Guild Wars 2

sorrow.2364:

Are you aware that the shatter combo implies an immobilize which prevents dodging?
Are you aware that Moa in serious PvP situations isn’t used when mesmer is at low hp?

Stun-lock warrior is way less Dangerous. Once you manage to stunbreak one time, you only have to kite the warrior.

Stunlock warrior can AOE stun every 7s.
And you are aware that the skill preempting the immobilize for the shatter is the worst pathed and one of the most easily dodged skills in the game? Not to mention all of mesmers burst is negatable through a simple application of protection a stun break going into death shroud blocking or a well timed dodge?

jportell.2197:

Not trying to defend it and I have been moa’d several times on my engi and just laughed while I fought back because I knew that mesmer wasn’t going to get me down in that time. Moa will only kill someone in 10s if they are pure glass in which case GG the mesmer waited until the enemies health was low. Or the person that got moad was focused by everyone on the other team.

And lets be real sorrow moaing anyone that is clearly a bunker at full health is idiotic to say the least

Moaing someone and then using the shatter combo against him is more than enough to put the enemy at less than 20-30% hp, even a bunker with 2800 armor. Then it is quite easy to burst down someone at 20-30% HP with no stunbreaker, invlunerability and no chances to heal.

Moaing someone at full health isn’t idiotic at all, especially if you want to get that node as fast as you can, which is the case of far points.
In all other cases, yes, it is more convenient to Moa someone at low HP, but in that specific situation, moaing the home-point bunker will result in most cases in a decap, which can change the match outcome.

jportell.2197:

sorrow.2364:

Are you aware that the shatter combo implies an immobilize which prevents dodging?
Are you aware that Moa in serious PvP situations isn’t used when mesmer is at low hp?

Stun-lock warrior is way less Dangerous. Once you manage to stunbreak one time, you only have to kite the warrior.

Stunlock warrior can AOE stun every 7s.
And you are aware that the skill preempting the immobilize for the shatter is the worst pathed and one of the most easily dodged skills in the game? Not to mention all of mesmers burst is negatable through a simple application of protection a stun break going into death shroud blocking or a well timed dodge?

If you’re talking about Earthshaker, I can only laugh at it. It is probably the most obvious skill in this game.

About the immobilize of the shatter, it isn’t the worst pathed, neither the most obvious. It is just another clone rushing at you, among another huge amount of other clones. It isn’t the easiest skill to dodge at all.

Also, don’t derail the topic. We are talking about bursting down someone while moaed.

Hmmmm then how come I HAVE NEVER DIED AT ALL WHEN MOAD AT FULL HEALTH IN A 1V1 AGAINST A SHATTER MESMER ON ANY OF MY BUNKERS? Your hyperbole about this skill is pathetic to say the least

If your a bunker and you get moa from 100% hp and you cant dodge the shater combo then your a bad bunker
shater combo is soo popular soo many ppl play it i’m surprised tath you complay its so obvious if you cant dodge it then practice more sice they nerf focuse 4 its realy a l2p problem

jportell.2197:

Hmmmm then how come I HAVE NEVER DIED AT ALL WHEN MOAD AT FULL HEALTH IN A 1V1 AGAINST A SHATTER MESMER ON ANY OF MY BUNKERS? Your hyperbole about this skill is pathetic to say the least

No, your claims are pathetic. No proofs, no reasoning. Just pointless claims.

Look at high-end tournaments and look how many times someone is forced to leave the point or gets killed while moaed.

sorrow.2364:

jportell.2197:

Hmmmm then how come I HAVE NEVER DIED AT ALL WHEN MOAD AT FULL HEALTH IN A 1V1 AGAINST A SHATTER MESMER ON ANY OF MY BUNKERS? Your hyperbole about this skill is pathetic to say the least

No, your claims are pathetic. No proofs, no reasoning. Just pointless claims.

Look at high-end tournaments and look how many times someone is forced to leave the point or gets killed while moaed.

Impossible to do because there are no more mesmere in high end tournaments.

jportell.2197:

Impossible to do because there are no more mesmere in high end tournaments.

Yeah, because since launch there is no mesmer in any tournament ever.

What i find funny is that mesmer’s totally dismiss Phantasm’s because they can be killed yet the exact same could be said for a spirit ranger’s spirits.

Conan.8046:

What i find funny is that mesmer’s totally dismiss Phantasm’s because they can be killed yet the exact same could be said for a spirit ranger’s spirits.

AHAHAHAHAHA

first you can have 2 phantasams then you have to w8 for 20 sec and then pop the 3-th you need a target
rangar can haVE 4 SPIRITS you dont need target to sumon them
for sumonning a phantasams you can missed/block dode …… you begin with spirits
phant. have 1 skil you dont control it
spirits have 1 passive and 1 activate and wen they die again another one
you cant compare this two

aleks.5473:

Conan.8046:

What i find funny is that mesmer’s totally dismiss Phantasm’s because they can be killed yet the exact same could be said for a spirit ranger’s spirits.

AHAHAHAHAHA

first you can have 2 phantasams then you have to w8 for 20 sec and then pop the 3-th you need a target
rangar can haVE 4 SPIRITS you dont need target to sumon them
for sumonning a phantasams you can missed/block dode …… you begin with spirits
phant. have 1 skil you dont control it
spirits have 1 passive and 1 activate and wen they die again another one
you cant compare this two

Lol completely wrong. On nearly everything

You can have 3 phantasm up.
You can have 3 spirits up…possibly 4 but you lose all your utilities and elite.
You can have 3 phantasms up very quickly the ranger has to summon his but they last longer.
Phantasm’s are on a 20 to 30 second cooldown. Spirits are a 1 minute cooldown.
Phantasms hit for a truck load of damage by themselves…the mesmer can be invisible at the time. How is that less passive than a spirit ranger?
You can summon phantasms from utilities “Phantasmal Defender” is not a block? Redirects damage to itself…sounds like a block. Note with a utility there is no 20 second wait time…OMG i have to “waste” a utility! so broken…lol tell that to the ranger.

Your saying Phantasm’s aren’t as good…riiiiiight.

sorrow.2364:

prozon.3561:

That’s simply not true.

Pre patch viable classes:

Ele:
bunker/support
DPS

Guard:
Bunker

Messmer:
shatter

Thief:
SD
DP

Ranger:
BM
Trap

Engi:
Nodefighter
HGH

You had 6 classes with in sum 10 viable specs pre patch, what you have now:

Guard:
bunker

Engi:
Node/grenade

Thief:
sd

Ranger:
spirit

Necro:
Terror

War:
maybe

5,5 Classes and only 5/6 viable specs! Thats only the half like pre patch my friend!

Plus, in past the only class makes sense to stack was the elementalist, nowadays you can stack Ranger’s and Necro’s. So the Meta classes decreased even more.

The difference was just pre patch it made no sense to stack classes of getting zero advantage from, there was just no “OP S-Tier” Class left.

Now you’r getting a huge advantage by using 2x ranger or 2xnecro like in past were ele was a long time the S King.

You listed viable spec in the first part and optimal in the second one.

1. Elementalist bunker/support are still viable in the current meta. PAX representations proves I’m right. There is even the insta-spike build now which is optimal in the current meta that you didn’t mentioned.
2. D/P thief is still viable. Nothing has changed. It was once overshadowed by S/D and it still is.
3. BM and Trap are pretty much the same build
4. HGH is still viable

Check your facts and make that list again. Build variety is still the same, pre and post patch.

The only things that has changed is that Mesmers are for the first time since launch out of the god-tier. This is what makes you think that this meta is worse than the others.

Thats simply not true, a 2nd viable spec on a class can’t exist until 1 is just OP.

Bunker ele is viable? Maybe it is at the class itself, but not in the current META. More than 2 Bunkers are bullkitten you lack to much of dps, cause a Bunker ele deals nowadays not rly much dmg compared to a faceroll Ranger with the same and even better bunker abilities atm.

So you can’t replace the Ranger with an Elementalist, 1. Ele lose vs Ranger on node, Ele lose vs Engi on node, Ele lose vs Thief on node, Ele lose vs Nec on node. there is no room to use it instead of a ranger for example for backpoint defend.

But, true, the Ele is a Teamfight based classe with alot of grp support. So if you run the Ele in your teamfight, who will sit or defend your backnode?

You still need the ranger.

You have to replace the thief, engi or necro.

Replacing the thief = nonsense, imense sustain dps by perma dodging stealth support und fast roam class in the game. —> Musthave atm

Necro: More survivabilitie with the new DS and even pleague, plus critical incredible Condi DPS which is nearly All AOE + huge amount of CC. —> absolutly must have nowadays

Engi: Nice team CC support, also AOE healing, AOE stealth, with grenade and bomb kit rly hard Condi DPS, Rez support if used. Only disadvantage very squishy Target.

You see the only class that actually can be changed is the Engi, but think about the amount of DPS you will lack of running a bunker ele instead of an engi. The condis will kitten the ele also automaticly, cause most is AOE spam. And i dont think you are able to deal enough dmg with just a Necro (which is main Focus in this lineup, so normally not able to deal this much dps) and a thief.

D/P Thief once he burstes on necros DS he has to go out spam shortbow and wait until the enemy SD thief catch him into death. GG to Bunker ele…

Conan.8046:

aleks.5473:

Conan.8046:

What i find funny is that mesmer’s totally dismiss Phantasm’s because they can be killed yet the exact same could be said for a spirit ranger’s spirits.

AHAHAHAHAHA

first you can have 2 phantasams then you have to w8 for 20 sec and then pop the 3-th you need a target
rangar can haVE 4 SPIRITS you dont need target to sumon them
for sumonning a phantasams you can missed/block dode …… you begin with spirits
phant. have 1 skil you dont control it
spirits have 1 passive and 1 activate and wen they die again another one
you cant compare this two

Lol completely wrong. On nearly everything

You can have 3 phantasm up.
You can have 3 spirits up…possibly 4 but you lose all your utilities and elite.
You can have 3 phantasms up very quickly the ranger has to summon his but they last longer.
Phantasm’s are on a 20 to 30 second cooldown. Spirits are a 1 minute cooldown.
Phantasms hit for a truck load of damage by themselves…the mesmer can be invisible at the time. How is that less passive than a spirit ranger?
You can summon phantasms from utilities “Phantasmal Defender” is not a block? Redirects damage to itself…sounds like a block. Note with a utility there is no 20 second wait time…OMG i have to “waste” a utility! so broken…lol tell that to the ranger.

Your saying Phantasm’s aren’t as good…riiiiiight.

No decent mesmer ever use phant. defender ( exept bunkers tho thay are reare and the other phantasam will not do the same dem )

you enter the battle with 3 or 4 spirits
the mesmer must sumon them if you dont dodge it i did few games with spirit rangar its soooooo SOOOO easy to paly wen you swich to s/d if you do it properly you have like 6-7 eveds in the healing spring wich will give you back 80 % of your hp i did survive vs 2 ppl for 10 sec with 1k hp them my heal cd ran off and heal myself my back up came and we kill them this happens alot
you will destroy any illusion memser with condy long befor you die from berserker and duelest unles your a total bot and dont dodge it
like i said you dont control phantasams they have 1 attack
you control spirits they have 2 passive 1 active
if they kill your spirits you will sumon them again

Phantasmal Defender was basically destroyed with the nerf to Vengeful Images.

No decent mesmer ever use phant. defender ( exept bunkers tho thay are reare and the other phantasam will not do the same dem )

you enter the battle with 3 or 4 spirits
the mesmer must sumon them if you dont dodge it i did few games with spirit rangar its soooooo SOOOO easy to paly wen you swich to s/d if you do it properly you have like 6-7 eveds in the healing spring wich will give you back 80 % of your hp i did survive vs 2 ppl for 10 sec with 1k hp them my heal cd ran off and heal myself my back up came and we kill them this happens alot
you will destroy any illusion memser with condy long befor you die from berserker and duelest unles your a total bot and dont dodge it
like i said you dont control phantasams they have 1 attack
you control spirits they have 2 passive 1 active
if they kill your spirits you will sumon them again

Is that english?
So it works like this
The ranger dodged and evades everything but the mesmer is a chump and gets caught all the time and owned.
The spirits have a 1 minute cooldown but he summons them right away after you kill them…right…
All his spirits are nice a bunched up for aoe and your phantasms all all over the place but its easier to destroy phantasm’s….right…
Ranger has evades but you know invisiblity, swap and blurred frenzy aren’t forms of avoidance right? Distortion too i suppose.

So basically grass is always greener.

prozon.3561:

Thats simply not true, a 2nd viable spec on a class can’t exist until 1 is just OP.

Bunker ele is viable? Maybe it is at the class itself, but not in the current META. More than 2 Bunkers are bullkitten you lack to much of dps, cause a Bunker ele deals nowadays not rly much dmg compared to a faceroll Ranger with the same and even better bunker abilities atm.

So you can’t replace the Ranger with an Elementalist, 1. Ele lose vs Ranger on node, Ele lose vs Engi on node, Ele lose vs Thief on node, Ele lose vs Nec on node. there is no room to use it instead of a ranger for example for backpoint defend.

But, true, the Ele is a Teamfight based classe with alot of grp support. So if you run the Ele in your teamfight, who will sit or defend your backnode?

You still need the ranger.

You have to replace the thief, engi or necro.

Replacing the thief = nonsense, imense sustain dps by perma dodging stealth support und fast roam class in the game. —> Musthave atm

Necro: More survivabilitie with the new DS and even pleague, plus critical incredible Condi DPS which is nearly All AOE + huge amount of CC. —> absolutly must have nowadays

Engi: Nice team CC support, also AOE healing, AOE stealth, with grenade and bomb kit rly hard Condi DPS, Rez support if used. Only disadvantage very squishy Target.

You see the only class that actually can be changed is the Engi, but think about the amount of DPS you will lack of running a bunker ele instead of an engi. The condis will kitten the ele also automaticly, cause most is AOE spam. And i dont think you are able to deal enough dmg with just a Necro (which is main Focus in this lineup, so normally not able to deal this much dps) and a thief.

D/P Thief once he burstes on necros DS he has to go out spam shortbow and wait until the enemy SD thief catch him into death. GG to Bunker ele…

You’re still making confusion between optimal and viable.

Optimal means that it is the best you can run at the moment due to the meta, even in the hands of a mediocre player.
Viable means that it still performs good and in the hands of a good player can easily outperform an optimal build.

You are making it looks like that right now there are only optimal builds and every other builds are unviable, which isn’t true at all. Now, like in every other meta, there are optimal builds just like viable builds.

For instance, once D/D ele was rampant, it was the optimal build while S/D ele was viable, but not optimal.
Back after the S/D thief buff, S/D became optimal while D/P still was viable and good, but not optimal.
Another example are shatter mesmers and phantasm mesmers. One was optimal, another viable.

Most teams ran optimal builds but, still, you can see sometimes viable builds.

I can keep giving you exaples on how there always was optimal and viable builds then and now. Game variety has Always been the same and this meta changed nothing at all, except shifting for the nth time optimal-viable builds.

The only real difference between last Patches is that now Mesmers have only viable builds, but no optimal builds. This is pretty much the situation in which Necromancers and Warriors have been since launch, so this patch looks worse to you and probably other mesmers or people who are used to see mesmers as a must have in any team, but this is by far not a different patch from the Others.

To be honest, we can also see way more profession variety in the current meta compared to the older ones.

Conan.8046:

No decent mesmer ever use phant. defender ( exept bunkers tho thay are reare and the other phantasam will not do the same dem )

you enter the battle with 3 or 4 spirits
the mesmer must sumon them if you dont dodge it i did few games with spirit rangar its soooooo SOOOO easy to paly wen you swich to s/d if you do it properly you have like 6-7 eveds in the healing spring wich will give you back 80 % of your hp i did survive vs 2 ppl for 10 sec with 1k hp them my heal cd ran off and heal myself my back up came and we kill them this happens alot
you will destroy any illusion memser with condy long befor you die from berserker and duelest unles your a total bot and dont dodge it
like i said you dont control phantasams they have 1 attack
you control spirits they have 2 passive 1 active
if they kill your spirits you will sumon them again

Is that english?
So it works like this
The ranger dodged and evades everything but the mesmer is a chump and gets caught all the time and owned.
The spirits have a 1 minute cooldown but he summons them right away after you kill them…right…
All his spirits are nice a bunched up for aoe and your phantasms all all over the place but its easier to destroy phantasm’s….right…
Ranger has evades but you know invisiblity, swap and blurred frenzy aren’t forms of avoidance right? Distortion too i suppose.

So basically grass is always greener.

I don’t really think you can compare a spirit ranger to a mesmer.
I also think you missed one of his points. He is saying phantasms can only be summoned when entering combat and when you have a target. The spirit ranger can have his spirits up before hand. Sure, spirits might take longer to summon, but you can start the fight at full strength.

Conan.8046:

So basically grass is always greener.

Lol. I defenitly see how the grass on the spirit rangers side of the fence is withering away atm :P

Conan realy did you run out of argumets to coment my english type skils
mesmers have distortion yes for 3 sec evry 60 sec if you have 3 illusion present tho if you use it it meas there are no more phantasams !!!
blured frendsy 2 sec and after its done your a siting mark
my main is mesmer and i dint won any game vs spirit rangas so far ( on compedetive pvp not vs some brain dead ppl ) anyway i tohut i was doing somthing ron so i made a spirit rangar and do you know hwat hapens i win evry singal 1v1 fight i engage and i havent play rangar befor evry one the only problemathink class is necro wen i fight top100-200 ppl and its 50-50 so ye spirit rangar is op it dosont required any skill what so ever. So far i dint lost any 1v1 vs mesmer no matter the spec rank skil or lb rank .
So if you have problems with mesmer on your spirit rangar then i strongly sugest surch the forum i saw sowear a post of a guy giving pvp lesons for 25g a hower

sorrow.2364:

prozon.3561:

Thats simply not true, a 2nd viable spec on a class can’t exist until 1 is just OP.

Bunker ele is viable? Maybe it is at the class itself, but not in the current META. More than 2 Bunkers are bullkitten you lack to much of dps, cause a Bunker ele deals nowadays not rly much dmg compared to a faceroll Ranger with the same and even better bunker abilities atm.

So you can’t replace the Ranger with an Elementalist, 1. Ele lose vs Ranger on node, Ele lose vs Engi on node, Ele lose vs Thief on node, Ele lose vs Nec on node. there is no room to use it instead of a ranger for example for backpoint defend.

But, true, the Ele is a Teamfight based classe with alot of grp support. So if you run the Ele in your teamfight, who will sit or defend your backnode?

You still need the ranger.

You have to replace the thief, engi or necro.

Replacing the thief = nonsense, imense sustain dps by perma dodging stealth support und fast roam class in the game. —> Musthave atm

Necro: More survivabilitie with the new DS and even pleague, plus critical incredible Condi DPS which is nearly All AOE + huge amount of CC. —> absolutly must have nowadays

Engi: Nice team CC support, also AOE healing, AOE stealth, with grenade and bomb kit rly hard Condi DPS, Rez support if used. Only disadvantage very squishy Target.

You see the only class that actually can be changed is the Engi, but think about the amount of DPS you will lack of running a bunker ele instead of an engi. The condis will kitten the ele also automaticly, cause most is AOE spam. And i dont think you are able to deal enough dmg with just a Necro (which is main Focus in this lineup, so normally not able to deal this much dps) and a thief.

D/P Thief once he burstes on necros DS he has to go out spam shortbow and wait until the enemy SD thief catch him into death. GG to Bunker ele…

You’re still making confusion between optimal and viable.

Optimal means that it is the best you can run at the moment due to the meta, even in the hands of a mediocre player.
Viable means that it still performs good and in the hands of a good player can easily outperform an optimal build.

You are making it looks like that right now there are only optimal builds and every other builds are unviable, which isn’t true at all. Now, like in every other meta, there are optimal builds just like viable builds.

For instance, once D/D ele was rampant, it was the optimal build while S/D ele was viable, but not optimal.
Back after the S/D thief buff, S/D became optimal while D/P still was viable and good, but not optimal.
Another example are shatter mesmers and phantasm mesmers. One was optimal, another viable.

Most teams ran optimal builds but, still, you can see sometimes viable builds.

I can keep giving you exaples on how there always was optimal and viable builds then and now. Game variety has Always been the same and this meta changed nothing at all, except shifting for the nth time optimal-viable builds.

The only real difference between last Patches is that now Mesmers have only viable builds, but no optimal builds. This is pretty much the situation in which Necromancers and Warriors have been since launch, so this patch looks worse to you and probably other mesmers or people who are used to see mesmers as a must have in any team, but this is by far not a different patch from the Others.

To be honest, we can also see way more profession variety in the current meta compared to the older ones.

…. you dont get it, in your words, only optimal builds are viable builds in tpvp.a class can be viable by itself but also can not in a team. Gw is 100% team based. And yes i saw your variety the last 3weeks. Ranger ranger ranger necro necro necro necro guard thief.

Simply all signs against your opinion

prozon.3561:

…. you dont get it, in your words, only optimal builds are viable builds in tpvp.a class can be viable by itself but also can not in a team. Gw is 100% team based. And yes i saw your variety the last 3weeks. Ranger ranger ranger necro necro necro necro guard thief.

Simply all signs against your opinion

No. You’ve failed to understand what I’m trying to say again.

“Optimal” is an overperforming build, something that also a complete noob can play with decent results. Optimal is a build that you are forced to play due to meta to have the best results/efforts ratio.
Examples of optimal builds now are terror-condimancers, S/D thieves, spirit rangers.

Viable is a build that offers good results in right hands but is unforgiving in the hands of a bad player. A viable build can easily outperform an optimal build if played right, but since you have to work harder to get good results from it, people tend to go for optimal builds.
Examples of viable builds now are powermancers, D/P thieves, BM bunker rangers, shatter mesmers, S/D fresh air eles etc.

Then there are the unviable builds, those builds which you can’t succeed with, no matters how good you are.
Examples of unviable builds are hybrid (condi-power) necromancers, condition thieves, staff elementalist etc.

There is a clear difference between optimal, viable and unviable builds. Mesmers at the moment aren’t unviable. They are just not optimal, while they Always was since the last big patch.

Also, your sentence about variety is an huge exaggeration.
Last time I’ve joined in tPvP (about a week ago, after the dhuumfire patch, since I’m on Holiday now), I’ve seen of course an over-representation of Necros and Rangers but the situation is by far not different from 3-4 months ago with BM rangers, mesmers and thieves or 9-10 months ago with Thieves and Mesmers.
The only difference is that now every profession has a moderate representation in tPvP while, times ago, there was Always a profession completely left out from the competitive scene (rangers before the pet patch, necromancers and warriors before the june patch etc).

Also, GW2 is absolutely not 100% team based as I’ve already proved that in a topic I’ve made some time ago. It is team based at 30% at best.

toutatis.9245:

They could start with giving back the rune of perplexity (additional confusion and increased confusion duration). Confusion should have been our weapon against thiefs that can get rid of burning, poison and bleeding by just one healing via their hide in shadows.

very much agree. perplexity is an absolute joke, that makes anet look like they hate mesmers and really wanna destroy the class!

sorrow.2364:

Also, GW2 is absolutely not 100% team based as I’ve already proved that in a topic I’ve made some time ago. It is team based at 30% at best.

Trolloloololololollo, where’s the peer review? OH RIGHT there isn’t one, referencing a post you made yourself sure is hefty proof you’re right.

Honestly if you have no idea what you’re talking about why even bother posting?..

Mesmer is nonviable in the current meta, any team that has a mesmer on it is going to have a much harder time then a team that has two necros instead of just one.

2 necros 1 Spirit 1 Guard 1 S/D Thief(or Engi or even warrior.) is the meta.
If you drop the spirit ranger your back point is going to get capped
If you drop a necro you’re going to lose those team fights.
If you drop the S/D thief for a mesmer Lolololololololololololol
Guards don’t get dropped.

Oh but the mesmer has Moa! What a genius argument that is, how useful one elite is!
Look how well it stacks up to what a Necro can bring to a mid team fight. oh right it basically doesn’t.
Look how well it stacks up to what a Thief/Ranger can bring to close/far point skrimish
OH! LOL Again,

BUT MOA IS OP which is why most mesmers run timewarp.

Darnis.4056:

Trolloloololololollo, where’s the peer review? OH RIGHT there isn’t one, referencing a post you made yourself sure is hefty proof you’re right.

Honestly if you have no idea what you’re talking about why even bother posting?..

Mesmer is nonviable in the current meta, any team that has a mesmer on it is going to have a much harder time then a team that has two necros instead of just one.

2 necros 1 Spirit 1 Guard 1 S/D Thief(or Engi or even warrior.) is the meta.
If you drop the spirit ranger your back point is going to get capped
If you drop a necro you’re going to lose those team fights.
If you drop the S/D thief for a mesmer Lolololololololololololol
Guards don’t get dropped.

Oh but the mesmer has Moa! What a genius argument that is, how useful one elite is!
Look how well it stacks up to what a Necro can bring to a mid team fight. oh right it basically doesn’t.
Look how well it stacks up to what a Thief/Ranger can bring to close/far point skrimish
OH! LOL Again,

BUT MOA IS OP which is why most mesmers run timewarp.

Gogo personal Attacks and pointless sarcasm! Please, be mature and don’t get arrogant, it makes you look stupid and childish.

I hope that you’ve at least read the topic I was referring to before saying it is worthless. I’ve came up to that conclusion after a lot of reasoning and comparisons to other games. Where is the reasoning that made you say that GW2 is team based? Where that statement comes from?

Have you read what I’ve wrote about optimal, viable and unviable? Looks like you didn’t.

Mesmers run TW? Exactly when was the last time you played PvP?

Don’t even bother to make another post like this, I won’t answer to such a mixture of arrogance, stupidity and flame.

Gw2 is team based because of how the combat works in this game. We don’t have dedicated healers per se. And no mesmers don’t run TW anymore and we were the only class to not be compensated for that nerf.
Optimal-Means it is the best choice for the current meta
Viable-It can work if you really put your guns to it
Unviable-it just as well be a 4v5.

Mesmer in this meta turns the match into a 4v5 for the most part except for maybe khylo where all they do is port back and forth to the treb.

jportell.2197:

Gw2 is team based because of how the combat works in this game. We don’t have dedicated healers per se. And no mesmers don’t run TW anymore and we were the only class to not be compensated for that nerf.
Optimal-Means it is the best choice for the current meta
Viable-It can work if you really put your guns to it
Unviable-it just as well be a 4v5.

Mesmer in this meta turns the match into a 4v5 for the most part except for maybe khylo where all they do is port back and forth to the treb.

You said that.
GW2 is not team based. The only “team-based” thing is that the only competitive mode is played with a team.

I’m not going to write my explaination here again. If you want, I can link you the topic where I’ve explained why GW2 isn’t team based.

TW is still an extremely good skill. Prior to the quickness nerf, it was plain broken.

Mesmers are not unviable. You can still see in the current meta good mesmers having good results.

As I’ve said before, unviable builds are other ones.
Comparing a shatter mesmer to a staff elementalist or a condition thief in PvP is a joke.
Staff elementalist is unviable, not mesmer.

The build for Mesmer in this comp is not the usual Shatter build but you can tweak it however you like. If you’re tired of this meta and want to make them eat BURST try this!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RREYzw6wjTVnXltv9IslcwA-fOG701FAOWqDNcI96U4/edit

jmatb.6307:

The build for Mesmer in this comp is not the usual Shatter build but you can tweak it however you like. If you’re tired of this meta and want to make them eat BURST try this!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RREYzw6wjTVnXltv9IslcwA-fOG701FAOWqDNcI96U4/edit

The helseth build. I have ran it. Terrible cooldowns on illusion summoning crap damage from phantasms and from shatters. Terrible cooldowns on shatters. Im sorry but after experimenting with builds over and over after the meta me nor any mesmer theory crafters are able to come up with a build that is viable right now. Mesmer burst in that trait line is easily negated. I appreciate the enthusiasm but until this meta is addressed mesmers are meh.

Xeph.4513:

sorrow.2364:

Xeph.4513:

Why are you so bitter ?

Because there are so many design flaws in PvP that there isn’t so much to being happy after 1 year of constant updates leading to nothing.

The meta was broken since launch and there wasn’t really a period in which you were able to say “Finally I can play in a balanced game”.

All I see in the sPvP forums are suggestion aiming to make changes that will lead again on imbalances, shifting the meta again in situations in which some profession overshadow all the others.

Mesmer has been and still is a must-take in every tPvP match because of its utilities. In the current meta Mesmer didn’t survived because of not-so-good condition removals. After you’ll bring again Mesmer in the meta, it will be again a must take in every team because of portal, IoL, Moa/TW and so on.

Necromancers and Rangers, after their conditions and spirits will be toned down, will be again unviable and brought in no team ever, because, in the way they are designed, they bring pretty much nothing in the conquest gamemode.

Probably the mother of every issue is that the competitive gamemode is only one and that some professions are designed to be the best at it..?

I have nothing against TP, it’s just that you are the biggest voice in the PvP community, but, still, it looks like you want to bring the meta as it was 6-7 months ago.

So because we don’t share the same balance views as yourself, it means thakittens fine to take shots at us ?
Sorry its just not making sense to me, because I also disagree with how you view balancing but you don’t see me coming on the forums and getting mad at you :<
just try and treat others as you would like to be treated is all I am saying.

But yes on topic, I do agree that mesmers at the moment are not viable in the meta, does that mean they are a weak class ? no
do they need buffs ? no
Fact of the matter is, that if necro and thief are nerfed, then mesmer will once again be viable and in my personal opinion a little too strong, espically damage wise, so what I would suggest is to:
Nerf the damage on berserker.
Remove the mightstacks given on mirror blade and replace it with regen/retaliation.
Reduce the mental torment trait to only giving 10% increased mindwrack damage.
Reduce Halting strike damage by 15% (its a free windwrack right now)

Hopefully that should bring them in line damage wise.
I am sure there are more things that need to be looked at, but I personally would start there.

Lets just stick to one thing at a time my little small popular mesmer friend. Let’s balance out the classes that need to be balanced first. And then we will see where Mesmer’s stand.

Countless

Its about the total team approach though. You and Ele will do massive damage, and if the thief/warrior reinforces they don’t have an answer for all that burst.

You’ll pull your weight trust me.

Ahhh okay ill try getting a team comp for it. The cooldowns of that build are obscenely long however and I think that is a big issue that should be addressed

. Long ago all illusion summons had their CDs nerfed by 20% this was because all mesmers took icelerity and possibly the weapon CD. Now iCelerity is nerfed and only shatter mesmers see decent cds on illusions summons. The cds need decreased by 20% for the other mesmer builds out there. If phantasm builds need nerfed do it to the damaging traits (empowered illusions) and not the CDs which punish all mesmers not just phantasm builds

Ok im pretty fed up with seeing people talk about how the Mesmer is so tough to deal with. Some people even say the Mesmer is still OP which is just spreading lies to make the Mesmer even less useful.

Prime example is that people say that illusionary leap is hard to dodge. Really? Is that a serious statement?

And Moa is easy to recognize as well and not to mention the Mesmer will still have quite a time trying to widdle your health down while you’re in Moa form.

This is why the Mesmer has undergone reductions and changes that were a bit more extreme than they should have been.

Ya they are long. You get more sustain though, even it’s just a little every inch counts.

Illusionary Persona is really good but the problem in this meta is the AoE spam from marks and S/D 2 and 5. You have to be close to your target, which plays into their hands b/c you’re out of position now, have all kinds of nastiness on you, and they have Death Shroud to troll your damage with.

I agree with the shatters. They punish you pretty hard DPS-wise for not speccing into Illusions, even though it gives condi dmg, which sucks in a burst build.

Also this thread in general is all over the place, nobody is sticking to the header of the thread. The op has made the thread about his opinion on mesmer’s being misplaced in the current “meta”. Then you have other people with their opinion on how mesmer’s should be nerfed. My response to this thread is simple. Balance out what needs to be balanced, such as spirit rangers, and necros " But within reason". And then see how it plays out overall within the game. Nothing more, nothing less.

Countless

Give mesmers a serious answer to conditions in one of our good trees, or make Chaos/Inspiration worth putting points into.

Mesmers as a class are in the same place as staff Elementalists are as a weaponset..

I see mesmers are starting to feel how warriors have felt since well uh launch. Don’t worry it stings less the longer it lasts. Then you will get a slight buff with a semi viable build then next thing you know BAM you are apparently a broken and op class but you are never allowed in tpvp. It’s funny i see some similar faces in here qqing about warriors being op.

Darnis.4056:

Give mesmers a serious answer to conditions in one of our good trees, or make Chaos/Inspiration worth putting points into.

Mesmers as a class are in the same place as staff Elementalists are as a weaponset..

That statement is so bs it is coloured brown on my screne

I tried a lvl 2 mesmer in spvp and stomped everyone.. Mesmer is the most powerful profession if you ask me… So much damage with so little effort

Ruby Highfarm.6073:

I tried a lvl 2 mesmer in spvp and stomped everyone.. Mesmer is the most powerful profession if you ask me… So much damage with so little effort

lv 2 mesmer strong vs lv 2 necro and lv 2 anything but wen rank up and ppl know hwat they are dong not just presing buttons well then its a difrent story

I did tournament game for achievement, with rank 40’s, and i myself is decent rank myself, just not too trained in the ways of the mesmer…

People are complaining to much. just play the game. Before this meta Necros and Warriors were weak like Mesmers and Eles are now.(they changed the places)

But Necros and Warriors never complained so much like you guys.

Ruby Highfarm.6073:

I tried a lvl 2 mesmer in spvp and stomped everyone.. Mesmer is the most powerful profession if you ask me… So much damage with so little effort

lol… I know you’re trolling bro. Too obvious. lol

Brayzz.6524:

People are complaining to much. just play the game. Before this meta Necros and Warriors were weak like Mesmers and Eles are now.(they changed the places)

But Necros and Warriors never complained so much like you guys.

I suggest you look at the history of this forum. You’ll find numerous threads about warriors and necros, complaining about how weak they were.

jmatb.6307:

The build for Mesmer in this comp is not the usual Shatter build but you can tweak it however you like. If you’re tired of this meta and want to make them eat BURST try this!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RREYzw6wjTVnXltv9IslcwA-fOG701FAOWqDNcI96U4/edit

You know what… hats off to Helseth for thinking outside of the box and trying something new. Nevertheless, when playing this build, you feel like you’re trying to fit a large square peg into a small circular hole.

In other words, I don’t think it can fulfil the the intended function.

Jasher.6580:

jmatb.6307:

The build for Mesmer in this comp is not the usual Shatter build but you can tweak it however you like. If you’re tired of this meta and want to make them eat BURST try this!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RREYzw6wjTVnXltv9IslcwA-fOG701FAOWqDNcI96U4/edit

You know what… hats off to Helseth for thinking outside of the box and trying something new. Nevertheless, when playing this build, you feel like you’re trying to fit a large square peg into a small circular hole.

In other words, I don’t think it can fulfil the the intended function.

Didn’t that use to have 30 inspiration for shattered conditions? I presume that’s what jasher is commenting on. if that is the case I have to agree, I tried it (and is probubly why it was switched in the document) It just gives enough to barely survive in the meta but it’s not strong enough to help your team besides the typical methods of mesmer support that you get no matter what build you run.

That being said theres no point when you can just run another top tier class for the meta.