Guild Wars 2

Just wanted to throw this out there: just because a thief loses to someone, or a certain class can counter them, does not mean that their abilities are not out of whack and need to be adjusted.

For example, the fact a thief can 2 shot anyone almost instantly when they are at 50% health is OUT OF WHACK. Even if they did 0 damage until a target was 50%, that is still far out of balance with the other classes in the game.

I actually find most profs and builds very balanced in this game, but Mesmers are WAY OP. The foundation of their mechanic makes them almost impossible to beat 1v1 by any other prof or build. There simply needs to be an easier way to distinguish the real player from their illusions.

Learn to use call target. The only problem you have is whenkitten start using call target on stuff other than mesmers.

I agree with OP 100%. Mesmers and thieves are the most irritating over powered classes in PVP. There is no valid argument against that fact.

Its funny how people Q_Q on mesmers and thieves. Do you all really build glass cannons so thief/mes can burst you down with 1 combo? Same I can call properly builded necro as OP because its nearly unkillable even in 3v1 and still can do lot of dmg. Never seen mesmers hitting me for more than 5k crit with blurred frenzy and outside that they can do only sustained DPS which can be kited/healed. Same about thieves, not brightest idea how can you get critted for more than 7k. Or ok. If thief is total glass cannon with 14k hp and 2k armor. But then he is completly useless in fights other than 1v1 so its his weakness.
The only opinion here is that warriors need a bit love. I played diffrent classes sPVP and the only one im loosing to mes/thief is warrior. With engi/necro i can beat almost every mes 1v1 and most thieves. On the other hand problem for mes is guardian/SMART ranger/ele if he wipes out all clones with single AOE.
And one more – when you go sPVP you can see a lot kitteny thieves/mesmers. Its a proof that that they are not op, needs some skill to be properly used but people are loosing to them, think they are op and then suck.

I don’t find Mesmers to be OP at all, they are fine, however The thief’s move heartseeker that can be argued. And in regards too Necro’s being OP that’s Hogwash. I am a Necro speced for Death Shroud and a thief can burn down my life Force with 2 hits from their heartseeker when it crits…U can properly use your CD’s fear, blind, vulnerability effectively dodge rolling, but a thief will always have the upper hand due to there burst damage. A thief does tremendous damage against clothes. We spend half our time running off just to heal up, or too find a group member, normally a warrior or guardian…Thiefs are built for single target damage, so the instant they have the upper hand your stuck in a rut… Heartseeker is just beyond ridiculous… been hit for 9k by it several times that’s 1/3rd of my health and its a direct attack…elementalist’s have 18k+/- health depending, so i feel sorry for them… The only class I can see 3v1ing anybody is a warrior or a guardian… focus any clothe and they die faster then the rest, even a Necromancer.

Thieves are meant to 1v1. All in all they are ‘assassins’. Role of sin in every game is being able to quickly take down low hp clother and I’m fine with it. The price is – to crit over 7k he has to be 14-16khp and you can take him down quickly too. This require some form of hard CC but is possible and achivable. I do not play thief personally but dont think he’s any way imba in pvp in 1v1 I may loose to him, but in bigger fights they are not that big threat.
Classes that can 3v1 imho war/guardian/necro (specced for DS/cc/dots – prob won’t kill but wont get killed too and will strongly damage enemies)/engi.

Lewk.8359:

i rolled a mesmer, lvld to two, went to the dummies, looked at each attack, and then went and SPvP’d. The class is inherently stronger than many other classes for very little skill.

What a load of rubbish. Roll Thief, do a standard HS spam build and then you have a whole new perspective on classes that offer a very good return on very little skill.

At least with the Mesmer, you have to think about what you are doing and manage / use your clones properly to do decent damage to people. Yes Mesmer’s are difficult to play against, that is the basis of the class, they are meant to be confusing to fight against and turn your abilities against you.

However they are easy to kill once you get used to targeting the player and not the clone, admittedly I don’t do much sPvP but when I have I use the Mark Target button and kill the player, surprisingly easily. If they put confusion on me, I don’t spam my abilities, the phantasms are easy to dodge, avoid and kill, they are ridiculously weak. Some of them like the iWarden don’t even move, you can out range / los the iDuelist, you just have to think a bit about how you fight them.

Firstly, I would say it’s too early to talk balance. Maybe when a lot of people get to the top level and actually get proper builds and learn how to play and what their enemies abilities are, then it would be more appropriate to talk about this.

Other than that, if for example thief gets nerfed, because he does a lot of dmg on sPvP then note that you nerf him on pve/wvw too. So other classes are better on specific situations I suppose to make everyone happy. Thief is more like 1v1 class.

In addition, as a thief you need to trade speed for dmg etc. Most players I faced in sPvP didn’t know how to play their class, I was never slowed and whenever I used shadowstep most of them didn’t even dodge to get away. I had no issues defeating them without even slowing them down first and my movement speed is normal.

So to me that tells me that a lot of people out there need to learn how their class works and what to do against other classes as I said in the beginning.

Also I am pretty confident about ArenaNet in the matter of class balance, I am sure they won’t make the same mistake as Blizzard did, nerfing and buffing each class in every patch making everyone angry.

Agree to OP… guardian is very powerful to

how bout they remove heart seeker and make it like wow and us thieves just stunlock u to death? then i guess they would want a trinket to break the stun which we would put u right back in LOL rogues are tricky in any mmo. Their suppose to kill clothies in secs (thats our main job) and to harass other players and distract them while other team members take a control point or help damage them. In every mmo i’ve play rogues hit hard and fast against pretty much everything but warriors and guardians/paladins. Rogues die fast without ways to go in stealth/leap/blink away/and resist damage for a bit. A rogue fights and vanishes when almost dead to heal and come back to and harass u some more, its what rogues do. Average rogues like me die easy alot, mainly because i don’t wait for the 1vs1 and dive right into the action, but Good rogues in any mmo will dominate or escape every 1vs1 and alot 1vs2 battles and yes the 1 being the rogue.

But in this game with everybody having best gear in the game then its just a matter of people not playing smart with their class or don’t know how to play it. Or they spec wrong and i’ll give u an example i had in last spvp. Elementalists complains to me because i kill him and says rogue is OP, i said not really i can’t take a hit because i only have 14k health. He says he only have 10k health but he hits like a truck…..So am i OP because he specced to be more of a glass cannon than me?

Im just going to throw my 2 cents out there. I feel that for a launch client the professions are balanced okay. Necros could use some help, thiefs and memsers could be brought down a bit to about where they Ele. From talking with a few different competitive streamers, people feel that the ele is where the mesmer and thief should be. However I do not think the Memser and Thief are TOO powerful. There are ways to deal with them if you know how the class works. Mesmers you just need to have Target on a keybind and always be marking the real memser. Thiefs that run stun lock pistolwhip can be tough but the stunned and focused they are easily killed since 90% of thiefs build pure glass cannon.

And also, going into a spvp match and dominating when you first try out a diff class doesnt mean they are op because your crushing. The only place to really judge how a class works is in tPvP. Hot join matches are too chaotic and zergy to really see how well classes perform. 5v5 is a good balance where you can more clearly see the strengths and weaknesses of other players and compositions.

Gibon.1705:

Its funny how people Q_Q on mesmers and thieves. Do you all really build glass cannons so thief/mes can burst you down with 1 combo? Same I can call properly builded necro as OP because its nearly unkillable even in 3v1 and still can do lot of dmg. Never seen mesmers hitting me for more than 5k crit with blurred frenzy and outside that they can do only sustained DPS which can be kited/healed. Same about thieves, not brightest idea how can you get critted for more than 7k. Or ok. If thief is total glass cannon with 14k hp and 2k armor. But then he is completly useless in fights other than 1v1 so its his weakness.
The only opinion here is that warriors need a bit love. I played diffrent classes sPVP and the only one im loosing to mes/thief is warrior. With engi/necro i can beat almost every mes 1v1 and most thieves. On the other hand problem for mes is guardian/SMART ranger/ele if he wipes out all clones with single AOE.
And one more – when you go sPVP you can see a lot kitteny thieves/mesmers. Its a proof that that they are not op, needs some skill to be properly used but people are loosing to them, think they are op and then suck.

Let me point out the hypocrisy in your post:

1. You say the problem is players going glass cannon and getting killed in 1 combo by mesmer and theif, ok.

2. But Mesmer and Thief go glass cannon and can kill other glass cannons in one combo. So that isn’t a problem? Is that ok? Shouldn’t other classes be able to do the exact same? There is no trinity in this game, so saying that Thief should be doing the most damage is irrelevant.

3. Even though they are glass cannon, their array of escapes and illusions buffer the fact that they are glass cannon, so that they are no longer that. Other classes do not have this trickery that allows them to negate being squishy.

Its a stroke of luck to wipe out mesmer clones all at once, since they often space and position themselves where you can’t blow them all up at once. I wouldn’t mind the perma illusion cycle if mesmer were very squishy, however they are not. They can take hits quite well. Maybe they should lower their base health to that of guardian, elementist and thief?

I feel that when one finds the real mesmer they should be rewarded for doing so and the mesmer punished. At this time however, that is not the case. In regards to theif, I think they are fine aside from heartseeker and pistol whip. The damage on those skills are entirely too high. Sure, you can bring up hundred blade warrior but the difference is, hundred blades is very very easily avoided due to its long animation times.

*Posted the same in the thief forum. I think its an easy to pick up hard to master type thing. I can say the same thing about hundred blades. If that is the only thing you use and depend on a good player who has learned how to fight classes will school you if all you do is heartseeker spam.

I play a thief as my main. I understand where some of you are coming from with the heartseeker spam. Its definitely annoying, but I think its just that. On my thief I can easily outplay a heartseeker spammer, and I actually enjoy seeing it because its an obvious sign that the person doesn’t understand how to fully use the class and I take advantage of this.

I also have 4 alts I like to play with. Ranger, Mesmer, Elelmentalist, and Guardian. I have solo’d HS spammers on my ranger and Guardian, but have not encounter any yet with my Ele and Mesmer as they are relatively new. But with Ranger and especially Guard they both have tools to combat HS spam. I have a Guard friend that I play with, and when we were previously shuffled I tried to HS spam him just to test it and I did not win the fight.

Having a thief as my main but also playing other classes I can’t support HS spam or a nerf when I know I can counter it. I think its fantastic that thieves have a gap closer as well as a finisher, where HS shines as a finisher. I think thieves need HS for the nature of the class, but as with hundred blades, if that is the only thing you rely on a skilled player will easily pick you apart.

Prelude.3817:

A few theorycrafting tips for those who defend mesmers:

- Invest 5 points, only 5 yes, into the Illusions trait line (the bottom one) to get “Illusionists celerity”:
——>20% decreased cd on ALL ILLUSION SKILLS.
That includes every weapon skill that creates clones, phantasms,
plus a few Utility skills like Decoy (their main stealth).
Yep, only 5 points. Plus you can cumulate with any weapon specialization, for an additionnal 20%.
That is around 40% cd reduction on any skill creating clones or phantasms.
That’s pretty short in the end, for abilities that are already on a relatively short cd.

- Get gready and get 10 points (yep, only 10) in Domination, the first line, for “Empowered Illusions”:
—->15% damage increase for illusions. Same, affects clones & phantasms.
Clones will barely scratch you anyway, but phantasms…
Not to mention illusions scale with power/crit, so…

In the end as a mesmer you can invest only 15 points to increase your
clone spamming/phantasm damage capability by…A LOT!!!

I’d really like to hear the other “pet classes” opinion on such powerful, cheap investment, traits.

Just to clarify for anyone who thinks otherwise. Illusionary Celerity and the reduce rechange weapon specific do stack, they just don’t change the tooltip cooldown. If you have the countdown on your skill recharge you’d see that.

And to this post, Mesmers have a ton of Phantasm related traits, being they are the main source of our damage this makes sense. You can’t have all of them, not even close. They are in every trait line except maybe Chaos. And some deep into the others. There is a ton of variation. If you do decide to get most of them that leaves you with no toughness. There’s a trade off to it, Mesmer traits are well designed.

Any well played character can give someone else a hard time. If you’re smart you will kill off the Phantasms and and cripple their damage for a bit.

I can’t speak much for thieves as I haven’t spent much time playing them… but in my experience seeing them in action they either get the jump on someone and destroy them, or miss that opportunity and destroyed themselves. Or run away.

I don’t really see a problem. It evens out. There are ways to deal with everything… if you are willing to play that way. There are weaknesses to every build.

Figuring out what they are and reacting appropriately is half the fun.

Ouch.
So we are OP.
Good to know.

We should all just roll a generic warrior to ‘balance’ pvp. Then we’ll see all these posts converted to ‘OMG weapon x is OP compared to weapon y!’

@Aza
1 and 2. If Mesmer/thief goes full glass cannon it has 14k hp. Full glass cannon ele/warion can take it in 2 hits. Tested. So your argument is invaild. The problem is people are just likes numbers over head and go full glass cannon and they lose to hp/toughness builds.
3. and other classes have much more CC options like cripple, stun, knockdown (ele, war, guard, ranger) It is really problem to cripple mes/thief when they are low, trying to vanish? Its only 3 sec. With cripple they won’t run. Profit?
You just need to deal with mes and thief and their trickery. I play PVP as ranger, guardian and engi and dont have real problem with neither mesmer nor thief.

This entire thread is pretty hilarious, because so far, nearly every class is OP, UP, and completely fine.

Playing a thief, its just silly seeing people complain about glass cannon builds. Yes, if you fail to react to a glass cannon, they will destroy you. The margin of error for a glass cannon, however, is slim – if they don’t kill you exceedingly quick, they’re screwed. Dodging, using escape skills, using defense skills, crippling, immobilizing, and weakness are all great, easy ways to put a glass cannon on the defensive immediately (something they’re not built to do so well). I don’t play a glass cannon specifically because they’re so easily and widely countered.

If you eat an entire non-hasted pistol whip, you’re a bad player or you screwed up – the stun only last long enough for 2-3 of the hits to connect, and nearly every non-baddie I’ve ever used it on dodge rolls out of the last 2 swings. If you eat a hasted Pistol whip or 2, your Stun escape is on CD (unlucky, but it happens to all of us), or you’re a baddie and didn’t slot one.

As for HS spam – its unfortunate, but the way thief was designed. ShBow brings so much utility to the table that you’re basically nerfing yourself if you dont have one equipped, so you’re usually restricted to one melee weapon setup. If it happens to be a dagger, HS is your go to skill for damage. In a D/P setup, your other skills are subpar at dealing damage. Shadow shot is a nice utility and gap closer, but its more expensive and does less damage than HS. Your Pistol OH abilities are 100% utility, and do almost no damage. in a D/D setup, DB is useless (for a direct damage spec at least), Dancing dagger is a utility, and cloak and dagger is meh – its super expensive, and any player who’s been playing for more than 10 minutes knows that if a thief stealths near you, you spin around spamming your autoattack, making it hard to get a flanking backstab in, and dealing a nice amount of damage to said thief (Especially glass cannon builds)

As for down states, thief is easy to counter for me – here’s how you do it. Start your kill animation, and when they port away, hit any skill that shadowsteps to the target (Steal, Infilitrator sig, Shadowstep). Dead, confused thief. I’m not 100% up to other classes access to shadowstep like abilities, so maybe that’s only easy for other thieves. If they vanish from sight entirely, just autoattack the area they were in.

Mesmer down state isn’t hard to counter, but it does feel very time consuming. in a one on one, a good mesmer will wait til the very last second to teleport away and stealth – you have to wait for the illusion to appear, then the stealth to wear off, then get to your target and kill it. In 1v1’s, this isn’t hard, it just feels time consuming (but not really any more than thief’s). In a big brawl with multiple players about, it can be quite frustrating. You don’t have time to sit and wait for the mes to reappear, then wait for the REAL mes to reappear, then get to him and kill him. This is all time in which the opposing team could get a kill and rally the mes, or your downed teammates might die (missing their own rally from killing the mes). Maybe (key word here being MAYBE) the length of stealth on Mes’s downed port/stealth/copy skill needs to be reduced a bit. I don’t know for sure, I’m not a playtester.

BlackDeath.7834:

vikramchamp.7450:

Let me just put something into perspective. While I agree that 2 or more thieves in 1 fight can burn a lot of setups, the same goes for 2 of any class. It’s only logical. 2 of something deadly is always deadlier. It just happens that this a burst class. If there was 2 mesmers or 2 guardians, I can guarantee that would be WAY more ridiculous to beat. In fact us thieves would just back the eff off outta there and use another angle. No point giving free points to other team.

Secondly, please do not whine when a thief gets the jump on u and slams u into the ground before u can say howdy doo u do because THATS the point. Thats the 1 thing we are very good for. Now lets assume for a moment that thiefs were not even able to do that. Then what do we do? hopelessly shoot pistols hoping to bleed your entire health bar out pressing the 1 key? Or perhaps hey yeah sure we’ll stick ard for a few minutes getting focused by everyone. The thief is about in>slam>out.

Now playing a thief till rank 10 in sPvP, it is not exactly a walk in the park setting up a jump on just anyone. Plenty times ppl dodge it. Eles (was it?) put up the lightnin shield thing that stops PW from going past the bash. Guardians. well. Lets just say there are plenty guardians out there that know what they are doing. Remember that the moment we miss it, u got us on 2 X 45s CDs (or 36, depending on spec), following which you can then proceed to lock us down and decimate, unless we specced for that extra escape skill. The moment my presence is realised everyone is on me like Comicon opened 1 month early, sheesh. The moment we lose the control we die. Thats how you win a thief.

I would also like to add that for the love of god, it is just September 13th, hold your horses. The more familiar people get with our burst sequences, the harder it gets for us. And no I do not use dual daggers, that does not require brains to play nor does it keep you alive for long in a bigger fight. Plus honestly it is just ridiculous to watch my thief doing HS spam. I run a pistol/dagger with a swap to S/P. For those who would like a heads up, keep ur distance if you see this setup because we can just keep taking the dagger number 5 skill to stealth off you and keep bleeding you out with pistol 1 stealth skill + stab n tele away and shoot skill (3) until our CD’s are over, after which the match is over cos hello here comes S/P > devourer venom + Haste + Steal/number 2 skill + P/W. BOOM.

Lastly, and this is important. 1v1 a thief absolutely does not mean you lose. We do get cut down by some really simple but smart tactics.

Burst sequences? Heartseeker spam isn’t a sequence, silly goose.

Nono the dual dagger line doesn’t have anything to do with sequences anymore haha oops sry a bit messy there

If there are more then 1-2 mesmer in a game its just fu stupid and frustrating…

Pls give mesmer only one illusion make them strong not matter but pls reduce the number of them…

Aza.2105:

Gibon.1705:

-snip-

Let me point out the hypocrisy in your post:

1. You say the problem is players going glass cannon and getting killed in 1 combo by mesmer and theif, ok.

2. But Mesmer and Thief go glass cannon and can kill other glass cannons in one combo. So that isn’t a problem? Is that ok? Shouldn’t other classes be able to do the exact same? There is no trinity in this game, so saying that Thief should be doing the most damage is irrelevant.

3. Even though they are glass cannon, their array of escapes and illusions buffer the fact that they are glass cannon, so that they are no longer that. Other classes do not have this trickery that allows them to negate being squishy.

Its a stroke of luck to wipe out mesmer clones all at once, since they often space and position themselves where you can’t blow them all up at once. I wouldn’t mind the perma illusion cycle if mesmer were very squishy, however they are not. They can take hits quite well. Maybe they should lower their base health to that of guardian, elementist and thief?

I feel that when one finds the real mesmer they should be rewarded for doing so and the mesmer punished. At this time however, that is not the case. In regards to theif, I think they are fine aside from heartseeker and pistol whip. The damage on those skills are entirely too high. Sure, you can bring up hundred blade warrior but the difference is, hundred blades is very very easily avoided due to its long animation times.

You say Mesmer can kill in one “combo”…define combo. I have yet to see that. Consider working some toughness and/or vitality in your build and maybe you won’t get face rolled by a glass cannon on a regular basis.

People say “Learn how to play against a glass cannon thief build” How can you when they have so much mobility and evasiveness.. It’s funny they provide no insight.

BlackDeath.7834:

People say “Learn how to play against a glass cannon thief build” How can you when they have so much mobility and evasiveness.. It’s funny they provide no insight.

It means work on timing your dodge rolls, time your CC, and build with a bit of toughness/vitality. If you step out the gate with 12-15K health and barely any toughness, go ahead and get ready to be cut through like wet toilet paper.

crewthief.8649:

BlackDeath.7834:

People say “Learn how to play against a glass cannon thief build” How can you when they have so much mobility and evasiveness.. It’s funny they provide no insight.

It means work on timing your dodge rolls, time your CC, and build with a bit of toughness/vitality. If you step out the gate with 12-15K health and barely any toughness, go ahead and get ready to be cut through like wet toilet paper.

I’m playing a defensive sword and shield warrior build with 24k health & 1800 toughness and I still get bursted down by thieves, I don’t see your point.

BlackDeath.7834:

crewthief.8649:

BlackDeath.7834:

People say “Learn how to play against a glass cannon thief build” How can you when they have so much mobility and evasiveness.. It’s funny they provide no insight.

It means work on timing your dodge rolls, time your CC, and build with a bit of toughness/vitality. If you step out the gate with 12-15K health and barely any toughness, go ahead and get ready to be cut through like wet toilet paper.

I’m playing a defensive sword and shield warrior build with 24k health & 1800 toughness and I still get bursted down by thieves, I don’t see your point.

Dodge roll? Do you consistently lose 1v1s against Thieves? And what I mean by that is, I see a whole lot of people complaining about being burst down and they’re admittedly running a full on glass cannon build.

crewthief.8649:

BlackDeath.7834:

crewthief.8649:

BlackDeath.7834:

People say “Learn how to play against a glass cannon thief build” How can you when they have so much mobility and evasiveness.. It’s funny they provide no insight.

It means work on timing your dodge rolls, time your CC, and build with a bit of toughness/vitality. If you step out the gate with 12-15K health and barely any toughness, go ahead and get ready to be cut through like wet toilet paper.

I’m playing a defensive sword and shield warrior build with 24k health & 1800 toughness and I still get bursted down by thieves, I don’t see your point.

Dodge roll? Do you consistently lose 1v1s against Thieves? And what I mean by that is, I see a whole lot of people complaining about being burst down and they’re admittedly running a full on glass cannon build.

A burst thief when he pops his thieves guild, yes I do lose 1v1’s to them often because dodge-rolling will only save you for so long, then you’re done for. There’s not much else I can do.

BlackDeath.7834:

crewthief.8649:

BlackDeath.7834:

crewthief.8649:

BlackDeath.7834:

People say “Learn how to play against a glass cannon thief build” How can you when they have so much mobility and evasiveness.. It’s funny they provide no insight.

It means work on timing your dodge rolls, time your CC, and build with a bit of toughness/vitality. If you step out the gate with 12-15K health and barely any toughness, go ahead and get ready to be cut through like wet toilet paper.

I’m playing a defensive sword and shield warrior build with 24k health & 1800 toughness and I still get bursted down by thieves, I don’t see your point.

Dodge roll? Do you consistently lose 1v1s against Thieves? And what I mean by that is, I see a whole lot of people complaining about being burst down and they’re admittedly running a full on glass cannon build.

A burst thief when he pops his thieves guild, yes I do lose 1v1’s to them often because dodge-rolling will only save you for so long, then you’re done for. There’s not much else I can do.

Did you play in the BWEs? How much experience do you have on that character/build? Lack of mobility could possibly be an issue for you. I’m really not trying to patronize you, just curious since I don’t have a huge issue against Theives. Except of course very good players, but then…a great player SHOULD be a challenge on any profession.

It’s comical how people will go to any lengths to defend their profession. Look people, imbalances exist, it’s just a part of playing an MMO. Every MMO on the market has had to deal with the issue, and balancing always comes in one form or another. If there are people that honestly think GW2 is balanced two weeks after release, I have some land to sell you in Florida.

What’s really rich are all these mesmers claiming their class takes so much skill. Isn’t that always the case though; it’s never the profession, but their skill that allows them to have so much success. It’s like the guy driving a Ferrari who thinks it was his skill behind the wheel that allowed him to dust a Prius.

Unfortunately for these people, in GW2, we can all quickly roll another class to test it out, so their exclusive little club isn’t so exclusive.

I’ve put quite a few hours into playing all the professions except necro and guardian. From my experience, mesmer is a walk in the park; they’re not nearly as high skill as you people would like to think. Elementalist and engineer are both much harder to become proficient at. Mesmer is OP, it’s not even something that should be up for debate for anyone with an objective perspective.

Thief on the other hand is a tougher nut to crack. Yes, I’ve been taken from 17k health down to almost nothing before their animation even appears on the screen, this is obviously broken. However, when playing a thief, I’ll barely scratch a guardian and he will turn around and one shot me. So somehow their damage needs to be toned down on low armor classes, while being given more passive survivability, or something to that effect.

Thiefs Guild is OP though, this is like an “I Win” button without LOS. I can’t count how many times I’ve gotten a thief down to ~25% health and he stealths, pulls out his pets, and I watch my health melt because i just blew all my cds on thief. I would like to see this ability adjusted also.

I just honestly can’t figure why you would call the thief OP.

If you break it down to the basics, look at the thief’s role in PvP. Should you not know this, it’s bursting down players, and most preferably, the glasscannons of the other side.

The entire initiative system is build around this simple role, and stating that the thief is too strong because of the heartseeker spam, is insane. Yes you can spam it a couple of times untill you are out of initiative, yet if you are countered (Which can be done easily) you are out of initiative and then the thief’s burst is over.

This is exactly the reason why thieves are easily countered by higher armored classes (Without glasscannon builds obv.) like the guardian, warrior and even necromancers if traited and geared the right way.

I’m even having my doubts about some thief skills while downed if I can state my honest opinion. In one of the earliest beta’s I’ve been in , the thief had the move ability, combined with his stealth one, which gave them another skill. Yet mesmer’s have one skill, to move, stealth and spawn a clone of themselves. Although they have this, it’s not hard to counter them, and apart from the moa skill, the mesmer is fine.

Also saying that thieves that spam HS deal to much damage for the skill required is stupid, a smart thief won’t spam HS because without initiative you’re pretty much screwed against smart opponents. If a thief keeps killing you without you being able to do anything, you might have to watch at your own playstyle at this moment instead of the power of the thieves.

EDIT: Not to forget, the engineers. People have been complaining about them being underpowered, but of all the classes in the game, the engineer is simply one of the higher skilled classes, if not the highest. I will even go to the point of saying that thieves are not that hard to play, yet everyone knows the best players with any class, be it high or low skilled, are still skilled players themselves.

xTiMMeHx.5496:

I just honestly can’t figure why you would call the thief OP.

If you break it down to the basics, look at the thief’s role in PvP. Should you not know this, it’s bursting down players, and most preferably, the glasscannons of the other side.

The entire initiative system is build around this simple role, and stating that the thief is too strong because of the heartseeker spam, is insane. Yes you can spam it a couple of times untill you are out of initiative, yet if you are countered (Which can be done easily) you are out of initiative and then the thief’s burst is over.

This is exactly the reason why thieves are easily countered by higher armored classes (Without glasscannon builds obv.) like the guardian, warrior and even necromancers if traited and geared the right way.

I’m even having my doubts about some thief skills while downed if I can state my honest opinion. In one of the earliest beta’s I’ve been in , the thief had the move ability, combined with his stealth one, which gave them another skill. Yet mesmer’s have one skill, to move, stealth and spawn a clone of themselves. Although they have this, it’s not hard to counter them, and apart from the moa skill, the mesmer is fine.

Also saying that thieves that spam HS deal to much damage for the skill required is stupid, a smart thief won’t spam HS because without initiative you’re pretty much screwed against smart opponents. If a thief keeps killing you without you being able to do anything, you might have to watch at your own playstyle at this moment instead of the power of the thieves.

EDIT: Not to forget, the engineers. People have been complaining about them being underpowered, but of all the classes in the game, the engineer is simply one of the higher skilled classes, if not the highest. I will even go to the point of saying that thieves are not that hard to play, yet everyone knows the best players with any class, be it high or low skilled, are still skilled players themselves.

Please tell me how you counter a pistol whip thief with thieves guild up & quickness at his disposal, regardless of class? Thanks. You obviously play a thief yourself.

mesmers definatley put out more damage for how much survivability they have. It takes so long to kill a mesmer, even in their downed state. Where as an elementilist does moderate damage with no survivablility except for using the vapour escape skill.

For thieves, pistol whip is extremely OP, heart seeker not so much. If you get a thief opening on you with heartseeker, you know you will win, but pistolwhip just wrecks anybody on their own. The downed state of thieves is annoying, but not overly strong, like the mesmers. the once thief uses the stealth and port, its over for him.

GUARDIANS oh my god, they can dps, tank, heal all in one kitten build, 1v1 is kitten impossible with someone who knows what they are doing, that needs a big look at.

BlackDeath.7834:

xTiMMeHx.5496:

I just honestly can’t figure why you would call the thief OP.

If you break it down to the basics, look at the thief’s role in PvP. Should you not know this, it’s bursting down players, and most preferably, the glasscannons of the other side.

The entire initiative system is build around this simple role, and stating that the thief is too strong because of the heartseeker spam, is insane. Yes you can spam it a couple of times untill you are out of initiative, yet if you are countered (Which can be done easily) you are out of initiative and then the thief’s burst is over.

This is exactly the reason why thieves are easily countered by higher armored classes (Without glasscannon builds obv.) like the guardian, warrior and even necromancers if traited and geared the right way.

I’m even having my doubts about some thief skills while downed if I can state my honest opinion. In one of the earliest beta’s I’ve been in , the thief had the move ability, combined with his stealth one, which gave them another skill. Yet mesmer’s have one skill, to move, stealth and spawn a clone of themselves. Although they have this, it’s not hard to counter them, and apart from the moa skill, the mesmer is fine.

Also saying that thieves that spam HS deal to much damage for the skill required is stupid, a smart thief won’t spam HS because without initiative you’re pretty much screwed against smart opponents. If a thief keeps killing you without you being able to do anything, you might have to watch at your own playstyle at this moment instead of the power of the thieves.

EDIT: Not to forget, the engineers. People have been complaining about them being underpowered, but of all the classes in the game, the engineer is simply one of the higher skilled classes, if not the highest. I will even go to the point of saying that thieves are not that hard to play, yet everyone knows the best players with any class, be it high or low skilled, are still skilled players themselves.

Please tell me how you counter a pistol whip thief with thieves guild up & quickness at his disposal, regardless of class? Thanks. You obviously play a thief yourself.

1. Yes I do play a thief myself, yet I also play a guardian and looking between those classes, the guardian has the most favorable spot, dealing a bit less damage, for a ton more survivability.
2. In this situation, you are looking at a thief who uses his Elite skill, and his utility skill for quickness. How do you counter this? Simple, don’t be a glasscannon. If you are a glasscannon, you deserve to be downed because that’s the thiefs role.

Also, almost every class has some kind of stun breaking ability, or even something which makes them take no damage at all.

I made a mesmer exclusively for PvP. I think they are the premier PvP class right now, they put anyone playing against one in a difficult position. Fight the mesmer, take too much damage from phantasms, or fight phantasms and take damage from the mesmer? They have a lot of escapes, ultility, versatility, damage and infuriating conditions like daze and confusion, as well as straight up stun.

I understand that mesmers are traditionally that kind of class, but the damage that accompanies this seems a little high. I’ve only been playing mesmer in PvP for a few days, but there’s barely any classes/specs that I can’t beat 1v1 or hold a point against easily. When I do, it’s usually my mistake and not the fault of the mesmer class/spec. They just have so many tools, so much CC and they force their opponent into difficult, sometimes impossible situations.

I stopped playing my guardian because at the end of the day It felt like a class that was pigeon holed into support. And it’s true, guardians don’t have straight up abilities or a weapon set that doesn’t have support built into it. I never liked the idea of healers or support, so I moved on to mesmer for PvP. Mesmers have it way too good at this point.

xTiMMeHx.5496:

BlackDeath.7834:

xTiMMeHx.5496:

I just honestly can’t figure why you would call the thief OP.

If you break it down to the basics, look at the thief’s role in PvP. Should you not know this, it’s bursting down players, and most preferably, the glasscannons of the other side.

The entire initiative system is build around this simple role, and stating that the thief is too strong because of the heartseeker spam, is insane. Yes you can spam it a couple of times untill you are out of initiative, yet if you are countered (Which can be done easily) you are out of initiative and then the thief’s burst is over.

This is exactly the reason why thieves are easily countered by higher armored classes (Without glasscannon builds obv.) like the guardian, warrior and even necromancers if traited and geared the right way.

I’m even having my doubts about some thief skills while downed if I can state my honest opinion. In one of the earliest beta’s I’ve been in , the thief had the move ability, combined with his stealth one, which gave them another skill. Yet mesmer’s have one skill, to move, stealth and spawn a clone of themselves. Although they have this, it’s not hard to counter them, and apart from the moa skill, the mesmer is fine.

Also saying that thieves that spam HS deal to much damage for the skill required is stupid, a smart thief won’t spam HS because without initiative you’re pretty much screwed against smart opponents. If a thief keeps killing you without you being able to do anything, you might have to watch at your own playstyle at this moment instead of the power of the thieves.

EDIT: Not to forget, the engineers. People have been complaining about them being underpowered, but of all the classes in the game, the engineer is simply one of the higher skilled classes, if not the highest. I will even go to the point of saying that thieves are not that hard to play, yet everyone knows the best players with any class, be it high or low skilled, are still skilled players themselves.

Please tell me how you counter a pistol whip thief with thieves guild up & quickness at his disposal, regardless of class? Thanks. You obviously play a thief yourself.

1. Yes I do play a thief myself, yet I also play a guardian and looking between those classes, the guardian has the most favorable spot, dealing a bit less damage, for a ton more survivability.
2. In this situation, you are looking at a thief who uses his Elite skill, and his utility skill for quickness. How do you counter this? Simple, don’t be a glasscannon. If you are a glasscannon, you deserve to be downed because that’s the thiefs role.

Also, almost every class has some kind of stun breaking ability, or even something which makes them take no damage at all.

Guardian is the only class that have a high chance against a skilled thief, I play a 23k/24k health 1700 toughness sword/shield warrior, I get brought down by thiefs and mesmers, and a good engineer here and there, You want to break the stun? Alright, he will pistol whip you again right after hes racerolling with quickness active, “Don’t be a glasscannon” is a terrible argument.

BlackDeath.7834:

xTiMMeHx.5496:

BlackDeath.7834:

xTiMMeHx.5496:

I just honestly can’t figure why you would call the thief OP.

If you break it down to the basics, look at the thief’s role in PvP. Should you not know this, it’s bursting down players, and most preferably, the glasscannons of the other side.

The entire initiative system is build around this simple role, and stating that the thief is too strong because of the heartseeker spam, is insane. Yes you can spam it a couple of times untill you are out of initiative, yet if you are countered (Which can be done easily) you are out of initiative and then the thief’s burst is over.

This is exactly the reason why thieves are easily countered by higher armored classes (Without glasscannon builds obv.) like the guardian, warrior and even necromancers if traited and geared the right way.

I’m even having my doubts about some thief skills while downed if I can state my honest opinion. In one of the earliest beta’s I’ve been in , the thief had the move ability, combined with his stealth one, which gave them another skill. Yet mesmer’s have one skill, to move, stealth and spawn a clone of themselves. Although they have this, it’s not hard to counter them, and apart from the moa skill, the mesmer is fine.

Also saying that thieves that spam HS deal to much damage for the skill required is stupid, a smart thief won’t spam HS because without initiative you’re pretty much screwed against smart opponents. If a thief keeps killing you without you being able to do anything, you might have to watch at your own playstyle at this moment instead of the power of the thieves.

EDIT: Not to forget, the engineers. People have been complaining about them being underpowered, but of all the classes in the game, the engineer is simply one of the higher skilled classes, if not the highest. I will even go to the point of saying that thieves are not that hard to play, yet everyone knows the best players with any class, be it high or low skilled, are still skilled players themselves.

Please tell me how you counter a pistol whip thief with thieves guild up & quickness at his disposal, regardless of class? Thanks. You obviously play a thief yourself.

1. Yes I do play a thief myself, yet I also play a guardian and looking between those classes, the guardian has the most favorable spot, dealing a bit less damage, for a ton more survivability.
2. In this situation, you are looking at a thief who uses his Elite skill, and his utility skill for quickness. How do you counter this? Simple, don’t be a glasscannon. If you are a glasscannon, you deserve to be downed because that’s the thiefs role.

Also, almost every class has some kind of stun breaking ability, or even something which makes them take no damage at all.

Guardian is the only class that have a high chance against a skilled thief, I play a 23k/24k health 1700 toughness sword/shield warrior, I get brought down by thiefs and mesmers, and a good engineer here and there, You want to break the stun? Alright, he will pistol whip you against right after hes racerolling with quickness active, “Don’t be a glasscannon” is a terrible argument.

The only reason Guardians have a good chance against thieves is their toughness combined with heals (most likely from monk’s meditation). There’s nothing that can save you against a proper pistol whipping, but meditation guardian does well against most thieves because it shuts down heartseekers execution mechanic by keeping the health of the guardian high enough until the thief runs out of initiative. Of course, then the thief either stealths or switches to bow at which point it’s a waste of time to follow them.

In short, screw off thieves. You already have the best mobility in the game.

BlackDeath.7834:

Guardian is the only class that have a high chance against a skilled thief, I play a 23k/24k health 1700 toughness sword/shield warrior, I get brought down by thiefs and mesmers, and a good engineer here and there, You want to break the stun? Alright, he will pistol whip you against right after hes racerolling with quickness active, “Don’t be a glasscannon” is a terrible argument.

Would it be better for me to say that you in this case, should use your skills better? Maybe you should pick your utility skills specificly for HS’ing/PW’ing thieves if this counters you that hard.

Yes Pistol whip is extremely strong, yet it does not stun you for the entire duration and it costs 5 initiative. 5 Initiative is half of your bar, let’s say that with a decent build and traits you can use it 3 times in a very short duration.

You as a warrior with your shield, have a skill which makes you invulnerable for (?) 5 seconds? Use it, then start walking / dodging away from the thief. If the thief wants to catch up with you he will use the infiltrator’s strike, since he will most likely use steal to have the first gap closed (it will cost initiative if he doesn’t).

Infiltrator’s strike is another 3 Initiative, with our pool of 10, this is a severe drain, especially after you use PW (Total cost of 8 initiative, and lets say you regen 2-3 in this time) Which gives you 5-6 Ini. This is enough for one more pistol whip, and then you are completely out of it, leaving you open to any counterattacks.

Looking at other points:

Thieves are a very strong 1v1 class, to assume you are able to beat a thief 1v1 because you have 24k HP, is a terrible argument. Since it depends on your own skill aswell, and the skill of the thief. However, I can tell you, the thieves that burst you down, with 24k HP are glasscannons themselves, with no survivability. That shiny 3 adrenaline bar skill thing of warriors with the greatsword, will finish him almost inmediatly, rest assured of that.
Also, look at thieves in group fights. You have barely no area of effect with the Pistol Whip setup and it relies on the stupidity of the opponents, to stand within your attack from pistol whip. Also there are no decent escape skills in this setup without utility skills.

Also do not forget your first sentence:
“Guardian is the only class that have a high chance against a skilled thief.”’
A skilled thief.
Yes, if a guardian and thief would come in a 1v1 against eachother, and both are equally skilled, I dare to say that the guardian will win the fight, just as much as I can tell you, that if the thief has a decent initiate on any other class , whilst both are equally skilled, the thief will win. The reason why is stated above, the thief is a 1v1 class with very low Area of effect abilities in general. (Yes, we have Death Blossom which is one of the only decent aoe skills with melee weapons).

I highly disagree that mesmers are too powerful..

Infact, their first skill on all weapons is very lacking in terms of damage. As for phantasms, they do do a ton of damage, but can be killed off extremely easily. Clones = Useless. 0 damage, nearly 0 HP. (except for deception, which is perfectly fine considering that what they are for, but even then, it’s easy to find the real mesmer considering they would be moving around and actually using more than 1 skill) Also, 3 illusions isn’t that much at all.. IMO, they need some improving.

Nofe.7269:

BlackDeath.7834:

xTiMMeHx.5496:

BlackDeath.7834:

xTiMMeHx.5496:

I just honestly can’t figure why you would call the thief OP.

If you break it down to the basics, look at the thief’s role in PvP. Should you not know this, it’s bursting down players, and most preferably, the glasscannons of the other side.

The entire initiative system is build around this simple role, and stating that the thief is too strong because of the heartseeker spam, is insane. Yes you can spam it a couple of times untill you are out of initiative, yet if you are countered (Which can be done easily) you are out of initiative and then the thief’s burst is over.

This is exactly the reason why thieves are easily countered by higher armored classes (Without glasscannon builds obv.) like the guardian, warrior and even necromancers if traited and geared the right way.

I’m even having my doubts about some thief skills while downed if I can state my honest opinion. In one of the earliest beta’s I’ve been in , the thief had the move ability, combined with his stealth one, which gave them another skill. Yet mesmer’s have one skill, to move, stealth and spawn a clone of themselves. Although they have this, it’s not hard to counter them, and apart from the moa skill, the mesmer is fine.

Also saying that thieves that spam HS deal to much damage for the skill required is stupid, a smart thief won’t spam HS because without initiative you’re pretty much screwed against smart opponents. If a thief keeps killing you without you being able to do anything, you might have to watch at your own playstyle at this moment instead of the power of the thieves.

EDIT: Not to forget, the engineers. People have been complaining about them being underpowered, but of all the classes in the game, the engineer is simply one of the higher skilled classes, if not the highest. I will even go to the point of saying that thieves are not that hard to play, yet everyone knows the best players with any class, be it high or low skilled, are still skilled players themselves.

Please tell me how you counter a pistol whip thief with thieves guild up & quickness at his disposal, regardless of class? Thanks. You obviously play a thief yourself.

1. Yes I do play a thief myself, yet I also play a guardian and looking between those classes, the guardian has the most favorable spot, dealing a bit less damage, for a ton more survivability.
2. In this situation, you are looking at a thief who uses his Elite skill, and his utility skill for quickness. How do you counter this? Simple, don’t be a glasscannon. If you are a glasscannon, you deserve to be downed because that’s the thiefs role.

Also, almost every class has some kind of stun breaking ability, or even something which makes them take no damage at all.

Guardian is the only class that have a high chance against a skilled thief, I play a 23k/24k health 1700 toughness sword/shield warrior, I get brought down by thiefs and mesmers, and a good engineer here and there, You want to break the stun? Alright, he will pistol whip you against right after hes racerolling with quickness active, “Don’t be a glasscannon” is a terrible argument.

The only reason Guardians have a good chance against thieves is their toughness combined with heals (most likely from monk’s meditation). There’s nothing that can save you against a proper pistol whipping, but meditation guardian does well against most thieves because it shuts down heartseekers execution mechanic by keeping the health of the guardian high enough until the thief runs out of initiative. Of course, then the thief either stealths or switches to bow at which point it’s a waste of time to follow them.

In short, screw off thieves. You already have the best mobility in the game.

Yeah, I have to agree with you that the thief probably has the most mobility ingame, but don’t forget this will take utility slots, or cost initiative, which makes it very limited after a quick burst attack on players.

xTiMMeHx.5496:

BlackDeath.7834:

Guardian is the only class that have a high chance against a skilled thief, I play a 23k/24k health 1700 toughness sword/shield warrior, I get brought down by thiefs and mesmers, and a good engineer here and there, You want to break the stun? Alright, he will pistol whip you against right after hes racerolling with quickness active, “Don’t be a glasscannon” is a terrible argument.

Would it be better for me to say that you in this case, should use your skills better? Maybe you should pick your utility skills specificly for HS’ing/PW’ing thieves if this counters you that hard.

Yes Pistol whip is extremely strong, yet it does not stun you for the entire duration and it costs 5 initiative. 5 Initiative is half of your bar, let’s say that with a decent build and traits you can use it 3 times in a very short duration.

You as a warrior with your shield, have a skill which makes you invulnerable for (?) 5 seconds? Use it, then start walking / dodging away from the thief. If the thief wants to catch up with you he will use the infiltrator’s strike, since he will most likely use steal to have the first gap closed (it will cost initiative if he doesn’t).

Infiltrator’s strike is another 3 Initiative, with our pool of 10, this is a severe drain, especially after you use PW (Total cost of 8 initiative, and lets say you regen 2-3 in this time) Which gives you 5-6 Ini. This is enough for one more pistol whip, and then you are completely out of it, leaving you open to any counterattacks.

Looking at other points:

Thieves are a very strong 1v1 class, to assume you are able to beat a thief 1v1 because you have 24k HP, is a terrible argument. Since it depends on your own skill aswell, and the skill of the thief. However, I can tell you, the thieves that burst you down, with 24k HP are glasscannons themselves, with no survivability. That shiny 3 adrenaline bar skill thing of warriors with the greatsword, will finish him almost inmediatly, rest assured of that.
Also, look at thieves in group fights. You have barely no area of effect with the Pistol Whip setup and it relies on the stupidity of the opponents, to stand within your attack from pistol whip. Also there are no decent escape skills in this setup without utility skills.

Also do not forget your first sentance:
“Guardian is the only class that have a high chance against a skilled thief.”’
A skilled thief.
Yes, if a guardian and thief would come in a 1v1 against eachother, and both are equally skilled, I dare to say that the guardian will win the fight, just as much as I can tell you, that if the thief has a decent initiate on any other class , whilst both are equally skilled, the thief will win. The reason why is stated above, the thief is a 1v1 class with very low Area of effect abilities in general. (Yes, we have Death Blossom which is one of the only decent aoe skills with melee weapons).

In the time his initiative is down from hitting me over and over with pistol whip, he can steal from me and get whirling axe (which he gets 4/5 times from stealing from a warrior) And I can’t do anything while he’s spinning around and taking about 6k health away from me, and in that time his initiative is built back up and hes back to square one, what now?

BlackDeath.7834:

xTiMMeHx.5496:

BlackDeath.7834:

Guardian is the only class that have a high chance against a skilled thief, I play a 23k/24k health 1700 toughness sword/shield warrior, I get brought down by thiefs and mesmers, and a good engineer here and there, You want to break the stun? Alright, he will pistol whip you against right after hes racerolling with quickness active, “Don’t be a glasscannon” is a terrible argument.

Would it be better for me to say that you in this case, should use your skills better? Maybe you should pick your utility skills specificly for HS’ing/PW’ing thieves if this counters you that hard.

Yes Pistol whip is extremely strong, yet it does not stun you for the entire duration and it costs 5 initiative. 5 Initiative is half of your bar, let’s say that with a decent build and traits you can use it 3 times in a very short duration.

You as a warrior with your shield, have a skill which makes you invulnerable for (?) 5 seconds? Use it, then start walking / dodging away from the thief. If the thief wants to catch up with you he will use the infiltrator’s strike, since he will most likely use steal to have the first gap closed (it will cost initiative if he doesn’t).

Infiltrator’s strike is another 3 Initiative, with our pool of 10, this is a severe drain, especially after you use PW (Total cost of 8 initiative, and lets say you regen 2-3 in this time) Which gives you 5-6 Ini. This is enough for one more pistol whip, and then you are completely out of it, leaving you open to any counterattacks.

Looking at other points:

Thieves are a very strong 1v1 class, to assume you are able to beat a thief 1v1 because you have 24k HP, is a terrible argument. Since it depends on your own skill aswell, and the skill of the thief. However, I can tell you, the thieves that burst you down, with 24k HP are glasscannons themselves, with no survivability. That shiny 3 adrenaline bar skill thing of warriors with the greatsword, will finish him almost inmediatly, rest assured of that.
Also, look at thieves in group fights. You have barely no area of effect with the Pistol Whip setup and it relies on the stupidity of the opponents, to stand within your attack from pistol whip. Also there are no decent escape skills in this setup without utility skills.

Also do not forget your first sentance:
“Guardian is the only class that have a high chance against a skilled thief.”’
A skilled thief.
Yes, if a guardian and thief would come in a 1v1 against eachother, and both are equally skilled, I dare to say that the guardian will win the fight, just as much as I can tell you, that if the thief has a decent initiate on any other class , whilst both are equally skilled, the thief will win. The reason why is stated above, the thief is a 1v1 class with very low Area of effect abilities in general. (Yes, we have Death Blossom which is one of the only decent aoe skills with melee weapons).

In the time his initiative is down from hitting me over and over with pistol whip, he can steal from me and get whirling axe (which he gets 4/5 times from stealing from a warrior) And I can’t do anything while he’s spinning around and taking about 6k health away from me, and in that time his initiative is built back up and hes back to square one, what now?

You roll away from him while using the spinning axe attack? You use some burst skill on the thief yourself which bursts harder?

Also, take a look at this video, it will probably brighten up your knowledge of the exact cost it has for a thief, to burst you down.

yes, right now Mesmer and Thief are the two classes inherently better than the others. Even their downed state abilities are better >.<

BlackDeath.7834:

whinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhine…

Opinions?

opinions? all you whiners are scrubs.

Candiru.5279:

If there are more then 1-2 mesmer in a game its just fu stupid and frustrating…

Pls give mesmer only one illusion make them strong not matter but pls reduce the number of them…

playing a mesmer as main myself, i would appreciate that. I instantly would take one strong illusion over 3 clones that get aoe nuked in 1 sec.

I think Mesmers are VERY close to be in order with other classes. Their combination of confusion (which comes from multiple sources and can stack) + strong dmg output (1 illusionary attack hitting for 9k)+ multiple stealths (stealth still allows the caster to start casting before they fully become visible) just makes them unbalanced when compared to other classes.

Thief is very close to being a great dmg class with high mobility (teleports/stealth). The problem comes in their ability to spam a finisher that hits for 9k+ when the target’s health is low and that leaps them to target. Anyone who says thief is squishy needs to take into consideration that hp/toughness is not the only form of dmg mitigation. Teleports, Stealth, and blinds are all very effective means of dmg mitigation. Again, i am ok with them having a combination of high dmg and high utility, but giving them dmg bonus on health% and a leap to target… that is just giving them too much in one ability.

It’s clearly obvious the thief and mesmer players here …

If you can’t fight a mesmer you can’t play, period. It is incredibly easy to identify the player and mesmers do relatively low damage. Thieves on the other hand…

Mesmers are absurd. I can respect A-net’s decision to hold off on balance changes until the game stabilizes, but mesmers are just cut-and-dry broken.

It’s simple, they have too much of everything – damage, cc, and survivability. They kill you as fast as a glass cannon build of any other class, while bringing plenty of cc with their various dazes, confusion, etc. and moa, the most ball-breakingly overpowered cc in the game. For all of this, they do not have to sacrifice survivability at all, as they blink around, stealth, and disorient everyone with clones everywhere, particularly in any engagement larger than a 1v1, making it fairly difficult to even attack them at all, much less catch them if they try to run.

If they’re going to nerf heartseeker as quickly as they did, they seriously need to do something about mesmers too, because now they stand alone as by far the best pvp class.

If you are talking half the traits that dont work at all or dont stack with other traits then yes mesmer are broken.

Yeah, why can’t I have fury AND retaliation on my phantasms? It’s so broken oO

They kill you as fast as a glass cannon build of any other class,

LuL wut, only time I ever gibbed someone it was because I dropped a feedback over a glass cannon pistol thief and he destroyed himself.