Guild Wars 2

Why are we forced by Anet to use meta builds? Why they cut the class diversity to 1build/class? Why I have to be exactly like others? I hate meta builds and i always tried not to use them. I had a few options before the patch (not too much) but now the choices reduced to 1. Why Anet reduces build options constantly since GW1?
Why celestial amulet is still in pvp? At least get this thing out of the game and dont force everybody to use it. Let ppl be creative.

Celestial is only meta on a single class, its not really what does the trick.
Edit: well, two

Yep, Meta on Ele and Necro. And there it is fine because it fits perfect to what the class want to do. Or with the special Build.
You also can play much more offensiv versions or even much more tanky builds. Also conditions are possible. I dont think its like you say. You can play more then just the Meta. But the Meta builds are strong and work good togehter with other Meta Builds.

Bazooka.3590:

Why Anet reduces build options constantly since GW1?

You and I remember GW1 very differently. GW1 had more build options than GW2, yes, but in top PvP or in speed-runs in PvE, there was a very restrictive meta. In fact, in all games with build options there is a meta.

Why celestial amulet is still in pvp? At least get this thing out of the game and dont force everybody to use it. Let ppl be creative.

No one is forcing you.

This post…

Wow…
Haha..

Please give a scenario where u fight by not countering an other class mechanics and win.

There will only be one and unique optimized build for every situation. Thus, whatever ArenaNet do, there will allways be a Meta. But no one is forcing you to play it. And there is a kitten load of viable builds for every class (for example bunker/condi guard, D/D or Staff Ele…).

Stop overreacting, and start thinking a bit

Cele amu give 4480 stat points and berserker 4 example is only 3000 thats why.
And yes if u are a necro or an ele u are forced to use it cause u dont have anhoter build option if you wanna win a fight.
And yes there are kitten loads of unviable viable builds. Well not too much since the new trait system..

GrandHaven.1052:

This post…

Wow…
Haha..

Ty 4 the constuctive post.

Anet isn’t forcing you to do anything. You are free to choose what builds you run.

Meta just means most effective in a given role. If you want to maximize your effectiveness and use meta builds provided by the community that is your choice. Anet doesn’t decide what is and is not meta, we do.

A-net isn’t really forcing you to play this builds but to say that they have no influence whatsoever isn’t quite right either. They are constant balance changes and as of june 23 an complete overhaul. It thier balance changes which will naturally incite a reaction. Some balance changes can make entire trait line useless, some of them empower them. A-net is not completely blameless here. However it’s still your choice to not play the meta builds. Actually I don’t play with the meta. And used to play with the celestial shout guard pre jun 23 patch few weeks before. I might not be the first maby i am, but I consider myself one of the few that made it viable and allowed it to bunker and deal both decent damage at the same time, either way i consider it mine. Pre june 23 it was not seen around. that much and many guardians were often med guardians or ah bunker guardians.

I also have a friend that has a mesmer that gives even more boons then PU. and can somehow provide it’sparties with tons of boons. And yet be viable in PvP.

It’s not impossible to fight without meta builds. It’s just very hard to do so. And even if they are. builds on the same tier of the meta. They aren’t often showcased. Often due to our own choices to stay in the dark.

Ok, first to the math with Berserker and Cele. Are you serious. I can take some numbers and then something is op?
NO
If i wanna play a PowerNecro Cele is no option. If i play a CondiNecro Cele is no option.
If this is your argument every class has to play cele. Just because it gives you more stats in total then the other.

No, the Reason why D/D Ele or Signet Necromancer take Cele ist because they can make a use of everything that is given and also are able to gain enough might to deal decent damage.

So, the result is still that you are not forced to play a Metabuild or even celestial. You can choose.

Bazooka.3590:

GrandHaven.1052:

This post…

Wow…
Haha..

Ty 4 the constuctive post.

I did read quite a few posts of you and the general topic is always a qq about how anet does everything wrong and you will stop to play the game, etc. All those qqs are very strange and dont reflect the average opinion of the community (like the qq about cele monthes after the cele meta ended). So I can undersand Grand Havens post, its about the same constructive level as yours.

It’s true that at this point, unless you are playing the build off metabattle, with the prescribed skill rotations you are going to be stomped.

The OP is right, for most classes there’s really only one build that’s appropriate to take into pvp and that is not healthy for the game.

Tux kitten inguin.3049:

Bazooka.3590:

GrandHaven.1052:

This post…

Wow…
Haha..

Ty 4 the constuctive post.

I did read quite a few posts of you and the general topic is always a qq about how anet does everything wrong and you will stop to play the game, etc. All those qqs are very strange and dont reflect the average opinion of the community (like the qq about cele monthes after the cele meta ended). So I can undersand Grand Havens post, its about the same constructive level as yours.

Thanks for watching my forum activites so closely. Its honors me, but its won’t make GW2 a better game. This forums purpose for the devs to get some feedback on their product. Im writing my feedback and you writnig nothing.
Im a gw player for 10 years now so i have the right to write down my opinion i think whether u like it or not. Its really hard to see this game getting worse and worse thats why im writing.

Can you tell me about ANY game that doesn’t have a meta?

Ofcourse there will be always a meta for all the builds. The problem is the new trait system cut your choises down absolutely.
And if im evil i have to think they cut it down to make us buy Hot to get back our nerfed builds. But i dont want to believe this.

Farzo.8410:

Can you tell me about ANY game that doesn’t have a meta?

Any game? A fps game doesn’t have it :|.

Gw2 would be true inovative if could get reed of the meta mentality and made more stuff available to battle, since they got rid of the WTB healer, and this would make also more gear work with classes instead most of the stat gear is useless.

if we got 50% or more of the armor stat combos deleted game would not feel its difference.

Aeolus.3615:

Farzo.8410:

Can you tell me about ANY game that doesn’t have a meta?

Any game? A fps game doesn’t have it :|.

I’m not an FPS guy but I find it hard to believe that there aren’t weapons that are simply better or more frequently used than other weapons.

Bazooka, I didnt look up your personal posts and I am not following you around here. I just remember most of the stuff i read and i read here a lot.
I dont agree on your point and it is also very important to get feedback on your feedback. I just dislike all the people qqing around without any contructive ideas for changes. Most times those changes suggested would destroy the general game design. Pls dont think about only your games and playstyle but the game in general, the differences between tiers and stuff like this.
I dont see meta wars, I even disagree with the meta in some points when it comes to pugging. If you play full premade you can also change a lot and switch the jobs. All classes have at least 3 builds that are valid though all tiers. Thief is an exception ( I still see only one valid build, altough some talk about pp beeing good, still I cannot bring it to value and i havent seen anybody do yet) and I agree that it needs rework time. But i also disagree to thief is dead posts, i still play it against good players with success.
Every game with pvp has a meta, nothing to do about it. The fact that it changes without balance patches shows also, meta is about playstyles and its not always the best way to play it. Think about shoutbow dropping out of meta, comming back and than switching to shield without any changing. Also the mantra mesmer dropped rapidly out of the meta builds before they patches the mantra cds. still thhose old builds can be used with great succes, even if not considered meta anymore. Often its just a build a popular streamer is using.
Feedback should be in a way a balance team can use it and should be consitent to what is happening in the game.
When they changed the trait system i was also disappointed, i agree there. It was more flexible before, but ppl got used to it and its fine imo. Meta is made by the players and not only the game design and its not hard to play good builds that are not on metabattle.

Farzo.8410:

Can you tell me about ANY game that doesn’t have a meta?

A meta like GW2’s meta?

Chess.

rennlc.7346:

Farzo.8410:

Can you tell me about ANY game that doesn’t have a meta?

A meta like GW2’s meta?

Chess.

As there is only 1 option for each player to pick in chess and you can’t customize your board, you can’t really compare the 2.

witcher.3197:

rennlc.7346:

Farzo.8410:

Can you tell me about ANY game that doesn’t have a meta?

A meta like GW2’s meta?

Chess.

As there is only 1 options for each player in chess to play, you can’t really compare the 2.

closer to rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock.

So is this where I QQ because I can’t use my brain powers to craft a build that competes with the ones from metabattle.com?

You’re not forced to run anything, there are plenty of viable builds outside the highest tier of coordinated pvp that you can succeed with, and of course you could actually ‘creatively’ craft your own (in the same way many players discovered the meta builds in the past). Be a bit more open-minded.

I can understand complaints about poor design in certain popular builds, but complaining about people gunning for the most effective builds doesn’t make sense. There will always be a meta, regardless of how many options there are, no matter the game, as long as it is competitive enough. All we can hope for is that a meta develops in a way in which active skill is much more prevalent over forgiving passive and rotational gameplay.

Bazooka.3590:

Cele amu give 4480 stat points and berserker 4 example is only 3000 thats why.
And yes if u are a necro or an ele u are forced to use it cause u dont have anhoter build option if you wanna win a fight.
And yes there are kitten loads of unviable viable builds. Well not too much since the new trait system..

Did you just say necro’s only have one viable build and that’s celestial? Lol wow that’s hilarious. X3 My 4, soon to be 5 come HOT beg to differ as each of them run a different build and I find that I can do well and have fun on all of them. Don’t blame anet just because your unwilling to go try nonmeta builds, there’s plenty of fun to be had away from the meta.

Ok I dont use meta thats the whole point. Nwm.
I wonder if the diversity was nerfed to balance the game, cause this game was never been soo unbalanced before.

Lets hope Hot can make it better…

Never played Meta build.
Never will.

Bazooka.3590:

Why celestial amulet is still in pvp?

Bazooka.3590:

Cele amu give 4480 stat points and berserker 4 example is only 3000 thats why.
And yes if u are a necro or an ele u are forced to use it cause u dont have anhoter build option if you wanna win a fight.
And yes there are kitten loads of unviable viable builds. Well not too much since the new trait system..

A bit of PvP history for you.

We had the Zerker meta. People were making 5 QQ posts a day because of all the “Instant burst 1 shot builds takes no skill” posts. Anet deemed it unhealthy (their exact words) and wanted to change the meta so they introduced Cele amulet.

Cele amulet used to have the same stat to stat ratio as other amulets. It got buffed because it was utterly useless on every class. Concequently, other classes got buffed such as Elementalists trait cleanses in the process of this change. We got the Ele – War – Engi Cele meta. (April 2014)

A recent patch changed the meta further, engi and war were no longer powerful on cele except Ele – Ele’s might stacks got nerfed shortly after burst mesmer did to put them in line, some what.

Look at the history. They put a lot of work in having the meta be where it’s currently at thanks to the QQ posts that zerk meta brought.

Team comps in the zerk meta era consists of condi 1v1 builds, a bunk guardian that every team had, and zerker builds
Team comps now, are made up of cele, zerks, marauders, soldiers and/or even cleric bunker sustains. You can even work in 1 carrion build in the group and that’s burn guard.
The meta is more diversed than it has ever been.

Saiyan.1704:

Bazooka.3590:

Why celestial amulet is still in pvp?

Bazooka.3590:

Cele amu give 4480 stat points and berserker 4 example is only 3000 thats why.
And yes if u are a necro or an ele u are forced to use it cause u dont have anhoter build option if you wanna win a fight.
And yes there are kitten loads of unviable viable builds. Well not too much since the new trait system..

A bit of PvP history for you.

We had the Zerker meta. People were making 5 QQ posts a day because of all the “Instant burst 1 shot builds takes no skill” posts. Anet deemed it unhealthy (their exact words) and wanted to change the meta so they introduced Cele amulet.

Cele amulet used to have the same stat to stat ratio as other amulets. It got buffed because it was utterly useless on every class. Concequently, other classes got buffed such as Elementalists trait cleanses in the process of this change. We got the Ele – War – Engi Cele meta. (April 2014)

A recent patch changed the meta further, engi and war were no longer powerful on cele except Ele – Ele’s might stacks got nerfed shortly after burst mesmer did to put them in line, some what.

Look at the history. They put a lot of work in having the meta be where it’s currently at thanks to the QQ posts that zerk meta brought.

Team comps in the zerk meta era consists of condi 1v1 builds, a bunk guardian that every team had, and zerker builds
Team comps now, are made up of cele, zerks, marauders, soldiers and/or even cleric bunker sustains. You can even work in 1 carrion build in the group and that’s burn guard.
The meta is more diversed than it has ever been.

I don’t see how meta is more diversed than ever with five ele team stopped only by an esl tournament restricting rule (at least three professions per team required now).
Now we have always cele dd ele everywhere stacking 2 or 3 in the most cases

In super competitive play there will always be the ‘preferred’ build or way to play. This isn’t ArenaNet’s fault it’s the players who think this is the only way to play and tell other people it’s the only way to play. I have seen many off meta builds do just fine in PvP (I don’t think I’m top tier by any means but I’m up there a bit). People just like to watch the pros and copy them thinking the build it was makes them win.

I’m not saying all builds are equally as strong or viable just that you can play off-meta and still do well. Skill > Build and many people think the other way unfortunately.

Yep, the only reason I think the well-mannered gentlemen took 2 eles and 2 engis instead of 4 eles is due to European rules.

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

In super competitive play there will always be the ‘preferred’ build or way to play. This isn’t ArenaNet’s fault it’s the players who think this is the only way to play and tell other people it’s the only way to play. I have seen many off meta builds do just fine in PvP (I don’t think I’m top tier by any means but I’m up there a bit). People just like to watch the pros and copy them thinking the build it was makes them win.

I’m not saying all builds are equally as strong or viable just that you can play off-meta and still do well. Skill > Build and many people think the other way unfortunately.

Without the optimal skill build your skill will be invisible or at least an uphill battle to demonstrate against good meta players.

Spurrlock.3219:

So is this where I QQ because I can’t use my brain powers to craft a build that competes with the ones from metabattle.com?

well to be honest. not every player can come up with builds to compete with the meta tough. it’s called a meta for a reason. even in proffesional circles meta’s are prevalant.

builds that can match the meta are a rarity. tough more power to you if you manage to find one. It prolly has taken you and all that succeeded some effort i guess.

Ithilwen.1529:

It’s true that at this point, unless you are playing the build off metabattle, with the prescribed skill rotations you are going to be stomped.

The OP is right, for most classes there’s really only one build that’s appropriate to take into pvp and that is not healthy for the game.

You appear to confuse your subjective opinion with that of actual fact. Perhaps you get stomped. I do not. And I aabsolutely do not play the so called meta build. It might be helpful if you made it a discussion, instead of declaring anything that you encounter is factually universal. It is more likely, in my opinion, that you get stopped do to bad rotation movement and poor fighting decision long before you lose because of a meta build. Good decisions are equally, if not more important then filling meta builds to a tee.

No one is forcing you to play by the meta.

Keep in mind, most people playing “meta” just cookie cut from Metabattle. Get clever and you can counter the builds on some classes. Others are locked into some lines/utilities. (Im looking at Ele, Warrior and Ranger mostly >>)

Just get creative, use the meta as a reference rather then playing it. Sure you might get stomped at first but once you find a combination that works you’re bound to have fun.

It’s funny how people think. Of course there’s gonna be a meta. But does that mean there is no build diversity? Nope. Meta just means the optimal build to run.

How do you expect anet to balance, make every build known to us equal? That’s impossible. So if you’re qq-ing about having a meta, it just displays your level of intelligence.

ReaperJr.5967:

It’s funny how people think. Of course there’s gonna be a meta. But does that mean there is no build diversity? Nope. Meta just means the optimal build to run.

How do you expect anet to balance, make every build known to us equal? That’s impossible. So if you’re qq-ing about having a meta, it just displays your level of intelligence.

But why can’t my warrior build that uses all physical utilities, takes the shoutheals trait, and uses greatsword with magi amulet be viable?

ArthurDent.9538:

ReaperJr.5967:

It’s funny how people think. Of course there’s gonna be a meta. But does that mean there is no build diversity? Nope. Meta just means the optimal build to run.

How do you expect anet to balance, make every build known to us equal? That’s impossible. So if you’re qq-ing about having a meta, it just displays your level of intelligence.

But why can’t my warrior build that uses all physical utilities, takes the shoutheals trait, and uses greatsword with magi amulet be viable?

Because this is the equivalent of trying to eat your meal with a lamp instead of a fork.

Just like others said, Anet does not force anyone to play the meta, community does.

Aylpse.6280:

Others are locked into some lines/utilities. (Im looking at Ele, Warrior and Ranger mostly >>)

Nearly any class has that problem.

Can you play necro without soul kitten ? You’re doing yourself a disservice by forgoing that unblockable life force generator staff…

Can you play guardian without virtue ? I mean, if you’re not giving away stability there’s something wrong, very wrong going on.

I think what people are expecting is to be given alternatives to those central cores that would still work. (For example as a zerk necromancer, spite and soul reaping are mandatory, but you must then choose between death magic or blood magic. Both of them have their pros and cons, )
But then again, its easier said than done.

witcher.3197:

ArthurDent.9538:

ReaperJr.5967:

It’s funny how people think. Of course there’s gonna be a meta. But does that mean there is no build diversity? Nope. Meta just means the optimal build to run.

How do you expect anet to balance, make every build known to us equal? That’s impossible. So if you’re qq-ing about having a meta, it just displays your level of intelligence.

But why can’t my warrior build that uses all physical utilities, takes the shoutheals trait, and uses greatsword with magi amulet be viable?

Because this is the equivalent of trying to eat your meal with a lamp instead of a fork.

This post made my morning hilarious

It’s funny how some people can’t understand the relation between the lack of build diversity and the smaller number of builds which can counter meta.
Skill over build. True. But try to fight with a condi war (for example) against a dd cele ele. Good luck.

As Anet keeps killing viable builds we got less and less chance to come up builds which can differ from meta and still useful in a fight.
This whole procces is leading toward the direction of one viable build per class and I think Anet wants to balance this state with elite specializations.
If you can’t understand that please don’t speak about intelligence levels…
And again: I don’t use meta builds and I don’t want to.