Guild Wars 2

I was watching one of Helseth’s last streams and as I watched him, probably the best player in the game, regularly lose to kittens, I decided I would take a look into Mesmer. I’ve played Mesmer for a while now and feel that I have strong Mesmer mechanics, yet I’ve never been able to climb on Mesmer. Why is that?

It’s because Mesmer lacks the tools to carry high level games.

Staff condition mesmer has fairly low end damage in general compared to thief and rev, who it competes with, has good mobility but less than thief, is slightly better at teamfights, but when facing an Engi or Ranger, it has low cleave, and Mesmer has ABSOLUTELY NO KILL PRESSURE on people who are running away.

Compared to an ideally played Necro, a Mesmer offers very little other than 1v1 potential and moa, and mesmer still struggles to 1v1 dh and engi, and stalemates ele and ranger most of the time. Mesmer is essentially just a continuum split moa bot and a portal placer.

Buffing Condi Mesmer however, could push it over the edge in terms of strength, so the best solution, and one that I think many would agree with, is to significantly buff POWER SHATTER MESMER, making it able to compete with Rev and Thief as a roamer while offering greater utility, but less damage. We need to return to the good old 2014 shatter meta where mesmer actually did damage and could carry games in the way that a thief could, rather than push far, leave portal, run mid, moa, go far, only to have your team wipe.

Potato.2567:

I’ve never been able to climb on Mesmer. Why is that?

It’s because Mesmer lacks the tools to carry high level games.

Compared to an ideally played Necro, a Mesmer offers very little other than 1v1 potential and moa, and mesmer still struggles to 1v1 dh and engi, and stalemates ele and ranger most of the time. Mesmer is essentially just a continuum split moa bot and a portal placer.

We need to return to the good old 2014 shatter meta where mesmer actually did damage and could carry games in the way that a thief could, rather than push far, leave portal, run mid, moa, go far, only to have your team wipe.

You already named the tools that allow Mesmer to carry high-level games: top-notch 1v1 potential via F5 and moa. That is mesmer’s niche. On top of that there is portal, which allows team plays in a way that rev/thief’s mobility does not. Those are the reasons to take mesmer, they are compelling reasons. I don’t disagree that power mes could use a slight buff but condi mesmer is fine. Helseth was one of the top players in S5 so clearly your inability to climb is due to your lack of skill at Mesmer. Watch more Helseth, find a good duo, duel more, and you will climb.

Really the only problems with power shatter is that the sustain and defense of all classes shot through the roof with HoT. If it weren’t for that, power shatter would still be amazing.

Other than that the only real “problem” with mesmer is that you have to be a really good mesmer to make a difference in the match, and most people who play mesmer in PvP aren’t…… So collectively, they all make it look like mesmer needs to be buffed.

If you ever watched Helseths streams, especially the 1v1s he used as practise or time filling while waiting to queue pop you’d see a slightly disturbing realisation. To get a kill he pretty much had to do an excellent continuum split moa burst, usually using portal to allow him to get back to where he ended the split to keep the pressure up. If it failed, which wasn’t uncommon then he pretty much couldn’t do too much until he had continuum split again.

Put simply mesmer atm is carried by moa, if elites weren’t reset by CS you’d see the power of mesmer drop very significantly. As much as I love the uniqueness of moa and how funny it can be across the game (srsly moa the wargs in the raid wing 3 escort, it’s hilarious) part of me thinks the game and class would be better off without the skill.

It props up the profession with portal to such an extreme that the only way a mesmer would not be viable with them is if there was an apex predator that would literally jump and kill them before they even got to a node. That isn’t a good balance state at all.

I’m aware of how much work he puts in to get the kill as a mesmer, and it doesn’t change my opinion about mesmer being mostly in a good spot. I think it just highlights how ridiculously overpowered every elite spec is at the moment, how ridiculous the passive defenses are and everything else. I’d much rather see everything be toned down than to see mesmer just get buffed, and contribute to never-ending power creep.

OriOri.8724:

I’m aware of how much work he puts in to get the kill as a mesmer, and it doesn’t change my opinion about mesmer being mostly in a good spot. I think it just highlights how ridiculously overpowered every elite spec is at the moment, how ridiculous the passive defenses are and everything else. I’d much rather see everything be toned down than to see mesmer just get buffed, and contribute to never-ending power creep.

I’m not advocating buffing mesmer I’m just pointing out that without the elite skill moa that mesmer would be a lot worse off and I’m not sure how much nerfing of elite specs would really correct that issue. That’s without mentioning how much I detest this clone/phantasm shatter spam playstyle compared to the timing burst of power.

Like I say, as much as I like moa I feel maybe the game and class would be healthier without having to balance around it.

Portal and moa’s can be game changers. It has good cc, good mobility, and a good balance in damage and survivability. Number 1 on EU leaderboard is mesmer. Honestly, I feel like u are exaggerating.

Eh, it wouldn’t be so bad if CS didn’t affect our elites, and Moa had a reasonable CD in my opinion. But that would also require balancing all of our core elite skills at the same time, so its not likely to happen unfortunately.

Compared to an ideally played necro? Sometimes it feels like you are talking out of your behind just a little bit. Helseth has zero problems killing just about anyone as well. Mesmer is one of the strongest classes when played well.

apharma.3741:

If you ever watched Helseths streams, especially the 1v1s he used as practise or time filling while waiting to queue pop you’d see a slightly disturbing realisation. To get a kill he pretty much had to do an excellent continuum split moa burst, usually using portal to allow him to get back to where he ended the split to keep the pressure up. If it failed, which wasn’t uncommon then he pretty much couldn’t do too much until he had continuum split again.

Put simply mesmer atm is carried by moa, if elites weren’t reset by CS you’d see the power of mesmer drop very significantly. As much as I love the uniqueness of moa and how funny it can be across the game (srsly moa the wargs in the raid wing 3 escort, it’s hilarious) part of me thinks the game and class would be better off without the skill.

It props up the profession with portal to such an extreme that the only way a mesmer would not be viable with them is if there was an apex predator that would literally jump and kill them before they even got to a node. That isn’t a good balance state at all.

Practically every class/build is “propped up” by 1-2 key skills, Rev being the exception because it’s not being propped up, it already fell down. Where would thief be without Basi, the unblockable shareable CC on a low CD? Constantly running away from every fight. Where would DH be without ToF and a reset on its virtues? Dead in less than 30 seconds. I’m not saying your argument is illegitimate, it’s just applicable to almost every meta build. Some skills, especially elites, contribute more to the success of the build that others. That’s not unique to mesmer, only a few builds can have the elite changed out and still be fine (Engi’s sneak gyro being an example). And yeah Continuum Split is OP as has been pointed out many times before, that’s the real power creep here, not moa or portal. Honestly CS “props up” Chronomancer more than anything else.

Mesmer is good vs inexperienced people who don’t know how or what to dodge.
Those people don’t dodge or blind your shield 4 phantasms meaning you can do good damage to them & kill them rather easily.

However i can imagine that highly experienced players will be able to counter that easily, leaving mesmer with low damage & only really being there for the moa & portal utility and +1ing.

I remember when mesmer used to be really good for 1v1’s. Nowadays its tough vs a lot of classes.

Huskyboy.1053:

apharma.3741:

If you ever watched Helseths streams, especially the 1v1s he used as practise or time filling while waiting to queue pop you’d see a slightly disturbing realisation. To get a kill he pretty much had to do an excellent continuum split moa burst, usually using portal to allow him to get back to where he ended the split to keep the pressure up. If it failed, which wasn’t uncommon then he pretty much couldn’t do too much until he had continuum split again.

Put simply mesmer atm is carried by moa, if elites weren’t reset by CS you’d see the power of mesmer drop very significantly. As much as I love the uniqueness of moa and how funny it can be across the game (srsly moa the wargs in the raid wing 3 escort, it’s hilarious) part of me thinks the game and class would be better off without the skill.

It props up the profession with portal to such an extreme that the only way a mesmer would not be viable with them is if there was an apex predator that would literally jump and kill them before they even got to a node. That isn’t a good balance state at all.

Practically every class/build is “propped up” by 1-2 key skills, Rev being the exception because it’s not being propped up, it already fell down. Where would thief be without Basi, the unblockable shareable CC on a low CD? Constantly running away from every fight. Where would DH be without ToF and a reset on its virtues? Dead in less than 30 seconds. I’m not saying your argument is illegitimate, it’s just applicable to almost every meta build. Some skills, especially elites, contribute more to the success of the build that others. That’s not unique to mesmer, only a few builds can have the elite changed out and still be fine (Engi’s sneak gyro being an example). And yeah Continuum Split is OP as has been pointed out many times before, that’s the real power creep here, not moa or portal. Honestly CS “props up” Chronomancer more than anything else.

Pretty good points

ehh what you expect to hear from a potato

people are also forgetting helseth is extremely rust as he hasnt played gw2 at all in a fair bit. saying “a rust helseth is doing horrible mesmer needs buff pls” is ridiculous.

What sophiewhite said. None of the pros take this game seriously anymore.

mesmer is still easy mode with condi shatter. Meanwhile I lost 15 games in a row as Thief, my main profession

Shadow.1345:

What sophiewhite said. None of the pros take this game seriously anymore.

sophie didnt say that but i guess anyone sees what they want to see.

Mesmer is weak because it can’t carry a team of 5(which it can,and it shouldn’t,no class or build should in a well balanced game,but whatever).
Enter the logic of GW2 PvP players and the death of class balance.

I don’t know if the op is trolling.
A shatter Mesmer can already pretty much 100-0 you in a single burst,what more “kill pressure” could you give it?
Add in all the mobility and utility it carries,including the dreaded Moa,which in this heavy condition damage meta is an iWin button,since losing access to your cleanses even for a few seconds equals death in team fights as well as in 1v1s.
The power shatter variant is “normal” considering all the cluster kitten over the top op builds that go around,the condition damage variant is faceroll easy mode.

Are you kidding me?

Mesmer already have lots of ways to negate damage, they do not need anymore buffs, especially to be killing when its already possible to do 1 hko combos. If anything they need to be toned down.

It’s already been established that Mesmer has to do a lot more work to get a kill.
I would argue compared to every other meta build spends more restrictive resources, has a longer cooldown time between being useful, and has more telegraphed burst too, but whatever.

So why is it fair to make it struggle to compete for similar slots, with a ton of direct counters or stalemates? Because of portal and CS+Moa? Two long cooldowns, really? I dunno doesn’t seem balanced to me.

Not to say Mes should out class the others in it’s slot but it shouldn’t have to put in that much effort to kill, or give such a large window for a comeback.

If the problem is HoT, well to bad that’s the status quo we have to balance by now. Or we can just strait up remove it. Both options suck, but classes shouldn’t get shafted for it.

It is due to portal and moa(with F5). These two skills are so strong that mesmer has to sacrifice a lot of its other personal power to balance out.

The end result is that you are heavily reliant on good usage of portal and moa to win games. Your teammates also have to some basic understanding of portal and moa(which is not true in a lot of the games).

This makes mesmer quite situational in solo queue play and can be really frustrating at times.

Exciton.8942:

It is due to portal and moa(with F5). These two skills are so strong that mesmer has to sacrifice a lot of its other personal power to balance out.

The end result is that you are heavily reliant on good usage of portal and moa to win games. Your teammates also have to some basic understanding of portal and moa(which is not true in a lot of the games).

This makes mesmer quite situational in solo queue play and can be really frustrating at times.

This is a pretty good analysis. You cannot make your teammates use your portals, and it is difficult to coordinate the usage in solo queue.

Mesmer is not underpowered

Condi Mesmer/chrono with Inspiration is great. Condi Mesmer/chrono without inspiration is a free kill. It’s pretty dull being so binary.

Power Mesmer/chrono is basically either wombo combo before anyone can do anything or utterly irrelevant and a free kill. With so many auto traits and HoT skills with built in sustain the wombo combo is only effective against new players that aren’t pressing their skills fast enough to avoid a wombo combo serendipitously.

EU Leaderboards Rank 1 is Mesmer
just saying…

Mesmer is not the best solo queue class though
You need your team to make use of your Moas + Portals!

If your team doesnt do that because you cannot tell them on TS or they just lack the awareness for what their mesmer does then you wont be as useful as you should as mesmer

I am not the best mesmer on the game but i find mesmer meta quite effective in 1 vs 1 and i feel mesmer not weak at all. Mesmer is not my main but when there is no thief or mesmer in team i find usefull to take it becouse in a class you have good mobility , good survivability and 1vs 1 ….

Mesmer isn’t underpowered. It’s risky, yeah and probably not suited for ‘fairly new players’. But it’s nowhere near underpowered.

#mainingmesmerfor2years

I’m with the side that Mesmer is not terribly underpowered, and an out-of-touch soloer not being able to carry a bad match doesn’t prove anything. How many eles, engis, revenants, necros or druids do you see solo carrying bad matches?

Not to mention that the top two in EU are a duo thief/mes. :P

By the logic of some people here number 1 spot in NA is a thief and 2 EU is thief losing out to spot 1 by only a couple of rating but having same W:L rate.

What does this say about thief? Broken OP? Maybe it’s just that these players are much better than everyone else. If we had a breakdown of top 100 by classes played we might have something better than the narrow viewpoint given.

Play mesmer for a month, then play another profession (thief and warrior excluded) and see that although mesmer needs more buttons to push, It has a great escape mechanism, and a beautiful burst option.

Mesmer is fine. It’s up there with all other annoying things you encounter. Being annoying is good. Being annoying is fun. I like fun.

Let’s have fun.

That was fun.