Guild Wars 2

So mesmer got problems with thiefs.

Solution:
Nerf ALL classes

silentnight warrior.2714:

So mesmer got problems with thiefs.

Solution:
Nerf ALL classes

not only with thief..i really have to ask you if you play this game :/

Sensotix.4106:

silentnight warrior.2714:

So mesmer got problems with thiefs.

Solution:
Nerf ALL classes

not only with thief..i really have to ask you if you play this game :/

Yes and i’m playing with my mesmer at the moment.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Phaeton.9582:

There are a lot of external factors that could affect Mesmer viability however. Matchups between all classes will change substantially. If a build arose which shut thieves out (which is very possible), Mesmer would immediately be back in a more robust spot.

The only way that would happen is if that ‘new build’ shut down thief stealth. Otherwise, that new build would work doubly well against Mesmers and shut them out as well.

Sensotix – ANet appears to be reluctant to nerf anything. Assuming nothing gets nerfed, what buffs do you think Mesmers need in order to become viable?

There are multiple mesmer builds that will rip thieves apart (read: rip any class/build apart) any time of the day. Unfortunately, those builds make sacrifices for that ability.

You can either have a build that’s stellar in a 1v1, or you can have a build that’s highly mobile, or you can have a build that’s useful in team fights with good utility picks and aoe damage spread. You don’t get them all, you barely can even handle two. That’s the problem.

While there are builds that destroy thieves, a good thief won’t bother to stick around and get destroyed. He’ll go de-cap your point and be back at mid before you’ve figured out he’s gone.

Sensotix.4106:

style.6173:

Sensotix.4106:

style.6173:

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

No one will take your comments seriously if they are this broad. You need to be more specific.

1v1: Mesmer is currently the best class for this. I don’t see that changing with the patch. At EQUAL skill levels, the mesmer will win.

Team Fights: Pretty useless. They are good for some burst (depending on their spec), but after the next patch, I’d much rather have an ele handle the AOE burst.

mesmer is probably the only class that cant duel any of the current meta classes on a point (which is the goal in conquest mode)

You are mixing a few things. In a tPvP battle, I seriously doubt you designate the mesmer as your bunker. If you do, then your point about fighting on point is quite valid. Of course that isn’t the value of a mesmer.

Mesmers are similar to thieves in this regard. They are much better at attacking points than defending them. They don’t fight on the point since a bunker would have the advantage there. They jump in and out of the point as needed and generally fight around the point. A mesmer should would those fights against the bunker 1v1 virtually always.

The problem is that those fights are more rare in tPvP and usually there is more of a group fight going on. A mesmer doesn’t really bring much to the fight in those scenarios. I’d much rather have virtually any other class for those fights than a mesmer.

problem is mesmer doesnt have enough sustain in a teamfight and if a mesmer loses most of his duels AND loses the point while dueling it is only useful in 2 vs 2 and 3 vs 3
but it’s not always the case that you get a chance to 2vs2 or 3 vs 3 the enemy with a mesmer on your team..sometimes your mesmer decaps a point which you really need and then you are forced into a duel….mesmer needs nothing in particular…the other classes just need nerfs..hard!

Mesmer not having sustain in a team fight? Well that depends on your build. I have plenty of sustain personally. I’m sorry but your narrow minded views doesn’t justify all other classes needing nerfs.

Countless

Portal mesmer reminds me of Pitlord from Dota. . . oh those 5 man global ganks from no where.

Really it doesn’t matter what is underpowered or overpowered. This game has no competitive scene and never will do because the best builds are also the easiest to play. Which leads to a game which gets no competition. Why do you think every top player quit the game? Look at dhuumfire and just before. All of a sudden “pro” thieves/warriors/necros/guardians/engis emerged out of no where. I wonder why. Because it all became about spam and not about skill. So skilled players gave up because it is boring spending 1k hours on a class and then you fight ANY warrior and they are all a challenge.

Mesmer is like necro. Braindead to play. But not quite as good as warrior/thief which are also braindead to play.

The whole game is based around spam and skill-less things. What other game ever would have a build (hambow) which is the most powerful and involves instant cast immobalises followed up by tiny cast time stun locks with massive damage IN THE SAME SKILL and on the same weapon set as does the stun locking? That is absurd. What game has things like warrior LB fire field which covers the whole point? Where is the counter play to that.

So really balance doesn’t matter. Balance only matters in competitive games. This is not a competitive game at all. There is no way to distinguish yourself because it is all based on spam. Sure some teams might run the same comp and win vs another team. But this really doesn’t prove anything currently because the game is just a joke. You can’t have a skill based game when the components (most powerful builds) are famously spammy and skill-less.

This game is a joke and so discussing balance should be secondary to just nerfing everything so that missing/dodging/using skills matters (i.e. skill).

Look at necro. Totally demotivated to try in this game for 6 months + now because of it. There is no punishment for wasting skills. Condi removal is so common all you can do is spam all your skills onto someone over and over. Used to be at least good necros could prove their skill by condi spiking someone in between the condi cleanses.

No way this game is going anywhere. If you want to prove your good at a game then don’t play GW2. Its a casual game which isnt even fun for casuals.

Is it weird that I dont think any single class is overpowered?

Thief for exmaple. I met some really good theives that pwned me (er downed me like a chump) every time I met them, and some I thought were pretty easy to down. Those same names were reversed when I swapped classes.

I think possible what is OP is certain combinations of classes in the hands of average or better players.

Iplaytokill.1674:

Mythoryk.7984:

Iplaytokill.1674:

Sensotix.4106:

style.6173:

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

No one will take your comments seriously if they are this broad. You need to be more specific.

1v1: Mesmer is currently the best class for this. I don’t see that changing with the patch. At EQUAL skill levels, the mesmer will win.

Team Fights: Pretty useless. They are good for some burst (depending on their spec), but after the next patch, I’d much rather have an ele handle the AOE burst.

mesmer is probably the only class that cant duel any of the current meta classes on a point (which is the goal in conquest mode)

But people consider Mesmer’s 1v1 abilities as some sort of trade off for sucking at everything else.

Because portalling is ineffective in tPvP, amiright? Because Moa isn’t 100% the most clutch skill in the PvP game, amiright? Because Mes GS isn’t the highest/longest range damage in the game, amiright? (ledge supporting portal returning to home is bad, I guess.)

If you roll a mes, and use MI and play your mes like you’re a thief… yea they suck at everything. If you utilize the profession’s mechanics appropriately, and utilize their current support capabilities (which will only get better with the patch on the 15th) they’re pretty substantial when it comes to team play.

Moa? I lost it there. If you’re using Moa to make a point I don’t even know what to say. Most Mesmers will take Mass Invis over Moa and that was before TW got nerfed.

Explain to me how MI beneficially impacts a team effort in Conquest game play? You use it to res? Cool use of an elite skill. You use to to break off the point and regroup to tactically as to reset your 3/5 group’s approach to a mid fight? Interesting that in that time, the enemy has neutralized the point and are half way to capturing it. (A few CCs and it’s done.) Wait… wait.. let me guess… you use it on recharge when the point is 1 tick away from neutralization in a team fight to “get away from a scary HamBow?” – The most common use I observe.

In a bunker driven meta, Moa is one of the strongest, most clutch skills in the game. If you honestly don’t understand that, I feel sorry for you. Bare in mind is eats home-point MM “bunkers” and decap-engis for breakfast.

Sensotix.4106:

Mythoryk.7984:

Sensotix.4106:

Mythoryk.7984:

Sensotix.4106:

style.6173:

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

No one will take your comments seriously if they are this broad. You need to be more specific.

1v1: Mesmer is currently the best class for this. I don’t see that changing with the patch. At EQUAL skill levels, the mesmer will win.

Team Fights: Pretty useless. They are good for some burst (depending on their spec), but after the next patch, I’d much rather have an ele handle the AOE burst.

mesmer is probably the only class that cant duel any of the current meta classes on a point (which is the goal in conquest mode)

You must be bad at mesmer, then.

i politely ask you to never visit my forums posts again since you obviously have no understanding of the current meta and or know who the good players atm are
maybe you are from na and thats fine..its a different meta there but you obviously have never stepped a foot into the top 100 pvp competetive scene in eu

But all you do is SoloQ. O.o Mesmer playability is much different when you’re part of a TEAM. When you’re in soloQ, you’re probably right… Mesmer seems ponceish and pilloky… It’s a different monster in a team paradigm.

all i do is solo q? wth
I only solo q for fun
better check the team q leaderboards and watch the weekly esl cup..you see me there
please go to the leaderboards and check how many tourny games i have in team q you will see that i am among the 10 players with the most tournament matches played ingame

I stand corrected. You’re on NA tPvP LBs and EU SoloQ LBs on gw2score.com. That was the cause of the confusion.

IMO they should just make clone on dodge a default class mechanic that can be toggled on and off or at least lower the tier in which you can get Deceptive Evasion. The vigor nerf will hit all mesmer builds and in the current meta, it really feels that everything a mesmer can do, a thief can do better. Instead of nerfing thieves, etc. (although that would be nice too), perhaps some buffs should be done to the mesmer to balance out this vigor nerf.

Also if you are afraid of the new Power Block trait that is coming out in the patch, don’t be. There are a lot of important defensive traits that need to be sacrificed in order to get Power Block.

@Trigr
Please explain how you get good sustain without losing essential damage/utility in a shatter build. Which is the only competitively viable build in tpvp btw.

@Bearlin
I don’t think changing our illusion generation alone is going to be enough to make mesmers a bigger threat than they are in tpvp.

Raunchy.6891:

@Trigr
Please explain how you get good sustain without losing essential damage/utility in a shatter build. Which is the only competitively viable build in tpvp btw.

@Bearlin
I don’t think changing our illusion generation alone is going to be enough to make mesmers a bigger threat than they are in tpvp.

Sorry to break it to you, but shatter is not the only viable spec.

Countless

Bearlin.7238:

IMO they should just make clone on dodge a default class mechanic that can be toggled on and off or at least lower the tier in which you can get Deceptive Evasion. The vigor nerf will hit all mesmer builds and in the current meta, it really feels that everything a mesmer can do, a thief can do better. Instead of nerfing thieves, etc. (although that would be nice too), perhaps some buffs should be done to the mesmer to balance out this vigor nerf.

Also if you are afraid of the new Power Block trait that is coming out in the patch, don’t be. There are a lot of important defensive traits that need to be sacrificed in order to get Power Block.

agree that de should be moved somewhere else and i think ip should be lowered too as our sahtters dont work well in big groupfights. in tpvp our clones already suffer badly, in wvw its a nightmare as u dont have shatters that will work. i dont know about powerblock yet. it could work well in some situatuions, but then again lets hope the terrible gm traits and bugfixes is not the only thing we get.
we need group support

selan.8354:

we need group support

Mesmers are getting viable group support as of the April 15th patch. Scroll up and read my post(s) about the mantra support concept. It may flop, but it almost works as it is (since the changes to mantras of concentration and resolve). The update will only provide more viability to it. We’ll see come the patch.

Interesting idea whoever suggested DE be moved. It could definitely be a minor master trait somewhere.

Also:

Raunchy.6891:

Raunchy.6891:

@Trigr
Please explain how you get good sustain without losing essential damage/utility in a shatter build. Which is the only competitively viable build in tpvp btw.

Sorry to break it to you, but shatter is not the only viable spec.

Countless

^^ This. There are several viable mesmer specs for tPvP.

Mythoryk.7984:

^^ This. There are several viable mesmer specs for tPvP.

Pistol Whip
Sword/Dagger
Spirit Ranger
Hambow
Decap

^^ These don’t count as Mesmer specs, BTW.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Mythoryk.7984:

^^ This. There are several viable mesmer specs for tPvP.

Pistol Whip
Sword/Dagger
Spirit Ranger
Hambow
Decap

^^ These don’t count as Mesmer specs, BTW.

you forgot that na is like solo q – you can play anything

Sensotix.4106:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Mythoryk.7984:

^^ This. There are several viable mesmer specs for tPvP.

Pistol Whip
Sword/Dagger
Spirit Ranger
Hambow
Decap

^^ These don’t count as Mesmer specs, BTW.

you forgot that na is like solo q – you can play anything

Signs of desperation in a argument, puffing your chest with a pretend claim that one region is better than another region. When that specific topic is irrelevant to the matter at hand.

Countless

Trigr.6481:

Sensotix.4106:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Mythoryk.7984:

^^ This. There are several viable mesmer specs for tPvP.

Pistol Whip
Sword/Dagger
Spirit Ranger
Hambow
Decap

^^ These don’t count as Mesmer specs, BTW.

you forgot that na is like solo q – you can play anything

Signs of desperation in a argument, puffing your chest with a pretend claim that one region is better than another region. When that specific topic is irrelevant to the matter at hand.

Countless

i saw your build and if you want you can transfer to europe and play vs any good team..you will get farmed

Trigr.6481:

Raunchy.6891:

@Trigr
Please explain how you get good sustain without losing essential damage/utility in a shatter build. Which is the only competitively viable build in tpvp btw.

@Bearlin
I don’t think changing our illusion generation alone is going to be enough to make mesmers a bigger threat than they are in tpvp.

Sorry to break it to you, but shatter is not the only viable spec.

Countless

Because your triple signet phantasm build really did a number on my warrior right? Oh wait you didn’t kill me once, and I have no idea how to even play warrior lol.

style.6173:

Mesmers are similar to thieves in this regard. They are much better at attacking points than defending them. They don’t fight on the point since a bunker would have the advantage there. They jump in and out of the point as needed and generally fight around the point. A mesmer should would those fights against the bunker 1v1 virtually always.

Except a thief can move there 10x faster then a mesmer can unless he uses portal which is once every a minute. Thiefs bring more “burst”/cleave damage also.

Trigr.6481:

Sensotix.4106:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Mythoryk.7984:

^^ This. There are several viable mesmer specs for tPvP.

Pistol Whip
Sword/Dagger
Spirit Ranger
Hambow
Decap

^^ These don’t count as Mesmer specs, BTW.

you forgot that na is like solo q – you can play anything

Signs of desperation in a argument, puffing your chest with a pretend claim that one region is better than another region. When that specific topic is irrelevant to the matter at hand.

Countless

I’m sorry Countless, i respect you as a player but quite honestly. EU meta is far beyond NA meta, i played both competitively before. Sensotix is talking about top competitive play scenarios… not saying that he or we do not respect NA opinions or casuals opinion, but I believe the discussion is about high end competitive scenario which stuff as “mesmer best 1v1 class” is simply… wrong.

Team Trolling For Life participated in NA tournaments before and despite fighting at 5am against NA teams they still won the tournament if I remember correctly.

Same for 55HP Monks not so long ago. Same for TP, same for nearly every single EU team who went to play competitively against NA teams.

I agree Shatter needs some love compared to thief if we’re gonna be comparing glass cannons.

But IMO I feel the rest of the mesmer crew are in a good spot.

The problem I mostly have with thieves is envy. Killing them and dealing with them isn’t so bad, in fact you can kill almost anything with shatter with proper positioning and timing… (except for maybe BM rangers with their tankyness, and evade spam, and pew pew, makes me QQ.)

But having burst that is easily avoided that requires a lot of set up and that requires a majority of your cooldowns to reach max damage doesn’t seem fair when you think of a class with evade spam and instant damage for little risk during setup.

BUT WE HAVE ILLUSIONS! <- For one they don’t fool anybody they don’t actually add to our survivability except against new players who actually get lost in them. But really all illusions are, are a resource that determines our power strength… a Resource we actually get punished for using at the wrong time. <- Which to be fair.. Is pretty fair! In fact I like that about this game/build/class. But other classes don’t have that risk vs reward and I think that’s where Sensotix’s call for nerfs comes from.

If we think of Guardian and Mesmer as the two most balanced classes in terms of risk/reward/damage and all of the variations in which you achieve this and can play around with this. (except for Filthy phant players lolol) Either the rest of the game needs to come down to that level, or if the game refuses to do such a thing these builds need to be buffed to meet the other apex’s

But hell if we’re gonna compare thief and glass mes I got a Suggestion.

Resource based instead of C/D Based Shatters. Reduce all the shatter cooldowns by half. This still keeps the risk/reward play, however turns the clones into more of a resource and makes the build less c/d based. The evade is still less than thief spam but gives more access to distortion in a pinch. Allows for re setup via diversion for max damage, and lets confusion be a bit more viable with the ability to apply it in bursts as intended.