Guild Wars 2

I find it nearly impossible for most melee classes without stealth to do any real damage. For instance Warriors hammer and greatsword arent used very much cause your opponent has to let you get in melee range. Thieves get to use invisibility and then therefore use crit backstab with double sigils to do there damage.

So my thought it to limit the sigil or air/fire to 1 per weapon set and just increase the base damage of melee weapons. I mean most classes use range from certain spots as it is. Rangers/mesmers/engys/necros/ele most of the time are sitting on ledges trying to free cast. Like anything with less then 350 range gets a damage boost. Im just wondering what peoples thoughts are on this.

S/D thief, Mediation Guardian, D/D ele say hi to you
Well, with nodes restricting the area of movement, melee have a pretty good chance cleaving the node and hitting foes.

Aomine.5012:

S/D thief, Mediation Guardian, D/D ele say hi to you
Well, with nodes restricting the area of movement, melee have a pretty good chance cleaving the node and hitting foes.

Obviously the d/d ele is a big one to figure out but the other 2 do it with burst attacks and sigil of fire and air. Im really trying to think of a way for melee charactes to have a chance against the range characters.

Like scepter focus eles shouldnt be able to kill someone with 8k with one hit when hes rocking both sigils and a 0-6-0-4-4 build. The same goes with the thief builds as well. The best players in the game also know how to fight you with range and yet prevent you from capping with knock backs /pulls/ and movement impeding skills and the whole time there ranging.

Seriously its not often you see a guardian who uses mace or sword. Currently most warriors are running strictly longbow in fights. Engys are literally all range and the fact that you cant do anythings against nades sucks. Mesmer and ranger are all range with a few skills outside the norm for either speed boost or invulnerability damage.

Atm only d/d eles are good in melee combat vs other classes, im just wondering if other believe good melee pvp players should be reward for catching range characters. If a sword shield warrior with a rifle is able to cripple you switch weapons stun you with the shield and lay down 1-2 melee attacks before you start using your utility skills for vigor and what not. Shouldnt he rewarded for timing and chaining his attacks to lay down a nice combo?

Too many times for me you hit someone with a nice combo and they immediately can use a stun break/run away skill and range you after you knocked them down. There is literally no reason to make a melee character in this game other then invisible thiefs or d/d eles. Not only that, its bad enough that range characters get the same amount of damage/ success rate of the op sigils and they can have 800-1500 range.

you cant do everything yourself , its a team game if you can’t 1vs1 a node vs a Kite play charater ether leave the node go else where and stop wasting time.

also ranged damage is weaker than melee you’ll get 3 melee hits for every 1.5 range hits going off the max output in pvp Ranged hits go for 2.2ishk melee hits can go for nearly the same amount x3 hits you dont have flight time to consider nor Line of sight blocking your attacks.

if you can’t reach a target because the other player smartly uses the terrain to suit his build then get better or do somthing else.

clearly your whining about solo play without a guild party or a group you are on talking terms with.

warroirs/guardians are line holders or line pushers they are needed to enforce structure in high intensity fights but also require team mates to set up the targets for focused melee damage , hence why rangers are much better off using LB > Pinning CC or Condi traps or Muddy terrain , same goes for necros and mesmers the art of distraction to trick players into a bad situation.

The issue isn’t that melee needs more damage. The issue is that range needs less. It is crazy that a safer ranged spec can do more damage that a higher risk melee spec. It makes no sense.

style.6173:

The issue isn’t that melee needs more damage. The issue is that range needs less. It is crazy that a safer ranged spec can do more damage that a higher risk melee spec. It makes no sense.

This. Right here.
Rapid Fire does pretty much the same damage as 100b while having almost 12x the range. It’s also more reliable and doesn’t make you a sitting duck.
I think more ranged skills should work like Necro’s Lifeblast – doing less damage at max range than up close, while also rewarding good positioning (with piercing trait), rather than sitting on a ledge and spamming it mindlessly.

Harrier.9380:

style.6173:

The issue isn’t that melee needs more damage. The issue is that range needs less. It is crazy that a safer ranged spec can do more damage that a higher risk melee spec. It makes no sense.

This. Right here.
Rapid Fire does pretty much the same damage as 100b while having almost 12x the range. It’s also more reliable and doesn’t make you a sitting duck.
I think more ranged skills should work like Necro’s Lifeblast – doing less damage at max range than up close, while also rewarding good positioning (with piercing trait), rather than sitting on a ledge and spamming it mindlessly.

They do not do the same damage… They do less. Also melee doesn’t get punished for reflection, projectile block, and stealth. They also are better at cleaving the down body (Though the revamp of traits may fix this)

Also, if ranger is so good, higher level teams would already use it already. But yknow, the number of ranger in the top 8 team of TOL3 is how many? Zero. Yeah they bring some decent range damage, but that’s the only thing they bring, which is not good enough.

Last thing, I actually agree RF doing slightly less damage at max range! (and normal damage at <900 range) But in return, how about remove the damage penalty from Long Range Shot in close range too? RF is the only damage source from LB ranger in close range because Long Range Shot sucks at close range.

Addition note: Lich Form does around 80% damage of RF with a attack pattern of 1 hit per second. So during Lich Form, Necro uses RF every second. The dps is like 4~5 times higher than ranger during that period of time.

Harrier.9380:

style.6173:

The issue isn’t that melee needs more damage. The issue is that range needs less. It is crazy that a safer ranged spec can do more damage that a higher risk melee spec. It makes no sense.

This. Right here.
Rapid Fire does pretty much the same damage as 100b while having almost 12x the range. It’s also more reliable and doesn’t make you a sitting duck.
I think more ranged skills should work like Necro’s Lifeblast – doing less damage at max range than up close, while also rewarding good positioning (with piercing trait), rather than sitting on a ledge and spamming it mindlessly.

You are so wrong it’s not even funny.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hundred_Blades

Damage Damage (8x): 1,571 (4.21)?
Damage Final strike damage: 410 (1.10)?
Miscellaneous effect.png Number of Targets: 3

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rapid_Fire

Damage Damage (10x): 1,320 (3.75)?
Vulnerability 40px.png10 Vulnerability: 10 s
Combo.png Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (20% chance)

Not even close to the same damage, apparently pvp people can’t be taken seriously when it comes to math. They’re pretty bad at it.

Also not mentioned in the linked information is the fact that 100b has a 8 second cd whereas rapid fire has a 10 sec cd, 100b cannot be reflected, and of course as shown above 100b cleaves 3 targets baseline whereas if you wanna cleave with rapid fire you gotta trait for piercing and hope foes are gathered in a line.

But of course warriors have always been pretty good at whining their way into pvp godhood. They want more of the healing signet treatment.

style.6173:

The issue isn’t that melee needs more damage. The issue is that range needs less. It is crazy that a safer ranged spec can do more damage that a higher risk melee spec. It makes no sense.

Thats not entirely true. A Glass ranger f.e. might do a lot of ranged damage, but melts. Whereas a glass Warrior is never truely glass because of inherently high hp/armor, and he might have to get in melee range to melt you but getting in ranges is fairly easy with the amount of mobility.

Glass Thieves are also not really glass. They evade, blind, stealth and teleport and are one of the toughest targets to actually put down. And can get around quite easily and burst someone dead.

Mediguards can go full glass. But thanks to traits and skills will still be quite durable, and with teleports/leaps will get around and into melee fairly easy. Where they do a lot of damage.

Looking at just the range of a class is shortsighted. There are more factors that play a big part and melee in general is certainly not lacking either power, substain or the oppertunity to apply their damage.

I want +30% damage increase on Warrior’s Eviscerate.

Thank you~

Zenith.7301:

slip

You are so wrong that its not even funny.

You take raw damage from wiki and comparing it without reazling that hb needs 1 second more to finish cast (3 1/2) while rapid fire needs 2 1/2 and also provides 10 stack of vul. Now you can make comprasion and try again.

Its also funny that you comparing cd. Question is who will eat hb every 6-8seconds? Unless you have a whole team dedicated to cc your target i dont see it happening. As a ranger i just stay away and pewpew, i dont have to worry about any cc, its like autopilot. Risk vs reward is way off in this game.

Melee on paper is superior damage but in practice with the amount of kiting and cc the ranged classes can do paired with joke melee selfroot skills are coming off in terms of damage. Unless youre a thief before you even come close you will lose a good portion of hp cause ranged damage hits way too hard. Before a zerk warrior even close gap against my ranger hes usually at 50-60% hp left assuming i saw him first from far away. Its well know that ranger>war either way.

Zenith.7301:

Not even close to the same damage, apparently pvp people can’t be taken seriously when it comes to math. They’re pretty bad at it.

Ps. for that reason you cannot be taken seriously.

skowcia.8257:

Zenith.7301:

slip

You are so wrong that its not even funny.

You take raw damage from wiki and comparing it without reazling that hb needs 1 second more to finish cast (3 1/2) while rapid fire needs 2 1/2 and also provides 10 stack of vul. Now you can make comprasion and try again.

Its also funny that you comparing cd. Question is who will eat hb every 6-8seconds? Unless you have a whole team dedicated to cc your target i dont see it happening. As a ranger i just stay away and pewpew, i dont have to worry about any cc, its like autopilot. Risk vs reward is way off in this game.

Melee on paper is superior damage but in practice with the amount of kiting and cc the ranged classes can do paired with joke melee selfroot skills are coming off in terms of damage. Unless youre a thief before you even come close you will lose a good portion of hp cause ranged damage hits way too hard. Before a zerk warrior even close gap against my ranger hes usually at 50-60% hp left assuming i saw him first from far away. Its well know that ranger>war either way.

Zenith.7301:

Not even close to the same damage, apparently pvp people can’t be taken seriously when it comes to math. They’re pretty bad at it.

Ps. for that reason you cannot be taken seriously.

Too bad I can’t afford the infraction points to call you for what you are, considering you ignored the POWER COEFFICIENTS in the linked text.

I can tell you don’t do PvE, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to tell why HB does more DPS than Rapid Fire. You whine about being kited while ignoring using LOS to negate a ranger, which is why power ranger is only ever considered on a SINGLE MAP, whereas warriors exist on the meta, in tournaments, on every map.

I don’t even know why I bother, talking to you feels like it would have more deleterious effects to my IQ than watching the Tyra Banks show.

This is coming from the warrior class, who has a better version of a longbow for conquest or any teamfight than the ranger longbow will ever be.

i once did 23k dmg to a mesmer with 100b (before the might nerf)
now it hits for around 19-20k if i get the whole thing off in perfect conditions.
a melee damage buff would be hilarious for those of us that play zerker builds XD

Zenith.7301:

skowcia.8257:

Zenith.7301:

slip

You are so wrong that its not even funny.

You take raw damage from wiki and comparing it without reazling that hb needs 1 second more to finish cast (3 1/2) while rapid fire needs 2 1/2 and also provides 10 stack of vul. Now you can make comprasion and try again.

Its also funny that you comparing cd. Question is who will eat hb every 6-8seconds? Unless you have a whole team dedicated to cc your target i dont see it happening. As a ranger i just stay away and pewpew, i dont have to worry about any cc, its like autopilot. Risk vs reward is way off in this game.

Melee on paper is superior damage but in practice with the amount of kiting and cc the ranged classes can do paired with joke melee selfroot skills are coming off in terms of damage. Unless youre a thief before you even come close you will lose a good portion of hp cause ranged damage hits way too hard. Before a zerk warrior even close gap against my ranger hes usually at 50-60% hp left assuming i saw him first from far away. Its well know that ranger>war either way.

Zenith.7301:

Not even close to the same damage, apparently pvp people can’t be taken seriously when it comes to math. They’re pretty bad at it.

Ps. for that reason you cannot be taken seriously.

Too bad I can’t afford the infraction points to call you for what you are, considering you ignored the POWER COEFFICIENTS in the linked text.

I can tell you don’t do PvE, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to tell why HB does more DPS than Rapid Fire. You whine about being kited while ignoring using LOS to negate a ranger, which is why power ranger is only ever considered on a SINGLE MAP, whereas warriors exist on the meta, in tournaments, on every map.

I don’t even know why I bother, talking to you feels like it would have more deleterious effects to my IQ than watching the Tyra Banks show.

This is coming from the warrior class, who has a better version of a longbow for conquest or any teamfight than the ranger longbow will ever be.

Good joke, i whine about ranger while i play it myself. What else your mighty iq 200+ have to say? Bringing pve in a pvp section is also funny. Are you sure youre in the right section? https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons just in case.

Doesnt matter if it has higher coe as you will never land it either way. RP and HB are similiar in terms of damage output and nothing will change that. Lets also not forget 3k crits from 1 on squishy targets.

And the olny warrior build that performs well atm is shoutbow – support/bunker build. Rest is a freekill unless you plaiyng necro. Ps you probably never tried to beat a staff mes on gs zerk war. But after all what i can do except from pve guy?

100b damage looks better on paper, sure. Now, if you’ld be so kind to point me to someone who’ll sit in it for the whole 3.5s, I could use a good laugh.

Seriously though, whenever I fight gs war and see them swinging 100b in the air hitting nothing, I feel pretty bad for poor guy.

Zenith.7301:

This is coming from the warrior class, who has a better version of a longbow for conquest or any teamfight than the ranger longbow will ever be.

I haven’t played War in over a year. LB should just…. get deleted. Or at least get proper F1 nerf.

kdaddy.5431:

I find it nearly impossible for most melee classes without stealth to do any real damage. For instance Warriors hammer and greatsword arent used very much cause your opponent has to let you get in melee range. Thieves get to use invisibility and then therefore use crit backstab with double sigils to do there damage.

So my thought it to limit the sigil or air/fire to 1 per weapon set and just increase the base damage of melee weapons. I mean most classes use range from certain spots as it is. Rangers/mesmers/engys/necros/ele most of the time are sitting on ledges trying to free cast. Like anything with less then 350 range gets a damage boost. Im just wondering what peoples thoughts are on this.

I agree but it depends on the weaponset. Warrior Axe/Axe is a lot harder to stick to a target – there’s no mobility skill within that weaponset. You basically get kited to death.

Thief’s D/P, S/D/ etc don’t need a buff because they have mobility skils within the set (ports). It’s really easy to get in melee range.

…ok pros of 100blades
16-20k for 3.5secs (if every blade cleave hits) does more damage.
if you include RF without Signet of wild ect it will hit for 12-15k Pvp glass without signet of the wild vs other glass targets (if every arrow hits) see the difference now?

you complain about a target moving that is a issue for every class with their burst skills / channel high damage skills you have to ether:

1. work with a smart player or team to help you utilize 100blades or RF for its maximum effectiveness.
2. bring your own form of immobilse or CC , Most rangers bring a pet that CC’s cripples and does somthing to slow you down so the arrows hit more often.
3. you can’t do everything yourself there is a reason why Rangers are the jack of all trades though they have to highly Specialise in the style of play or effects they want to do , even going as far as changing their mechanic (yes the pet) for a different pet ether giving up Damage/effects for CC or hard CC , see how hounds only KD,cripple and have longish f2’s cooldown which also have to be Melee to deal damage , they synergise well and make it so RF hits its Mark.

just because something looks easy does not mean its easy , as it is the player that makes it look easy and its target doing nearly nothing much makes it look even easier.

its been such a lot time since i;ve come across a real Gs warroir and not one of those that just goes glass for deeps(as most damage obsessed players call it, we have a few in our guild that live by that rule and i gladly teach them a lesson in playing effectively rather than going for that 5% extra damage)

the last powerful and effect Gs warroir i came across forced me off point , Sword+maced me off point and pinned me off point , he used his Weapons to land a Full 100B though the 100B did not kill me , i did not have enough Hp to escape .

and that is the difference in use vs RF and blades ,

blades is to prep a target for death or bring him close to death for the f2 or CC to pin him to force him not to escape = death.

Rf for rangers is to a Scare tactic leaving you to move ineffectively wasting dodges and preventing you from staying at Range open field is our domain , it will remain that way.

this old mentaility of 100B ect is crap vs comparison to RF is a long on going Learning issue all newer players or Non-experienced players have to over come.

if you can’t pin your target down , don’t waste your skills chasing him down or using 50% of a 100b#s while the target is at 60% knowing full well it won’t win you the fight.

Redirect it, delay it, use it on a different target , HELL get a Ranger to join your party to use Muddy terrain SotF LB ranger if you can’t pin anyone down and get him to set up your targets..just play get better learn the differences between Ranged combat and melee combat they work on different paradigms where a lot of us Good ranger use Team work to our Teams Advanage like Sheep herders.

don’t use the " i can’t pin him down so 100b is useless whine " get better.

Aomine.5012:

S/D thief, Mediation Guardian, D/D ele say hi to you
Well, with nodes restricting the area of movement, melee have a pretty good chance cleaving the node and hitting foes.

uhh no, kill melee at range of node…then freecap node after dead melee… stop the lies it doesn’t work the way you say, the OP is right. buff melee damage (20%) is quite accurate no joke

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

…ok pros of 100blades
16-20k for 3.5secs (if every blade cleave hits) does more damage.
if you include RF without Signet of wild ect it will hit for 12-15k Pvp glass without signet of the wild vs other glass targets (if every arrow hits) see the difference now?

you complain about a target moving that is a issue for every class with their burst skills / channel high damage skills you have to ether:

1. work with a smart player or team to help you utilize 100blades or RF for its maximum effectiveness.
2. bring your own form of immobilse or CC , Most rangers bring a pet that CC’s cripples and does somthing to slow you down so the arrows hit more often.
3. you can’t do everything yourself there is a reason why Rangers are the jack of all trades though they have to highly Specialise in the style of play or effects they want to do , even going as far as changing their mechanic (yes the pet) for a different pet ether giving up Damage/effects for CC or hard CC , see how hounds only KD,cripple and have longish f2’s cooldown which also have to be Melee to deal damage , they synergise well and make it so RF hits its Mark.

just because something looks easy does not mean its easy , as it is the player that makes it look easy and its target doing nearly nothing much makes it look even easier.

its been such a lot time since i;ve come across a real Gs warroir and not one of those that just goes glass for deeps(as most damage obsessed players call it, we have a few in our guild that live by that rule and i gladly teach them a lesson in playing effectively rather than going for that 5% extra damage)

the last powerful and effect Gs warroir i came across forced me off point , Sword+maced me off point and pinned me off point , he used his Weapons to land a Full 100B though the 100B did not kill me , i did not have enough Hp to escape .

and that is the difference in use vs RF and blades ,

blades is to prep a target for death or bring him close to death for the f2 or CC to pin him to force him not to escape = death.

Rf for rangers is to a Scare tactic leaving you to move ineffectively wasting dodges and preventing you from staying at Range open field is our domain , it will remain that way.

this old mentaility of 100B ect is crap vs comparison to RF is a long on going Learning issue all newer players or Non-experienced players have to over come.

if you can’t pin your target down , don’t waste your skills chasing him down or using 50% of a 100b#s while the target is at 60% knowing full well it won’t win you the fight.

Redirect it, delay it, use it on a different target , HELL get a Ranger to join your party to use Muddy terrain SotF LB ranger if you can’t pin anyone down and get him to set up your targets..just play get better learn the differences between Ranged combat and melee combat they work on different paradigms where a lot of us Good ranger use Team work to our Teams Advanage like Sheep herders.

don’t use the " i can’t pin him down so 100b is useless whine " get better.

loooooooooooooooooooooool 16-20k dmge 100b and if all hits connect even more?? again them lies….in pvp on 100% berserker a full….FULL 100B does aprox 12k (without sigils)vs glass specs tops!!!! not even close to 16k let alone even higher……so many liars on forums unbeleviable. you make good points but the dmge examples of 100b are 100000000000000% false stop over excegiarating warrior skills (bad english ik)

I really need to stop coming to the forums. Do you guys even PvP?
I got a buddy that’s pretty monstrous with GS warrior and has no problems closing distance to kill. The trick is to time your 100B, 6 seconds doesn’t equal use on recharge. It’s not PvE. So… Get good.

If that is not enough I’ll get my D/D ele and I’ll stomp you myself with your OP “ranged” character. :\