Guild Wars 2

This meta is the most balanced it’s been in awhile, despite some possible healing adjustments that might make fighting in teams a lot less… lengthy… Anyway, the guardian class still needs to be adjusted. In my opinion, and I am definitely inviting discussion on this, they simply have too many blocks. WAY too many blocks. This gives them so much sustain and it makes it hard to be effective if you’re sitting in their traps to do damage while they just block everything.

Thanks for this.

I’ve been waiting for the DH issue to come up on the forums.

Finally I can rest at night.

+1

So serious question: why is something that was there from the very beginning (guardian blocks) suddenly a problem now?

It stands to reason that if the blocks didn’t change, then something else must have that is actually the cause of your complaining.

Kuya.6495:

So serious question: why is something that was there from the very beginning (guardian blocks) suddenly a problem now?

It stands to reason that if the blocks didn’t change, then something else must have that is actually the cause of your complaining.

People always do this when a class suddenly becomes propelled into the meta. The thing is, sometimes new buffs/changes should be kept in place as they make the class more competetive/fun/skill-based and it actually is those “old” things which should be nerfed (if nerfing is even necessary).

Imo, guardian’s blocking isn’t that big of a problem with the exception of our f3. It could stand to have a second shaved off of its block time which wouldn’t neuter it, but would also relatively increase the value of the Bulwark trait

Kuya.6495:

So serious question: why is something that was there from the very beginning (guardian blocks) suddenly a problem now?

It stands to reason that if the blocks didn’t change, then something else must have that is actually the cause of your complaining.

Before there were other classes that had much larger sustain problems, that were rightly shaven down. Guardian didn’t get any shaves. In fact it got some sustain improvements.

Also before hand guardian had lots of blocks but very little pressure, now with the improvements with symbols, dragon hunters kit and sustain increases it feels at times guardian has little to no shortcomings. Which makes a very frustrating opponent. I don’t have a problem with guardian having sustain, damage, or traps for that matter, but the current overall kit and meta builds offer very few opportunities and counter play for opponents.

If I could relate it in cliché terms: it is like fighting the old burning ashes celestial elementalist all over again. I don’t think it needs large shaves, just a number of small tweaks.

What you guys are actually whining about is symbol spam. Blocks are the same. Healing is the same. Cleansing is the same. The new thing is symbol spam which when traited can provide a steady stream of healing through writ of persistence and/or a steady stream of damage (regardless if the trait is taken or not, in terms of damage)

Now question, are you guys asking for a nerf to symbols? If so, in what way?

Kuya.6495:

What you guys are actually whining about is symbol spam. Blocks are the same. Healing is the same. Cleansing is the same. The new thing is symbol spam which when traited can provide a steady stream of healing through writ of persistence and/or a steady stream of damage (regardless if the trait is taken or not, in terms of damage)

Now question, are you guys asking for a nerf to symbols? If so, in what way?

No, what’s actually going down here is people are coming forward saying they don’t enjoy fighting this opponent for various reasons, and then your trying to put words in peoples mouths and tell them what they think.

I’ll be frank here as I could go on and write probably a 30 paragraph post of things I find frustrating with guard atm. Instead I’ll simplify, my issues with guard/dragonhunter are simply:

• Has to much persistent sustain
• Has to much aoe cleave/heal with no risk.
• Has to much reliability without denial mechanics

Eval.2371:

Kuya.6495:

What you guys are actually whining about is symbol spam. Blocks are the same. Healing is the same. Cleansing is the same. The new thing is symbol spam which when traited can provide a steady stream of healing through writ of persistence and/or a steady stream of damage (regardless if the trait is taken or not, in terms of damage)

Now question, are you guys asking for a nerf to symbols? If so, in what way?

No, what’s actually going down here is people are coming forward saying they don’t enjoy fighting this opponent for various reasons, and then your trying to put words in peoples mouths and tell them what they think.

I’ll be frank here as I could go on and write probably a 30 paragraph post of things I find frustrating with guard atm. Instead I’ll simplify, my issues with guard/dragonhunter are simply:

• Has to much persistent sustain
• Has to much aoe cleave/heal with no risk.
• Has to much reliability without denial mechanics

So symbols.

Thanks.

The meta shifted too.

Sustain/Bunker amulets/specs were all nerfed.

Game type also has an effect since victory is based on standing on, taking, and holding a small ring. Since DH is the only one who can stand on a point now, and also the only one who can dish out the pain on point now, it stands to reason that DH is the premium winner of the conquest style game mode XD

This isnt rocket science.

Seems pretty easy to nerf, shave a second or two off the duration of Symbol of Blades. Maybe Symbol of Punishment as well. What was the duration of Smite pre-change?

Kuya.6495:

So serious question: why is something that was there from the very beginning (guardian blocks) suddenly a problem now?

It stands to reason that if the blocks didn’t change, then something else must have that is actually the cause of your complaining.

ive told you a million times other classes sustain got nerfed. how many times i gotta say it?

sophiewhite.3149:

Kuya.6495:

So serious question: why is something that was there from the very beginning (guardian blocks) suddenly a problem now?

It stands to reason that if the blocks didn’t change, then something else must have that is actually the cause of your complaining.

ive told you a million times other classes sustain got nerfed. how many times i gotta say it?

No use telling him. He is always the white knight in all of the DH threads even if the opposition has sound reasoning. It’s getting old.

Kay so im kinda bored of reading those GUARD NERF posts that are avoiding the main guard problem atm. For me its like good old times when we had totally OP warrior hamer build that had almost no counters …. but going to the point
you are trying to change ppl minds or what, talking about symbols healings etc ? guard always had just moronly strong healings, so he have it now but even stronger. KAY. legit. why not…. but still its something that in my opinion he needs to keep in fight, maybe not SUCH strong but its ok …. maybe DMG ? SYMBOLS YOU SAY ? nah guard is Burst class, he need burst so dmg is ok like it is…
Main guardian problem is that Braindead strong F3 on Dragoncancer …. man there is no class who can block from 5-7 sec and Deal this insane dmg in same time its all about this blocks ( every blocking class Have to use shield or block skills and JUST BLOCK not block and attack )…. now guard / dragoncancer is more like easymode to kill all class .. just need to spam your skills ( where your F1 is unblock with instacast ) under your legs and pull your enemies inside after they dodge or start to block thats it… this is why guard bunkers are almost immortal now in pvp Cause of blocks any class can pull so much unblock hits to take this down… after hot release when i saw dragoncancer F3 i thought its blocking projectiles or so + good old aegis stack but nah PERMABLOCK cause why not and this is only thing i can see to get dragoncancer on the ground, get rid of this brainless F3. im not talking about total nerf but only way i can see is F3 change to projectile block insted of permablock … this will force DH to move and think Not to stay in 1 place and be happy cause of OP skill … anyway with new shield / mace etc move like this ( nerf F3 ) will force guards to change builds to more defense less dps options… im not flaming or screaming NERF GUARD ITS OP CAUSE I GOT MY kitten KICKED IN PVP its not this i simply see that ppl are talking like oh guard is ok let him stay like this, other classes are more op. This is scream for help more like A net i Beg you dont nerf my FAV class ( ATM ) cause ppl like this will change to something else after guard nerf … lol … even those INSTACAST AND INSTAARM traps are …. lets say ok

so i know its long post i dont care if you like it or no, ppl that wants guard to stay like it is will hate me for this post but meh im critical for every class cause i want game to be balanced, this is my fc**** wish since i started to play GW2 and im still waiting on this …

ah and guys 1 more thing on the side devs wont even read this thread cause its too many NERF GUARD posts on the forum alredy they are probably bored like i am xD
we can talk about nerfs buffs but noone will care about this ;P

and at the end :
Gardian changes to make him Balanced
- F3 change to projectile block Or pulsing aegis lets say 1 sec aegis every 2 sec for 7 sec or so
- Traps cast time Or arm time
thats all see you all in game

StickerHappy.8052:

sophiewhite.3149:

Kuya.6495:

So serious question: why is something that was there from the very beginning (guardian blocks) suddenly a problem now?

It stands to reason that if the blocks didn’t change, then something else must have that is actually the cause of your complaining.

ive told you a million times other classes sustain got nerfed. how many times i gotta say it?

No use telling him. He is always the white knight in all of the DH threads even if the opposition has sound reasoning. It’s getting old.

Opposition has sound reasoning? I guess we could call being embarrassingly wrong “sound reasoning”. Just to humor you.

I often help the needy, you know.

and elementalist needs no updating whatsoever?

Honestly, i think anet benefits better from listening to guards (such as sayin) on what to nerf and not the regular peanut gallery that strolls around here.

For example what you could do:
1-Cut 2s from symbol of punishment and blades
2-cut base healing from writ of persistance by half to 50 and double healing power contribution (0.075>0.150)
3-cut base damage from dragon’s maw by 50% and buff trap by spreading the might boon to allies as well
4-cut base damage from procession of blades by 50%, spread fury to allies as well on activation and apply 1 stack of bleed per hit (10 stacks if all hits connect).
5- lower purification activation healing from 6.4k to 5k and have regen spread to allies as well.
Additionally:
1-cut symbol of faith cast time to 1/2
2-have glacial heart also apply quickness when it activates
3-have virtuous solace activate at 40% instead of 25%.

Kuya.6495:

So serious question: why is something that was there from the very beginning (guardian blocks) suddenly a problem now?

It stands to reason that if the blocks didn’t change, then something else must have that is actually the cause of your complaining.

Actually, I remember just before HoT when I played alot of MedGuard I noticed alot of complains at guards for their long duration blocks and their ammount of powerfull heals. Before HoT guards was one of few classes that had so many blocks and invuln.

during season 3 theres a lot of QQ thread about DH being OP and stomping players from amber to ruby. theres also threads warning Anet that if they buff the nub friendly class which was stomping all new players it will be a bad idea. season 3 i see at least 2-3 DH in both teams. now we see 5-7 DH in both teams. Season 1 ELE, and Mesmer being the OP class you dont see stack of 6 of them. this season even for druid the most u see is 4 in both team. DH was in a good spot during season 3 except they not viable in High gameplay. i dont wanna see DH get nerf but i want other class that counter them get buff. imo

come on! stack together team!

Don’t nerf the DH!
I want use this funny no brain class kill other player in S5.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

i dont wanna see DH get nerf but i want other class that counter them get buff. imo

Ranger is pretty easy to play and does amazingly well. So is Mesmer, they basically play with only 1 utility and do amazing compared to other classes.

Main issue with guards in spvp is that unless you’re extremely specialized build (like defy pain/signet of might uber zerk warr and a good one at that) you cannot fight a guard on point. To have a chance of surviving and winning you have to peel off guard’s defenses at range, all the while said guard is capping or holding a point and points flow to the enemy team. By the time you dealt with most of his blocks and what not he already has +1 coming to kill you, or so much time passed that even if you kill him and decap, points he earned by simply holding that point before you dropped him are already a huge gain for the enemy team.

Unless another guard comes to that point and they start sharing their heals and blocks…

Don’t forget to nerf Druid, their staff 1 goes thru blocks, the 10 second cooldown on that daze >> vine immobilize is too short, they lose all condi and gains stealth every 6 seconds while in combat. You guys think DH is op, Druid makes DH look like it needs a buff.

Crazy thought here guys, Rotate around the DH? or use skills that trigger traps, like Rev hammer. rangers send there pets in Ele, use the Earth f4 skill. I’m sure there are more. Guards are slow, so it’s easy to out rotate a team stacked with them.

Also if the person playing Guard is better at playing guard than you are playing the class you are playing, then you’ll lose no matter what.

Not all the guard problems are down to the class being “OP”, it’s down to you not being as good as you think you are.

DH shouldnt got buff in the first place. a class that spam traps and forget about it game play is really easy to play. its a noob killer. the problem is by buffing it you get what we have today 4 DH in your team and opposite team. just by looking at that do u think its ok? now why i say i dont want DH to get nerf? because this can easily be solved if Anet doesnt allow class STACKING! but believe me when i say this even if anet doesnt allow class stacking in the future, people will still find ways to complain about certain class.

Hirasaki.6208:

Don’t forget to nerf Druid, their staff 1 goes thru blocks, the 10 second cooldown on that daze >> vine immobilize is too short, they lose all condi and gains stealth every 6 seconds while in combat. You guys think DH is op, Druid makes DH look like it needs a buff.

Yeah, yeah, sure. Except daze and all conci clear every 10s (not 6) are in same line in same tier. So it’s daze or condi cleanse.
Stealth prevents point capture so druid that stealths every 6s is gonna lose that point real fast, while guard can hold it all the time.

Staff #1 goes through projectiles reflects and absorpion fields, though it’s true, it’s very strong vs guards since it ignores these and strips aegis stacks real fast. Against guards it’s a very solid weapon that is true. It sadly lacks anything else like longbow’s cc or shortbow’s condi ability.

Yes guardian gets two symbols on two underused weapons and suddenly its so OP? hahaha

Where are your threads from season 1,2,3 that guardian has too many block?

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

during season 3 theres a lot of QQ thread about DH being OP and stomping players from amber to ruby. theres also threads warning Anet that if they buff the nub friendly class which was stomping all new players it will be a bad idea. season 3 i see at least 2-3 DH in both teams. now we see 5-7 DH in both teams. Season 1 ELE, and Mesmer being the OP class you dont see stack of 6 of them. this season even for druid the most u see is 4 in both team. DH was in a good spot during season 3 except they not viable in High gameplay. i dont wanna see DH get nerf but i want other class that counter them get buff. imo

A player who was in legendary x3 divison and posted video’s of themselves becoming the current #1 Ranked E.U ranger showcased DH symbols and traps were very much alive and well in high level play. Perhaps in VOIP teams they are undesirable, but in soloQ DH is very much alive and well in high level play and doing what they do well…melting 60% of a HP bar in seconds and chaining persistent blocks to thwart any sort of counter.

Ragnarox.9601:

Yes guardian gets two symbols on two underused weapons and suddenly its so OP? hahaha

Where are your threads from season 1,2,3 that guardian has too many block?

In seasons 1-2-3 necro had a much larger presence. Their use of soul marks and its unblockable marks/corruption kept DH blocks in check. This season necro has been diminished and no longer has a presence with chronomancer wells…….hence chained blocks are an issue. There is no point in discussing what was back then…the only value is in discussing what is right now.

first as said before its a cap game thus the trap is a winning

thief has trap and also ranger ? why they dont use them – cause its useless for thief and semi useless to ranger when you know he is condi….
for guard they play better role why is that?
is it thier dmg? maybe bit too much?!
is it their sustain from blocks?! blocks hardly change beside the trap which was added as a trait and utility
is it their health?! F2 now heal about 6k? and also twice with RF combine with trap heal for another 10k and 2k fro trait with low cd

i think the dmg part is ok also from symbols.
i think the block is ok too. maybe hunter determination needs some nerf to do only stunbreak and stability for shorter duration
the healing scale needs to tune down . virtue of resolve gave 2.4k healing but with wings of resolve is doubled to 5.1k why???
the trap heal is 7.5k common must to too high so need to tune down to 5k to be total of 7k healing (like most classes with mender amulet)

Yea, F2 from DH should not go down unless you substantially buff it elsewhere. Unlike vanilla F2, it’s interruptable and no way is any guard gonna want a 2k heal that can be interrupted.

If you insist on whining about it though, what we could do is split the heal in two, one 2.5k upon initial activation and a 2.5k heal at landing.

If the Meta was balanced there would be some build variety.
It’s far from balanced in my opinion, it’s the contrary, the worse meta in a long time.

The game was balanced for a few weeks when they nerfed turrets engi, before they came up with the new trait system and ruined everything.

Back them I had 4-5 builds that were unique and completely viable. None of these builds are possible today.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

DH shouldnt got buff in the first place

It didn’t, guardian did. It’s just that any change to the core class unavoidably effects elite specs too.

The problem is class stacking and squishy builds. Gaurdian is fine. There are plenty of counters. They aren’t any more broken than any other class. They just happen to be viable now. You didn’t have to worry about them before. Now thst they’re more than just a “noob killer” you are all saying they need a nerf. Typical forum BS. Are you saying they are harder to beat than engi, druid, warrior, mesmer, rev? If so, i’d say learn to play….

the only thing that also affected guardian balance is elementalist being nearly destroyed. There is propably only one ele build left with menders that is tier B. Ele was a large reason of guardian not played. In addition popularity causes class stacking which makes is much worse …. Buffing unused skills/weapons is usualy a good thing as long as you don´t overbuff of course ….

SIGH this is the reason why I play 4 classes in pvp these days. Don’t have to worry about all these whiners who instead of learning how to counter, just QQ’ about every class they have a problem with.

LOL just checked OP post history, Hes a thief main. Now I see the reason he’s whining.

A thief complaining about a class that has hard countered it since the beginning of time. SMH

I find condi warrior a bit stronger than DH, but it probably depends a bit on what class goes up against it.

I still paly ele and have no issues and with a P/P thief i can beat them too … Yea it´s both not meta ….

If Guardian gets nerfed, they should nerf Rev, Druid, Scrapper and Thief too. All these classes have ridiculous tools, Revs evade and blocks and nuke things for days, Druid CCs, heals, stealths and kills everything with pet, scrappers are always immune, invuln, or have some sort of defense up. And thieves can escape any situation along with seven dodges in a row with signet and steal for endurance easily to just mindlessly evade not only that but damage on interrupt, popping headshots are there too, if they don’t take Dash, and use Bound, DPS on dodge is silly not to mention is easy stealth with black powder. Vault is a issue too, needs a nerf in damage. There’s also that ridiculous condi build that keeps them in evade frames for years.

Currently there are some classes that don’t have pvp builds that are in the meta.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Crazy thought here guys, Rotate around the DH? or use skills that trigger traps, like Rev hammer. rangers send there pets in Ele, use the Earth f4 skill. I’m sure there are more. Guards are slow, so it’s easy to out rotate a team stacked with them.

Also if the person playing Guard is better at playing guard than you are playing the class you are playing, then you’ll lose no matter what.

Not all the guard problems are down to the class being “OP”, it’s down to you not being as good as you think you are.

Not to sound picky, but if you are promoting the strategy of avoiding a particular class on the map, that does make it sound OP.

I think the sheer amount of them is the problem. People are getting vaporized by stacked traps and I admit myself its not fun when that happens and sometimes there are so many dh on the other side its almost impossible for it to not happen a couple times in a match. The buffs the class got have almost nothing to do with traps though. Lol at people talking about things like nerfing symbol regen thats ludicrous its so small to begin with. I think the heal trap should be nerfed and maybe DH f2 but thats about it. The blocks from f3 is on a looooong timer.

What IS balanced in tempest hmm…

Let’s see:
1.On every amulet class dies on auto attacks
2. Can’t use any dps amulet because it’s suicide – ele has tons of useless defence skills tided to stats and almost no hard damage migration.
3. Again dps amulet is bad because damage is too bad against any other class in this game – all 8 classes HAVE MORE hard damage migration. Ow and it’s to low…thief will do more with auto attacks.
4. Class can’t bunker in this meta without both toughness and healing…
5. Class can’t use any thing besides x/focus or insta dies.

So in short: ele damage is on level before HoT power creep, no sustain to survive any power 1v1, can’t win 1v1 (maybe maybe with bad thief), support is to weak to compete with druid and engi….

SO WHAT IS BALANCED IN CASE OF ELE? CAN OP EXPLAIN? OR WHY HE WANTS NERF ON BUILD THAT IS USED ALMOST 4 SEASSONS AND FORGOT HOW TO KILL IT?

Not at all, It’s not even close to being balanced while it is giving that appearance. you are only seeing that due to the fact that arena net removed 75% of player interaction.
If they ever cut down on passives you would see just how bad the balance really is.

Reward Vs Risk is a part of balance, your honestly claiming every profession is on equal grounds. which is mind boggling. every single elite profession needs a nerf for when you boil it right down, they reward bad play.

Obviously this isn’t going to happen, and if you realize this game is braindead just wait for the next expansion, it can only get worst. not better.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

DH shouldnt got buff in the first place . a class that spam traps and forget about it game play is really easy to play. its a noob killer. the problem is by buffing it you get what we have today 4 DH in your team and opposite team. just by looking at that do u think its ok? now why i say i dont want DH to get nerf? because this can easily be solved if Anet doesnt allow class STACKING! but believe me when i say this even if anet doesnt allow class stacking in the future, people will still find ways to complain about certain class.

What buff did DH received?

Aeolus.3615:

What buff did DH received?

Aurashare ele got nerfed hard.

Sword doesn’t fling projectiles around now.

Scepter auto projectiles are slightly faster so you can’t strafe avoid them from 50 units away.

Symbols on each main hand weapon.

Mostly all the DH counters got nerfed either directly (ele, scrapper as well to an extent) or indirectly (anything that used to rely on ele to heal them through DH burst).

BrotherBelial.3094:

Crazy thought here guys, Rotate around the DH? or use skills that trigger traps, like Rev hammer. rangers send there pets in Ele, use the Earth f4 skill. I’m sure there are more. Guards are slow, so it’s easy to out rotate a team stacked with them.

Also if the person playing Guard is better at playing guard than you are playing the class you are playing, then you’ll lose no matter what.

Not all the guard problems are down to the class being “OP”, it’s down to you not being as good as you think you are.

honestly id love to rotate around the dh. when the traps dont take up the entire point and forces me off it or else dead.

StickerHappy.8052:

sophiewhite.3149:

Kuya.6495:

So serious question: why is something that was there from the very beginning (guardian blocks) suddenly a problem now?

It stands to reason that if the blocks didn’t change, then something else must have that is actually the cause of your complaining.

ive told you a million times other classes sustain got nerfed. how many times i gotta say it?

No use telling him. He is always the white knight in all of the DH threads even if the opposition has sound reasoning. It’s getting old.

He just narrowed down the complaints, symbols.
Menders Symbols, healing symbols and AH = Super sustain.
The higher you go, the less DH becomes a problem anyway, I’m more scared of a well played Necro/Scrapper/Ele than anything. They have active playstyles and fast rotations. A well played DH does nothing in my games, it’s always countered by something, even a Maruader Ele taking Stone heart is enough without the 40% protection.

the problem with some classes and build is that they dont have a unique counter

mesmer counter rev
thief counter mes
thief counter rev
guard counter thief
etc…

dh has no unique counter same as druid most fight if they want is stalemate fights
engi used to be stalemate due to its passiveness traits.
ele used to be stalemate and now it balance (but have no other builds to play with)

now if there was a counter to DH you would see ppl changing to it when they face one or four

this is the problem

The counter to DH, particularly medi trapper is power rev.