moa isn’t 100% the most clutch skill in the PvP game, amiright? Because Mes GS isn’t the highest/longest range damage in the game, amiright? (ledge supporting portal returning to home is bad, I guess.)

If you roll a mes, and use MI and play your mes like you’re a thief… yea they suck at everything. If you utilize the profession’s mechanics appropriately, and utilize their current support capabilities (which will only get better with the patch on the 15th) they’re pretty substantial when it comes to team play.

People keep mentioning that we’re a minority but I’d love to see a person who frequents sPvP/tPvP who doesn’t visit the forums regularly.

That’s because they don’t exist. Everyone who gives half a kitten about PvP will visit the forums. Thus they’re who should have a say. Anyone else would be indifferent by this logic.

Mythoryk.7984:

Sensotix.4106:

style.6173:

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

No one will take your comments seriously if they are this broad. You need to be more specific.

1v1: Mesmer is currently the best class for this. I don’t see that changing with the patch. At EQUAL skill levels, the mesmer will win.

Team Fights: Pretty useless. They are good for some burst (depending on their spec), but after the next patch, I’d much rather have an ele handle the AOE burst.

mesmer is probably the only class that cant duel any of the current meta classes on a point (which is the goal in conquest mode)

You must be bad at mesmer, then.

i politely ask you to never visit my forums posts again since you obviously have no understanding of the current meta and or know who the good players atm are
maybe you are from na and thats fine..its a different meta there but you obviously have never stepped a foot into the top 100 pvp competetive scene in eu

Sensotix.4106:

Mythoryk.7984:

Sensotix.4106:

style.6173:

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

No one will take your comments seriously if they are this broad. You need to be more specific.

1v1: Mesmer is currently the best class for this. I don’t see that changing with the patch. At EQUAL skill levels, the mesmer will win.

Team Fights: Pretty useless. They are good for some burst (depending on their spec), but after the next patch, I’d much rather have an ele handle the AOE burst.

mesmer is probably the only class that cant duel any of the current meta classes on a point (which is the goal in conquest mode)

You must be bad at mesmer, then.

i politely ask you to never visit my forums posts again since you obviously have no understanding of the current meta and or know who the good players atm are
maybe you are from na and thats fine..its a different meta there but you obviously have never stepped a foot into the top 100 pvp competetive scene in eu

But all you do is SoloQ. O.o Mesmer playability is much different when you’re part of a TEAM. When you’re in soloQ, you’re probably right… Mesmer seems ponceish and pilloky… It’s a different monster in a team paradigm.

Mythoryk.7984:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Mythoryk.7984:

Consider Bountiful Disillusionment, which will essentially bring back shatter mesmers. There’s a lot of survivability available through this avenue. If you were to combine that with something like a 1/0/6/0/6 build with Maim the Disillusioned, it could potentially generate a pretty substantial shatter concept. Especially if you utilized Staff as a clone factory and spec’d for condition damage. (Keep in mind staff now gets two sigils.)

10/0/30/0/30 won’t work for shatter for 4 reasons:

1. you won’t get vulnerability on diversion (15-20% damage boost)
2. you can’t boon strip, which is needed to peel protection
3. your clone generation isn’t good enough without DE, which means you won’t be able to shatter much or distort much
4. you have no access to vigor, which means you’re dead in the water after 2 dodges

Mythoryk.7984:

Alternatively, a 6/0/0/1/6 build concentrating on interruption with Power Block and Disruptor’s Sustainment utilizing Halting Strike, Sw/P and Signet of Distraction could be extremely useful.

That build isn’t possible. Disruptor’s sustainment is in the Inspiration line, not Illusions.

Mythoryk.7984:

People QQ about professions being “in a bad place” when they don’t consider the roles in which those professions are more inclined to excel, and instead attempt to play the profession as another role. Mesmer is a very versatile class. I personally wish there was a little more viability as a support role, but perhaps with Distruptor’s Sustainment a full mantra support build will be more viable. Mantra of distraction for the Healing Power boost coupled with Mantras of Concentration and Resolve, Restorative Mantras, Mantra Mastery and Harmonious Mantras. (6/1/0/6/0) Also, consider Runes of the Monk and Sigil of Benevolence.

I think you need to consider the roles more carefully. It’s clear you haven’t fully thought them through. Disruptor’s Sustainment will increase Restorative Mantra’s heal by a whopping 200hp. It’s completely ineffective. 6/1/0/6/0 won’t work.

As for your 4 theories of holes in the build:
Vigor is nice, but not mandatory when you consider Phase Retreat and Blink as defensive evasive actions.
If you can’t watch the target’s status bar for protection, you’re bad. Also, keep in my my entire post was in regard to team play. Or, how about this…. run Null Field?
DE is certainly beneficial to a shatter build, but certainly not a mandatory component.
When do you EVER maintain 15-20 stacks of vulnerability on anything in PvP? Makes for a pretty moot argument.

Ok so to reply and spell things out for you. AoE is everywhere in this game Warr lbow is enough for this discussion. Keep this in mind when you summon clones with weapon skills and wait around for Prot to run out.
Without DE you will not have enough clones to use with shatter, if you wait around for Prot to disappear or wait for Stab to run out on the Guard as he reses you’ll have less clones/they will regen/they will have res’d.
Nullfield is not enough removal and Mesmer removal has a hard time getting Stability. So DE and boon removal on shatter are very much key traits (i won’t even address not taking vigor).
Maintaining 15-20 stacks of vuln isn’t that important, having them when you spike is very important.

I’m not sure why you’re trying to weaken Mesmers who will read the forums and not think. Its not helpful to spout a bunch of poorly thought through stuff as facts.

Mythoryk.7984:

Sensotix.4106:

Mythoryk.7984:

Sensotix.4106:

style.6173:

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

No one will take your comments seriously if they are this broad. You need to be more specific.

1v1: Mesmer is currently the best class for this. I don’t see that changing with the patch. At EQUAL skill levels, the mesmer will win.

Team Fights: Pretty useless. They are good for some burst (depending on their spec), but after the next patch, I’d much rather have an ele handle the AOE burst.

mesmer is probably the only class that cant duel any of the current meta classes on a point (which is the goal in conquest mode)

You must be bad at mesmer, then.

i politely ask you to never visit my forums posts again since you obviously have no understanding of the current meta and or know who the good players atm are
maybe you are from na and thats fine..its a different meta there but you obviously have never stepped a foot into the top 100 pvp competetive scene in eu

But all you do is SoloQ. O.o Mesmer playability is much different when you’re part of a TEAM. When you’re in soloQ, you’re probably right… Mesmer seems ponceish and pilloky… It’s a different monster in a team paradigm.

Lol- Sensotix is ranked 22 in European TEAM PVP.

/thread

Mythoryk.7984:

Sensotix.4106:

Mythoryk.7984:

Sensotix.4106:

style.6173:

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

No one will take your comments seriously if they are this broad. You need to be more specific.

1v1: Mesmer is currently the best class for this. I don’t see that changing with the patch. At EQUAL skill levels, the mesmer will win.

Team Fights: Pretty useless. They are good for some burst (depending on their spec), but after the next patch, I’d much rather have an ele handle the AOE burst.

mesmer is probably the only class that cant duel any of the current meta classes on a point (which is the goal in conquest mode)

You must be bad at mesmer, then.

i politely ask you to never visit my forums posts again since you obviously have no understanding of the current meta and or know who the good players atm are
maybe you are from na and thats fine..its a different meta there but you obviously have never stepped a foot into the top 100 pvp competetive scene in eu

But all you do is SoloQ. O.o Mesmer playability is much different when you’re part of a TEAM. When you’re in soloQ, you’re probably right… Mesmer seems ponceish and pilloky… It’s a different monster in a team paradigm.

all i do is solo q? wth
I only solo q for fun
better check the team q leaderboards and watch the weekly esl cup..you see me there
please go to the leaderboards and check how many tourny games i have in team q you will see that i am among the 10 players with the most tournament matches played ingame

Mythoryk.7984:

Iplaytokill.1674:

Sensotix.4106:

style.6173:

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

No one will take your comments seriously if they are this broad. You need to be more specific.

1v1: Mesmer is currently the best class for this. I don’t see that changing with the patch. At EQUAL skill levels, the mesmer will win.

Team Fights: Pretty useless. They are good for some burst (depending on their spec), but after the next patch, I’d much rather have an ele handle the AOE burst.

mesmer is probably the only class that cant duel any of the current meta classes on a point (which is the goal in conquest mode)

But people consider Mesmer’s 1v1 abilities as some sort of trade off for sucking at everything else.

Because portalling is ineffective in tPvP, amiright? Because Moa isn’t 100% the most clutch skill in the PvP game, amiright? Because Mes GS isn’t the highest/longest range damage in the game, amiright? (ledge supporting portal returning to home is bad, I guess.)

If you roll a mes, and use MI and play your mes like you’re a thief… yea they suck at everything. If you utilize the profession’s mechanics appropriately, and utilize their current support capabilities (which will only get better with the patch on the 15th) they’re pretty substantial when it comes to team play.

Moa? I lost it there. If you’re using Moa to make a point I don’t even know what to say. Most Mesmers will take Mass Invis over Moa and that was before TW got nerfed.

If this is how discussions on these forums go, do you really think the devs can possibly take any real genuine knowledgeable feedback from this?

You guys really need to step back and look at the bigger picture, which the devs have to do constantly. Not commenting on any of these comments, but some are valid some are just personal opinions with nothing to back it up.

I won’t pretend like I know what will fix the “balance” in this game, but all I do know is this is not a discussion thread at all.

There are a lot of external factors that could affect Mesmer viability however. Matchups between all classes will change substantially. If a build arose which shut thieves out (which is very possible), Mesmer would immediately be back in a more robust spot.

Phaeton.9582:

There are a lot of external factors that could affect Mesmer viability however. Matchups between all classes will change substantially. If a build arose which shut thieves out (which is very possible), Mesmer would immediately be back in a more robust spot.

The only way that would happen is if that ‘new build’ shut down thief stealth. Otherwise, that new build would work doubly well against Mesmers and shut them out as well.

Sensotix – ANet appears to be reluctant to nerf anything. Assuming nothing gets nerfed, what buffs do you think Mesmers need in order to become viable?

Sensotix.4106:

style.6173:

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

No one will take your comments seriously if they are this broad. You need to be more specific.

1v1: Mesmer is currently the best class for this. I don’t see that changing with the patch. At EQUAL skill levels, the mesmer will win.

Team Fights: Pretty useless. They are good for some burst (depending on their spec), but after the next patch, I’d much rather have an ele handle the AOE burst.

mesmer is probably the only class that cant duel any of the current meta classes on a point (which is the goal in conquest mode)

You are mixing a few things. In a tPvP battle, I seriously doubt you designate the mesmer as your bunker. If you do, then your point about fighting on point is quite valid. Of course that isn’t the value of a mesmer.

Mesmers are similar to thieves in this regard. They are much better at attacking points than defending them. They don’t fight on the point since a bunker would have the advantage there. They jump in and out of the point as needed and generally fight around the point. A mesmer should would those fights against the bunker 1v1 virtually always.

The problem is that those fights are more rare in tPvP and usually there is more of a group fight going on. A mesmer doesn’t really bring much to the fight in those scenarios. I’d much rather have virtually any other class for those fights than a mesmer.

I see thief’s are your worst nightmare! I counter thief’s really good with PU power build with personal touch !

style.6173:

Sensotix.4106:

style.6173:

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

No one will take your comments seriously if they are this broad. You need to be more specific.

1v1: Mesmer is currently the best class for this. I don’t see that changing with the patch. At EQUAL skill levels, the mesmer will win.

Team Fights: Pretty useless. They are good for some burst (depending on their spec), but after the next patch, I’d much rather have an ele handle the AOE burst.

mesmer is probably the only class that cant duel any of the current meta classes on a point (which is the goal in conquest mode)

You are mixing a few things. In a tPvP battle, I seriously doubt you designate the mesmer as your bunker. If you do, then your point about fighting on point is quite valid. Of course that isn’t the value of a mesmer.

Mesmers are similar to thieves in this regard. They are much better at attacking points than defending them. They don’t fight on the point since a bunker would have the advantage there. They jump in and out of the point as needed and generally fight around the point. A mesmer should would those fights against the bunker 1v1 virtually always.

The problem is that those fights are more rare in tPvP and usually there is more of a group fight going on. A mesmer doesn’t really bring much to the fight in those scenarios. I’d much rather have virtually any other class for those fights than a mesmer.

problem is mesmer doesnt have enough sustain in a teamfight and if a mesmer loses most of his duels AND loses the point while dueling it is only useful in 2 vs 2 and 3 vs 3
but it’s not always the case that you get a chance to 2vs2 or 3 vs 3 the enemy with a mesmer on your team..sometimes your mesmer decaps a point which you really need and then you are forced into a duel….mesmer needs nothing in particular…the other classes just need nerfs..hard!