Guild Wars 2

Hello everyone,

I’m pretty new to GW2 and tried sPvP only a few rounds. And actually, I have almost no incentive to continue playing it except having fun for a short time like playing Minesweeper, but not to invest time to really improbe skills and so on.
In the past I played games like CS, WC3, LoL, GW1. All of them are/were pretty successful in Esports. So I was thinking about it and I came to some thoughts and ideas which I want to share and get some feedback.

First of all, I read through some threads and the roadmap for the development of GW2 (especially PvP). In my opinion, the development goes in a wrong direction, because it is focusing too much on rewards and stuff. But to be honest? The games I mentioned above had barely rewards, but still they were incredebly successfull.

So what I think, which made the games successful in the Esports scene, is that they promoted top teams/players/guilds a lot through tournaments or leagues. I think, every Esport (and normal sport) need stars, where beginner or just casual player admire such high level plays and try to copy. And on the other hand, if there are such promotions, many player also try to be a top player, because a simple reason…. You can show that you are a “great” player. It is all about fame…
I have read that Anet is trying to implement the league system like in LoL or SC2, and I think this is a great step. But to continue this, Anet show build a really good observer mode like in GW1, where all people can watch the top league teams playing against each other. I remember times, where I watched in GW1 teams like War Machine or The Last Pride for hours. And so did a lot of other people. I think, for top player it is rewarding enough, if thousands other player watch you playing instead of getting just some gold and other loot….

Another point are the Queue Modes. So far, there are Hotjoins, SoloQ and TeamQ.
Hotjoins: Please kick it out. Better do unranked 5vs5 matches to practise for the ranked matches. ANd then give people the ability to create custom games. So all in all, same like in LoL

SoloQ/TeamQ: I would rather split it up in Solo/Team-Queue (one mode) and kind of Guild-Queue. The first mode should be done same as in LoL. So teams get mixed up by Solo-players and team-players, but the opponent should be matched in the same way. So if one team has 3 solo-players and 2 team players, the opponent should be mixed up the same. For Guild-Queues my idea is just that GW2 is a MMO, and people are much more related to their guilds. This would incent people to create more and better PvP-Guilds trying to going up the ladders for fame. And similar to GW1, the observer-mode should definetely show the games of top 50 or top 100 guilds.

These are just my thoughts about the competitive part of GW2. I know, GW2 needs also better PvP-Modes, but I can understand that this takes much more time. I think, my ideas are faster to implement and at least a step in a more competitive community. I think there are a huge amount of gamers waiting for a competitive PvP-mode in a MMO style. So this goes hand in hand with the revenues, which NCSoft seeks for. An idea to increase earnings in PvP is maybe to do PvP-only skins, which you can buy for real money (for a reasonable price like 5€ per weapon or 8€ per armor set). I think, many people would buy some skins, if the PvP community is big and professional enough. And last but not least, do more frequently but smaller balance fixes. Look at other games like Low, how they do this

What do you think about it? I really like the mechanics of GW2 because it is more focused on skill and I would love if GW2 gets more attention by the Esports scene.

I hope for some feedback.

Pvp is lacking game modes and maps mostly,also to be honest pvp in it’s current state is an unbalanced chaotic mess.People purposely picking asurans,no telegraphic moves that can be seen,compared to a norn or a charr, ( Its cheap..it Really Really Really is one of the cheapest things you can possible do,Pick up a race because of This reason ) , Then you have Engis running in circles spamming nades..being untouchable while doing so, No need to even target anything at all,just spamm and win,who needs skill.Necs with 3 hp bars,and a form that is able to neglect any form of melee dmg because of the constant blind spamming ( melee speaking ),Have fun cleansing,because you got the same kittenload of conditions back on you 2 sec later when your boons gets ripped and you got fear spammed into oblivion.Rangers with 30 sec stabi and their own personal zoo…. Pu mesmers,Thiefs blindspamming and over the top evade spamming.Also condi builds can be much tankier then a power/crit build due to the current amulet system,wich should be completely reworked imo,better yet..Removed and replaced with proper rings and accesoires to provide a more variety in different kinds of build setups instead of focring people to go this or that way and having no inbetween.Currently pvp is completely and utterly broken in every sense.Speaking as a warr ,the only viable thing for a warr to do against all these cheapmode spamm builds is to run a cheap condi/tank build yourself so you can join the aoe condi spamm chaos,because whatever else you try,will fail 90% of the time,unless youre facing a complete noob.The evade,blind,overall aoe condi spamming and dmg output is completely fubar in this game up the point that it really starts to irk me at times…I get more depressed every time i hop in pvp seeing all the crap going on and how unbalanced it all really is.I doubt anet will ever sort this mess out.

Anyway,before they even should start thinking about the stuff you mentioned,they need to balance the hell out of this game first.

Also I really like the mechanics of GW2 because it is more focused on skill… I’’m sorry to be the one saying it,but it really isn’t about skill in this game.

I disagree about not focusing on rewards. Rewards are the incentive and more difficult rewards are statements of time invested, hard work, and skill.

So without rewards, 90% of people will stop playing. It doesn’t matter what the carrot is as long as it’s difficult to achieve, offers progression, and is publicly visible.

bhagwad.4281:

I disagree about not focusing on rewards. Rewards are the incentive and more difficult rewards are statements of time invested, hard work, and skill.

So without rewards, 90% of people will stop playing. It doesn’t matter what the carrot is as long as it’s difficult to achieve, offers progression, and is publicly visible.

Agree with this. We have to keep in mind that this is an MMO and not a moba. MMO players are typically very loot driven.

I dont think there is anything negative about having a good reward structure.

sonic.7592:

Hello everyone,

I’m pretty new to GW2 and tried sPvP only a few rounds. And actually, I have almost no incentive to continue playing it except having fun for a short time like playing Minesweeper, but not to invest time to really improbe skills and so on.
In the past I played games like CS, WC3, LoL, GW1. All of them are/were pretty successful in Esports. So I was thinking about it and I came to some thoughts and ideas which I want to share and get some feedback.

First of all, I read through some threads and the roadmap for the development of GW2 (especially PvP). In my opinion, the development goes in a wrong direction, because it is focusing too much on rewards and stuff. But to be honest? The games I mentioned above had barely rewards, but still they were incredebly successfull.

So what I think, which made the games successful in the Esports scene, is that they promoted top teams/players/guilds a lot through tournaments or leagues. I think, every Esport (and normal sport) need stars, where beginner or just casual player admire such high level plays and try to copy. And on the other hand, if there are such promotions, many player also try to be a top player, because a simple reason…. You can show that you are a “great” player. It is all about fame…
I have read that Anet is trying to implement the league system like in LoL or SC2, and I think this is a great step. But to continue this, Anet show build a really good observer mode like in GW1, where all people can watch the top league teams playing against each other. I remember times, where I watched in GW1 teams like War Machine or The Last Pride for hours. And so did a lot of other people. I think, for top player it is rewarding enough, if thousands other player watch you playing instead of getting just some gold and other loot….

Another point are the Queue Modes. So far, there are Hotjoins, SoloQ and TeamQ.
Hotjoins: Please kick it out. Better do unranked 5vs5 matches to practise for the ranked matches. ANd then give people the ability to create custom games. So all in all, same like in LoL

SoloQ/TeamQ: I would rather split it up in Solo/Team-Queue (one mode) and kind of Guild-Queue. The first mode should be done same as in LoL. So teams get mixed up by Solo-players and team-players, but the opponent should be matched in the same way. So if one team has 3 solo-players and 2 team players, the opponent should be mixed up the same. For Guild-Queues my idea is just that GW2 is a MMO, and people are much more related to their guilds. This would incent people to create more and better PvP-Guilds trying to going up the ladders for fame. And similar to GW1, the observer-mode should definetely show the games of top 50 or top 100 guilds.

These are just my thoughts about the competitive part of GW2. I know, GW2 needs also better PvP-Modes, but I can understand that this takes much more time. I think, my ideas are faster to implement and at least a step in a more competitive community. I think there are a huge amount of gamers waiting for a competitive PvP-mode in a MMO style. So this goes hand in hand with the revenues, which NCSoft seeks for. An idea to increase earnings in PvP is maybe to do PvP-only skins, which you can buy for real money (for a reasonable price like 5€ per weapon or 8€ per armor set). I think, many people would buy some skins, if the PvP community is big and professional enough. And last but not least, do more frequently but smaller balance fixes. Look at other games like Low, how they do this

What do you think about it? I really like the mechanics of GW2 because it is more focused on skill and I would love if GW2 gets more attention by the Esports scene.

I hope for some feedback.

Nice post

Locuz.2651:

bhagwad.4281:

I disagree about not focusing on rewards. Rewards are the incentive and more difficult rewards are statements of time invested, hard work, and skill.

So without rewards, 90% of people will stop playing. It doesn’t matter what the carrot is as long as it’s difficult to achieve, offers progression, and is publicly visible.

Agree with this. We have to keep in mind that this is an MMO and not a moba. MMO players are typically very loot driven.

I dont think there is anything negative about having a good reward structure.

And here I disagree. Loot driven are PvE player, but not PvP Player. A focus on rewards would only pull some PvE player who only play for dailys and then leave. But with these player, you won’t create a competitive PvP community. But I think, there are so many people out there (especially from GW1) who are waiting for more competition.

Maybe Anet should watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjZYMI1zB9s

I think, they truly show what drives passion. And it’s not the rewards.

Of course, rewards are not bad. But in my opinion, they should only be a “nice to have” feature. But when I read this forum, I see too many people demanding for better rewards and Anet thus believes that only rewards would help to make sPvP more popular.

I agree with you sonic, but imho the ship is already sailed.

Even if Anet give us more competitive mode, game mode and tourney mode will the people who have left come back ? and how ?

I still don’t understand how a sequel of Gw1 can lack this much lo.

Well done Sonic, those points pretty much sum up everyone’s opinions on what needs to happen to improve the infrastructure of the spvp scene. Kudos to you and thank you for your post, since you’re a new player, but we’ve all seen this before.

Good post, regardless.

sonic.7592:

Locuz.2651:

bhagwad.4281:

I disagree about not focusing on rewards. Rewards are the incentive and more difficult rewards are statements of time invested, hard work, and skill.

So without rewards, 90% of people will stop playing. It doesn’t matter what the carrot is as long as it’s difficult to achieve, offers progression, and is publicly visible.

Agree with this. We have to keep in mind that this is an MMO and not a moba. MMO players are typically very loot driven.

I dont think there is anything negative about having a good reward structure.

And here I disagree. Loot driven are PvE player, but not PvP Player. A focus on rewards would only pull some PvE player who only play for dailys and then leave. But with these player, you won’t create a competitive PvP community. But I think, there are so many people out there (especially from GW1) who are waiting for more competition.

Maybe Anet should watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjZYMI1zB9s

I think, they truly show what drives passion. And it’s not the rewards.

Of course, rewards are not bad. But in my opinion, they should only be a “nice to have” feature. But when I read this forum, I see too many people demanding for better rewards and Anet thus believes that only rewards would help to make sPvP more popular.

I’m a GW1 PvP player and I used to play for rewards too. It’s not that it wasn’t fun by itself. It’s just that the carrot is the fun as well. Without the rewards I would not have played GW1 PvP.

The same is true of GW2. People are making an arbitrary distinction between PvE and PvP players whereas the truth is that we want people to play both modes. And after all, this is an MMO where the reward structure is key.

Bottom line: Just “fun” is all well and good. But that’s not the reason why we play an MMO. An MMO demands progression. It demands getting the newest and greatest skins, armor/whatever. Even the meagre ranks rewards are at least something.

Trust me – without rewards, the entire PvP playerbase will vanish. There’s no distinction between PvE and PvP players. Why should there be?

sminkiottone.6972:

I agree with you sonic, but imho the ship is already sailed.

Even if Anet give us more competitive mode, game mode and tourney mode will the people who have left come back ? and how ?

I still don’t understand how a sequel of Gw1 can lack this much lo.

Yeah, probably you’re right. But still, in many forums I see a lot of people saying that they are inactive, but would come back if there is anything new.

I think thy should at least change the solo and team arena. Somehow I don’t see the point of a team arena, when leaderboards are just showing the single player names.
Separate it in Solo/Team-Arena and Guild Arena (with possibility to take 1 or 2 guests). This would give people incentives to create sPvP guilds…

Chicago Jack.5647:

Well done Sonic, those points pretty much sum up everyone’s opinions on what needs to happen to improve the infrastructure of the spvp scene. Kudos to you and thank you for your post, since you’re a new player, but we’ve all seen this before.

Good post, regardless.

I was just reading the latests threads here and 80% of them were aboud rewards/glory. May I just summed up all points, but at least Arenanet gets reminded that there is something outside of rewards. And I have tried to focus on things, which should be easily implemented and is kind of “first aid” to refresh sPvP a bit.

The spvp ship sailed a long time ago, and as it remains there is little to no reasonable business incentive to waste more resources on a failed mini-game mode. They honestly shouldn’t even worry about spvp at all anymore, and just focus on the parts of the game that are successful – play to your strengths, and GW2 does have them (just not in spvp).

I always wondered why there was such a kitten for rewards and stuff. I miss the good old days when you played for fun, for competition, for self improvement.

OP, you’re right. Older games had no ingame rewards/incentive.

To be honest, I’m really surprised gw2 pvp failed. It’s wonderful to play. I guess it was the lack of tools for the community to create the competitive side, like other games had or got through modding. Shame MMO’s arent moddable. That may have been a saving grace.

There’s still a chance for gw2 to take off as an esport, really there is, cause all you need is a solid game and a community built up around it. Then the right person needs to step in and boom.

After having about a year break, it’s good to see gw2 still coming along. It’s slow but it’s still going, games competition keeps going for years. How many old games are still played competitively? No reason why gw2 can’t be one of them. Even if it’s scene is on the small side.

Kouryuu.4213:

I always wondered why there was such a kitten for rewards and stuff. I miss the good old days when you played for fun, for competition, for self improvement.

OP, you’re right. Older games had no ingame rewards/incentive.

To be honest, I’m really surprised gw2 pvp failed. It’s wonderful to play. I guess it was the lack of tools for the community to create the competitive side, like other games had or got through modding. Shame MMO’s arent moddable. That may have been a saving grace.

There’s still a chance for gw2 to take off as an esport, really there is, cause all you need is a solid game and a community built up around it. Then the right person needs to step in and boom.

After having about a year break, it’s good to see gw2 still coming along. It’s slow but it’s still going, games competition keeps going for years. How many old games are still played competitively? No reason why gw2 can’t be one of them. Even if it’s scene is on the small side.

Older games were not MMOs. An MMO is a fundamentally different type of game. The objective is not the game per se (though if the gameplay is fun, that’s a huge bonus naturally), but character progression. To get stronger. To look better. To build something. And that’s what rewards do in one way or another.

Guild Wars 2 is an MMO. Not Super Mario Bros.