Guild Wars 2

What they used to be:

*Mists: chat spammed, so many ppl we needed overflow servers, almost never able to get individual time on practice dummies.
*Frees: random pugs, maybe a pro team here and there, but you’d be happy to queue into them because you got to be on TV in front of 1k viewers, mostly solo queue players in frees.
*Hotjoin: zergfest where noobs complain abt not being able to be on same team as friends.

What they are now:

*Mists: chat empty besides lfg/lfm, always the same 20 or so ppl in mists- i can recognize almost every player from my server if i queue into them in tournies, (manvil rock), depressingly lower in population.
*Frees: a bunch of baddies on voip stomping solo-queue players on forest then getting wrecked on 2nd on 3rd map by real teams.
*Hotjoin: dueling rooms.

what do you guys think about this? does the spvp population decline turn you off of the game?

what do u want me to say? needs more features, needs more balancing, and we need to wait for all of the above. whats the point of your post?

it’s not just the NA, also the EU

Yes they kittened up allot of their game.
Not only is the s/tPvP system generally a pain in the kitten and the gear/rewards generally terribly made, but the actual PvP itself isn’t anything noteworthy… they had some good ideas but they didn’t really turn them into attractive PvP. I’m not saying the combat is bad, it just lacks that draw every other PvP game I’ve played so far had (WAR, Rift, LoL, exc.)…

Anet kittened up and its debatable whether or not there is any chance of recovery for them…
Its tragic, we all know, but good thing DOTA 2 is releasing beta keys.

Yeah its pretty dead.

Hacking happens ALL the time in spvp/tpvp and they don’t even have a good way to even report it. It’s ridiculous at 4 teams I played in tpvp with all ready left the game to do slow implementation of balance fixes and the rampant incessant exploiting that occurs.

I haven’t seen any “hacking”. But there are a few notorious exploiters running amok without consequence.

garethh.3518:

I’m not saying the combat is bad, it just lacks that draw every other PvP game I’ve played so far had – Rift

Exactly what was attractive about Rift pvp?

The massive gear grind in order to be competitive…

People with insane gear smashing brand new lvl 50’s and thinking they were good at pvp?…

The whack-a-mole style balancing with utterly OP FOTM appearing every patch and dominating till the next 1.×...

No thanks.

GW2 PvP mechanics are much better than any other MMO around. There are things to fix and add, things that are in the works.
It’s not possible to release a game absolutely complete, there will always be extra things people ask for or that another game develops that you want to copy after release. The expectation generation needs to get a clue and some patience.

Ezrael.6859:

garethh.3518:

I’m not saying the combat is bad, it just lacks that draw every other PvP game I’ve played so far had – Rift

Exactly what was attractive about Rift pvp?

The massive gear grind in order to be competitive…

People with insane gear smashing brand new lvl 50’s and thinking they were good at pvp?…

The whack-a-mole style balancing with utterly OP FOTM appearing every patch and dominating till the next 1.×...

The balancing, gear difference / grind, etc were indeed all very poor in Rift.

On the other hand I’ve found none of the classes in GW2 to be as satisfying as playing say a chlorodom they just lack complextity, the classes largely feel a bit samey as they are essentially all DPS, with a bit of CC, a bit of healing, a bit of utility, sure you can push a build toward tankier or glass cannon, etc, but really that is far less variation than you get in other MMORPGs, especailly when it comes to healing, whcih is just a totally differnt playstyle that is not the in GW2. Overall the classes remind a bit of playing an ARPG like Torchlight.

I also miss the level of teamwork required (this goes even more for GW2 PvE) that proper healing, proper support involves.

Nor does it help that in terms of casual PvP (hotjoin) GW2 is truly awful (ZERG MOAR), they needed different sorts of maps, with different gameplay modes, designed for larger teams, if you have ambitions for e-sport type PvP, you need a playerbase to watch it, that involves getting non “leet” players to play and enjoy playing, plus a way for them to progress towards higher end PvP.

Ezrael.6859:

GW2 PvP mechanics are much better than any other MMO around.

They just seem simpler, not better, I guess it depends on your preference.

Ezrael.6859:

The expectation generation needs to get a clue and some patience.

Or people need to stop releasing bug ridden, half finished products, the games industry is a joke, some people need to stop making excuses for it.

At the end of the day, despite the obvious shortcomings of PvP in a game like Rift, the sPvP population has still collapsed faster in GW2, there is a reason for that.

There are two main problems that have driven people off.

1. Poor game balancing for the general public. ANet has made the decision to balance the game around the < 2% (RNG stat, but I doubt if it’s far off) of the player base who do paid tournaments regularly and now everyone is shocked that many from the other 98% are unhappy and have largely quit playing. Did you really think a bunch of newbs/noobs were going to take being told “L2P” by a dev without consequences? Worst design decision ever? I would say, it comes in second to making Frogloks a playable race.

2. Repetitive gameplay on one of the least fun game modes and worst designed maps I’ve seen in a game. sPvP consists of fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a V shape with forest critters, fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a V shape with sharks, fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a V shape with trebuchets, fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a… you get the point. The ‘stand in a circle as long as possible’ style of gameplay has resulted in some of the least entertaining gameplay in MMOs today with absurd bunker meta. At least part of this is on the players though. WAR scenarios were essentially stand in the circle and the game never devolved into max defense regen tanks standing on the flag for an entire SC.

when ladder comes out I know at least our team will be back. Probably a lot of others too!

Follidus.8027:

when ladder comes out I know at least our team will be back. Probably a lot of others too!

Yes, the NA PvP scene is not dead, they have simply returned to Valhalla to slumber and feed until ratings.

Ppl make this game bad.

ANet can change something, but ppl have to change.

I was a hardcore pvp’er, rank 40. Did not even touch pve since beta, and spent all my time playing both spvp and tpvp. I stopped playing pvp after the day they nerfed the thief to dust. I, unlike others, will not stand for crap like this.

Since then, I’ve been playing pve. I will not return to pvp until they buff the thief, and make the profession competitive like the rest. Also, I’m not returning to pvp until some radical improvements and additions are implemented to pvp. Right now pvp is bland, boring, and mindless. When I say pvp, I’m referring to both spvp and tpvp (free and paid).

shrewd.5319:

I stopped playing pvp after the day they nerfed the thief to dust. I, unlike others, will not stand for crap like this.

Thief got nerfed into the dust? Please explain, lolololol

Caffynated.5713:

There are two main problems that have driven people off.

1. Poor game balancing for the general public. ANet has made the decision to balance the game around the < 2% (RNG stat, but I doubt if it’s far off) of the player base who do paid tournaments regularly and now everyone is shocked that many from the other 98% are unhappy and have largely quit playing. Did you really think a bunch of newbs/noobs were going to take being told “L2P” by a dev without consequences? Worst design decision ever? I would say, it comes in second to making Frogloks a playable race.

2. Repetitive gameplay on one of the least fun game modes and worst designed maps I’ve seen in a game. sPvP consists of fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a V shape with forest critters, fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a V shape with sharks, fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a V shape with trebuchets, fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a… you get the point. The ‘stand in a circle as long as possible’ style of gameplay has resulted in some of the least entertaining gameplay in MMOs today with absurd bunker meta. At least part of this is on the players though. WAR scenarios were essentially stand in the circle and the game never devolved into max defense regen tanks standing on the flag for an entire SC.

I am going to have to agree with this post wholeheartedly.

And I’d like to add something regarding the ‘meta’: Defense should NEVER be > offense in game design, period. When you do you get games that FAIL. This is one of the many reasons Brink was considered one of the worst fps in recent history. Does Anet have any idea how frustrating it is to beat down on a guy and see his lifebar not move an inch? At least if you got destroyed by a per-nerf backstab assassin its over in a second and you respawn.

Caffynated.5713:

There are two main problems that have driven people off.

1. Poor game balancing for the general public. ANet has made the decision to balance the game around the < 2% (RNG stat, but I doubt if it’s far off) of the player base who do paid tournaments regularly and now everyone is shocked that many from the other 98% are unhappy and have largely quit playing. Did you really think a bunch of newbs/noobs were going to take being told “L2P” by a dev without consequences? Worst design decision ever? I would say, it comes in second to making Frogloks a playable race.

2. Repetitive gameplay on one of the least fun game modes and worst designed maps I’ve seen in a game. sPvP consists of fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a V shape with forest critters, fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a V shape with sharks, fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a V shape with trebuchets, fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a… you get the point. The ‘stand in a circle as long as possible’ style of gameplay has resulted in some of the least entertaining gameplay in MMOs today with absurd bunker meta. At least part of this is on the players though. WAR scenarios were essentially stand in the circle and the game never devolved into max defense regen tanks standing on the flag for an entire SC.

Perfect response….my sentiments exactly

Caffynated.5713:

There are two main problems that have driven people off.

1. Poor game balancing for the general public. ANet has made the decision to balance the game around the < 2% (RNG stat, but I doubt if it’s far off) of the player base who do paid tournaments regularly and now everyone is shocked that many from the other 98% are unhappy and have largely quit playing. Did you really think a bunch of newbs/noobs were going to take being told “L2P” by a dev without consequences? Worst design decision ever? I would say, it comes in second to making Frogloks a playable race.

2. Repetitive gameplay on one of the least fun game modes and worst designed maps I’ve seen in a game. sPvP consists of fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a V shape with forest critters, fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a V shape with sharks, fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a V shape with trebuchets, fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a… you get the point. The ‘stand in a circle as long as possible’ style of gameplay has resulted in some of the least entertaining gameplay in MMOs today with absurd bunker meta. At least part of this is on the players though. WAR scenarios were essentially stand in the circle and the game never devolved into max defense regen tanks standing on the flag for an entire SC.

^
Pretty much spot on.
/15char

Caffynated.5713:

There are two main problems that have driven people off.

1. Poor game balancing for the general public. ANet has made the decision to balance the game around the < 2% (RNG stat, but I doubt if it’s far off) of the player base who do paid tournaments regularly and now everyone is shocked that many from the other 98% are unhappy and have largely quit playing. Did you really think a bunch of newbs/noobs were going to take being told “L2P” by a dev without consequences? Worst design decision ever? I would say, it comes in second to making Frogloks a playable race.

L2P noob. Or go play single player or casual games like call of duty.
If you can’t take any game that takes skill you might as well go play mario kart. You are literally suggesting they give less reward for being good. Every class is viable with 20 apm at the level 90% of the players play. If you don’t have 20 apm, you might as well be sitting there twiddling your thumb.

Your first point was bad enough. Im not going to even comment on your second point. It made an already ignorant post just that much more ignorant.

Anet just doesn’t see any money in PvP so their support is slow.

They could have made this game into an Esport with more content and somewhat better balancing. If they came out with $1 000 000 tournies like LoL and Dota 2 did, they would have much more people interested.

Esrever.8613:

with 20 apm

And immediately you can be written off as a kitten.

lol, apm arguments. kids these days.

1. People aren’t leaving because of attempting to balance the game around top players. People are leaving because good teams are constantly matched up against lesser skilled/pug teams. It’s not fun for either side.

2. Objective based game types bring more strategy than something like a deathmatch. Having only 1 game type allows for better balancing. It’s no more repetitive than games like dota/lol/hon, starcraft, counter-strike, etc. All these games either have 1 map or a bunch of very similar maps with the same type of gameplay.

Saying each map in GW2 is the same because they all have 3 points in the shape of a v is like saying all competitive counter-strike maps are the same because they have 2 bomb sites. They’re not.

Follidus.8027:

2. Objective based game types bring more strategy than something like a deathmatch. Having only 1 game type allows for better balancing. It’s no more repetitive than games like dota/lol/hon, starcraft, counter-strike, etc. All these games either have 1 map or a bunch of very similar maps with the same type of gameplay.

Saying each map in GW2 is the same because they all have 3 points in the shape of a v is like saying all competitive counter-strike maps are the same because they have 2 bomb sites. They’re not.

I’d agree with you except the difference being that balance exists in counter-strike, in GW2 it most certainly does not. In CS, and most FPS games, you can turn the tide on your own vs a multitude of people due to the gameplay (just being better at an FPS). In GW2 you can do this as well if you play the RIGHT CLASS as only a couple are capable of 1vX battles and winning or surviving indefinately. Incidentally these are the most popular classes in the meta, which makes it balanced in that regard since it’s mostly mirror matches, overall though other classes are left in the dirt.

shrewd.5319:

I was a hardcore pvp’er, rank 40. Did not even touch pve since beta, and spent all my time playing both spvp and tpvp. I stopped playing pvp after the day they nerfed the thief to dust. I, unlike others, will not stand for crap like this.

Since then, I’ve been playing pve. I will not return to pvp until they buff the thief, and make the profession competitive like the rest. Also, I’m not returning to pvp until some radical improvements and additions are implemented to pvp. Right now pvp is bland, boring, and mindless. When I say pvp, I’m referring to both spvp and tpvp (free and paid).

>hardcore pvp’er
>able to play exactly 1 profession and ragequit bc of nerfs instead of adapting

pick one

Hmm…

Overflow servers were always meant to be for the massive overload of concurrent playtime expected directly after launch, which is why they are called “overflow” servers. Anet fully expected to need fewer and fewer overflow servers as time went on. So saying “there used to be heart of the mists overflows” is the same as saying “Anet called it perfectly.”

In other news, sounds like some people don’t like it when their favorite profession takes a nerf. Understandable, but the same exact patch fixed bunker bugs with eles and guardians. If you’re a thief, yes, you took a nerf, but in the same patch your counters got nerfed/fixed. I’m seeing far more thieves do well in tourneys now than before the last patch.

Yes, there are some big issues with PvP right now, but it’s not “dead.”

Caffynated.5713:

Did you really think a bunch of newbs/noobs were going to take being told “L2P” by a dev without consequences?

Lol, and yet the pro tpvp are complaining about rez signets, down states, and aoe. Then, they turn around and tell everyone else “Stop qqing and l2p. Our complaints are justified because we are pro and your complaints about hotjoin and free tournaments are bad because they will mess up our meta game play. The same meta we are already complaining about.”

Braxxus.2904:

Follidus.8027:

2. Objective based game types bring more strategy than something like a deathmatch. Having only 1 game type allows for better balancing. It’s no more repetitive than games like dota/lol/hon, starcraft, counter-strike, etc. All these games either have 1 map or a bunch of very similar maps with the same type of gameplay.

Saying each map in GW2 is the same because they all have 3 points in the shape of a v is like saying all competitive counter-strike maps are the same because they have 2 bomb sites. They’re not.

I’d agree with you except the difference being that balance exists in counter-strike, in GW2 it most certainly does not. In CS, and most FPS games, you can turn the tide on your own vs a multitude of people due to the gameplay (just being better at an FPS). In GW2 you can do this as well if you play the RIGHT CLASS as only a couple are capable of 1vX battles and winning or surviving indefinately. Incidentally these are the most popular classes in the meta, which makes it balanced in that regard since it’s mostly mirror matches, overall though other classes are left in the dirt.

I mean that’s cool and all, but I don’t see what balance has to do with the game being repetitive, which is what he was saying.

But I wouldn’t say counter-strike is perfectly balanced. People use 1 of 3 pistols, and 1 of 3 rifles. Very rarely will people use anything else, because most of the time it’s just better to save. Relating that to GW2, lets say the “worst class” is like a machine gun in CS. It sucks and is not worth using, so people don’t use it. That’s not really “balanced.”

Esrever.8613:

L2P noob. Or go play single player or casual games like call of duty.
If you can’t take any game that takes skill you might as well go play mario kart. You are literally suggesting they give less reward for being good. Every class is viable with 20 apm at the level 90% of the players play. If you don’t have 20 apm, you might as well be sitting there twiddling your thumb.

Your first point was bad enough. Im not going to even comment on your second point. It made an already ignorant post just that much more ignorant.

L2Read bad. You may have noticed that I’m still here. That should have given you a rather strong hint that I’m not one of the random people who was run off by the balance issues in the low – mid level game.

The game has to be balanced at all play levels or you’re going to destroy your population and the tournament level of play is going to choke to death. You need newbs to have fun so they play a lot, learn the game and get better so that they will eventually join the tournaments and keep the game alive. If they get pug stomped or face rolled by the same poorly balanced mechanics over and over, they’re just going to quit and you’re going to keep waiting 4-5 hours for a tournament pop where you fight the same people you fought in the last tournament.

You can bury your head in the sand and spout the mouth breather “l2p” nonsense all you want. The end result is that you end up with nobody to fight because you want to be an arrogant see you next Tuesday.

Don’t worry, once they get the advertising going EVERYONE will come flooding back…

Too many issues with Spvp to actually enjoy it for long periods of time…Eventually it may become actually entertaining…but for now I do it here and there…Maybe if we got real xp in Spvp to level up our alts…That at least would give me a real reason to play it other then fashion, just a thought

WVW is flourishing. There’s a pretty good small group (2v2-5v5) scene developing, at least in t1. It’s not yet DAOC but it’s a lot better than the steaming kitten that is stPVP, and even terrible design decisions like downed state/rallying and zero progression/ranks aren’t killing it.

I logged in one time after a couple of weeks break to check out colour system in pvp. Working nice, which is a fun feature. Both teams had 90% thieves… working as intended?
Well, listening to the state of pvp show it seems like continuing taking a break is a good idea… until january – february patches. Hopefully good things happen then.

Will people return even through some kind of heavy marketing? Well, people who left still know how long time it takes for ANet to fix things. Blockbug lasted way long, and having developers priorities that hotfixes are bad… and if they are done, some candy corn in the world is worth more to fix than the blockbug? I dont know how they came to that conclusion, but I cant see any player complain if there are more hotfixes rather than less and especially in a game that still got so many “childhood flaws” left. Traits and abilities are still bugging too much, what’s the problem with hotfixing for anyone? I can’t understand their philosophy, I really can’t. I haven’t played that many mmos, but enough to get used to hotfixes happening and quite fast and following forums in those game noone has posted complaints about hotfixes happening, more that players are expecting them to happen.
And I think that’s the main issue with bringing people back, that players remember that changes takes too long to implement… and bugs aren’t dealth with directly. And as the state of the pvp interview said… that’s how things will continue to be in this game.

It will be interesting to follow what happens, I was really excited for this game and I love playing asura and having pink dyes and I also like the playstyle with dodging and there are many good things around that. However now Im playing another new launched pvp only mmo, and with limited gametime there’s where I will be for quite a while. I want to return to GW2 but there’s at least some months left until it’s worth it, and I hope ANet makes it worth it, because all we people want in this forum is the spvp in this game to work and the game to succeed in that field… and we got our gametime to offer them if they do.

Follidus.8027:

1. People aren’t leaving because of attempting to balance the game around top players. People are leaving because good teams are constantly matched up against lesser skilled/pug teams. It’s not fun for either side.

2. Objective based game types bring more strategy than something like a deathmatch. Having only 1 game type allows for better balancing. It’s no more repetitive than games like dota/lol/hon, starcraft, counter-strike, etc. All these games either have 1 map or a bunch of very similar maps with the same type of gameplay.

Saying each map in GW2 is the same because they all have 3 points in the shape of a v is like saying all competitive counter-strike maps are the same because they have 2 bomb sites. They’re not.

while i agree with many of your points, there are tremendous differences between the repetitiveness of this game and the repetitiveness of games like LoL and starcraft, mainly that there’s a means to an end in those games. In gw2 there is nothing to aspire to in spvp, you simply grind your brains out doing frees so that you can grind your brains out doing paids, so that you can…. stay on a qp treadmill?. There’s no “high skill lvl” or “high rating” to aspire to in this game like there is in the others, this makes the game very dull very fast to the average pvper.

my 51 person spvp guild hassssss 2-3 ppl in it left that log on every once and a while….sad face

[Its conquest! get new game modes!]

Everyone knows why this game’s PvP has failed but until Anet does something about it, it will continue in this downward spiral.

I’m not sure i understand the complains about how the game is balanced toward a top player %

You realise it is not how it works right ? If anything they pay more attention to experienced players feedback, but there is a huge difference between this and not caring about an entire player base.
Sure there are still a lot of things that need attention but it’s not that different from how they handled things during GW1, as far as i remember they would balance pvp toward GvG mostly, and a few tweaks considering RA and HA.

I think we can’t expect them to balance the game around spvp thinking about how you can get killed in 3 seconds by a glass canon while standing exhausted in the middle of a zerg fest.

Follidus.8027:

. It’s no more repetitive than games like dota/lol/hon, starcraft, counter-strike, etc.

I agree with everything BUT counterstrike.

The game was only “repetitive” because there was no form of progression (hence the reason valve added achievement points).

Guess you missed the part where you could choose between both bomb and hostage maps (and even VIP maps back in the day). All maps in CS are very different from one another, and offered many more strats compared to what GW2 does atm.

spvp as a whole is extremely repetitive and boring after your 2k+ game… i have no idea how powerrr has made it to lvl 52 without being bored out of his mind. Not to mention, after about 11 pm EST… queue pops for paids is close to 25 minutes long.

I fear this patch may be the nail in the coffin

Caffynated.5713:

There are two main problems that have driven people off.

1. Poor game balancing for the general public. ANet has made the decision to balance the game around the < 2% (RNG stat, but I doubt if it’s far off) of the player base who do paid tournaments regularly and now everyone is shocked that many from the other 98% are unhappy and have largely quit playing. Did you really think a bunch of newbs/noobs were going to take being told “L2P” by a dev without consequences? Worst design decision ever? I would say, it comes in second to making Frogloks a playable race.

2. Repetitive gameplay on one of the least fun game modes and worst designed maps I’ve seen in a game. sPvP consists of fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a V shape with forest critters, fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a V shape with sharks, fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a V shape with trebuchets, fighting over 3 capture points arranged in a… you get the point. The ‘stand in a circle as long as possible’ style of gameplay has resulted in some of the least entertaining gameplay in MMOs today with absurd bunker meta. At least part of this is on the players though. WAR scenarios were essentially stand in the circle and the game never devolved into max defense regen tanks standing on the flag for an entire SC.

Amen.

Remember, class balance makes sense when you are playing with 4 other players on VoIP. If you don’t have a team, well kitten that, you may as well go play something else.

VladimirLem.5894:

Follidus.8027:

. It’s no more repetitive than games like dota/lol/hon, starcraft, counter-strike, etc.

I agree with everything BUT counterstrike.

The game was only “repetitive” because there was no form of progression (hence the reason valve added achievement points).

Guess you missed the part where you could choose between both bomb and hostage maps (and even VIP maps back in the day). All maps in CS are very different from one another, and offered many more strats compared to what GW2 does atm.

spvp as a whole is extremely repetitive and boring after your 2k+ game… i have no idea how powerrr has made it to lvl 52 without being bored out of his mind. Not to mention, after about 11 pm EST… queue pops for paids is close to 25 minutes long.

On the competitive scene of counter-strike only bomb/de_ maps are played, which is why I made the comparison. People will play thousands of games and get to rank 50+ in gw2 for the same reasons they’ll play hours upon hours in games like cs/sc/dota/lol/hon: because it’s fun. It doesn’t really get old when you’re playing competitively.

Part of it is a drive to keep becoming better at the game. It’s just fun. It seems like the people that get bored of the same old thing are the same people that don’t think they can improve all that much. I’m tired of people who think that they are “skill capped,” or at least “extremely good” and then blame their losses on things like other comps being overpowered. It’s such a kittenty mindset.

Honestly people say I’m one of the better guardians in NA, but I honestly I don’t think I’m that good at the game yet. I started keeping a list of things I can do to keep improving, and I’m adding more and taking stuff off as I go. I can do a lot of things better.

To give an example, one of the things I need to do better is watching the attunment swaps on elementalists since there’s a visual effect for it. Doing this can prepare you for what they can do. For example, when a d/d ele swaps to fire and dodges backwards, I can expect him to use burning speed (#3 skill) to burst me. If he goes to water then I don’t need to worry about it.

I have some more advanced things on the list, but I’m not about to give those away.

I had a PvP specific contacts list with well over a hundred players in it. All active. I never had to want for a team to play with. I also had a regular competitive team to practice with 4 to 5 nights a week.

Of that entire list, 6 players have logged in within the last two weeks. And none of them were in the mists.

I can’t even bring myself to log in anymore after what they did to Necro this patch. I just have no good reason to play. Even the Wintersday nonsense means nothing because all those people I was playing with are gone.

And the worst part is there is no mechanism in this game to match-make or socialize. Everything is frantic zerging in PvE and PvP for new players. There is no intuitive mechanism for mastery development. No intuitive mechanism to seek mentors in veteran players. The anonymous grouping features encourage the act of zerging the same things, but not of actual grouping and the development of play bonds.

Other people are just minions that you can’t control. And we all know how awesome the minions are.

This game is what happens when programmers design entertainment. Its amazing in the metrics but you can make anything look good in a bar graph. There is no social engineering because programmers are by and large not socially adept. No offense. But social butterflies don’t usually end up becoming programmers.

So how can they be expected to design and implement a socially dynamic environment? The answer is GW2 flash point questing. Which I love. Don’t get me wrong. But there also needs to be some way to build social groups outside of randomly joining a PuG with people who from their perspective, consider you a minion in their army of lewt or glory gathering.

What Anet failed to understand in their holy grail quest for E-sport is that it has to develop from the ground up, from a massive casual fan base that supports and maintains interest in the higher levels, not from the top down.

Your entire foundation for interest in the game on such a high platform is all the people that just do it to have fun, and they have to feel that they are being listened to and that the game is being made with them in mind, and then you have room and space for your elite tier to develop.

Right now it feels Anet balances professions around the top few percent, and they don’t care if this screws things up below, and if they keep this up, its going to ruin not only tPVP, but also WvW and PVE, which have actually been relative successes.

On top of that, Conquest only is just dreadfully redundant and samey.

muscarine.5136:

I’m not sure i understand the complains about how the game is balanced toward a top player %

You realise it is not how it works right ? If anything they pay more attention to experienced players feedback, but there is a huge difference between this and not caring about an entire player base.
Sure there are still a lot of things that need attention but it’s not that different from how they handled things during GW1, as far as i remember they would balance pvp toward GvG mostly, and a few tweaks considering RA and HA.

I think we can’t expect them to balance the game around spvp thinking about how you can get killed in 3 seconds by a glass canon while standing exhausted in the middle of a zerg fest.

I don’t think you’re quite understanding the argument people are making.

In WAR, I could take the worst player in the game, stick them on a tank and as long as they stayed close and guarded my DoK, they were an MVP candidate. I’m obviously not going to let my guard bot die, so they got to stay alive through the fight, feel useful and (most importantly) have some fun. That player is inevitably going to get better as they play, and as long as it is fun for them, they will continue to play.

I’m a terrible DOTA player. During the brief period that I tried it out, I was still able to enter “PROZ ONLEE!!!” matches and fill a roll that made me feel useful. Once, I was playing the Tauren hero and got zero kills. My use of stuns and the fissure skill to trap people got the other guy in my lane kills and we easily won the match despite my lack of overall skill and general ineptitude in scenarios where I had to fight 1v1.

In GW2 there is no role a newb/low skill player can fill in sPvP and feel useful. They log in, do a little fighting and then fall over dead in 1 second from CnMugD → Backstab or 2 seconds to hundred blades. They’re left going “wtf just happened?” You can argue that it is an L2P issue, but there has to be an opportunity for the new player to learn. Dying faster than they can react or even recognize that they’re being killed doesn’t create that opportunity so they’re never going to get better. They’re only going to die that way so many times and get the “L2P newb” response so many times before they give up and stop playing.

GW2 needs to be designed with all skill levels in mind. Otherwise, the game will continue to shrink and die. The only way to do that is to create a gameplay experience that is positive for new players. GW2 is essentially a giant kick in the balls for anyone who isn’t good at it, and they’re quiting instead of taking your “L2P” advice. It’s not going to be long before you can go days without getting a paid tourney or having to wait all day for a free tourney. At that point, even those of us who enjoy the game are going to quit and the game is going to die.