Guild Wars 2

Deadly Toy.2630:

I agree. They are easy to use and deal WAY too much damage in a super short amount of time. And worst of all, all they have to do is spam a couple of skills and kills easily come. And on top of that, they have extremely effective escape skills. Combining all these, you got two op professions in PvP. Sure, they can be countered, but the same can be said about EVERY SINGLE CLASS. So yeah, please nerf them.

you cant spam any skills on the mesmer, since each one except the auto attack has a cooldown.

I agree. They are easy to use and deal WAY too much damage in a super short amount of time. And worst of all, all they have to do is spam a couple of skills and kills easily come. And on top of that, they have extremely effective escape skills. Combining all these, you got two op professions in PvP. Sure, they can be countered, but the same can be said about EVERY SINGLE CLASS. So yeah, please nerf them.

Just wana point out here that you got something wrong regarding mesmers, relitively we actually do quite low spike damage, individual bursts get to 7k if you are completely totally 100% glass cannon and even that’s only once ever 8 or so seconds. The thing about mesmers is that our main primary build packs survivabilty and defences along with strong sustained dps on a single target. We wreck most glass cannon builds just because they can’t soak the continual damage and we can use our defences to soak their burst. Burst wise we lose out to warriors, several specs of thief, engineers, at least one necro build, there’s a guardian build that heavily out bursts us while being way tankier.

i rolled a mesmer, lvld to two, went to the dummies, looked at each attack, and then went and SPvP’d. The class is inherently stronger than many other classes for very little skill.

The other class you tried was a ranger? Again comparing the damage from our attack’s is bloody pointless because we actually lose to a large amount of the other professions. The difference is that our primary build isn’t a glass cannon, it makes us king.

Having said that moa is OTT, could use a duration and cooldown reduction and our primary attack from downed state is so much better than any other profession it’s unreal. I’d say a few other prof’s could use a buff to their downed state as I feel the mesmers is a better borderline for where they should be. Top end downed state mesmer, bottom end should be where the guardian is.

Mesmer is all around one of the strongest professions in pvp, mostly do to their solid dps and good survivability mix.

For thieves they do way too much damage, backstabs for 10k+? damage, not including like 6k steal crits. My ele has 16k hp. Literally the first hit I take is over half my health bar and I can’t even see it coming. It doesn’t even matter if I hit my stun break/defensive cd’s I have to use 2 skills on huge cd’s just to not die in 2 seconds. I just don’t see why I have to use moves on 75+ second cooldowns to survive every idiot mashing heart seeker with haste.

I just want to see Ranger/Ele/Engineer/Necro improvments and you can leave the other classes alone. These classes have some good perks/builds but they are just not as well rounded and give up too much to get what other classes get almost for free.

If you’re dying to a heartseeker build thief, it’s your own fault. You can completely lock them down and destroy them so easily. Dodge their heartseekers, slow them, immobilize them. Suddenly they have no initiative, and you have roughly 90% health left.
Look, a free kill!

Also, Moa needs a nerf. Or specifically, the Moa form needs a buff.
Make them have the Moa screech that dazes for 4 seconds and heals you for 2k each second while doing it. Herp!

I actually met a solid engineer the other day, I think the problem is it has a very small number of powerful builds and is finkey to play.

The ele I know WAS good but I think it got smacked with the nerf bat and suffered for it. I also found it to be the one class which you have to really have a feel for (which I don’t) in order to be good with. Also met a strong necro who was able to put some good upfront burst with strong survivability and good sustained dps. Again I think it suffers from being quite niche.

Never met a good ranger.

Also, Moa needs a nerf. Or specifically, the Moa form needs a buff.

Needs to be 5 second duration on a 90-100 second cd. Not 10second duration on 180second CD. 10seconds wins you a fight for free, 5 seconds gives you a strong edge.

This is pretty much how a fight in 2-3 seconds goes if my one immobilise removal is on CD, if pistol whip didn’t make them evade all attacks while casting it I could use my shortbow skill to daze them like I do to warriors.

The only thing that I consider unbalanced is the OP Heartseeker + Haste combo. At least with a combo like bullrush charge and 100 blades on the warrior you can see it coming and avoid massive damage from that, but for the Thief’s combo they can just run in there, pop their skill, and spam 2 while it locks onto your location making it incredibly hard to dodge. Haven’t really used pistol whip before so I don’t know how well that move preforms.

when it says 22 hits its like hundred blades, thats him casting it 3 times with quickness, and skill 2 teleports him instantly to your location , which immobilises you, then procs the immobilise poison locking you down even longer, also pistol whip does a short stun and makes him evade all attacks , meaning no1 can peel him by attacking him or using a knockback.

The 2 classes are a little to good at 1 v 1 in my opinion, thief because pistol whip and especially heart seeker are brokenly good and mesmer is just a bit to strong in 1 v 1 , playing an engineer i’d like all classes to have to work for their damage like i have to. No problem with a thief killing someone in 4 seconds but if he does it with 1 button and anybody could do it, then it needs to be changed in my opinion. As for mesmer im not so sure but in 1 v 1 it seems they pop all their abilities and im either dead or he goes “omg he’s not dead” MOA, fights over and mesmer downed ability is obnoxious sometimes.

against a HS thief all you need to do is cripple him and BAM his heart seeker wont hit you after you dodge away. I play a thief with pistol+dagger and double dagger (thinking about changing double dagger to short bow), condition build. Whenever I play against another thief who is heart seeker I evade as soon as I see him open, cripple them and then kill him. Against a pistol whip thief ill pop a break as soon as I get hit by infiltrators strike and then if they are classic glass cannon build you can kill them in 2 seconds, if they have more survivability it means they have lost a lot of their burst dps. AoE seems to be the key to playing against mesmers, if they play high stun/daze build though I have a lot of trouble usually.

I mainly play ranger and thief in spvp. Thief is definately the easier class in spvp. I’ve also played mesmer a bit, which is quite strong but more complex than thief and for me wasn’t as satifying.

The ranger is good if the other team leave you alone (depending on build). A similar thing could be said about thief, but thief has so many escape tools that it is almost impossible to get locked down.

When someone decides to focus you on ranger, unless you are specced for survival you are likely dead, and have no options to really get away (although I’ve seen really good rangers keep distance well).

Its just a different skill cap. Thief you can go pretty much full burst daamge build but still have amazing survivability. Ranger you can get close to the damage output of a thief but have very limited survivability.

I agree. And class balance is quite unbalanced in every way. Ranger being seriously underpowered. Hope they nerf thief and mesmer and boost ranger (at least, dont have experience form all the classes). While waiting for this, i will make a mesmer for meself and go kill every1

Tomz.9265:

I agree. And class balance is quite unbalanced in every way. Ranger being seriously underpowered. Hope they nerf thief and mesmer and boost ranger (at least, dont have experience form all the classes). While waiting for this, i will make a mesmer for meself and go kill every1

The stupid thing is…..there are so many horrendously bad mesmers its unreal. People complain that they are everywhere in hotjoin but they are awful, like seriously bad. If you have even a basic knowledge of the class you can just take them apart. Unlike the rogue build which can be messy even then and the HB warrior who just prays your stun breaker is on CD, only finding out when he pushes it and a kill pops up on his screen, or not.

Most people who complain about the mesmer often start listing off all the things they think are overpowered and its 90% not real stuff we have. Read back in the thread for great examples of this, massive confusion damage, huge quantites of phantasm damage all combined with 30k hp and a bazillion toughness…what fantasy land are they living in :S

EDIT: Ranger is the one UP class imo.

So I was avoiding this thread, bc well they will forever exist in pvp forums, but, I can honestly say that both these classes are “Trending” in most hot join games. Now is it because they are just cool classes, or possibly there is merit in the OPs argument? I think there’s a case that can be made and I’m sure the devs are watching closely.

I lvled an Elementalist to 80. I tried every spec, every rotation, every weapon possible. I played WvW and Spvp for the last week. I could rarely score over 150 in a match. I was never the top ranked player in any match.

I made a Thief last night and hit lvl two. I went directly to Spvp and threw together a spec in a few minutes. I went directly into a Spvp match with zero practice time in pve or on the target dummies.

I used spider poison and assassins signet. I used the aoe stealth for my escape skill. I spammed mainly unlock and heart seeker.

I scored 250, died once and was first place over all.

Yeah, it is easy. Simple rotations, easy to understand skills, easy to understand builds and you smash face for huge numbers.

Jnaathra.6549:

I lvled an Elementalist to 80. I tried every spec, every rotation, every weapon possible. I played WvW and Spvp for the last week. I could rarely score over 150 in a match. I was never the top ranked player in any match.
I made a Thief last night and hit lvl two. I went directly to Spvp and threw together a spec in a few minutes. I went directly into a Spvp match with zero practice time in pve or on the target dummies.
I used spider poison and assassins signet. I used the aoe stealth for my escape skill. I spammed mainly unlock and heart seeker.
I scored 250, died once and was first place over all.
Yeah, it is easy. Simple rotations, easy to understand skills, easy to understand builds and you smash face for huge numbers.

Exactly, Ive done the same thing tbh. Have a lvl 6 Thief(I never even changed the weapons or traits it gave me in the mists by default lols) who I usually destroy with in sPVP and yet my 70 ele i put me heart and soul into gets stomped. Ill still play ele as I enjoy it and I dont want to be another bloody thief, and be part of the problem.

Some quick background info: I pvp on 5 different characters, enjoy them all, just hit rank 20. I’ve been enjoying this game because I feel like it’s the most balanced mmo class-wise I’ve ever played. I pvp on thief, mesmer, ele, necro, and engi. The thief is faceroll easy to play, no doubt about that, but I don’t think its overpowered at all. Most people who qq about my thief in spvp are running glass cannon builds too. If people actually trait for survival, use stun breaker utility traits, and learn to dodge, they would see thiefs as free kills. The fact is, most people don’t dodge, ever, or break out of stuns, ever.

The people who cry about my mesmer in spvp are the ones I see fighting my illusions and they’re always near the bottom of the scoreboard. If you have trouble fighting mesmers, here are some tips: the mesmer is the one not running directly towards you auto-attacking, the mesmer is the one not standing around doing nothing, the mesmer is the one strafing, the mesmer is the one that just reappeared, and lastly, the mesmer is usually the one furthest from you. Most mesmers are terrible and I consider them free kills. Mesmers and Ele’s have the highest skill cap of the 5 classes I play. I do agree that Moa is stupid though, I don’t use it.

Spec/trait for survival and you will see a big difference in your gameplay and points earned. If you are consistently having trouble, remember to try out different runes/amulets, etc. I had a friend who kept changing specs on his engi and was never satisfied, but he still had the runes/amulet he picked on day 1, he changed those and now he’s a beast. You can put up huge numbers with any class as a glass cannon, but be ready to die a lot and don’t qq when it happens.

Rangers can be a little OP imo on a good team with a Shortbow and haste. Mine can demolish people, especially squishy targets after they’ve used their escapes and other CD’s it’s usually game over. I’m not really built for 1v1 but I’ve learned to kite Warriors, Guardians and Thieves that I can win 75% of the time against them. I don’t fight a lot of Engi’s but those are usually long drawn out battles because if they are built tankie, they can’t burst me down and that’s usually how Engi’s are built. Glass ones have beaten me several times but I can also burst them down if I time things right and don’t fumble on my keyboard (happens a bit still).

That being said, Ranger still feels very underpowered and pigeon holed to me. Short and Axe/Warhorn seem to be the only way to play in SPvP. Shortbow for ST burst and A/W for AE damage. If the longbow had a better firing rate at reduced damage I would use that instead because it would be a lot more versatile and fun to play than Shortbow but currently SB is just too good to pass up.

Now with my thoughts on Ranger aside, HS and Pistol whip is being nerfed so the rumors say. They’re getting well deserved cool-downs from what I’ve heard. Mesmer’s get ALL their damage from Phantasms but I’ve faced a few that ripped me apart simply because I would get confused with clones and the Phantasm/Shatter damage along with being caught in close range was just too much. I can get those players to about 35-45% hp before I finally drop; but again they are the best 1v1 profession right now imo and I’m not built for 1v1 survivability at all.

Long post short: Ranger needs tweaks, Thieves are being nerfed, Mesmers need tweaks, Warriors can be beaten but could probably use some tweaking as well. Overall classes are, believe it or not, fairly balanced; numbers just need some tweaking—be it cool downs, damage, etc.

Just my thoughts.

My main is a mesmer and i agree it’s op, but not for the reasons that most people are pointing out.

First, moa morph it’s not op, time warp is. If you get morphed, just kite around pillars till it’s faded. I know that most people will disagree and say ‘’but in a team fight it’s 5v4’’, well the thing is that Mesmers are not team fight machines like Engs and Necros (necros are really underrated, they shine in tf).
Most of the time time warp will be more handy than a moa, especially if you are 1v2.

The portal should be nerfed, it’s not possible to teleport while holding the repair kit, it’s a joke, also the IRogue in downed state it’s too strong, and the Iwarrior with the GW is random, it can crit for 1k or for 9k.

Mesmer and Thievs are the strongest 1v1 fighters, the Thief has less surviability, but more mobility and burst. it’s a better roamer and a weaker point defender.

People need to understand that it’s impossible to have a game where classes are balanced around 1v1, you class can’t be strong in roaming, tf, and 1v1. You have to focus on your strong point.

TIP: People complains about the Mesmer downed state… it’s pretty simple, when they vanish, the first one to appear is a fake, kill the second one.

Ace of Spades.6325:

TIP: People complains about the Mesmer downed state… it’s pretty simple, when they vanish, the first one to appear is a fake, kill the second one.

Or the one with the red arrow above his head. It’s somewhat easy to miss but it’s just a delay tactic like all the other downed state #2 skills.

Like you said, it’s pretty simple. Not sure why people are complaining about it. Try being a Ranger or Necro when you’re downed. It kinda sucks; even if you run the Wolf and use the Fear howl, it still kinda sucks—mainly because you have to have that pet just for that AND it has to be alive.

I actually find most profs and builds very balanced in this game, but Mesmers are WAY OP. The foundation of their mechanic makes them almost impossible to beat 1v1 by any other prof or build. There simply needs to be an easier way to distinguish the real player from their illusions.

For those of you complaining about Thief HS spam, I dont know about your class, but on my Warr I simply put Shield Stance up and LOL then knock them down and proceed to destory them pretty easily. Almost all of them are specced so heavy into damage that they have about 14k hp.

I just think the meta has not figured out how to deal with it yet…….. Stop running in and pressing buttons vrs the thief that’s his job…. If you spam race a thief you will loose….. As far as the Mesmer goes… Make sure you have them targeted not an illusion. Hold yourself heal till after they burst you (like with a thief) then rip into them….

Guys gw is not met to be a 1v1 game it takes team work to take down a single person…. Even after all these years I still hear “spike on 6” or “spike my target in 3 2 1”

This is not your mothers mmo……

Trixer.2789:

I just think the meta has not figured out how to deal with it yet…….. Stop running in and pressing buttons vrs the thief that’s his job…. If you spam race a thief you will loose….. As far as the Mesmer goes… Make sure you have them targeted not an illusion. Hold yourself heal till after they burst you (like with a thief) then rip into them….

Guys gw is not met to be a 1v1 game it takes team work to take down a single person…. Even after all these years I still hear “spike on 6” or “spike my target in 3 2 1”

This is not your mothers mmo……

Its ironic that you are saying that, when Mesmer and Thief are the best 1v1 classes in the game. So according to you, they should require a team to kill other classes with easy too, right?

BlackDeath.7834:

Thedenofsin.7340:

I think Moa Morph is overpowered in its current form. It needs to have a shorter duration. Their illusions generally are useless. I just place a mark on the real mesmer and never have to worry about getting faked out. The only illusion that’s trouble is the pistol one – but he dies in a couple of hits, or just toss up a reflect wall and it kills itself.
Basically, you have to kill the pistol illusion, ignore the rest and dps down the mesmer and he’s toast, or he’ll run away.
With thieves you need to have a lot of hp and several knockbacks/knockdowns to avoid skillseeker spam.

Heartseeker has a built in evade, how do you expect to knockdown during it or when you are immobilized?

Wrong Ability, Heartseeker is #2, #3 has the evade.

I wish people that QQ’d about mesmer actually tried to play it. It has a very high learning curve and the majority of the mesmers I run into are no skill button mashers. If you’re losing to them then you are really bad and nothing short of nerfing the class into oblivion will help you. I guess when you run into the one good mesmer out of every 10 it warrants making a QQ nerf this class post. Maybe some of you did try to roll one and saw that you can’t quite grasp it. Better stick to your LolzLookAtMeSpinningWeeeeeeeee warriors while trying your hardest to get it nerfed.

I don’t get it, i dond find thief hard and OP, it has a nice burst but thats pretty much it for phisical damage.

I worry alot more if he has venonous build and i get tons of condition lasting for what seem ever.

And vs mesmer, the only hard thing was with thief:

OMG!!
Did i just wasted 3/5 initiative vs a clone/phantasm…
Thats ok, maybe this one is the RIGHT one.
OMFG!!!!
Ok… i can do this…
This is it, this is the right
>Mesmer uses decoy
>Rage quit

If i dont use Thief Guild and shortbow to pick off clones/phatasm, am done
Game over for me

Yet my ranger doesn’t have this problem (more survival)

Mesmer are somehow OP vs melee but thats it, the fact that they can kite/confuse a enemy makes is the reason why so many find then OP.

Going melee vs a ilussion while the mesmer is dealing damage and getting away.
Nasty and why i love mesmer

The simple answer is yes. Mesmer and Thief currently are outperforming other classes without any large offset or penalty in another area.

Learn to be faster and smarter.

Fixed.

Thieves are not OP I have been able to deal with them with every class I have played so far, however I have seen some, questionable Mesmer builds who take on 3 rogues at a time It is not as simple as the Mesmer answer of AOE since by the time you do AOE if you happen to be AOE heavy they have another batch of dps illusions which you have to kill, you find the real mesmer fine he changes position with his clone back to square one, if the mesmer is Crit heavy like some GS builds things get ugly.

Also this in NOT holy trinity other players should not have to bring a team with them to take out one psudo skilled mesmer with a good spec. It is easier to kill unkillable guardian specs at this point.

Ok here is my take on the state of thiefs and mesmers in sPvP.

Thiefs right now are good, but NOT op at all. Most builds that i have seen use double dagger or double pistol. Reason why is that it’s really the only way a thief can do dmg that matters in a fight. So by saying this thiefs at this stage of the game are very linear in terms of builds. In 1vs1 situations, thiefs usually win because of how the class is. In group fights, in my opinon don’t do well. Reason why is that almost none of your skills do aoe dmg only single target dmg. Also thiefs are very SQUICKY, if you focus a thief during a group fight he or she is going to down very quickly, which usually does happen a lot.

To me the class overall isn’t op, just a few skills need a nerf like heartseeker. That skill I agree needs a nerf, it does too much dmg for its low cost and having no cooldown.

Mesmers right now I’ll say they are NOT op. They have the same problems as thiefs do as terms of builds they are very linear. I think the reason why people think they are op is that you just don’t know how to play againest one simple as that. Yes they are annoying to kill, because of their pets that they summon and there defense skills. But honestly if you can’t spot a mesmer running around their illusions spaming skills on you. I would have to say your a scurb numb, just have to get that off my chest, but i would have to say that moa bird elite skill is really op and unfair.

Other than that, the class isn’t op. It’s just that either people don’t know how to play againest one or you can’t target a mesmer running around their illusions spamming skills on you, in this case i have little hope for you.

(Pro Tip) Learn to play the class in order to beat the class.

i didn’t really read previous discussions or opinions, only the first post and im sorry if i just copy anyone or bring back “old” topics here, but here is what i think:

thief: yeah, the definitely need some kind of nerf. i managed to kinda get most of them with my mesmer, but sometimes they just pop up and like 2-shot me. What i hate most about them is their ability to do like infinite stealth… I don’t even try to finish them in downed, i rather attack them till they die cause they just have so many ways to dodge the finisher. Also i think their healing abilities are insane. I bring them to 25% hp, they go stealth and just appear 3 secs later with full hp and tons of boons.
i have to say though that i never really played thief so i know 100% how they work, but i have a good idea =)

mesmer: in this point i mostly disagree with u. they certainly r annoying, but they r not op (imho). I main mesmer so on the one side u can say i have this like “no my class is not op plz dont nerf it”-opinion, but on the other hand do i know how the mesmer works..
So your point with finding the right one: clones dont really move and dont dodge, so just watch them. if u call the right enemy the target symbol dont disappear if he clones himself. and the biggest point: clones have always full health so if u have damaged the real mesmer just look at the hp bar. Thats basically the easiest way to find the right. to be 100% sure just attack a clone once (yeah it can take a while) cause clones have very low health.
the downed mesmer skill which does confusion on every hit is definitely very strong. but you are overrating the skill a bit. every class has the ability to dodge a finisher some are stronger than others, but yeah what would be the point in exactly same downed skills…
and many mesmer make the mistake to use their stealth clone skill and then start healing ( 4th down skill) with surround them in a blue light. thats basically the yell at you for killing him ^^
the moa morph is very strong in that point i agree absolutely and the portal thing is also very strong if used right.

So all in all i think the mesmer is definitely not op. It is very annoying but thats basically it. if an enemy sees through your abilities and clones your pretty much screwed. But there are many not so smart players out there – and i dont want offend anyone with that statement – who just dont get the mesmer basics and hitting everything they have on the clones.

feel free to criticise me =)

While there may need to be some small adjustments needed for the most part this is a huge learn to play issue with the community. I still hear the complaints about Hundred Blades sometimes, but thankfully that has died off for the most part. It’s actually extremely easy to counter a Thief Power Burst build with any active mitigation, and the Phantasm Power Mesmer is extremely vulnerable to that same active mitigation combined with cleaves and AoEs to completely neuter damage output.

What I actually think pisses people off is that the Mesmer and Thief by nature is tricky and annoying to kill. They make you think, and I think a lot of people would rather just click all their cooldowns for free kills. A lot of people also don’t seem to realize as well that the downed state is rather important to combat, and when you do somehow manage to get bursted down your team should be able to pick you up. That doesn’t happen in pugs.

Honestly I love that the game is full of terrible Thieves and Mesmers, because they are easy to kill and deal with. Especially when I’m on my Engineer.

Twiztedcool.2467:

Ok here is my take on the state of thiefs and mesmers in sPvP.

Thiefs right now are good, but NOT op at all. Most builds that i have seen use double dagger or double pistol. Reason why is that it’s really the only way a thief can do dmg that matters in a fight. So by saying this thiefs at this stage of the game are very linear in terms of builds. In 1vs1 situations, thiefs usually win because of how the class is. In group fights, in my opinon don’t do well. Reason why is that almost none of your skills do aoe dmg only single target dmg. Also thiefs are very SQUICKY, if you focus a thief during a group fight he or she is going to down very quickly, which usually does happen a lot.

To me the class overall isn’t op, just a few skills need a nerf like heartseeker. That skill I agree needs a nerf, it does too much dmg for its low cost and having no cooldown.

Mesmers right now I’ll say they are NOT op. They have the same problems as thiefs do as terms of builds they are very linear. I think the reason why people think they are op is that you just don’t know how to play againest one simple as that. Yes they are annoying to kill, because of their pets that they summon and there defense skills. But honestly if you can’t spot a mesmer running around their illusions spaming skills on you. I would have to say your a scurb numb, just have to get that off my chest, but i would have to say that moa bird elite skill is really op and unfair.

Other than that, the class isn’t op. It’s just that either people don’t know how to play againest one or you can’t target a mesmer running around their illusions spamming skills on you, in this case i have little hope for you.

(Pro Tip) Learn to play the class in order to beat the class.

This is how you argue about a class. You provide constructive criticism take note mouthbreathers. “ermegerrrd dis class OP” comments really don’t add anything substantial to the conversation.

As far as Moa is concerned it is quite easy to see it channeling and dodge (los even breaks it…) If there’s one thing every single map provides its the ability to los your enemies.

There are two situations in which I will use Moa.
Going into a 2v1 fight I don’t see what the problem is here. Every class is quite capable and has the utilities to deal with a mesmer. If neither opponent is competent enough deal with a mesmer 1v1 in consecutive fights I’m sure we’ll see you here crying to get something else nerfed tomorrow.

Or when I see a necro use lich form.

That’s about it unless I’m trolling… It has an absurdly long CD… 4 minutes
If you’re going to attribute your loss to a single elite skill then you have 4 more minutes in the match to go and get your retribution so whats your real excuse? There isn’t one you’re just a bad player, accept it and get better.

If you aren’t rolling every class and taking them to SPvP to learn their capabilities/counters YOU WILL NEVER BE AS PRO AS YOU THINK YOU ARE, NEVER….

If you think Moa is our best elite, you know nothing about mesmer and you will never be good at fighting them.

If you aren’t rolling every class and taking them to SPvP to learn their capabilities/counters YOU WILL NEVER BE AS PRO AS YOU THINK YOU ARE, NEVER….

If you think Moa is our best elite, you know nothing about mesmer and you will never be good at fighting them.

I don’t know if your attacking me or just your a butthurt mesmer player. Because i clearly stated .

(Pro Tip) Learn to play the class in order to beat the class.

No… I only referenced your post as the way to argue about a class. Offering constructive criticism and such. The rest of the post isn’t directed at you, just the people whining without any knowledge.

“This is how you argue about a class. You provide constructive criticism take note mouthbreathers. "

A few theorycrafting tips for those who defend mesmers:

- Invest 5 points, only 5 yes, into the Illusions trait line (the bottom one) to get “Illusionists celerity”:
——>20% decreased cd on ALL ILLUSION SKILLS.
That includes every weapon skill that creates clones, phantasms,
plus a few Utility skills like Decoy (their main stealth).
Yep, only 5 points. Plus you can cumulate with any weapon specialization, for an additionnal 20%.
That is around 40% cd reduction on any skill creating clones or phantasms.
That’s pretty short in the end, for abilities that are already on a relatively short cd.

- Get gready and get 10 points (yep, only 10) in Domination, the first line, for “Empowered Illusions”:
—→15% damage increase for illusions. Same, affects clones & phantasms.
Clones will barely scratch you anyway, but phantasms…
Not to mention illusions scale with power/crit, so…

In the end as a mesmer you can invest only 15 points to increase your
clone spamming/phantasm damage capability by…A LOT!!!

I’d really like to hear the other “pet classes” opinion on such powerful, cheap investment, traits.

Seriously, we’re just barely over two weeks into release and people are crying for nerfs. Of course it’s a confusing mess dealing with Mesmers in a 1v1, that’s the point of the class…misdirection and slipperiness. I’ve done plenty of sPvP in BWEs and since release, the average player seems to get tunnel vision and refuse to think outside the box. You aren’t beating a good Mesmer with brute force, sorry.

Prelude.3817:

A few theorycrafting tips for those who defend mesmers:

- Invest 5 points, only 5 yes, into the Illusions trait line (the bottom one) to get “Illusionists celerity”:
——>20% decreased cd on ALL ILLUSION SKILLS.
That includes every weapon skill that creates clones, phantasms,
plus a few Utility skills like Decoy (their main stealth).
Yep, only 5 points. Plus you can cumulate with any weapon specialization, for an additionnal 20%.
That is around 40% cd reduction on any skill creating clones or phantasms.
That’s pretty short in the end, for abilities that are already on a relatively short cd.

- Get gready and get 10 points (yep, only 10) in Domination, the first line, for “Empowered Illusions”:
—->15% damage increase for illusions. Same, affects clones & phantasms.
Clones will barely scratch you anyway, but phantasms…
Not to mention illusions scale with power/crit, so…

In the end as a mesmer you can invest only 15 points to increase your
clone spamming/phantasm damage capability by…A LOT!!!

I’d really like to hear the other “pet classes” opinion on such powerful, cheap investment, traits.

You are of course aware, that about 75% of a Mesmers damage is through his Phantasms, right?

Prelude.3817:

A few theorycrafting tips for those who defend mesmers:

- Invest 5 points, only 5 yes, into the Illusions trait line (the bottom one) to get “Illusionists celerity”:
——>20% decreased cd on ALL ILLUSION SKILLS.
That includes every weapon skill that creates clones, phantasms,
plus a few Utility skills like Decoy (their main stealth).
Yep, only 5 points. Plus you can cumulate with any weapon specialization, for an additionnal 20%.
That is around 40% cd reduction on any skill creating clones or phantasms.
That’s pretty short in the end, for abilities that are already on a relatively short cd.

- Get gready and get 10 points (yep, only 10) in Domination, the first line, for “Empowered Illusions”:
—->15% damage increase for illusions. Same, affects clones & phantasms.
Clones will barely scratch you anyway, but phantasms…
Not to mention illusions scale with power/crit, so…

In the end as a mesmer you can invest only 15 points to increase your
clone spamming/phantasm damage capability by…A LOT!!!

I’d really like to hear the other “pet classes” opinion on such powerful, cheap investment, traits.

I’ll do more testing when i get back. But the weapon specific traits, (reduce skill from specific weapon type by 20%) does not stack with Illusionists celerity. so you can only have a 20% reduced cooldown.

Also, I believe the downed state teleport for the thief and the clone for the mesmer should only be able to be used ONCE during each downed state.

BlackDeath.7834:

Also, I believe the downed state teleport for the thief and the clone for the mesmer should only be able to be used ONCE during each downed state.

The cooldown for the Mesmer downed state clone ability is quite long. You should have plenty of time to stomp the correct Mesmer.

My opinion:

Thief: Very good burst if build and use correctly, yet they are pretty much glass cannons, anyone who knows how to pvp will even the grounds on a thief without problems. Their teleport around when struggling for a rally is nothing big or anything that should make you go Q_Q nerf nerf about. Gun whip does hit hard, but you can dodge it can’t you? You can block it as a shield warrior too, so on tactics against it go.

Mesmer: Insane damage…compared to other classes I find their damage to be right where it should be, maybe a little low but is a good price for the whole confusion and chaos they bring to one on one encounters. Their down ability IS insanely annoying I say even stupidly so.

As mentioned by others, Guardians imo are the only class that needs some nerfing. Any other class u can even the grounds with different tactics, guardians on the other hand are pure self buff damage heal control all in one, specially if they make spiritual weapons. Those things would chase you to hell and back, knock you and make your life miserable all under the control of an AI.

The problem with the Mesmer is their base health.

Mesmer’s base health : 15k
Thief’s base health : 10k

One is glass cannon, the other is WTF.

The amount of time needed to kill a Mesmer is beyond ridiculous right now. This needs to be addressed immediately.

Prelude.3817:

A few theorycrafting tips for those who defend mesmers:

- Invest 5 points, only 5 yes, into the Illusions trait line (the bottom one) to get “Illusionists celerity”:
——>20% decreased cd on ALL ILLUSION SKILLS.
That includes every weapon skill that creates clones, phantasms,
plus a few Utility skills like Decoy (their main stealth).
Yep, only 5 points. Plus you can cumulate with any weapon specialization, for an additionnal 20%.
That is around 40% cd reduction on any skill creating clones or phantasms.
That’s pretty short in the end, for abilities that are already on a relatively short cd.

- Get gready and get 10 points (yep, only 10) in Domination, the first line, for “Empowered Illusions”:
—->15% damage increase for illusions. Same, affects clones & phantasms.
Clones will barely scratch you anyway, but phantasms…
Not to mention illusions scale with power/crit, so…

In the end as a mesmer you can invest only 15 points to increase your
clone spamming/phantasm damage capability by…A LOT!!!

I’d really like to hear the other “pet classes” opinion on such powerful, cheap investment, traits.

WRONG!

If you actually would try and play a mesmer you would first note.
Those two traits for a 20% reduction do not

let me repeat

DO NOT stack.

Secondly, ever since the nerf to clones, the only form of raw DPS is from phantasms.
You know the things that are pink and die in 3 hits, those.
If your attacking clones and letting phantasms hit you every 4 seconds, then your death is your own fault.

Moa Morph admittedly is the biggest fudge you in the game, though it isnt the best elite, it makes 1 v 1 fights almost impossible to win when it lands.

You are of course aware, that about 75% of a Mesmers damage is through his Phantasms, right?

Exactly my point, Mesmer main damage source/defense mechanism can be increased by a mere third
(115% damage with 20% more uptime, yeah, around a third more efficiency) by investing only 15 points:
This is cheap, too cheap. Those traits should be moved to higher tiers, like many other first tier traits have been in beta.

I’ll do more testing when i get back. But the weapon specific traits, (reduce skill from specific weapon type by 20%) does not stack with Illusionists celerity. so you can only have a 20% reduced cooldown.

The Tooltip, as for many skills among all classes, are not correctly updated by those cd reductions.
Trust the recharge timer, even if it doesn’t show decimals.
Most obvious and dreadful example is for “Illusionary Duelist”: CD is reduced from 15 to 9 seconds if traited for both Illusion and pistol cd reduction (Timer will show 8 sec on use).
Other examples for greatsword, timer for Mirror Blade shows around 4.5 sec, and Phantasmal Berserker shows 11 sec.
Works for the sword “Illusionary Leap” too, it does spawn a clone after all.

I personnally have played my share of the Mesmer to understand his mechanisms and discover his flaws. What I have mostly found are broken mechanisms and totally unbalanced skills.
Moa comes to mind first of course, but also the fact that phantasm summoning skills can’t be obstructed nor avoided, unlike any other target dependant skill in the game.
You can basicly spam phantasms on a target from behind an obstacle as long as it’s in range, making it impossible for enemies to hide from you, or making it very easy for you to deal damage unseen. Very unfair mechanism imo, easily exploitable in combat.

What I really wonder is if it’s a bug, on purpose, or a blatant misconception of the class.

How they left Phantasm Mesmers and Thief as a whole in this state on live (for two weeks now and counting) is actually really concerning. You actually don’t need to be new to the game to see these clear unbalances, and with an experienced QA team they should have seen this coming (remember how, in closed Beta, those Cloack and Dagger+Backstab spammers with near perma stealth were quickly fixed?).
People defending this is pretty laughable, but it shouldn’t be, as it happens in every MMO ever.

Let me just put something into perspective. While I agree that 2 or more thieves in 1 fight can burn a lot of setups, the same goes for 2 of any class. It’s only logical. 2 of something deadly is always deadlier. It just happens that this a burst class. If there was 2 mesmers or 2 guardians, I can guarantee that would be WAY more ridiculous to beat. In fact us thieves would just back the eff off outta there and use another angle. No point giving free points to other team.

Secondly, please do not whine when a thief gets the jump on u and slams u into the ground before u can say howdy doo u do because THATS the point. Thats the 1 thing we are very good for. Now lets assume for a moment that thiefs were not even able to do that. Then what do we do? hopelessly shoot pistols hoping to bleed your entire health bar out pressing the 1 key? Or perhaps hey yeah sure we’ll stick ard for a few minutes getting focused by everyone. The thief is about in>slam>out.

Now playing a thief till rank 10 in sPvP, it is not exactly a walk in the park setting up a jump on just anyone. Plenty times ppl dodge it. Eles (was it?) put up the lightnin shield thing that stops PW from going past the bash. Guardians. well. Lets just say there are plenty guardians out there that know what they are doing. Remember that the moment we miss it, u got us on 2 X 45s CDs (or 36, depending on spec), following which you can then proceed to lock us down and decimate, unless we specced for that extra escape skill. The moment my presence is realised everyone is on me like Comicon opened 1 month early, sheesh. The moment we lose the control we die. Thats how you win a thief.

I would also like to add that for the love of god, it is just September 13th, hold your horses. The more familiar people get with our burst sequences, the harder it gets for us. And no I do not use dual daggers, that does not require brains to play nor does it keep you alive for long in a bigger fight. Plus honestly it is just ridiculous to watch my thief doing HS spam. I run a pistol/dagger with a swap to S/P. For those who would like a heads up, keep ur distance if you see this setup because we can just keep taking the dagger number 5 skill to stealth off you and keep bleeding you out with pistol 1 stealth skill + stab n tele away and shoot skill (3) until our CD’s are over, after which the match is over cos hello here comes S/P > devourer venom + Haste + Steal/number 2 skill + P/W. BOOM.

Lastly, and this is important. 1v1 a thief absolutely does not mean you lose. We do get cut down by some really simple but smart tactics.

Oh, I just tested it, “Illusionists celerity” also affects both illusion related down state abilities. Wouldn’t be fun if it didn’t :p.

vikramchamp.7450:

Let me just put something into perspective. While I agree that 2 or more thieves in 1 fight can burn a lot of setups, the same goes for 2 of any class. It’s only logical. 2 of something deadly is always deadlier. It just happens that this a burst class. If there was 2 mesmers or 2 guardians, I can guarantee that would be WAY more ridiculous to beat. In fact us thieves would just back the eff off outta there and use another angle. No point giving free points to other team.

Secondly, please do not whine when a thief gets the jump on u and slams u into the ground before u can say howdy doo u do because THATS the point. Thats the 1 thing we are very good for. Now lets assume for a moment that thiefs were not even able to do that. Then what do we do? hopelessly shoot pistols hoping to bleed your entire health bar out pressing the 1 key? Or perhaps hey yeah sure we’ll stick ard for a few minutes getting focused by everyone. The thief is about in>slam>out.

Now playing a thief till rank 10 in sPvP, it is not exactly a walk in the park setting up a jump on just anyone. Plenty times ppl dodge it. Eles (was it?) put up the lightnin shield thing that stops PW from going past the bash. Guardians. well. Lets just say there are plenty guardians out there that know what they are doing. Remember that the moment we miss it, u got us on 2 X 45s CDs (or 36, depending on spec), following which you can then proceed to lock us down and decimate, unless we specced for that extra escape skill. The moment my presence is realised everyone is on me like Comicon opened 1 month early, sheesh. The moment we lose the control we die. Thats how you win a thief.

I would also like to add that for the love of god, it is just September 13th, hold your horses. The more familiar people get with our burst sequences, the harder it gets for us. And no I do not use dual daggers, that does not require brains to play nor does it keep you alive for long in a bigger fight. Plus honestly it is just ridiculous to watch my thief doing HS spam. I run a pistol/dagger with a swap to S/P. For those who would like a heads up, keep ur distance if you see this setup because we can just keep taking the dagger number 5 skill to stealth off you and keep bleeding you out with pistol 1 stealth skill + stab n tele away and shoot skill (3) until our CD’s are over, after which the match is over cos hello here comes S/P > devourer venom + Haste + Steal/number 2 skill + P/W. BOOM.

Lastly, and this is important. 1v1 a thief absolutely does not mean you lose. We do get cut down by some really simple but smart tactics.

Burst sequences? Heartseeker spam isn’t a sequence, silly goose.

Oops, didn’t mean to double post.