More Harm than Good? ReThink

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: cerberus.1937

cerberus.1937

Look players cant always understand why developers do and make the decisions they do, but just take a step back and please reconsider what message you are acutally sending to your players.

For the future of your game you decided to do away with glory for reasons we cannot understand at this point in time and that is ok, but what message is it sending that you are deleting boosters and all other pvp dailies since game started?

If you look at it from a player perspective the message you are sending us is something along the lines of we are deleting your previous work and effort because it does not fit into our future image of pvp.

We understand you want to make pvp better for the players but if you do delete their work and effort without at least something in return what is stopping them from thinking you wont do the exact same thing to them again?

No one wants to play a game that says we will delete your effort and work at any time because it doesn’t fit with our plans anymore and you cant blame them.

At least consider giving partial glory less than if they had used them for the boosters after all glory has not damaging effects on the market you can get account bound pvp gear or levels for your alts.

All I am saying is that if you are looking to make pvp more attractive and gain more players the message that we will delete your time and effort without reimbursement sends the exact opposite message at least let people use they glory they worked for before glory is removed is that too much to ask?

+1 if you agree if not say what you would like to see or why

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: style.6173

style.6173

Good point. I agree with what you say

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: Dosvidaniya.3260

Dosvidaniya.3260


No one wants to play a game that says we will delete your effort and work at any time because it doesn’t fit with our plans anymore and you cant blame them…

I disagree.

They aren’t deleting effort and work. Effort and work are supposed to be represented by the achievements, pvp armor sets, and rank. The APs are sticking around. The gear is sticking around. Rank is sticking around. Boosters are not a a representation of your effort. They are a byproduct of it. Should they actually phase them out instead of this nonsense? Absolutely. (Let players trade them in for dye or luck. You can do this and be completely fair.) However, they aren’t stripping us of past progression.

What they need to rethink is leaving players with large pvp reward downtime. They should also rethink the desire to wait for pve updates before giving us more news. At this point, I’m convinced the only reason they’d do it is because the new system is not ready and we won’t have rewards for a month or more. That is going to cause more harm than good. That 40% jump in pvp from December is going to look like an ant hill compared to the drop off they are going to create in two weeks when everything gets removed and we still have no idea about our replacement.

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: cerberus.1937

cerberus.1937

Dosvidaniya.3260

“I disagree.

They aren’t deleting effort and work."

This is the only point I will touch on as you have made some valid points. However, by definition it takes effort and or work to diligently log on and complete the pvp dailies every single day. Yes, they are not deleting progression (not that they didn’t try) remember back when they said they were removing ranks? Thankfully with the player base hugely against this they decided to revert their decision and keep ranks or this would have completely wiped everything done in pvp since start. They decided to keep ranks since that was very important to players (progression), but now they are deleting everything else crafting mats, glory boosters and glory. Had ranks left what would we be left with….nothing since armor will be universal. To sum up they are currently on the track to delete all effort and work put into pvp in the form of deleting all our rewards and only reason we are left with ranks is because people said something.

we are not asking for anything unfair just maybe 100 glory per booster (4x less than minimum glory gain when used) . I would not be against something else but glory would have least effect on economy and they are getting rid of it anyway. call it a show of good faith that they care what people do and accomplish in their game and value the players time, work and or effort put into their game.

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: cerberus.1937

cerberus.1937

basically they posted they wanted to be fair we understand they need to revamp pvp to get more people interested, but taking a step back and looking at what is coming:
march 18
no improvements to pvp
removal of pvp rewards
removal of glory
the removal of all past pvp daily rewards from reward chest (glory boosters, crafting mats)

I don’t know really they tried to remove ranks and now they are removing everything else

don’t get me wrong I am happy that some could use all their boosters, but for others it just wasn’t near possible despite trying to use them first time we were told of this

some will have hundreds of boosters left should they be punished and lose what they worked to get?

rewarding something more than what a booster is worth was never the idea, The fully glory as if you had used the booster wouldn’t be right either as some did use them.

a reduced amount of glory less than if you had actually used it would be fair as you are getting less than if you had used it and nothing different in return other than its original purpose glory.

But take some time to think if you want people to see the message you don’t care about pvp or the work people put into it as that is how it might come across

first ranks were up for removal (reverted)

now everything else is up for removal (please let us have something to show for our work)

if this trend continues not only will pvp lose people, but who will play pvp seeing everything done in the first year try to get removed?

what message will you send to your current and future players?

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: swiftpaw.6397

swiftpaw.6397

It’s really just turned into a confusing mess.

Grandmaster Forum Mind Brain
|-Swiftpaw Sharpclaw [DnT]-|

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: cerberus.1937

cerberus.1937

care to elaborate?

I doubt a dev will answer or make a comment, but I sincerely hope that they will do the right thing and send the right message that they do care about pvp and the time and effort their players put into it and not simply delete things that took time to earn.

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: kylwilson.9137

kylwilson.9137

Oh please as if anyone actually put in any actual effort to acquire Glory Boosters, with acquiring said boosters being the actual intent. And as A-net have said (and I’m defending them for once which is a shock), they’re reimbursing people who did purchase boosters using gems.

Sure I don’t agree with the changes they’re making on a basis of principle, it’s pretty lame and doesn’t set the best example, but alas they covered their kitten pretty well on this one so it’s best to move on, at least in my opinion.

I have a feeling people are complaining about not being compensated because they see the removal as boosters as an avenue to be reimbursed for nothing. Which I understand, seeing as everyone loves free stuff.

\o/

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: Matisse.9356

Matisse.9356

It’s really just turned into a confusing mess.

Even though there are FAQ in regards to the glory removal, I do think that this is how a lot of players (at least forum posters) feel like.
I attribute this to the vague picture we have.

They can’t however change their approach specifically to glory boosters – which seems to be the stumbling block – as this would alienate the players that took their info as a given and reacted to that (i.e. depleting their glory boosters stock).

In my opinion, the glory boosters issue is the catalyst for the basic criticism that I read in the OP, namely: We take away your usual rewards (glory) and reward you with a cookie (increased rank points) until we have a solution.

This makes it seem like handing out a plane ticket with unknown destination.
Some might consider this adventurous, quite a few could consider this headless.

tl;dr: A clear destination and a timeline is missing and should have been communicated (more clearly) in the first place.

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: Leeto.1570

Leeto.1570

Too late for this, they said use up your glory boosters and i did.
In what way it would be fair to me that you didnt use your glory boosters? Will i get my 200+ glory boosters now back if they decide to give reward for them?
If you dont use them that means you dont need them, if you dont need them then dont cry about them beeing removed.

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: Sergoros.4398

Sergoros.4398

Too late for this, they said use up your glory boosters and i did.
In what way it would be fair to me that you didnt use your glory boosters? Will i get my 200+ glory boosters now back if they decide to give reward for them?
If you dont use them that means you dont need them, if you dont need them then dont cry about them beeing removed.

How u would be harmed, if we would get 100 glory per booster? Its way less, than what u get from your boosters.

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: Leeto.1570

Leeto.1570

Well maybe PVP is very hard for me and i would prefer 100 glory per booster for doing nothing instead of doing PVP, they said use them so i basicly all the time stacked 10 hours so i dont have to worry about it, who knows how many of them got wasted in my time of afk or doing something different than PVP.
The question is what YOU loose from glory removal, dont try to tell me that you worked hard for glory boosters but decided to not use them.

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: Sergoros.4398

Sergoros.4398

Well maybe PVP is very hard for me and i would prefer 100 glory per booster for doing nothing instead of doing PVP, they said use them so i basicly all the time stacked 10 hours so i dont have to worry about it, who knows how many of them got wasted in my time of afk or doing something different than PVP.
The question is what YOU loose from glory removal, dont try to tell me that you worked hard for glory boosters but decided to not use them.

I dont enjoy pvp as it is too. But. I still did all the pvp dailys. Just cause they were giving some kind of reward for it (boosters). So yeah. U complain about your free time wasted using boosters. Well. I complain about my free time wasted Getting them.

Though. We have 1 thing in common, we both consider our time playing pvp wasted. Nice of them to force us to waste this time. eh? Lets agree with them just so they would think its normal and make this their way of dealing with customers. Waste your time or lose your stuff.

(edited by Sergoros.4398)

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: Liewec.2896

Liewec.2896

totally agree, glory works, the rewards need changing, not the currency.

personally the idea of moving over to gold scares me, you see PVEers running around with THOUSANDS of gold in their wallets, while us pvp commoners are scrounging for pennies,

the idea that a dedicated PVEer can come in and purchase far more pvp rewards than a dedicated pvper can is frankly insulting!

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: Archaon.6245

Archaon.6245

More likely they’re deleting OUR efforts and work too..but noone gives a kitten to this pvp anymore so bring it on, who cares..

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: Nikaido.3457

Nikaido.3457

Too late for this, they said use up your glory boosters and i did.
In what way it would be fair to me that you didnt use your glory boosters? Will i get my 200+ glory boosters now back if they decide to give reward for them?
If you dont use them that means you dont need them, if you dont need them then dont cry about them beeing removed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

- “No tears, please. It’s a waste of good suffering.”

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: Leeto.1570

Leeto.1570

Too late for this, they said use up your glory boosters and i did.
In what way it would be fair to me that you didnt use your glory boosters? Will i get my 200+ glory boosters now back if they decide to give reward for them?
If you dont use them that means you dont need them, if you dont need them then dont cry about them beeing removed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

Ye exactly, i followed rules the arenanet made, now you try to change the rules multiple turns later, why i should suffer from the fact that i did what game devs told me to do?
If you wanted them to not remove glory boosters then you had to make boycott when they announced it and i would join on it, now i will do everything to pull you with me for letting them drown me in first place.

Edit: Noone cared about glory boosters in first place, now when someone figured out that you could get something for them with no effort, everyone cries about how hard it was to accept free glory boosters.

(edited by Leeto.1570)

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: Sergoros.4398

Sergoros.4398

Ye exactly, i followed rules the arenanet made, now you try to change the rules multiple turns later, why i should suffer from the fact that i did what game devs told me to do?
If you wanted them to not remove glory boosters then you had to make boycott when they announced it and i would join on it, now i will do everything to pull you with me for letting them drown me in first place.

Edit: Noone cared about glory boosters in first place, now when someone figured out that you could get something for them with no effort, everyone cries about how hard it was to accept free glory boosters.

You dont get it. Do you? 1-st glory boosters. Whats next? Today you say yes to it. Next, they would decide to delete smth else. Thats precedent. I dont want other things I hoarded to disappear.

They MUST care about our stuff. Or else this game is no better, than some random pirate server.

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: Matisse.9356

Matisse.9356

Too late for this, they said use up your glory boosters and i did.
In what way it would be fair to me that you didnt use your glory boosters? Will i get my 200+ glory boosters now back if they decide to give reward for them?
If you dont use them that means you dont need them, if you dont need them then dont cry about them beeing removed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

Not to sound like a know-it-all, but you might wanna check on the use of crab mentality again, as you apparently misunderstood its meaning.

More Harm than Good? ReThink

in PvP

Posted by: cerberus.1937

cerberus.1937

Too late for this, they said use up your glory boosters and i did.
In what way it would be fair to me that you didnt use your glory boosters? Will i get my 200+ glory boosters now back if they decide to give reward for them?
If you dont use them that means you dont need them, if you dont need them then dont cry about them beeing removed.

I am glad that you were able to use up all your boosters but you had 200 as you said. There are people that had 900 1000+ boosters and its seems a little off to ask people to use up a year and a half worth of boosters within a 3 month time frame.

As for your reasoning you got glory from your booster we are not asking for something different minimum amount gained if used is 400 glory per booster most average around 800 when they use them. I fail to see the point that you would be missing out on anything if people that tried to use them, but had too many are compensated 100 glory per booster. why you ask because using them rewards you 4-8x more.

As for why people save them I cant really say it differs from person to person some that have school save them and use them during summer when they can play a lot. Some that have work save them when they take vacations and can put time into pvp.

point is do you want to delete something that people earned (yes doing pvp dailies didn’t seem like much but taking away all rewards for doing something sends a very bad message)

I used the analogy of pvp because its what most people can relate to if karma was suddenly to be removed that would cause chaos; as we say when they were just removing the bonus karma gained on consumables they quickly reverted this to allow people to use their karma jugs that were (yes saved) karma jugs were also an item from a daily .

Just because you don’t care about an item doesn’t mean everyone doesn’t and no one is asking for something for free just that they care and if I could choose I would rather take the full boosters and be able to use them gaining full glory but as that does not look like an option the reduced glory seemed the best solution to be fair for those that did pvp daily every day and simply had too many.

Most importantly this is about what message they are sending to the players

They tried to get rid of ranks (changed their minds based on player reaction)

They are now trying to remove everything else (deleting something someone earned is never a good sign because what is next why try to earn stuff that could be up and deleted on a whim)

Point is they are trying to get people into pvp not drive people out. If you really think about it if ranks had been removed like they wanted and now all the dailies are being removed (crafting mats and glory boosters) as well as glory itself what would the people that have played pvp since 3 day head start have………that’s right nothing armor is becoming universal so we wouldn’t even have that.

So how does it effect anyone that used their booster and got the full 4-8x the glory gain to let those that tried and couldn’t use them all get the small reduced glory of 100 per booster this would allow them to get something for their effort such as maybe some levels towards an alt to change game modes if pvp dies with next patch…yes not ideal but better than nothing.

It is never a good message to delete something that people had to earn.

why? because what is next on the chopping block?

Most importantly if they do delete something you worked for what is to say the next thing you work for is not deleted as well and the next thing and so on; its a bad message to send to players you want to stay and lays a dark road towards the games sustainable future and player base.