Guild Wars 2

I agree. I think the teleport should give an advantage maybe to the mesmer teleport to the repair kit and if he tries to teleport with it on his hand, it would drop in starting point.

Imagine if assassins could teleport with flags in gw1. it would be a mad, non-funny pvp.

R E F L H E X.8413:

Doesn’t mean this at all. You just think the teams are superior because you haven’t formed a valid strategy for it. You also probably haven’t tried having other really fast classes for your trebuchet and compared them. As I’ve said before I’ve seen the treb mesmer team lose to one that didn’t have one and was a power war team with wars and guardians I believe.

Bad teams in this format have good chances of beating the better teams = competitive? There’s hope required every single match you get into because skill doesn’t separate two teams all that much knowing how to play your class very well means almost nothing.

This format is casual not meant to be competitive, there is a huge gap between the two.

Like wvw this is like trying to take your weekly swim seriously and making it competitive against yourself.

Well, I do think, this format can be competetive. I want it to be competetive. Thats why I don’t want a certain class to be far superior to the other classes for a very important role on a certain map. Because that could lead to a worse team winning versus a better team.
Other than that, how would a worse team be able to win versus a better team? That sounds… contradictory. The better team wins, no?

And when comparing classes: I used to treb for a while (Elementalist) and our Thief did the same. But both of us weren’t as good as our Mesmer. So yes, we have compared the classes and yes we came to the conclusion, that no one is better suited than a Mesmer.

9 seconds making a big difference when its not even enough time to reach closest node – clocktower? Just no.

Also, regardless of professions involved, both teams are one less player if there is a fight at treb. One because its attacking treb, the other because its defending.

We also compared classes at treb. And we re using mesmer as defense at treb – because most of the time he can be elsewhere, but can zip back to defend when needed. That is a much safer use of portal.

If it were only nine seconds you wouldn’t even make it to one of those nodes to help “for a few seconds”.

9 seconds making a big difference when its not even enough time to reach closest node – clocktower? Just no.

I need ~ these 9 seconds to get from clocktower to their treb or from their node (windmill/mansion) to the treb. If these 9 seconds miss I can’t get back in time.

Should be able to destroy the portal with normal skills. (Like queensdale killing portals in swamp)

Nargaroth.1482:

I agree. I think the teleport should give an advantage maybe to the mesmer teleport to the repair kit and if he tries to teleport with it on his hand, it would drop in starting point.

Imagine if assassins could teleport with flags in gw1. it would be a mad, non-funny pvp.

You wouldn’t want your assassin carrying the flag full time, that’s be a bad move really, he’d have to shadow form, and his jumps really aren’t all that far. He’d be a squishy class to have running your flags. There’s one jump that would work great but I think the cooldown is too long to rely one. I mean there was griefer builds that took a while to kill but yea, he’d be going so many random places he’d be slow at flag running kind of. A flag in gvg is a whole different story than a treb really.

Ok, just logged in and ran a few time-tests:

treb-repkit(no swiftness): 21sec
treb-repkit as ele with permaswiftness + rtl: 14sec
repkit-treb (permaswiftness): 18sec
repkit-treb (permaswiftness + flash-skill): 14sec

So… if an Elementalist repairs treb he needs ~ 28 seconds (with rtl and flash). The Mesmer needs 21seconds. Thats 7 seconds difference, so bit less than our estimated time.

So for some more times:

treb-mansion: 11sec
mansion-treb: 9sec
treb-clocktower: 10sec
clocktower-treb: 10sec

So, if I want to help at a sidepoint/clocktower versus a Mesmer:

Mesmer needs 21seconds to repkit, I need 20 seconds to mansion or clocktower + getting back to the treb. That means I could help at a sidepoint/mid for ~1seconds if I want to keep the treb disabled all the time.
If an Elementalist is getting the repkit he needs 28 seconds for both ways. That means I could help at sidepoint/Mid for ~8 seconds. That is not much of course, but it is enough time to neutralize Mansion if it isn’t defended. Or give my mate in clocktower the little edge he needs to win his fight. Just to name some possibility’s.

Do you still think, that isn’t a meaningfull difference?

Edit: adjusted some numbers

“Do you still think, that isn’t a meaningfull difference?”

Yes, nothing is stopping you from staying at the mansion you already ran to for ten extra seconds.

14+14 doesn’t = 32.

You also did not do shadowstep with the repair kit + the run signet + bow steps + swiftness which I am pretty sure steal gives on thrill of the crime.

Exept, that these 10 seconds result in the treb firing 1-2 times… and these 1-2 trebshots can loose you a node. If you neutralize Mansion but loose another node in exchange it wasn’t really worth it.
At least that is what I experienced in most Kylo tourneys so far.

Edit: Speedsignet + swiftness doesn’t stack. Also you can’t use weaponskills (like the bowport or rtl) when carrying the repair kit, thats why its 14 sec (getting to the repkit) +18 sec (getting back)

Edit#2: Using a teleport utility like shadowstep reduces the time to get back to 14seconds, will alter that and run some extra tests.

+run signet and any other passive speed boost doesn’t stack with swiftness.
Also, that’s not 10 or so seconds difference, that’s 10 or so seconds every time you do it. And it’s only 10 or so seconds because you’re using an elementalist, possibly the easiest class to knock off the treb.

“Edit: Speedsignet + swiftness doesn’t stack. Also you can’t use weaponskills (like the bowport or rtl) when carrying the repair kit”

Yes they do, the speed signet is only 15% and you can run up to 33%.

Now, you use the bow to shadowstep there, then the wait for it — UTILITY shadowstep once you have the kit.

I understand there is a difference. I ve been showing that with math ;p. What i m saying, is that the difference is small, compared to the cost of that difference – 60 sec cd on utility skill, and being locked into that choice beforehand too.

10seconds difference is kind of a small benefit if you consider its only once every 60seconds, and you’re profession locked. I believe there are better uses of portal, and better mobility snapbacks.

Well at masters level it would be significant, i ll grant you that. We re nowhere near that though.

Thank you for taking the time to measure the times though.

“Yes they do, the speed signet is only 15% and you can run up to 33%.” Ye, but swiftness already grants you 33% movement speed. So the additional 15% wouldn’t help you much.

Also tweaked some numbers + added time with flash-skill. Also creating a thief atm, lets see how fast I can be^^

The thief actually sounds faster than the mesmer to me, seeing how his bowsteps will get him there quite a bit quicker, he could quite possibly match portal time if anything.

Gelrod.1295:

“Yes they do, the speed signet is only 15% and you can run up to 33%.” Ye, but swiftness already grants you 33% movement speed. So the additional 15% wouldn’t help you much.

Also tweaked some numbers + added time with flash-skill. Also creating a thief atm, lets see how fast I can be^^

The additional 18% is very noticeable.

Ran the Thief test… he’s definitivly slower than the ele, at least the way I played him, maybe someone else could manage to be faster, but I don’t think so.

And Reflhex, you can’t get faster than +33%. That means if you won’t get faster than permaswiftness.

So still no one faster than Mesmer… but its only a small difference (7 seconds) in speed.

Gelrod.1295:

Ran the Thief test… he’s definitivly slower than the ele, at least the way I played him, maybe someone else could manage to be faster, but I don’t think so.

And Reflhex, you can’t get faster than +33%. That means if you won’t get faster than permaswiftness.

So still no one faster than Mesmer… but its only a small difference (7 seconds) in speed.

I said that two posts above, you are trying to act like I don’t know something i already said.

Yes it stacks because 15% + 18% = 33%, how many times do I have to explain it in different ways? I already did TWICE, now three.

Yes they do, the speed signet is only 15% and you can run up to 33%.

What do you think this quote of what I said even means?

On a more serious note : I am typing this while playing (winning) with gw2 fully minimized because it is so intense.

No it doesn’t stack. You get 33% from swiftness. Thats cap. Nothing more.

Gelrod.1295:

No it doesn’t stack. You get 33% from swiftness. Thats cap. Nothing more.

When you have only 15% swiftness has to stack on top of it to cap the 33%.

That is stacking, otherwise swiftness would do nothing if it didn’t stack.

This isn’t even an arguement, i’ve stated clearly what happens four times now, what the hell are you trying to prove?

Swiftness is a buff. A buff that grants 33% movespeed.

Yea and the game works the same as guildwars 1, the same game that has been out for 8 years now. Everyone knows this. And yes, it is stacking when you use a perma 15% then swiftness to get the max amount. (Swiftness from what I said is not perma).

Movementspeedbonuses don’t stack in GW2, only the highest counts. And I ran the times with perma swiftness aka perma +33% speed.

facepalm
Swiftness alone: 33% MS
Swiftness + Signet: 33% MS
Swiftness + Trait: 33% MS
Swiftness + Everything: 33% MS
What part do you not understand?

^ this

The Boz.2038:

What part do you not understand?

The fact that I said the same thing 4 times already, what part of that do you not understand?

Swiftness from the steal is about 4 seconds. The 15% is perma therefore, using swiftness will stack for it’s duration.

Do you not understand that? Swiftness alone isn’t as fast as swiftness + the run buff.

Is that not clear?

Then why are you still saying that movementspeed signet could help in being faster?

Swiftness from the steal is about 4 seconds. The 15% is perma therefore, using swiftness will stack for it’s duration.

Do you not understand that? Swiftness alone isn’t as fast as swiftness + the run buff.
Is that not clear?

One is permanent, one has a short duration with a long recharge.

Not too hard to grasp this concept.

If you have permaswiftness it is as fast! And thats why thief is slower than ele, because ele has got perma swiftness.

Gelrod.1295:

If you have permaswiftness it is as fast! And thats why thief is slower than ele, because ele has got perma swiftness.

Ele doesnt have bow shadow steps AND THEN a shadowstep with the kit while running 15% the full time and 33% some of the time.

Ele can’t be faster than the thief, you just didn’t run the thief properly.

Ele gets one rtl, that’s like a single bowstep that gives you a one second stun before it ends.

I’m going to repoint this out now since you are trying to act all smart :

Ye, but swiftness already grants you 33% movement speed. So the additional 15% wouldn’t help you much.

The additional 18% is very noticeable.

I’m pretty sure ele is faster… but if you manage otherwise I’m happy to admit you’re right. You can try to be faster if you want.

Thiefsignet gives +25% speed btw

Gelrod.1295:

I’m pretty sure ele is faster..

“Pretty sure” doesn’t cut it and ele being faster when rtl pretty much stops before it ends for a full second or two while the thief gets to shadowstep with a bow his entire path + runspeeds. Then another shadowstep while holding the kit.

It just doesn’t make sense.

Gelrod.1295:

Thiefsignet gives +25% speed btw

Then this makes your argument on ele is faster a pretty bad argument now doesn’t it?

There is a pretty huge shortcut you can take with rtl but not with shadowstep or bow.

Gelrod.1295:

There is a pretty huge shortcut you can take with rtl but not with shadowstep or bow.

Don’t see how, the rtl gets obstructed and never goes through any kind of obstruction of any sort or kind.

Maybe if you are bug abusing to ignore walls.

When jumping of the treb you can rtl over the wall, because you start high enough… but you can’t shadowstep onto this wall, so a thief has to run around. Also ele has better runspeed.

Gelrod.1295:

When jumping of the treb you can rtl over the wall, because you start high enough… but you can’t shadowstep onto this wall, so a thief has to run around. Also ele has better runspeed.

Still doesn’t sound like ele can beat the thief. You should try running the thief next time. Thief not only has the perma boost for runspeed, but he also has the sahdowstep after the kit is grabbed, and shadowsteps to the kit.
Going voer a wall directly in front of jumping from the teb site just doesn’t sound like a very noticeable time gain, especially when you consider the “stun” rtl pretty much has before it ends.

As I said, I tried it with Thief and was slower than with Elementalist. Maybe I don’t know some clever shortcuts for the Thief… but currently I say, Ele is faster.

You don’t want to use shadowstep too early btw, cause you need it to get onto the treb-platform.
Also Elementalist has the better perma runspeedboost.

Maybe your math/counting was as bad during the runs as it was when comparing with and without swiftness.

You don’t want to use shadowstep too early btw, cause you need it to get onto the treb-platform.

Sounds to me like you never used a shortbow.

Now you are getting offensive because you have no further arguments… great arguing! Also I ran times, you just theorycraft… feel free to run your own times to prove me wrong.

Sounds to me like you never used a shortbow.

Sounds to me like you don’t know, that you can’t use weaponskills when holding the repairkit?

[quote=247803;Gelrod.1295:

Sounds to me like you never used a shortbow.

Sounds to me like you don’t know, that you can’t use weaponskills when holding the repairkit?[/quote]

Sounds to me like you tried using shadow step early before grabbing the repair kit.

Not hopping with a shortbow until you got there and then waiting until you have the kit until a clear opening with a long path to shadowstep.

We’ve been over the argument of not using shortbows during holding the kit, if you were good at arguing you wouldn’t have already said something previously and obviously known by everyone. As a matter of fact you wouldn’t have brought that up at all or wasted so much time arguing with yourself when the other person said clearly what swiftness does. It’s like I say something and then your argument is exactly what I just said : you aren’t making any sense full time.

Do the run and measure the time you need. No reason to continue theorycrafting with you.

Gelrod.1295:

Do the run and measure the time you need. No reason to continue theorycrafting.

There’s no reason to, the few seconds you save by having a mesmer isn’t that big of a deal.

/thread

It is, especially since Mesmer is not only a faster treb-repairer than anyone else but at the same time, with the same build great at defending the treb as well. That makes him superior over all other classes.
If portal-repair was disabled he would still be strong at defending but slower at repairing. That would result in more classes being viable for the treb position, since they could either be faster at repairing or as strong in 1v1 but not as fast when it comes to repairing than former portal-Mesmer.

/thread

Cry more.

The time as stated above by someone else isn’t that big of a deal.

Portal is almost useless aside from this one thing, and will not be used if it gets nerfed at all in spvp tournaments. (I wouldn’t be holding your breathe for the nerf chances are it won’t happen as it is clearly intended).

Anet knew what they were doing when they did this, I’m sure they thought should this be like gw1 flag running or not? Well the portal would be almost useless without this being able to actually do something. Same goes for shadowsteps, if they were making it like gw1 flag running that would drop it too.

If the time isn’t a big deal it could just be removed, right?

And our Mesmer runs portal in all 3 maps… its far from useless.

Gelrod.1295:

And our Mesmer runs portal in all 3 maps… its far from useless.

Then he’s wasting a good utility skill for the other two maps.

As for the first part, it’s really the only thing that makes portal useful. They wouldn’t have made it that way to begin with if they thought it needed to be removed. They had plenty of time during the beta to remove it, they also had clearly made it that way intentionally when coding the game. Especially if you know anything about gw1 and flag running you would clearly understand this was an intentional thing.

Sure, it’s possible that it’s intended. But that doesn’t mean it’s a good mechanic that couldn’t/shouldn’t be removed.

Gelrod.1295:

Sure, it’s possible that it’s intended. But that doesn’t mean it’s a good mechanic that couldn’t/shouldn’t be removed.

Same goes for stealing svanir kills, or excessive sharks, or the format in general, or wvw format in general.

Don’t see your point, there is more important stuff than something that was intended and working as they wanted it to.

Only agree with you on the more important stuff. But since portal-repairing should be solvable pretty easy compared to other stuff… don’t see why it shouldn’t. But whatever, time will tell if it gets changed or if it doesn’t.
Nothing more to say.

I’m not going to hold my breath, it’s not a game breaking thing, and I’ve seen teams lose with it to ones that didn’t have it. Plus it is working as intended.