Guild Wars 2

The mesmer has a well of invulnerability, the 2 of sword, 4 of shield, the well is launch twice, and all of this on a point without being decap.

Even the obsi flesh of elementalist, wich is only 4 sec of invu, make the point decap.

I will stay on only 1 question, because all my feelings about anet and every thing else I want to say to them will make me be banned, so I keep my mouth shut but you will not shut up my mind. Here is my question :

why?

2 of sword has been recognied as a blur and it doesn’t prevent cap
should it be considered as a distortion > invuln… well I wouldn’t be against it…

4 of shield is a block… it is not invulnerability it’s a block… do you want me to repeat it?
A block, not invulnerability

WoP is also a blur, which also means it doesn’t prevent cap, but it is vastly recognized, even in the mesmer community, that it would be more fair to actually make it a distortion or an invuln

F5 is a distortion it prevents point cap

CS is the only skill allowing other skills to be spawned twice (I.E the well) and it also prevent capping

as to your question: Because Anet…
beside you can just wait two months, Anet will surely nerf Mesmer down the kittenter again

F5 is a distortin right, but when you have 1sec of F5 just to pu 2 WoP one after an other, it’s 12sec of “blur” … I see invul here.
Ok other skills aren’t invulnerability, just put all of this one after another, and you have 12sec of invulnerability, and several seconds of strong resistance.

Yes, only 2 month to wait, after all, HoT was a strong balancing …

and after that 12 second they have what?
a 90 second CD from CS
a 50 second CD from distortion
a 45 cd from WoP
a 30 second CD from shield 4
a 12 second CD from BF
I’ll also tell you one nice thing about the evade… it can be interrupted… Blurred frenzy can be interrupted and it is susceptibles to CC traps
If your mesmer uses all of his blocks one after the other don’t get in his way, let him have the fun

Beside, it has also been recognized that you do not take a Bunker mesmer on a 1v1, it as also been recognized that WoP as it stands is a problem because it gives evade to 5 person while keeping point.
Yes it SHOULD be an invuln, pity we can’t do anything and Anet did say that they wouldn’t do another patch before the next season.

As for resistance? Where the hell does your mesmer takes his resistance from? None of the aforementionned skills gives it… The only way is through traited glamour build (we’d need to give up a boonshare GM for that one and swap WoG for TW or another utility for Portal (lol at this one) or Null Field (I personally use it instead of a well, but I much prefer the boon sharing ability that gives me TONS of support rather than having 3s resistance on a 32 CD over a skill that cure conditions already. As for TW, it has already been discussed and I really don’t think that a 3s resistance on a 90s CD is worth it, especially compared to the CC offered by WoG

I’m really not against people discussing (or complaining respectfully) about certain class/traits/etc. But bloody know the class you’re speaking against…

Pepsi.8907:

and after that 12 second they have what?
a 90 second CD from CS
a 50 second CD from distortion
a 45 cd from WoP
a 30 second CD from shield 4
a 12 second CD from BF

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alacrity

Find yourself, what they have while properly rolling CDs under Alacrity.

I know what they have, thank you…
Current point is, they will still have most of their important skills under CD (namely CS, distortion and WoP) they might even be on staff at that time, reducing greatly their defensive capabilities.
Yes Alacrity uptime is a problem, I never said mesmer was fine
WoP needs to be reworked so that it prevents cap
and IMO Alacrity needs to be a boon that can be ripped or corrupted, just like quickness became a boon…
MOREOVER my point being that the OP wrongfully named skills as invulnerability which they are not,
as I said, again, I have nothing against creating topics about skills that should be tweaked down, I have a problem with people that doesn’t know the class they are whining against, which gives access to a bunch of wrongfully claimed OP traits and skills
Might we remember DH traps and burn that fluttered not too long ago? Or that longbow ranger?
I do remember when people whined about Lich so much that it got nerfed into the ground and became practically useless…. that is something I’d like to avoid on a class that I do like and main.
I am not against needed nerf and tweak, I am against waving the bat nerf as if you were trying to hit a homerun because their own inability to comprehend a class and lazyness preventing them to learn it like they should makes them screams to the god that it is OP and should be nerfed.

I just pointed that classic CDs given by skill descriptions, aren’t true for Chrono.

@pepsi

There is nothing to learn about chrono. Shield block is stupid. Prot uptime is stupid. Cc is stupid. Good luck trying to predict openings for a burst when they have alacrity changing CDs and CS plays.

“and after that 12 second they have what? "
after 12 sec of full safe while sleeping on the point + strong resistance with low skillplay, they have a teammate comming to help them.
Yes, they can hold a 1v2 for about an eternity, and a 1v5 if needed for 20 sec , that means that if you whole team is beeing whiped out, you can hold your clse against the full ennemmy team while your own team rez, and this without any skillplay.

@Morwath:
Ah! you’re right, and I also didn’t put in if one had the shattered traited so that the CD was reduced, my mistake :x

@Mcrocha
There is something to learn about every kitten class and builds in this game, whether it,s braindead or not…
Alacrity uptime and protection uptime is stupid. Shield block is not and I fail to see what actually is stupid in it…
beside it is not a build where you try to predict for a burst. It’s a bunker, it is not vulnerable to power burst period. You should not engage a chronobunker in a 1v1 on a point he own period.
You should not engage a chronobunker that sits on a point period.
It can handle 1v1, 1v2 and even 1v3 if the skills are rolled out properly, it is vulnerable to condis (given that he didn’t swapped one of the wells for NField), it is vulnerable to boon strip and corruption…

I kittened and screamed a right fit when I saw the burn power creep (you can even go see my history of posts for that)
Still, I rolled a guardian, built it around burning, and learned every single kitten thing I could about it…
It may be stupid, it doesn’t mean there isn’t anything to learn about it…

Static.2853:

“and after that 12 second they have what? "
after 12 sec of full safe while sleeping on the point + strong resistance with low skillplay, they have a teammate comming to help them.
Yes, they can hold a 1v2 for about an eternity, and a 1v5 if needed for 20 sec , that means that if you whole team is beeing whiped out, you can hold your clse against the full ennemmy team while your own team rez, and this without any skillplay.

They don’t have resistance, didn’t I make this clear enough? Not if they run with the full alacrity build…
They can indeed hold a 1v2 for an eternity, certainly not a 1v5, not even for 20 sec.
They can die to a 1v2 especially against condis. and because of the distortion/invulnerability needed to survive those encounters they WILL end up losing the cap…
Look, I understand the build is stupid, I understand it’s braindead and needs toning down, but do bother learning about the class itself before whining about it… Beside, they also won,t kill anything. If you decide to fight against a mesmer that’s sitting on a point being virtually useless to its team, I don’t think the mesmer is the problem…

If he’s on ONE point, there is two others that can be capped and you’ll be outnumbering the other team anyway and guess the pretty thing? You only need two caps to win a game.

Mesmers have two separate effects that for some reason have the same icon: distortion and blur.

• Distortion is a form of invulnerability despite what the lying description says. But at least it properly prevents capture.
• Blur is an evade effect, but since there’s nothing ‘unevadible’ in PvP like some dungeon traps and boss attacks in PvE, it’s essentially another invulnerability.

You gain distortion with F3 and a trait, and Blur with Blurred frenzy and a well. While the blurred frenzy is ok as it locks you in place, the well lets you move around, and so it should give Distortion, not Blur.

They should also have completely different and distinct icons. Every single effect in the game should have its own distinct icon. Look at the Cultist in fractals, that uses a Protection icon for a freaking reflect.

The game is lying to you!

“They don’t have resistance, didn’t I make this clear enough? Not if they run with the full alacrity build… "

By strong resistance I mean they resist to most of dammages. I use “resistance” as a word, not as the skill

Static.2853:

“They don’t have resistance, didn’t I make this clear enough? Not if they run with the full alacrity build… "

By strong resistance I mean they resist to most of dammages. I use “resistance” as a word, not as the skill

Then I am sorry, that is not how I understood it at first

Pepsi.8907:

You should not engage a chronobunker in a 1v1 on a point he own period.
You should not engage a chronobunker that sits on a point period.
It can handle 1v1, 1v2 and even 1v3 if the skills are rolled out properly, it is vulnerable to condis (given that he didn’t swapped one of the wells for NField), it is vulnerable to boon strip and corruption…

Are you trying so hard at defending Chronobunker ? Well of Precognition needs a nerf ASAP. I don’t think it need other nerf, only this skill. The block is fine, Blurry Frenzy is fine, Distortion is fine, but the CS + Well is not. Chronobunker is miles better than last Turret bunker engineer, because it has the mobility and disengagement.

Now that Chronobunker is super meta with DS tempest, Auramancer, Cele Druid, DD 2.0 Scrapper and Rev, mix it all together in a team. What you gonna do when you have a game with 1-2 Chronobunker, helped with other bunker/support ? Yeah, you play your game till 0 secs.

Super fun.

You can pull all the numbers you want and say they have weaknesses, opening, etc. You don’t seem to look at the big picture.

Krispera.5087:

Pepsi.8907:

You should not engage a chronobunker in a 1v1 on a point he own period.
You should not engage a chronobunker that sits on a point period.
It can handle 1v1, 1v2 and even 1v3 if the skills are rolled out properly, it is vulnerable to condis (given that he didn’t swapped one of the wells for NField), it is vulnerable to boon strip and corruption…

Are you trying so hard at defending Chronobunker ? Well of Precognition needs a nerf ASAP. Chronobunker is miles better than last Turret bunker engineer, because it has the mobility and disengagement.

Now that Chronobunker is super meta with DS tempest, Auramancer and Rev, mix it all together in a team. What you gonna do when you have a game with 1-2 Chronobunker, helped with other bunker/support ? Yeah, you play your game till 0 secs.

Super fun.

You can pull all the numbers you want and say they have weaknesses, opening, etc. You don’t seem to look at the big picture.

Are you trying so hard at whining against the Chronobunker?
Did you even read my other posts?
Do you want me to put it in caps lock maybe?
I clearly stated that I was FULLY aware of what currently makes chrono too strong and I am TOTALLY agreeable to see a proper tweak of said things…

• WoP SHOULD prevent a point cap, thus it should see the evade being converted to a distortion because it allows five people to have access to a evade while keeping their mobility. The difference with Blurred Frenzy is that it actually locks you in place, which is not the case with WoP
• Mesmer have access to a way too high uptime of Alacrity and should either: see it reduced OR See alacrity becoming a boon that can be ripped/corrupted…

You seem to have crawled so high up the wall that you see one single evidence of someone defending chronobunker and, automatically, they are blind and stupid…

I did say it was a braindead build, did I?
Well it is, I’m not going to deny it much more than that, everyone and their dogs knows it, fact is, for as braindead as it is, it’s ridiculously efficient and it’s actually one of the first DECENT build that made us come back into the meta since many many years. I would like to keep it if possible, or at least not go back into the worthless zone where thief and warriors seems close to hover. but yeah it IS too strong for the amount of risk you need to put in, and does need toning down, not downright smashed to bits and pieces because people can’t be bothered to learn as to what actually, precisely, makes it as strong as it is…
The only thing I am defending is a too heavy nerf against our first build that bring us out of the portal bot role we had…

And what I do against 1-2 chronobunker?
I should try having a team with 2 Cbunker see how it goes, but still…
Condis is the way to go against them…
Bring a signet reaper with corrupt boon,
Bring a condi revenant
Bring a tempest auramancer
Bring anything really with Condis because despite their shatter with condi clear, they don’t have that many way to clear them… Even with NField

Automatically, trying to kill a bunker leads to 2v1…
If the mesmer sits alone on a point, leave it.
If he leaves, send thief/rev to decap
Target him first in team fight… the combination of people that need to bring it down is:
Rev+necro
DH+rev
REV+REV
Dh+dh
Thief + 1 (if only for the pressure)
Boonstrip
Attack at distance
Condi pressure from multiple people
Stop standing in the red circle
Stop attacking into blocks…
STOP ATTACKING INTO BLOCKS

Just go over the mesmer forum, there’s three or so threads that explains how to counter the build
AGAIN, I’ll repeat it just to make sure
WoP needs evade to become invuln
Alacrity uptime needs to be reduced or it needs to become a boon that can be stripped/corrupted
I am NOT defending CBunker the way it is right now, since it is too strong
I AM defending the build that we have for its potential and the fact that it made us meta again

Do you want me to repeat it or do you get the big picture?

Make blocks/invuls/evades prevent capping/holding points… will ease bunker meta a bit.

People will have to think twice before mashing their face on keyboard.

This could easily be fixed by changing the blur on well of precog to distortion which does prevent point capture. Making alacrity a buff you can corrupt/strip seems like a good idea, but first i would wait to see what happens with chronobunker when you change blur to distortion on well of precog. We shouldn’t over nerf.

Kuya.6495:

This could easily be fixed by changing the blur on well of precog to distortion which does prevent point capture. Making alacrity a buff you can corrupt/strip seems like a good idea, but first i would wait to see what happens with chronobunker when you change blur to distortion on well of precog. We shouldn’t over nerf.

Exactly my point, I especially wanted to emphasis that I was aware that Chronobunker had problems that needed to be seen, not that they all needed to be adressed.
WoP not preventing point cap is THE major one initiating the flame however.

The sad part is, I only resort to playing bunker chrono, cause everything else I could do is just useless nowadays. Illusions usually don’t survive longer than 0.5-1 seconds after they spawn, due to AoE everywhere. So good luck doing any reasonable damage with Mesmer outside of 1vs1. Thus what’s left is bunkering. At least I can do SOMETHING that way. Of course I hit like a wet noodle, but that’s almost always the case anyway, due to illusions dying long before they could attack or shatter. I actually find myself whacking opponents with the sword-auto… not for damage of course, but for the boonstrip on the last part of the chain, lol. Of course only if the situation allows for that.

So ya. Either I play bunker, or I play another class. Sadly, that’s how it is nowadays. I really, really, REALLY wish I could play some different build with Mesmer/Chronomancer. But with those ridiculous amounts of AoE-damage flying around, that’s not gonna happen.

When on my tempest, I could decap chronobunker’s node but ensuing match would just stalemate unless one of us gets +1. This meta is boring and not what I expected from the expac.

You could give every other class a 1 shot button to insta-kill any mesmers around and they will still not be happy.

I think the point that pepsi is trying to make is that while chronobunker is overtuned right now, all of this drivel floating around on the forums just makes it harder to discern what they’re actually doing. People who actually have learned to play, have learned the build and class recognize what it’s doing and how to approach it.

People that haven’t learned to play come and whine endlessly on these forums, complaining about mechanics that aren’t even remotely what they’re complaining about, and generally looking like fools.

Pepsi.8907:

I would like to keep it if possible, or at least not go back into the worthless zone where thief and warriors seems close to hover.

I cannot agree more.
The frustration of mesmer before, is that in pretty much all game types, you were a utility bot.

Except for 15 v 15 scrims. Mesmer was decent at that in more ways than just veil, in my opinion.

It’s nice to have builds that are more than just utility in PvE & PvP.

Especially PvP.
If you nerf chronomancer’s abilities into the ground to get rid of Chronobunker, you’ll also kill Chronoshatter.

Not that it matters.

Chronoshatter is dead in this meta. There’s way too many conditions, beefy high damage classes (looks at revenant), etc, for Chronoshatter to do decently.

And traditional shatter mes is buried 6 feet under, with a mud slide placed on top, just for good measure.

And even if our shatter builds were viable.

Is it too much to ask to have a build where I’m doing something other than shatter mes?

Because we’ve been doing that forever.

Bunker, despite being OP, is a breath of fresh air.

Any nerf should be done only to a chrono trait line-wells or alactricity and only sparingly so.
Other traits or wepons or effects were fine before, and some to a point of being usselss or hardly ever used( BD chaos trait)
WoP should be nerfed to decap ,and alactricity cut by 25%(or made a boon, but not bouth) and mesmer is fine

Pepsi.8907:

Kuya.6495:

This could easily be fixed by changing the blur on well of precog to distortion which does prevent point capture. Making alacrity a buff you can corrupt/strip seems like a good idea, but first i would wait to see what happens with chronobunker when you change blur to distortion on well of precog. We shouldn’t over nerf.

Exactly my point, I especially wanted to emphasis that I was aware that Chronobunker had problems that needed to be seen, not that they all needed to be adressed.
WoP not preventing point cap is THE major one initiating the flame however.

The problem here is that WoP applies to others and the chrono will be then hated by his team if he uses the well on a point because everyone will be afffected without wanting it. It is the same philosophy as when they changed Mallyx to not be countered by people in your team.

alacrity should be decrease to 33% for skill recharge. It should be also a boon, to be striped/corrupted….

In Guild Wars 1, we could interrupt Monks with rangers and mesmers, and even an axe warrior, to kill them. Maybe emphasize interrupts more in Guild Wars 2? Reduce stacks of stability, and make resistance negate damage from conditions only and not include fear, taunt and movement speed cc? I think what we are seeing now is people not being used to this kind of team coordination intensive battles. In GW1, monks were really hard to kill by yourselves, and we employed several tactics to kill them. What we are seeing now is the resurgence of a team composed 2 or 3 “monk/ritualist” members plus other members.

Its complete bs in a game filled with compelte bs. Its just complete coincidence all the pro league teams are filled with this and revenants. The devs should be ashamed of themselves. No clue why they just don’t balance the more egregious aspects of HoT while its still early in the season. Much better games like LoL change the meta mid season all the time it’s no excuse you see something egregious the thing to do is to fix it pronto not say la de da can’t do nothing now its mid season! These people are a disgrace and the sad thing is they won’t even come to these boards to explain themselves because they are complete cowards.

HaxTester.9816:

In Guild Wars 1, we could interrupt Monks with rangers and mesmers, and even an axe warrior, to kill them. Maybe emphasize interrupts more in Guild Wars 2? Reduce stacks of stability, and make resistance negate damage from conditions only and not include fear, taunt and movement speed cc? I think what we are seeing now is people not being used to this kind of team coordination intensive battles. In GW1, monks were really hard to kill by yourselves, and we employed several tactics to kill them. What we are seeing now is the resurgence of a team composed 2 or 3 “monk/ritualist” members plus other members.

…but GW1 wasn’t about afking on points.