Guild Wars 2

Seriously guys, learn to play the game a little, and things will work itself out. Here’s a little encounter I had with a poor player a few days ago, when my Thief was still using Dagger MH (paraphrased, of course)-

Idiot: “GG HS spamming me to death, noob”
Me: “You were using Dagger storm, and I’m D/P and Shbow, heartseeker is literally the only non autoattack skill I have that will hit you.”
Idiot: “I’m surprised you can type while you’re spamming 2 so much”
Me: “Regardless how you feel ‘Using the only ability i have that will hit you’ is pretty tactically sound in anyones book”
Idiot: Repeated nonsense about HS spamming, etc…

There’s 2 factors here. When you don’t understand how an ability works, its OP. I thought Mes was OP, until I learned how the class worked. I thought Frenzy->bull rush-> hundred blades was OP until I realized packing a stun break was more important that going glass cannon. As people learn, HS will become more understood, and people will learn its counters.

Factor 2 is that people parrot everything they hear, especially bad players. “I’ve been killed my HS spam, and everyone says its OP, so it must be!”. Seriously, the game hasn’t been out a month. Give it some time before you cry about how OP everything you don’t understand yet is.

WHENEVER I DIE SOMETHING IS OP

Everything I comment on on these boards I have played both sides of. I personally have played any class I comment on in both pve, wvw and spvp. Unlike other games anyone can spend a few hours in spvp as a level 80 and develop a decent grasp of any profession.

bump for great justice

CC breakers are usually always down in sPvP. And regardless, the damage thieves do is too high. You just can’t justify insane damage for any class by saying you should break stun.

I agree OP…and I don’t even play as a Thief! The sad thing is that everyone has the ability to create a class and instantly have access to lvl 80 with full gear/skills. This means that everyone should be learning other classes’ weaknessess/strengths first-hand.

Sure it sucks to get hit with multiple HS…especially by multiple Thieves, but really, it’s no difference than getting slammed by multiple anyone. Thieves are supposed to be good 1v1, that’s their specialty. Guess what, there is no 1v1 sPvP matches. Plenty of classes laugh at Thieves…befriend one in your next match and have them hang with you. OR…you see a thief attacking a teammate during a group battle…stop, target him, and watch him melt before doing any real damage.

Gentso.1852:

CC breakers are usually always down in sPvP. And regardless, the damage thieves do is too high. You just can’t justify insane damage for any class by saying you should break stun.

You are -exactly- the person this post is referencing. You don’t bring any empirical evidence, just vague notions and complaints. No examples, no explanations, just “Waah, thieves hit too hard.”
If a thief is hitting you that hard, he’s glass cannon, or you are – there are ways to counter; Learn them, or get used to the feeling that every spec/class that beats you is OP.

evilapprentice.6379:

Gentso.1852:

CC breakers are usually always down in sPvP. And regardless, the damage thieves do is too high. You just can’t justify insane damage for any class by saying you should break stun.

You are -exactly- the person this post is referencing. You don’t bring any empirical evidence, just vague notions and complaints. No examples, no explanations, just “Waah, thieves hit too hard.”
If a thief is hitting you that hard, he’s glass cannon, or you are – there are ways to counter; Learn them, or get used to the feeling that every spec/class that beats you is OP.

This is not accurate. I have builds for both Ranger and Warrior which are not glass cannons by any means but can down a person in seconds if I can get a stun or immobilize off on them.

The only thing I’d agree with you on is that this is not a thief specific problem. It’s a greater issue with the way several overall game mechanics interact:

1) Heavy hitting attacks designed with dodge/evade in mind
2) Large supply of CCs across all/most classes
3) Low supply of CC breaks per class
4) Team play where several players can chain CCs on an individual

Gentso.1852:

CC breakers are usually always down in sPvP. And regardless, the damage thieves do is too high. You just can’t justify insane damage for any class by saying you should break stun.

CC breakers all have significantly lower cooldowns than quickness skills which generate the burst. to be caught often means you were either fighting multiple people, in which case the point is irrelevant, or you’re wasting them on the first meaningless cripple/fear which hits you, and then when the real threat comes along you have nothing.

Its like going hunting to feed your starving family and you have only 1 bullet, and you shoot the first squirrel you see, and then you cant kill any buffalo because you’re out of bullets, and then your family starves, and then you blame buffalo for being OP.

Strand the Man.9261:

I agree OP…and I don’t even play as a Thief! The sad thing is that everyone has the ability to create a class and instantly have access to lvl 80 with full gear/skills. This means that everyone should be learning other classes’ weaknessess/strengths first-hand.

Sure it sucks to get hit with multiple HS…especially by multiple Thieves, but really, it’s no difference than getting slammed by multiple anyone. Thieves are supposed to be good 1v1, that’s their specialty. Guess what, there is no 1v1 sPvP matches. Plenty of classes laugh at Thieves…befriend one in your next match and have them hang with you. OR…you see a thief attacking a teammate during a group battle…stop, target him, and watch him melt before doing any real damage.

Thanks for the support! I do want to clarify though; I’m not defending HS because I’m a thief, I’m defending it because it isn’t OP. I don’t even use dagger MH, and I don’t see myself using it in the near future.

This thread is OP.

Skolops.2604:

evilapprentice.6379:

Gentso.1852:

CC breakers are usually always down in sPvP. And regardless, the damage thieves do is too high. You just can’t justify insane damage for any class by saying you should break stun.

You are -exactly- the person this post is referencing. You don’t bring any empirical evidence, just vague notions and complaints. No examples, no explanations, just “Waah, thieves hit too hard.”
If a thief is hitting you that hard, he’s glass cannon, or you are – there are ways to counter; Learn them, or get used to the feeling that every spec/class that beats you is OP.

This is not accurate. I have builds for both Ranger and Warrior which are not glass cannons by any means but can down a person in seconds if I can get a stun or immobilize off on them.

The only thing I’d agree with you on is that this is not a thief specific problem. It’s a greater issue with the way several overall game mechanics interact:

1) Heavy hitting attacks designed with dodge/evade in mind
2) Large supply of CCs across all/most classes
3) Low supply of CC breaks per class
4) Team play where several players can chain CCs on an individual

1) dodge should not be used liberally. if you’re dodging twice at the start of every fight and evading some useless autoattacks, and then you get blown up by evisercate…kinda on you right?
2) same as #1. if someone uses their CC breakers the first time they get slowed, or on meaningless fears, and then they dont have it up for when they really need it…its their own fault.
3) each class has at least 3 utility CC breaks, and they ALL have shorter CD than quickness burst skills
4) several players vs 1 player. who should win?

very well said, i had the same thing with the frenzy, but then i just evaded the stun / broke it… problem solved.
same thing with thieves. I came to a level of play where i kill the thief ~ 75 % of the fights. And if I lose a battle… so what? everyone loses, no need to start senseless q.q-“everything which beats me is OP”-Thread.

evilapprentice.6379:

Gentso.1852:

CC breakers are usually always down in sPvP. And regardless, the damage thieves do is too high. You just can’t justify insane damage for any class by saying you should break stun.

You are -exactly- the person this post is referencing. You don’t bring any empirical evidence, just vague notions and complaints. No examples, no explanations, just “Waah, thieves hit too hard.”
If a thief is hitting you that hard, he’s glass cannon, or you are – there are ways to counter; Learn them, or get used to the feeling that every spec/class that beats you is OP.

No, you’re just being difficult in trying to justify blatantly OP class. It’s sPvP, you’re in combat all of the time and forced to use CC breakers all the time. You thieves know you’ll be getting nerfed because it’s obvious.

Like everybody says, they can roll a thief and immediately start destroying everyone without even knowing what they’re doing. That in itself is flawed design, and it will be addressed.

And it’s not like it’s difficult to point out people who’ve already used their CC breakers as a thief to get easy free kills.

Gentso.1852:

evilapprentice.6379:

Gentso.1852:

CC breakers are usually always down in sPvP. And regardless, the damage thieves do is too high. You just can’t justify insane damage for any class by saying you should break stun.

You are -exactly- the person this post is referencing. You don’t bring any empirical evidence, just vague notions and complaints. No examples, no explanations, just “Waah, thieves hit too hard.”
If a thief is hitting you that hard, he’s glass cannon, or you are – there are ways to counter; Learn them, or get used to the feeling that every spec/class that beats you is OP.

No, you’re just being difficult in trying to justify blatantly OP class. It’s sPvP, you’re in combat all of the time and forced to use CC breakers all the time. You thieves know you’ll be getting nerfed because it’s obvious.

Like everybody says, they can roll a thief and immediately start destroying everyone without even knowing what they’re doing. That in itself is flawed design, and it will be addressed.

And it’s not like it’s difficult to point out people who’ve already used their CC breakers as a thief to get easy free kills.

Is that why I’ve been eating so many awful thieves alive? I’m not joking, the last 2 days I’ve been rolling up on thieves, fighting tactically, and watching them run around like chickens with their heads cut off. They have NO IDEA What to do when HS spam doesn’t auto-win them the fight. Its gotten to the point where some of them are so bad I just time my Pistol whips to hit them in the face right when their heartseeker hits, and watching them melt is priceless.

For your earlier point, no, your Ranger or Warrior wont own me if you stun me – I run a survivability spec for exactly that reason. Many a time I’ve eaten a frenzy→rush→HB
to the face because my stun breaks were down – sure it puts me at a disadvantage, but its still 100% possible to outplay the opposition and win the fight, which I’ve done multiple times (I’ve also lost some of those fights, but hey, cant win em all). If people want to survive, they can play survivability specs. If they want to rampage across the map, they can play Glass cannons, or high damage output specs without alot of CC breaking/forgiveness for their mistakes. You’ll get kills alot faster than me, but you’ll also be killed alot faster than me. That’s how the game works.

It takes zero effort to roll a lvl 80 SPvP character of any class/race and learn its abilities

You can’t argue from the perspective that people should always have their CC breaks available, because they won’t be. So it shouldn’t be an automatic victory if they do not have them.

Besides, you act like there’s much to understand about popping quickness and spamming HSS. The only class that it’s hard to understand what abilities are strong is Mesmer. The rest are really straight forward.

Ahlen.7591:

You can’t argue from the perspective that people should always have their CC breaks available, because they won’t be. So it shouldn’t be an automatic victory if they do not have them.

first, its not an automatic victory unless they are running around with 14k hp and cant absorb a burst.

also why dont they have their CC breaks available? if its because they’ve been forced to use them to save themselves from others, and then they get jumped by another guy, then they were outnumbered so too bad for them because losing to superior numbers is the way things work. if on the other hand they don’t have them because they wasted them on CC’s that wouldn’t have done anything to them anyway, then too bad, they used them poorly. most CC breakers have lower CDs than the 1 minute CD of quickness skills, so unless they are being misused they should be up in a 1 on 1.

And who will post this thread? A thief. Thiefs are not realy OP but they are easy to learn not hard to master. When you want to attack press the button 2-5 times. Simple as that. Its take no skills. Try play a staff ele and i ll see you in forums QQing about how different and hard this class is and every proff is OP.

Dallas.2536:

Skolops.2604:

evilapprentice.6379:

Gentso.1852:

CC breakers are usually always down in sPvP. And regardless, the damage thieves do is too high. You just can’t justify insane damage for any class by saying you should break stun.

You are -exactly- the person this post is referencing. You don’t bring any empirical evidence, just vague notions and complaints. No examples, no explanations, just “Waah, thieves hit too hard.”
If a thief is hitting you that hard, he’s glass cannon, or you are – there are ways to counter; Learn them, or get used to the feeling that every spec/class that beats you is OP.

This is not accurate. I have builds for both Ranger and Warrior which are not glass cannons by any means but can down a person in seconds if I can get a stun or immobilize off on them.

The only thing I’d agree with you on is that this is not a thief specific problem. It’s a greater issue with the way several overall game mechanics interact:

1) Heavy hitting attacks designed with dodge/evade in mind
2) Large supply of CCs across all/most classes
3) Low supply of CC breaks per class
4) Team play where several players can chain CCs on an individual

1) dodge should not be used liberally. if you’re dodging twice at the start of every fight and evading some useless autoattacks, and then you get blown up by evisercate…kinda on you right?
2) same as #1. if someone uses their CC breakers the first time they get slowed, or on meaningless fears, and then they dont have it up for when they really need it…its their own fault.
3) each class has at least 3 utility CC breaks, and they ALL have shorter CD than quickness burst skills
4) several players vs 1 player. who should win?

1) In a team fight, you need to dodge many things. Using them only for hard hitting attacks, you’re likely to run out.

2) Same as #1

3) This is demonstrably false. I know the Ranger best so I’ll just use them as an example, but I’m certain that it is not the only example which contradicts your claim. They have only 2 CC breaks, not 3. Moreover, its not only quickness you need to dodge. The 17k/3 second warrior rifle burst build I’ve brought up in a few threads has no quickness but enough immobilize to make you eat the whole burst. 100 Blades or heartseeker or any other big hitter hurt badly enough without quickness to warrant dodging, etc.

4) I don’t believe that in a 2 v 1, the 2 should always win. Most of the time, probably yes they should. However, part of what makes games more interesting is not knowing the outcome. If a game were designed such that 100% of the time, X players always loses to X+1 or more player, it would be a pretty boring game, either to watch or play. It would just be about making sure you show up with a numbers advantage to each fight and then what little drama there was would be over.

That said, even if I grant that 2 players should always beat 1 player, that doesn’t mean that the speed and ease with which they can do it in this game right now is good. When I’ve played other games, whether I was playing a tank or a squishy DPS, I could always at least hold out against 2 or 3 people for at least some period of time while hoping for backup. In this game, when 2 competent players show up against 1 they can stunlock/rootlock and kill him almost instantly. It’s just not interesting or fun, and it doesn’t lend itself to trying to any kind of smart or long range strategic play on the PvP maps, but encourages zerging and other least common denominator styles of play.

evilapprentice.6379:

Seriously guys, learn to play the game a little, and things will work itself out. Here’s a little encounter I had with a poor player a few days ago, when my Thief was still using Dagger MH (paraphrased, of course)-

Idiot: “GG HS spamming me to death, noob”
Me: “You were using Dagger storm, and I’m D/P and Shbow, heartseeker is literally the only non autoattack skill I have that will hit you.”
Idiot: “I’m surprised you can type while you’re spamming 2 so much”
Me: “Regardless how you feel ‘Using the only ability i have that will hit you’ is pretty tactically sound in anyones book”
Idiot: Repeated nonsense about HS spamming, etc…

There’s 2 factors here. When you don’t understand how an ability works, its OP. I thought Mes was OP, until I learned how the class worked. I thought Frenzy->bull rush-> hundred blades was OP until I realized packing a stun break was more important that going glass cannon. As people learn, HS will become more understood, and people will learn its counters.

Factor 2 is that people parrot everything they hear, especially bad players. “I’ve been killed my HS spam, and everyone says its OP, so it must be!”. Seriously, the game hasn’t been out a month. Give it some time before you cry about how OP everything you don’t understand yet is.

I have played all the classes now apart from necro ( dont really like their play style).

And i can say by far the easiest classes ive played are guardian and thief, anyone thinking they dont need an adjustment is kidding themselves. i also played all the beta’s. I was originally going to go for thief as my main from BWE1 but this is just a boring play style to me now, i preferred the stealthy type sword dagger thief. I have used both pistol whip build and Heart strike build.

I would like to see someone dodge my stealth into immobilise quickness pistolwhip. Even if they break it they have either already taken too much dmg and i autohit them to death while throwing dazes at them with skill 4 or restealth and repeat without quickness. Also most immobilise breakers have a longer cooldown than devourer poison. Rangers root break for example is on a 60 second cd 48 seconds while traited. Thiefs poison is 45 seconds and 36 seconds traited.

Even if the enemy breaks my immobilise like a “skilled” player and starts hitting me, pistol whip makes you evade all attacks while its being cast. Also the only class that can catch you if you want to escape is another thief.

I dont think a big nerf is in order but one of the aspects needs to be toned down either the great mobility/gap closer , high burst or the fact most thief ability’s make you evade attacks.

Or they could give every class a reliable immobilise breaker or make stun breakers remove immobilise too. Hell you cant even turn while immobilised to use a stun or knockback so you might as well be stunned.

Ahlen.7591:

You can’t argue from the perspective that people should always have their CC breaks available, because they won’t be. So it shouldn’t be an automatic victory if they do not have them.

Besides, you act like there’s much to understand about popping quickness and spamming HSS. The only class that it’s hard to understand what abilities are strong is Mesmer. The rest are really straight forward.

You cant argue from the perspective of it being a 1v1.
And for the record, unless you’ve played every class and understand it, then most of what other classes do will be hard to understand.

Skolops.2604:

1) In a team fight, you need to dodge many things. Using them only for hard hitting attacks, you’re likely to run out.

This is correct. However in a team fight, each team should be Focusing dmg on 1 player. If there is a HS Thief, he should be first priority since he dies quickly and puts out burst DPS. If your team didn’t focus or didn’t target him first, whoever he kills deserves to die because of bad teamplay on your side.

Skolops.2604:

3) This is demonstrably false. I know the Ranger best so I’ll just use them as an example, but I’m certain that it is not the only example which contradicts your claim. They have only 2 CC breaks, not 3. Moreover, its not only quickness you need to dodge. The 17k/3 second warrior rifle burst build I’ve brought up in a few threads has no quickness but enough immobilize to make you eat the whole burst. 100 Blades or heartseeker or any other big hitter hurt badly enough without quickness to warrant dodging, etc.

All of this is true. However you should be playing towards these players weaknesses. If it’s a Ranged Attack.. LoS! If it’s a HS Thief, Hinder/Root/Etc and create some space for yourself (even if you’re Melee). These fights aren’t Rock Em Sock Em robots. You’re not supposed to just stand in front of each other hitting buttons until the first one blows up. We all know that every situation is different but if you’re constantly in a bad situation against certain builds then you must first look at your own gameplay and see if there’s something wrong. Nobody is even attempting to do that in these threads.

Skolops.2604:

4) I don’t believe that in a 2 v 1, the 2 should always win. Most of the time, probably yes they should. However, part of what makes games more interesting is not knowing the outcome. If a game were designed such that 100% of the time, X players always loses to X+1 or more player, it would be a pretty boring game, either to watch or play. It would just be about making sure you show up with a numbers advantage to each fight and then what little drama there was would be over.

That said, even if I grant that 2 players should always beat 1 player, that doesn’t mean that the speed and ease with which they can do it in this game right now is good. When I’ve played other games, whether I was playing a tank or a squishy DPS, I could always at least hold out against 2 or 3 people for at least some period of time while hoping for backup. In this game, when 2 competent players show up against 1 they can stunlock/rootlock and kill him almost instantly. It’s just not interesting or fun, and it doesn’t lend itself to trying to any kind of smart or long range strategic play on the PvP maps, but encourages zerging and other least common denominator styles of play.

I have to say that performance when outnumbered relies a few different things. Your Spec, Your Runes, Jewels, and your actual decision making and gameplay all play a part in this. If you’re loading up your stats for DPS and not survivability you better bekittenagile because a Glass Cannon will eat you up. If you’re state and spec is for survivability you will still need to make sure you’re not burning defensive cd’s like crazy because 2 players with the right skill setups will still eat through you.

These classes haven’t had crazy sweeping changes since the last BWE yet the complaints are way crazier than anything I saw then.

Jest.9276:

Skolops.2604:

1) In a team fight, you need to dodge many things. Using them only for hard hitting attacks, you’re likely to run out.

This is correct. However in a team fight, each team should be Focusing dmg on 1 player. If there is a HS Thief, he should be first priority since he dies quickly and puts out burst DPS. If your team didn’t focus or didn’t target him first, whoever he kills deserves to die because of bad teamplay on your side.

snipping the rest

I have to say that performance when outnumbered relies a few different things. Your Spec, Your Runes, Jewels, and your actual decision making and gameplay all play a part in this. If you’re loading up your stats for DPS and not survivability you better bekittenagile because a Glass Cannon will eat you up. If you’re state and spec is for survivability you will still need to make sure you’re not burning defensive cd’s like crazy because 2 players with the right skill setups will still eat through you.

These classes haven’t had crazy sweeping changes since the last BWE yet the complaints are way crazier than anything I saw then. [/quote]

I keep coming back to the point that I think the way CC interacts with the dodge mechanic is the biggest problem. While I’d agree, for example, with all of your points about 90% of the way, I can’t say you’re quite correct because all of those ideas rely on not being CCed. Obviously we are going to be CCed at times. However, its currently far too easy to find yourself rooted, snared, or stunned with no way to respond to it.

It’s really an issue of scaling. The offensive skills/cooldowns are, for the most professions, far ahead of any defensive skills/cooldowns when looked at as a whole. In 1 v 1s, everything tends to work great (though a few things could be tweaked). In team fights, its just too easy to kill people with coordinated CC. It’s not even this easy in TOR, a game frequently ridiculed as having excess CC.

Skolops.2604:

I keep coming back to the point that I think the way CC interacts with the dodge mechanic is the biggest problem. While I’d agree, for example, with all of your points about 90% of the way, I can’t say you’re quite correct because all of those ideas rely on not being CCed. Obviously we are going to be CCed at times. However, its currently far too easy to find yourself rooted, snared, or stunned with no way to respond to it.

It’s really an issue of scaling. The offensive skills/cooldowns are, for the most professions, far ahead of any defensive skills/cooldowns when looked at as a whole. In 1 v 1s, everything tends to work great (though a few things could be tweaked). In team fights, its just too easy to kill people with coordinated CC. It’s not even this easy in TOR, a game frequently ridiculed as having excess CC.

I noticed that you’ve made that point in at least one other thread and while I personally don’t think it’s that bad, I also have no desire to argue against it. Your argument is sound with regards to how offensive vs. defensive skills/cd’s measure.

What all these complaints seem to come down to once we as a community sift through the hyperbole is the design intended by Anet which is based around TPvP and it’s effect on Hot Join SPvP. I don’t know that things can actually be adjusted so that one mode doesn’t get the short end of the stick and since Anet seem really vested in pushing TPvP I think people will need to either accept that SPvP is an “arcade mode” of sorts or they’ll just have to not SPvP and focus on TPvP instead.

it always cracks me up when i’m playing my gaurdian and a thief just jumps in and starts hsing

sometimes i’ll take the time to type out “?” in /say and just stand there for a while, then turn around and beast mode him

thiefs are op? lol

real talk tho – the biggest weakness they have is /not being able to finish people off/

see someone get killed by a thief? rez them gg

Dallas.2536:

1) dodge should not be used liberally. if you’re dodging twice at the start of every fight and evading some useless autoattacks, and then you get blown up by evisercate…kinda on you right?
2) same as #1. if someone uses their CC breakers the first time they get slowed, or on meaningless fears, and then they dont have it up for when they really need it…its their own fault.
3) each class has at least 3 utility CC breaks, and they ALL have shorter CD than quickness burst skills
4) several players vs 1 player. who should win?

@1+2 I agree with you, however

#3, Rangers do not have 3 stun breaks, they only have 2. One of which is a 60 second cooldown which is not shorter than quickness (also 60 seconds). Actually a lot of cc breaks have equal to or greater cooldowns than 60 seconds if you actually checked all the professions. Just to list a few:

Eles: Mist Form (75), Armor of Earth(90),
Necros: All of their cc breaks are 60 seconds or longer cd (spectral armor, spectral walk and plague signet)
Ranger: Signet of Renewal (60 sec)

The other problem is even though some cc breaks have good cooldowns like Lightning Reflexes for rangers it still doesn’t give stability/remove conditions/give block/add invulnerability so A simple immobilize or chained CC will easily beat it.

Seraphy.2374:

Ahlen.7591:

You can’t argue from the perspective that people should always have their CC breaks available, because they won’t be. So it shouldn’t be an automatic victory if they do not have them.

Besides, you act like there’s much to understand about popping quickness and spamming HSS. The only class that it’s hard to understand what abilities are strong is Mesmer. The rest are really straight forward.

You cant argue from the perspective of it being a 1v1.
And for the record, unless you’ve played every class and understand it, then most of what other classes do will be hard to understand.

How exactly is someone teleporting to you and stabbing you a difficult mechanic to understand?

Also, I’m the one arguing from the perspective of it NOT being 1v1, reading comprehension troubles?

You can’t argue from the perspective that people should always have their CC breaks available, because they won’t be. So it shouldn’t be an automatic victory if they do not have them.

evilapprentice.6379:

Seriously guys, learn to play the game a little, and things will work itself out. Here’s a little encounter I had with a poor player a few days ago, when my Thief was still using Dagger MH (paraphrased, of course)-

Idiot: “GG HS spamming me to death, noob”
Me: “You were using Dagger storm, and I’m D/P and Shbow, heartseeker is literally the only non autoattack skill I have that will hit you.”
Idiot: “I’m surprised you can type while you’re spamming 2 so much”
Me: “Regardless how you feel ‘Using the only ability i have that will hit you’ is pretty tactically sound in anyones book”
Idiot: Repeated nonsense about HS spamming, etc…

There’s 2 factors here. When you don’t understand how an ability works, its OP. I thought Mes was OP, until I learned how the class worked. I thought Frenzy->bull rush-> hundred blades was OP until I realized packing a stun break was more important that going glass cannon. As people learn, HS will become more understood, and people will learn its counters.

Factor 2 is that people parrot everything they hear, especially bad players. “I’ve been killed my HS spam, and everyone says its OP, so it must be!”. Seriously, the game hasn’t been out a month. Give it some time before you cry about how OP everything you don’t understand yet is.

except HS was OP and got nerfed. You sound like the typical please don’t nerf the only class I play type guy. Most people play lots of classes since you don’t have to level to 80 to pvp, so when the say something is OP they are speaking from experience in both facing the ability and using it themselves.

What’s there to understand about heartseeker? You press 2, it costs initiative, and it auto-tracks to the target, even a keyboard turner could get it to work. Not saying it’s op, but there’s not a whole lot to understand about it.

There’s not a whole lot to countering a HS spammer either any amount of blind and they’re useless, as a thief who doesn’t run PW or HS I can reliably beat a HS spammer every time 1v1. But I can’t do anything against retaliation that is my counter and I understand it.

No it is not so simple OP. Certain abilities are simply ANNOYING to deal with and detract form the fun of the game. There are ways to make abilities powerful but not frustating.

Im kinda sad they tuned down HS .. Maybe it was needed, but i really dont think it was.

Im sad mostly because it shows that whiners got listened (as always) and its not good news for the game.

Like OP said the problem is mass of new players without knowledge facing players that have faster learning curve or did beta test the game = people whine for overpowered skills/classes

People should be less arrogant and accept the fact that some players are better than them, at this time, and it should motivate them to improve.

But nowadays people want everything now and for free because they think they deserve it or whatever crap is in their mind.

So they cry then the game gets nerfed/unbalanced and we wait for the next game. rings a bell , anyone ?

CeCaKonVeu.5734:

Im kinda sad they tuned down HS .. Maybe it was needed, but i really dont think it was.

Im sad mostly because it shows that whiners got listened (as always) and its not good news for the game.

Like OP said the problem is mass of new players without knowledge facing players that have faster learning curve or did beta test the game = people whine for overpowered skills/classes

People should be less arrogant and accept the fact that some players are better than them, at this time, and it should motivate them to improve.

But nowadays people want everything now and for free because they think they deserve it or whatever crap is in their mind.

So they cry then the game gets nerfed/unbalanced and we wait for the next game. rings a bell , anyone ?

Wait, all of this coming from the person who is whining in two other threads about Entangle?