Mixed Queues are NOT good.
the problem with mixed queue is exactly the comment below. the “best” team in the world in playing unranked and wiping the floor with their pug opponents. sure sounds like fun. and i bet that group of pugs sure does appreciate getting completely owned. i bet this will really foster a solid pvp community. from waiting in the mists doing nothing to finally getting to play to getting owned by a full premade. definitely going to keep people coming back for more. (hopefully you can detect the sarcasm).
if your goal is to try and force people to play on teams with each other, it could back fire on you. people might just move on to another game, one that allows them to queue and do something while waiting.
its a simple solution, dont let teams of 4 or 5 queue in unranked. allow pug players to have a place to queue against other pugs. its a fair compromise.
Me and my friend duo q in unranked and get vs abjured, what the actual f***…..
i guess playing against pugs is how they hone their skills….
I don’t think theres anyone enjoying the queues being merged.
It’s really stupid when you solo queue and get placed with 4 pugs to fight against a full premade and get smashed.
Or when you queue with a full premade, and smash 5 solo queue pugs.
you know whats messed up, i bet you alot of those full premades are enjoying the heck out of themselves curb-stomping pug groups. i really dont understand how winning 500-0 is fun at all, especially over and over again…but to each their own i guess.
One Ply To Rule Them All
Bring PPK back to WvW!!!
Bring PPK back to WvW!!!
(edited by oneply.9586)
And there seems to be see-sawing in philosophy of where to take the game. Back to merging queues? Do we remember why the didn’t work in the first place?
When we had them together everyone hated being stacked (which is understandable) and wanted a solo queue. When we had solo queue everyone hated how it was random and the ladder meant practically nothing.
Now we have them together and everyone hates being stacked against (again, understandable.)
The solution isn’t to try the same thing no one liked, the solution is take care of the actual problem: being stacked against. I’m working on that. Looking at the data, the current implementation seems to be helping, but still has a quite ways to go. I have a few ideas I’m going to run by some people on Monday, and I’ll run a lot more simulations before bringing them into the server.
Another part of the problem is the perception players have, which is being fueled by a selection and confirmation biases, and was not helped by unranked and profession ratings starting at the default.
There will always be people hating it, but you really should separate team and solo que.
Generally you can’t get to the top as a solo player anymore because you most of the time get premades or semi-premades against you(despite Anet promised to make a system that doesn’t do that). So if you go solo you get way worse ranking, than people u know are not as good at pvp but always play with a full premade team.
Thief balance thread here.
6k+ PvP games
6k+ PvP games
(edited by Kicker.8203)
If premades couldn’t queue into unranked to farm essentially, you would have more people queing in ranked and solve both problem, shorter ranked queues and unfair team structure in unranked. What did solo queue do to you to make you murder it?
…
No, we aren’t bringing solo queue back. Yes, I am working on making sure you’re less likely to be stacked against pre-mades.
Why merge soloq and teamq when you try to to avoid a match up?
Yep, it’s confirmed, my matches quality drop A LOT, i really mean, A LOT, since the changes, it was way better before.
Please switch it back.
What about Unranked for Solo and Ranked for Team?
^ Makes no sense. Why not ranked solo then?
Razor xxxx (Desolation ; Off)
Bring back: ‘Gamer’ title + MAT’s!
Throw out: Hotjoin!
Bring back: ‘Gamer’ title + MAT’s!
Throw out: Hotjoin!
I still think it would be best to split Solo and Team again, but I’ll give it more time to let MMR settle before making a final judgment. (I do see why, from an efficiency perspective, it’s best to keep all Unranked and Ranked players together.)
solo queue was so much more fun then the current system. I find myself getting frustrated and annoyed a lot more often against teams of people queued together.
I played solo queue because i dont like the feel of team queue.
solo queue was so much more fun then the current system. I find myself getting frustrated and annoyed a lot more often against teams of people queued together.
I played solo queue because i dont like the feel of team queue.
this has not been my experience. after at least 50 ranked games, ive been matched against premades only a handful of times, or even less.
Give time to devs to improve their Matchmaking.
Solo against premade it’s not a big issue on low mmr level, good solo players can easily win against bad premades.
The real problem is when 2-3+ good players go together and in the other team there isn’t a similar roster size with the same skill level.
Devs are working on it, give them time.
I still think it would be best to split Solo and Team again, but I’ll give it more time to let MMR settle before making a final judgment. (I do see why, from an efficiency perspective, it’s best to keep all Unranked and Ranked players together.)
Won’t matter people will work out a way to farm solo players for whatever lame reward they want in the current system. This is what happens in every single game without a SoloQ; basically, every MMO ever until this one. So basically they took teh one really good thing about their pvp and removed it.
60% of my games were good before the patch. 30% within 50 points. Lately, about 20%. Very significant drop in fun.
Removing soloQ was a mistake and in typical Anet fashion they don’t admit to mistakes and make us suffer for them.
Current Patch: significantly long team queues, team v pug, less 4v5 at first but increasing
Previous Patch: shorter team queues, solo and team largely split, could get bad streaks of 4v5
Seriously, would not dishonour in itself limit 4v5? We did not need all these changes.
We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
I still think it would be best to split Solo and Team again, but I’ll give it more time to let MMR settle before making a final judgment. (I do see why, from an efficiency perspective, it’s best to keep all Unranked and Ranked players together.)
Won’t matter people will work out a way to farm solo players for whatever lame reward they want in the current system. This is what happens in every single game without a SoloQ; basically, every MMO ever until this one. So basically they took teh one really good thing about their pvp and removed it.
60% of my games were good before the patch. 30% within 50 points. Lately, about 20%. Very significant drop in fun.
Removing soloQ was a mistake and in typical Anet fashion they don’t admit to mistakes and make us suffer for them.
Current Patch: significantly long team queues, team v pug, less 4v5 at first but increasing
Previous Patch: shorter team queues, solo and team largely split, could get bad streaks of 4v5Seriously, would not dishonour in itself limit 4v5? We did not need all these changes.
He used percentages and vague anecdotes…it must be legit.
Give time to devs to improve their Matchmaking.
Solo against premade it’s not a big issue on low mmr level, good solo players can easily win against bad premades.
The real problem is when 2-3+ good players go together and in the other team there isn’t a similar roster size with the same skill level.
Devs are working on it, give them time.
ya i noticed this. there was once when i queued together with 2 other friends.
we noticed 3 very stronk players on the other team. >.<
the other 2 dps team mates of ours was not contributing very much by spending much of their time on the floor.
I still think it would be best to split Solo and Team again, but I’ll give it more time to let MMR settle before making a final judgment. (I do see why, from an efficiency perspective, it’s best to keep all Unranked and Ranked players together.)
Won’t matter people will work out a way to farm solo players for whatever lame reward they want in the current system. This is what happens in every single game without a SoloQ; basically, every MMO ever until this one. So basically they took teh one really good thing about their pvp and removed it.
60% of my games were good before the patch. 30% within 50 points. Lately, about 20%. Very significant drop in fun.
Removing soloQ was a mistake and in typical Anet fashion they don’t admit to mistakes and make us suffer for them.
Current Patch: significantly long team queues, team v pug, less 4v5 at first but increasing
Previous Patch: shorter team queues, solo and team largely split, could get bad streaks of 4v5Seriously, would not dishonour in itself limit 4v5? We did not need all these changes.
He used percentages and vague anecdotes…it must be legit.
Last I checked this was a forum not a university journal. I didn’t realise I needed to chart my game progress for a month.
I find my experience has declined and I am having less desire to play. I don’t really feel that the current PVP team is listening or making changes for the benefit of the players. It is like they are doing things just to tell their bosses and the players they have done something this patch cycle.
Anet knows how many people were queuing for what and how often games were within 100 points. They could provide those numbers if it was necessary.
Furthermore, if I was working in retail or sales and managed a stuff up of this magnitude that made so many customers unhappy, I would expect some form of repercussions.
We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
They can bring back solo Q without losing Unranked Q for teams and groups.
Just make the penalty prohibitively high when scoring a potential match where one team is all solo Q’ers 1+1+1+1+1 and the other has at least one group in it.
Voila! SoloQ exists again.
Alongside Unranked Team Q.
The team Q people might have to wait longer for a match. But they would as well in their own separate Q.
The Alien (condi necro),That Wreckin Crew (Mesmer)
Silentshoes (Thief), Wind of the Woods (condi ranger)
Silentshoes (Thief), Wind of the Woods (condi ranger)
They can bring back solo Q without losing Unranked Q for teams and groups.
Just make the penalty prohibitively high when scoring a potential match where one team is all solo Q’ers 1+1+1+1+1 and the other has at least one group in it.
Voila! SoloQ exists again.
Or they could just add a button that says soloQ for those that want it and paid good money for this game. They had one before.
We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
They can bring back solo Q without losing Unranked Q for teams and groups.
Just make the penalty prohibitively high when scoring a potential match where one team is all solo Q’ers 1+1+1+1+1 and the other has at least one group in it.
Voila! SoloQ exists again.
Or they could just add a button that says soloQ for those that want it and paid good money for this game. They had one before.
Yes, but there was a different system behind that button and it has likely been erased.
If they do what I stated, you as a solo player will always play solo Qers only. So don’t worry about the button.
The Alien (condi necro),That Wreckin Crew (Mesmer)
Silentshoes (Thief), Wind of the Woods (condi ranger)
Silentshoes (Thief), Wind of the Woods (condi ranger)
(edited by Silentshoes.1805)
Yes, but there was a different system behind that button and it has likely been erased.
I wish! It’s still being used to host custom arenas and activities.
If they do what I stated, you as a solo player will always play solo Qers only. So don’t worry about the button.
The new systems can do a solo queue, we just don’t feel it promoted our goals or fit with where we want to take the game.
That doesn’t mean we like people getting into situations like 5 vs 1+1+1+1+1, so we will fix this one way or another. In fact, I think I found the culprit so it may happen less far less often after the 16th. I say ‘may’ here only because there are still situations where it could happen. E.g. it’s 3am and they’ve been waiting in the queue a long time and you’re the only players near their skill level.
Server Programmer (sPvP)
Isle of Janthir: Flux, Latch, Aegir
Isle of Janthir: Flux, Latch, Aegir
solo queue was so much more fun then the current system. I find myself getting frustrated and annoyed a lot more often against teams of people queued together.
I played solo queue because i dont like the feel of team queue.
this has not been my experience. after at least 50 ranked games, ive been matched against premades only a handful of times, or even less.
I’m talking even groups of 2 or 3, those being in the game completely change how its played compared to solo queue. Solo queue just had its own play style and feel because nobody was premade, it was all solo players vs solo players. I just want to be able to queue solo and not be at a disadvantage again.
Justin,
As has been mentioned, even having a group of 2 on a team, potentially in realtime communication on TeamSpeak, gives a huge coordination advantage,
The lightning speed of saying “thief on the roof and 2 heading to far, necro at mid all alone” is huge… over trying to type it between battle key presses.
The Alien (condi necro),That Wreckin Crew (Mesmer)
Silentshoes (Thief), Wind of the Woods (condi ranger)
Silentshoes (Thief), Wind of the Woods (condi ranger)
As has been mentioned, even having a group of 2 on a team, potentially in realtime communication on TeamSpeak, gives a huge coordination advantage,
We know this is the case.
Looking at the data, and running simulations where we take roster size into consideration during the filter part of matchmaking. Couple of ideas sound good to me at first glance. 1) Adjust their MMR upward so that if they do get paired against lower roster sizes they’ll be against more skilled opponents. 2) A hard filter that just prevented them from being considered at all (at least until a fail-safe kicks in.)
As for TeamSpeak, we can’t reliably detect that to make it a factor.
Server Programmer (sPvP)
Isle of Janthir: Flux, Latch, Aegir
Isle of Janthir: Flux, Latch, Aegir
As has been mentioned, even having a group of 2 on a team, potentially in realtime communication on TeamSpeak, gives a huge coordination advantage,
We know this is the case.
Looking at the data, and running simulations where we take roster size into consideration during the filter part of matchmaking. Couple of ideas sound good to me at first glance. 1) Adjust their MMR upward so that if they do get paired against lower roster sizes they’ll be against more skilled opponents. 2) A hard filter that just prevented them from being considered at all (at least until a fail-safe kicks in.)
As for TeamSpeak, we can’t reliably detect that to make it a factor.
1) It could work until a definite point. At higher tier this system could be a problem because when mmr is high and people skilled a different roster size (like for example 3+2 vs 1+1+1+2 or 4+1 vs 1+1+1+1+1) can create at huge gap in coordination and movements.
2) Probably a filter can ensure more quality game at every skill tier. But i dunno if there could be long queue problems. Maybe an attempt could be interesting.
3) or Maybe using roster size filter only for a MMR >= X and a more flexible system for low mmr.
(edited by MarkPhilips.5169)
They can bring back solo Q without losing Unranked Q for teams and groups.
Just make the penalty prohibitively high when scoring a potential match where one team is all solo Q’ers 1+1+1+1+1 and the other has at least one group in it.
Voila! SoloQ exists again.
Or they could just add a button that says soloQ for those that want it and paid good money for this game. They had one before.
Yes, but there was a different system behind that button and it has likely been erased.
If they do what I stated, you as a solo player will always play solo Qers only. So don’t worry about the button.
Pffft… I have lost all faith in Anet to do anything positive. Can only hope they find some new direction in the new year, the current PVP team is not listening at all. PVP atm is total trash. The last 2 patches have destroyed it. All I see is a huge mistake that was made and a programming team that will not admit their mistakes.
Really. 2 years in and they still don’t have savable build layouts. Do you guys even play pvp? Do you know how irritating it is to not have this as a core feature? Why wasn’t this prioritized over removing SoloQ, which btw was very popular and helped maintain some semblance of pvp parity. Why am I in matches where one team has 3 of one class and the other team has 3 of another? How hard is that to program?
I won’t even get into class balance or the meta which is pathetic at this stage.
The new systems can do a solo queue, we just don’t feel it promoted our goals or fit with where we want to take the game.
And what does this mean? How does removing a fun aspect of the game promote your goals? Really? What are these goals to kill casual pvp by Xmas?
We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
(edited by Relentliss.2170)
So if I read everything correctly, you did all these changes knowing that it was going to affect how qs were and then complain that it is making them too long for you thus you are forcing players to that are full solo teams vs full pre-mades. Sounds totally balanced to me. I would rather wait 10 minutes to have a balanced match-up then be smashed because none of the players communicate or can type well. So untill you improve you map system for calling stuff out you are indirectly sticking anyone out of a pre-made without coms at a disadvantage.
I am glad you are working on making things better, but I see the removal of Solo Q more of a game breaker then a fix and as well a slap in the face as you fixed everything that made it bad.
It is very tempting to do a tank my MMR night just so I can get match-ups less likely to be against pre-mades since it is no fun facing pre-mades nearly half the time as you solo q when you play during the slow hours. With all your worry about q times and not giving us options of stuff to do during them like before with WvW or hot-joins is screwing more stuff up then worrying more about even match-ups. I can give a rats behind about waiting longer if that means I get a decent match-up I don’t want to be thrown in there just to get faced against a match that is a 95% chance of loss, it is not fun. And you expect people to keep fighting till the end?
I don’t have countless hours to play the game like some near the top of the leaderboard that get the better players or the players with more time in to the game, if I did maybe I wouldn’t have that big of an issue, and with my work schedule I don’t get to play primetimes NA. So either allow us to choose to PvP in NA and EU on one account by guesting over there somehow for PvP or push your fixes now instead of making us wait for weeks. Still think Solo and Team q should be brought back even though you don’t with your full hindsight on Q TIMES!!! BECUASE THAT MAKES IT BETTER!! MORE PLAY MORE FUN!!!!! kittenTHAT!
of those complaining about unbalanced matchups, what are you playing ranked or unranked? i notice a BIG difference right now in match quality between the 2 and q times within a minute of each other.
One Ply To Rule Them All
Bring PPK back to WvW!!!
Bring PPK back to WvW!!!
I am currently in Avg. queue time of 22 minute in Ranked Arena. Seems like queue times are a little screwed up!
Relic Hellfire
Rank 80 PvP Guardian
The Knights Reaper [TKR]
Rank 80 PvP Guardian
The Knights Reaper [TKR]
I am currently in Avg. queue time of 22 minute in Ranked Arena. Seems like queue times are a little screwed up!
alot of people have said “off hour” queue times blow. glad i manly play during peak hours
One Ply To Rule Them All
Bring PPK back to WvW!!!
Bring PPK back to WvW!!!
I am currently in Avg. queue time of 22 minute in Ranked Arena. Seems like queue times are a little screwed up!
If you could see the few people waiting in queue, and their MMRs, you would see why it is taking so long to find you a good match for your skill rating.
Scrapper: “Frank from Research”