Guild Wars 2

…and then ask yourselves why you thought GW2 would be an exception?

No, WoW hardly counts because it had a fairly short run during MLG and then they ended it because balance was a joke.

Balance will always be a joke in MMO’s, no exceptions. Remember that.
More proof: Blizzard still haven’t achieved it after 9 years of WoW despite hundreds of tweaks & balance shuffles.

The biggest problem is that MMOs need to cater a broad audience. Focussing primarely on pvp would be too big of a risk for them to take.

I think balance in GW2 is actually relatively good compared to wow. The main negative i can come up with is that some professions require next to no effort to be succesfull, while others are on par or more difficult to play than anything youll find in wow.

So winning in skirmishes is often done with relatively cheap tactics (esp if you look at skyhammer) where it would be ideal if kills etc needed some setup.

Only thing I heard of is WoW. I that does not count I don’t know about others. MMO: Problem because of different gear from PvE. And if they now introduce the unlocking of skills in sPvP then they are ruining it and it will have that very same problem as the other MMOs and not possible to turn it into esports then.

The problem with your post is that you’re assuming that we need to follow someone else. GW2 is perfectly placed as a pioneer because 1. it offers one of the best combat systems of all MMOs to date 2. it is graphically approachable 3. it is still one of the most popular AAA titles out there.

That, in itself, means that GW2 has the playerbase and the potential viewerbase to break into esports. All it needs is a fun and approachable gametype and more support from Arenanet to streamers and players alike.

GW2 doesn’t have to follow WoW. If GW2 could learn from one title, it would actually be LoL. If Arenanet had Riot’s PR ability and Riot’s focus on intuitive and approachable gameplay, they would already have succeeded as an “esport”. The term is all relative, however, but I believe GW2 players can be as popular as SC2 players if this was done from the beginning. LoL’s popularity is unapproachable for any modern MMO given its accessibility in all aspects, but GW2 can offer something else – the GvG.

Have you watched Ragnarok Online’s GvGs back in the day? Even on private servers in the later years, WPE, Nabz, Beastmode, Finale, CoT and more were all fantastic guilds in their relative primes. While a large GvG format may not make it as a monetary esport, it can bring so much attention to GW2’s competitive scene, enough to give Arenanet a platform to constantly improve and revamp their game like Riot is doing with LoL, and allow the game to go strong for a decade.

Edit: To add to this, WoW’s competitive games are boring as hell to the average spectator. MMOs need the “massive” component for it to be interesting. There is not enough interesting skill variety and skill level difference in MMOs and the camera angle does not do it any favours either. Perhaps a spectator camera angle should be implemented if the competitive scene ever does becomes popular.

I would love watching a commentated-spectator based pvp matches. Hell, even commentated-spectator based wvw matches (one map, guild vs guild, 2 hours perhaps).

Just because others didn’t make it doesn’t mean GW2 can’t

You just need to make everything much more readable, by also reducing particle effects.

Answering both questions: the original Guild Wars.
Too bad, back then “e-sports” weren’t as big as today.

Even more bad is that Anet is not what it was before…

Wow’s top arena competitors do gather some esports fame.

Locuz.2651:

The biggest problem is that MMOs need to cater a broad audience. Focussing primarely on pvp would be too big of a risk for them to take.

I think balance in GW2 is actually relatively good compared to wow. The main negative i can come up with is that some professions require next to no effort to be succesfull, while others are on par or more difficult to play than anything youll find in wow.

So winning in skirmishes is often done with relatively cheap tactics (esp if you look at skyhammer) where it would be ideal if kills etc needed some setup.

That ^

For me esports doesn’t just mean MLG or no. In my eyes sports were created for the sake of entertainment and enjoyment. This means if a lot of people watch a video game, regardless if its in a MLG setting, and this game involves some form of PvP it is esports. While WoW is not MLG, it does bring in quite a lot of views PvP wise. Therefore it is doing pretty well as an esport.

Wintel.4873:

No, WoW hardly counts because it had a fairly short run during MLG and then they ended it because balance was a joke.

Not only was it a joke, but it only made to to MLG and was “eSports” because Blizzard forced it by paying insane amounts of money.

WoW went well-ish simply because there’s a whole bunch of people (or there was). Really, though, pushing to turn something into ESPAWTS just doesn’t work.

Make a fun game.
Make a balanced(a component of fun) game.
If ESPAWTS happens, then so be it.

Immensus.9732:

Locuz.2651:

The biggest problem is that MMOs need to cater a broad audience. Focussing primarely on pvp would be too big of a risk for them to take.

I think balance in GW2 is actually relatively good compared to wow. The main negative i can come up with is that some professions require next to no effort to be succesfull, while others are on par or more difficult to play than anything youll find in wow.

So winning in skirmishes is often done with relatively cheap tactics (esp if you look at skyhammer) where it would be ideal if kills etc needed some setup.

That ^

Yes, that statement is the truism of MMOs. However, I personally think that in this new era where video games have the opportunity to earn another aspect of legitimacy through the blossoming mainstream interest in competitive gaming, GW2 is uniquely placed to offer a good competitive game for viewers to enjoy. I think it would be folly for Arenanet to give up on their position so easily.

That is not to say that PvE will not remain the bread and butter of GW2. PvE will always be the drawcard for new gamers and casuals who are the lifeblood of MMOs. However, GW2 can also be entrenched as a popular game through its competitive scene in a way that PvE alone cannot bring – not anymore. Every single MMO since WoW has shown this. Arenanet cannot follow the same formula and hope that the trend of the last decade will continue into the future, especially when the new gaming trend has already shown itself to be esports.

WvW is probably the best endgame that GW2 has to offer because its content is primarily player-driven. Arenanet can definitely improve its PvE aspects, but it already has a huge pool of interested players to take WvW to the next competitive step – structured GvG. Make a map or gametype with specific objectives for a 15v15 for example. This objective should not be the current castle/keep style because it is boring for the viewer to watch since it encourages defence, split push and less confrontation. The dominion-style can work if there are limited objectives (2-3) such that it encourages confrontation.

On an additional note, one mistake that a lot of developers make is introducing a lot of map-specific gimmicks like special equipment (e.g. arrow carts, ballistas) into a deathmatch gametype. This is what Blizzard did with destructible rocks, watchtowers and gold mineral fields in SC2 and they have arguably not helped its viewability. Instead, the game flow should primarily be dictated by the players themselves, with the developer’s input into less intrusive additions like terrain.

so long as SPvP is married to PvE & WvW, there will be no success.

that was WoW’s demise just as much as it is GW2’s.

it’s pretty simple, but apparently inconceivable to devs. i actually feel insulted by excuses like, “we don’t want players to be confused when switching game modes,” because this is giving your players zero credit & assuming they are illiterate plebs.

if there is one thing humans do well, it’s to adapt.

now i am waiting for a developer to adapt to the concept of making a new class-based PvP game without the fail trappings of PvE.

the PvE in GW2 should consist of fighting AI in conquest maps, nothing else.

jimmyimo.2089:

Gw2’s potential for e-sport is terrible compared to Gw1. Also, a game that requires no skill should never be called a sport.

lets go back to rspike jimmy

love, ben ragemauler

@ppl who say this game takes no skill.

why is it that r1-20s aren’t doing better in SoloQ? if it truly takes no skill, they should be holding their own instead of getting 100-0’d.

why is ESL ruthlessly dominated by 2 teams? possibly a disparity in skill? it certainly isn’t the gear. ( obvious reply is that no real teams are left, but this still highlights a pronounced skill difference )

There is skill in gw2. People just don’t care for the amount of effort required to preform marginally better.

A good example would be a ranger. While I can beat shortbow rangers 1v1 by playing s/d a/t and watching empatic bond, I can also do 90% as well running shortbow and playing 111111111.

Inscentivise skill play and you will begin to see skilled play. Until then people will autopilot with the 90% efffective builds.

savov.3712:

Answering both questions: the original Guild Wars.
Too bad, back then “e-sports” weren’t as big as today.

Even more bad is that Anet is not what it was before…

Amen! If eSports was real in the times of the best PvP ever known to man, Gw1 would have blown all these garb games out of the water. But, to be honest, I’m glad that it was not an eSport. It would have ruined the game. Gw1 PvP was perfection.

Wintel.4873:

…and then ask yourselves why you thought GW2 would be an exception?

Because they made GW1.

andytango.2950:

The problem with your post is that you’re assuming that we need to follow someone else. GW2 is perfectly placed as a pioneer because 1. it offers one of the best combat systems of all MMOs to date 2. it is graphically approachable 3. it is still one of the most popular AAA titles out there.

That, in itself, means that GW2 has the playerbase and the potential viewerbase to break into esports. All it needs is a fun and approachable gametype and more support from Arenanet to streamers and players alike.

GW2 doesn’t have to follow WoW. If GW2 could learn from one title, it would actually be LoL. If Arenanet had Riot’s PR ability and Riot’s focus on intuitive and approachable gameplay, they would already have succeeded as an “esport”. The term is all relative, however, but I believe GW2 players can be as popular as SC2 players if this was done from the beginning. LoL’s popularity is unapproachable for any modern MMO given its accessibility in all aspects, but GW2 can offer something else – the GvG.

Have you watched Ragnarok Online’s GvGs back in the day? Even on private servers in the later years, WPE, Nabz, Beastmode, Finale, CoT and more were all fantastic guilds in their relative primes. While a large GvG format may not make it as a monetary esport, it can bring so much attention to GW2’s competitive scene, enough to give Arenanet a platform to constantly improve and revamp their game like Riot is doing with LoL, and allow the game to go strong for a decade.

Edit: To add to this, WoW’s competitive games are boring as hell to the average spectator. MMOs need the “massive” component for it to be interesting. There is not enough interesting skill variety and skill level difference in MMOs and the camera angle does not do it any favours either. Perhaps a spectator camera angle should be implemented if the competitive scene ever does becomes popular.

^ Please don’t pay attention to that guy. ANet already tried to emulate LoL hard at every corner. It failed hard.

Guild Wars 2 PvP Problems
- Conquest is it’s only game mode
- No GvG, which was a popular format within guilds as guilds wanted to proudly play and represent their guild
- Guild Halls brought attraction
- Intense playback feeds of the top GvG matches, which you can’t do either

GW1 has a lot of core features that I would assume would boost GW2 spvp popularity, none of which is in the game and seems to be ignored.

Until you give good rewards, good watchable coverage, perhaps some shout outs that a match is going on. I don’t really see spvp getting the attention they want it to have.

Wintel.4873:

…and then ask yourselves why you thought GW2 would be an exception?

??
GW1 was kitten close to an esport.
If the game had a lower entry level and some minor improvements, it easily could have been esport’ish.

That isn’t very hard, that is actually extremely easy, to take a game that is known to work and just make the UI better and gameplay easier to get into, but somehow Anet kittened that up something terrible.
The more competitive MMO PvP was not a bad idea, LoL and whatnot have already atracted the vast majority of the super competitive market, a more casual/PvE-splash-over (MMO style) PvP market still exists and has been waiting for a good game to latch on to…. GW2 could have been that.

It’s not and won’t ever be so this whole conversation doesn’t really matter, but yeah, there were good thoughts on both sides, and honestly I expected it to work….
But.
Bad, terrible, outright laudable, development ruined it all.

GW2 will never be a an eSprort. at least not until they removed stuff like stealth and moa form and complety rebalanced all professions from scratch

Ryan.9387:

There is skill in gw2. People just don’t care for the amount of effort required to preform marginally better.

A good example would be a ranger. While I can beat shortbow rangers 1v1 by playing s/d a/t and watching empatic bond, I can also do 90% as well running shortbow and playing 111111111.

Inscentivise skill play and you will begin to see skilled play. Until then people will autopilot with the 90% efffective builds.

What I always say: if you are in a big mid fight, and can’t litterarly say where you are, you are gonna spam. Enemies won’t see you either, so it comes to a build war: the build that can take/deal more damage wins.