Guild Wars 2

I already shared this idea like year ago, but with GS coming up and not having range autoattack aka no reliable life force generation i mentioned this idea here and there and some necro asked me to suggest again.
So basicly necro can never be serious PVP class because we are too reliant on class mechanic which is very RNG in pvp.
If you have 100% life force every fight then you are almost OP if 0% then you are underpowered. The problems comes from the fact that life force amount depends too much on factors that necro cant affect.
If enemy team has mesmer its easy to get lifeforce cause staff auto is gonna hit clones, if its kyhlo match you can just get lifeforce on boxes easy. If enemy team has double thief you are gonna be preassured every time you enter combat and basicly will have no life force most of time, same with ranger.

So the thing is that if necro could enter every fight with 50% life force the class would be good, something like cutting life force from 20 k to 10 k and letting it regenerate out of combat would make it good for PVP, with skills letting you get extra life force inside combat. Or keep the amount as it is but let it regenerate to 20% so we can at least engage and get more LF with other skills

And death shroud is same reason we will always be forced to play with staff in PVP, no other weapon lets you generate life force before engaging. If something like this change would happen it would open so many new builds for PVP necros and maybe even my dream of playing greatsword + dagger/dagger necro could happen.

Ops was meant in necro forum. Can mod pass it to Josh to pass it to John to pass it to Hugh to print it then give copies to anyone else who has saying in PVP and then move it to necro forums to never be seen by dev eyes?

Leeto.1570:

And death shroud is same reason we will always be forced to play with staff in PVP, no other weapon lets you generate life force before engaging.

How do you do this? I thought the staff attacks had to hit something to give life force.

Belial.9350:

Leeto.1570:

And death shroud is same reason we will always be forced to play with staff in PVP, no other weapon lets you generate life force before engaging.

How do you do this? I thought the staff attacks had to hit something to give life force.

Soul Marks trait.

Or waste a Flesh Wurm.

Belial.9350:

Leeto.1570:

And death shroud is same reason we will always be forced to play with staff in PVP, no other weapon lets you generate life force before engaging.

How do you do this? I thought the staff attacks had to hit something to give life force.

Ops by engaging i mean leaving safe zone. Like leaving high ground etc.

Completely agree, DS should be something necros start every fight with. It should also be something that doesn’t prevent your team from healing you. If this makes necros too strong, which it won’t, then you can balance from there. Also, making axe 900 range would help a ton because we would then have a ranged power weapon.

Life force isn’t hard to get…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_force

Here are all the things that grant life force that don’t require killing things.

pdavis.8031:

Life force isn’t hard to get…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_force

Here are all the things that grant life force that don’t require killing things.

Ok im trying to change myself so im not gonna say anything offense, but maybe you should think if you understand what topic is about and if your input is gonna improve the topic in some way. If you are not trolling and just new to PVP then i thank you for trying to help me.

pdavis.8031:

Life force isn’t hard to get…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_force

Here are all the things that grant life force that don’t require killing things.

All of those things can be easily countered, and a necro can easily be shutout by a thief that watches their spawn. The fact that you think life force is easy to get shows your lack of experience. What happens when the person your fighting disengages, or just doesn’t attack when you pop Spectral armor? What happens when they kite you on dagger? What happens when they dodge feast of corruption and ghastly claws. Against good opponents who are skilled at dodging and positioning LF is very hard to get. The only really reliable LF generator is a staff with soul marks because you get LF with or without landing the marks (they still have to go off, but if they are evaded or blocked you still get LF).

pdavis.8031:

Life force isn’t hard to get…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_force

Here are all the things that grant life force that don’t require killing things.

(lol) (lol) (lol)

Leeto.1570:

pdavis.8031:

Life force isn’t hard to get…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_force

Here are all the things that grant life force that don’t require killing things.

Ok im trying to change myself so im not gonna say anything offense, but maybe you should think if you understand what topic is about and if your input is gonna improve the topic in some way. If you are not trolling and just new to PVP then i thank you for trying to help me.

So the discussion that LF is based on RNG, and because it’s difficult to fill, makes it so the class feels way underpowered and easily rekt because without LF you can’t use your class mechanic to it’s full potential. correct?

It all depends on what your set up. I run necro is PvP often, and never really hard a problem gaining life force to be able to pop DS when needed.
I run staff and scepter/dagger (condi build).
If you are relying on DS for your build, it would make sense to use all the LF gaining abilities you can.
It also depends on your play style. For me, I generally do back line offense. Bomb the point with staff marks, switch to scepter and bomb AoE and use FoC after they have a few conditions on them. I also run signet of undeath.

You may not agree with my assessment, but from my experience, I’ve never had a problem with LF.

what i thought life force is flawless death defying mechanic :-D

Short of a complete redesign I agree with what you said Leeto.

However if they were to do a redesign I would love to see them scrap death shroud for something that uses the F1-F5 keys
Something like

F1: Life Blast (consume X life force to blast your enemy with dark magic. 1/2 second cast time. While casting this ability you take Y% less damage)
Would do around 55-60% of the current life blast damage since it has half the cast time.

F2: Shadow Armor (Consume X life force per second to absorb all incoming attacks)
CD TBD, can be traited to grant allies protection while channeling in exhcnage for increased cost.

F3: Doom (consume X life force to inflict fear (2 seconds) & torment (2 stacks for 6 seconds) on your enemy.
Cd 20 seconds.

F4: Dark Path (Consume X life force to teleport to the targeted area & inflict chill & weakness on nearby enemies)
15 second CD, 600 range (can be traited for more range) and 200 radius.

F5: Transfusion (Consume X life force per second to damage all nearby enemies & heal all nearby allies with each pulse)
Pulses 3 times per second for 3 seconds, Can be traited to apply a bleed on each pulse to enemies.

Then just stabilize/normalize life force generation & make the necro spawn with a set % of life force.

I think a slowly regenerating Life-Force pool would be a pretty good idea, since necro will be pretty much the main focus right off the bat, because of his lack of mobility in fights and poor defensive CD’s. Often you even have to use one of the defensive CD’s before the fight (flesh wurm) to get Life-Force and/or to at least somewhat compete with the mobility of other classes.

A very easy hotfix would also be to make the fleshwurm generate LF on creation: You could go into a fight and put it somewhere right before the fight starts, get some LF and still have the stunbreaker/teleport rdy.

RIP Necro
RIP PvP
RIP Anet

#dedgaem

I don’t keep up with “competitive” (huehuehue) anymore but im pretty sure there are no necros left on NA except Nos. And even Nos acknowledges that Necro is the worst class.

PS Leeto I luv u <3 not gey tho ur just my inspiration

PSS For my fans that are wondering where I went I’ve been playing league for a bit longer than 3 months now, started playing b4 I quit this game and now I’m hooked. Gonna hit 30 pretty soon, been playing with a lot of gold smurfs and they think I can hit silver on placements and get to gold for sure within a month and maybe plat. I’m gonna tryhard and get to diamond because I’m incredibly good at every game I play. But anyway, still have 8 levels to go. If anyone wants to add me on league send me a msg on this forum account.

Better or AoE LF gain doesn’t matter if you’re still getting tossed around that is if you have enough time to cast anything unless they keep adding passive trait to replace our skills.

They can fix LF all they want, its still an awfully designed system with unnecessary restrictions because back in beta no one knew how to play and ANet still has a massive disconnect with what needs to happen because “necromancers have two health bars”.

Leeto.1570:

pdavis.8031:

Life force isn’t hard to get…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_force

Here are all the things that grant life force that don’t require killing things.

Ok im trying to change myself so im not gonna say anything offense, but maybe you should think if you understand what topic is about and if your input is gonna improve the topic in some way. If you are not trolling and just new to PVP then i thank you for trying to help me.

This is the most honest and open attempt to be civil I’ve ever seen on any forum. It doesn’t matter that his resolve failed a few posts later; in fact, that just makes this more genuine.

Kudos, Leeto. Your attempts at changing do not go unnoticed.

Also, I would almost argue that Life Force is one of the better designed mechanics in the game. There’s play to it, and there’s counter-play to it. You can sap a Necro of his potential to gain Life Force by dodging the appropriate things, not attacking when Spectral Armor is up, etc. However, if the Necro plays his cards right and lands the appropriate abilities, he can be difficult to bring down.

Except the rest of the game around the Necro got out of hand, leaving a potentially cleverly designed mechanic to be viewed as terrible.

Regardless, I do think things need to change, because the world isn’t the ideal that they perhaps thought they’d create when they first started putting all of the pieces together. Having OOC-regenerating LF is a step in the right direction, imo.

Leeto.1570:

So the thing is that if necro could enter every fight with 50% life force the class would be good, something like cutting life force from 20 k to 10 k and letting it regenerate out of combat would make it good for PVP, with skills letting you get extra life force inside combat. Or keep the amount as it is but let it regenerate to 20% so we can at least engage and get more LF with other skills

AMAZING idea LEETO (thumbs up!)

Life force can be easily acquired with the right build. On my power necro i dont have issues keeping my bar full and majority of the time its always at 100%, if it depletes to 0 it takes about 3 seconds of combat to fill it back up (getting hit gives lifeforce, hitting others give lifeforce so enemies dodging impacts it very little and staff isnt required)

However building a necro without Life force gaining traits and abilities makes filling the bar a lot more difficult than it should be and that is something i dont completely agree with, i wouldnt mind seeing a passive regeneration of lifeforce either in a trait or just part of the necro’s normal mechanic. It could even be affected by healing power which might open up new stat builds on the necro?

This thread irks me. I know necro is in a pretty crappy place right now, but I do not think passive life force regen makes sense / is the answer. The whole point of life force is to take it from other things. So you absorb it through deaths around you or by directly attacking objects/enemies and taking it from them. The only thing I could see making sense is sacrificing your own health to gain life force, if you wanted to do it “out of combat”.

I never have been under the impression that life force is hard to build anyway. If anything I just find the lack of kiting ability on necros to be abhorrent. Compared to other classes, the options are extremely limited. That is what needs to be fixed.

Kyle.9523:

This thread irks me. I know necro is in a pretty crappy place right now, but I do not think passive life force regen makes sense / is the answer. The whole point of life force is to take it from other things. So you absorb it through deaths around you or by directly attacking objects/enemies and taking it from them. The only thing I could see making sense is sacrificing your own health to gain life force, if you wanted to do it “out of combat”.

I never have been under the impression that life force is hard to build anyway. If anything I just find the lack of kiting ability on necros to be abhorrent. Compared to other classes, the options are extremely limited. That is what needs to be fixed.

Ye draining life force from boxes in kyhlo makes a lot of sense.
But yes sacrificing HP for life force could be solution too but if you can do it out of combat then whats the point you are gonna instantly regen HP anyway.

Of course its all simple and easy. Need life force stay back and dps corpse instead of rotating where you are supposed to go, dont have enough life force to engage 1v1 just dont engage, cant get to team cause thief instantly jumps you and you got no LF to deal with him? Just call the team to you…. There is always a god kitten solution, the thing is that the need for these gimmicky solutions is what makes necro bad in PVP. Necro doesnt bring anything that amazing to team for them to actually bothering with this handicapped class.
I dont actively play with team, went one time for tourney and already said/heard all these lines.
“Cant take that 1v1 dont have enough life force”
“No you go middle i need to get life force”
“Its difficult to play in team with necro”
Improving death shroud and making it less RNG is not solution to all class problems but it would help tremendously.
Last time i checked Noscocs stream he was DPSing a box in Battle of Kyhlo! How can you imagine in your mind that all this hustle is fine.
Is it really so much to ask for access to 5 important skills of my class when they are off cooldown?

Leeto.1570:

If you have 100% life force every fight then you are almost OP if 0% then you are underpowered. The problems comes from the fact that life force amount depends too much on factors that necro cant affect.

You said this but you still want another Life force on auto. Fact is, if they apply Life force to the auto of the Greatsword, it will definitely not get any life force gain on the rest of the weapon unless they decide to let you have it through traits.
Prime example of that includes Staff and Dagger. I believe they do this just because they know how powerful necros can be at max life-force, just as you stated.

I think just having the Life force increase/decrease to 50% when out of combat would be good.

chibbi.3706:

I think just having the Life force increase/decrease to 50% when out of combat would be good.

+1

Life Force needs to be treated more like Adrenaline and less like only HP. It needs to be built more reliably like Adrenaline, and it needs to be spendable in more ways than just soaking up extra damage before you inevitably die. But passively gaining it is not the answer.

Bhawb.7408:

Life Force needs to be treated more like Adrenaline and less like only HP. It needs to be built more reliably like Adrenaline, and it needs to be spendable in more ways than just soaking up extra damage before you inevitably die. But passively gaining it is not the answer.

I don’t see why not. What’s the problem with a baseline of LF as a starting point for fights? If they consistently make LF regen up to X% and degen down to X% (at around the pace of Adrenaline), they can more realistically try to balance the experience.

Better LF gain doesn’t matter if you are the easiest target around no matter what spec, this passive regen will turn necro into a HP sponge DS already screams “Hit me!!” to the devs. Passive LF is just a temporary bandage on the wrong wound, you will still get tossed around,still won’t be able to cast your slow skills,still not hitting because of slow animation,all you are doing is prolonging the round or starting another one, it will turn necro into an avoidable tank giving them more reasons to keep healing weak on us as well other forms of sustain, even foes will get tired of fighting a HP sponge(PvE).

The more we pushed this second HP argument and it’s pool the less we have chances of getting active defenses,faster cast times etc. If you are just a HP sponge why do you need to do anything else?

Sagat.3285:

Better LF gain doesn’t matter if you are the easiest target around no matter what spec, this passive regen will turn necro into a HP sponge DS already screams “Hit me!!” to the devs. Passive LF is just a temporary bandage on the wrong wound, you will still get tossed around,still won’t be able to cast your slow skills,still not hitting because of slow animation,all you are doing is prolonging the round or starting another one, it will turn necro into an avoidable tank giving them more reasons to keep healing weak on us as well other forms of sustain, even foes will get tired of fighting a HP sponge(PvE).

The more we pushed this second HP argument and it’s pool the less we have chances of getting active defenses,faster cast times etc. If you are just a HP sponge why do you need to do anything else?

This.

A rework needs to be made in terms of weapon skills. Adding to life force will just make the fight longer with the same outcome.

Yeah / \ e e t 0 I fully agree with the changes, it would make the plays more interesting, maybe the designers can have more of a look, this would certainly reduce build wars.

Cogbyrn.7283:

I don’t see why not. What’s the problem with a baseline of LF as a starting point for fights? If they consistently make LF regen up to X% and degen down to X% (at around the pace of Adrenaline), they can more realistically try to balance the experience.

Its a bad band-aid to low LF generation (especially instant) and bad non-DS dependent defenses or defenses that can instantly put you into DS. If we solved the other issues DS faces there is no need for this, but by treating it as another HP bar we acquiesce to the idea that DS is nothing but another HP bar.

Bhawb.7408:

Cogbyrn.7283:

I don’t see why not. What’s the problem with a baseline of LF as a starting point for fights? If they consistently make LF regen up to X% and degen down to X% (at around the pace of Adrenaline), they can more realistically try to balance the experience.

Its a bad band-aid to low LF generation (especially instant) and bad non-DS dependent defenses or defenses that can instantly put you into DS. If we solved the other issues DS faces there is no need for this, but by treating it as another HP bar we acquiesce to the idea that DS is nothing but another HP bar.

I’m not really looking at it from the perspective of “if we fix the other things that are wrong, we don’t need to fix this”. Most classes start with a consistent baseline for their profession mechanic. Warriors typically start with no adrenaline, so them having high armor/HP combined with adrenaline/generating mechanics can be balanced. Thieves typically start with full initiative, and when they’re out of combat, it regenerates, giving them a consistent starting experience. Mesmers start without illusions up on a target. Elementalists start with all of their elements available. Guardians start with all of their virtues available.

Necros typically start with no LF, which is sometimes fine. If you are initiated on and take burst damage, you’re in an extra awful position, but otherwise if it was a consistent experience, it would be fine. That’s how it’s balanced. Except as a Necro, you can start a fight with 100% LF, because it doesn’t degen. Now suddenly it’s a completely different fight.

All I see with the persistence of LF is the ability for ANet to say “Well what if a Necro starts with 100% LF?” More “what if”. I’d rather they normalize it.

To be honest, all the current discussion is utterly pointless without knowing the elite specialization and how the traits are getting reworked.
Normalization is a good idea. Not only does it even fights for both necros and other professions, it also removes the information assymetry, because players can expect a necro to have a certain balanced threshold level of Life Force at the beginning of every fight provided they were out of combat and managed to regen it.

But the thing all the theorycrafters should understand is that we don’t know the elite spec and changing LF to the functionality proposed by many in this and other threads (the argument of a default 30% ooc LF level has circulated for at least a year on the necromancer forums) may be utterly broken and impossible to implement.

Just throwing it here so that people don’t get too fixated on the idea. It hasn’t happened so far, so there’s a chance there’s a reason for that and we just don’t know.

It would be pretty poetic if they adjusted the Necromancer profession mechanic for the elite spec such that they cannot be balanced similarly. The sort of poetry gremlins write when they are feeling mischievously inspired. The class needs fewer mutually-exclusive characteristics, not more.

But you’re right, new behavior could force a discussion like this to take a turn. Given its current incarnation though, I still think it’s a solid idea.

I also had another idea after giving a few more minutes to thinking about the idea of LF defaulting to a certain threshold.

My problem with the idea, and I think a dev would think similarly, is that it blends with the energy mechanic that the revenant seems to be getting. The LF mechanism proposed here is just another version of energy, with slightly different uses.

I think that a much better idea would be to make it possible for the necro to skillfully earn that LF using different mechanics they have and by ‘skillfully’ I don’t mean spamming staff and dagger autos. In such case, it is up to necro’s ability to pull off a ‘play’ on an opponent. The necro player should realise how important that play is to him succeeding and the opponent should be cautious as a counter-play not to feed the necro with, say, 30% LF.

An obvious idea that comes to mind is utlising those of necromancer mechanics that are quite unique to the profession, like boon corruption, condition pulling and condition transfers. ArenaNet tried to push the condi pull gameplay with the Plague Signet and the Unholy Martyr, but they haven’t succeeded with it yet (both are way too passive and random and consider them a viable gameplay – and it’s the revenant who’s getting the right, active implementation of that idea). If for example, I could target an ally and use the Plague Signet first to pull 5 conditions from that ally, and then as a second use in the skill sequence resend those conditions to an enemy, gaining 5% life force for every condition transferred if I succeed, then I’m all in and actually that’s exactly the way it worked in GW1.

Approaching it from another angle – if a warrior has a trait that let’s him reflect projectiles on block, then maybe necro should also get some life force generation on for example rezzing an ally, which is often connected to burning through your LF and tanking the damage. Isn’t that one of necro’s roles? If a thief is the class that most of the time shouldn’t rezz, then maybe the necro, as a tankier profession, could get something for actually utilizing this tankiness in a party-oriented way – in this case rezzing.

Removing the absolutely idiotic gameplay of attacking boxes on Kyhlo, spamming generation on downed players and balancing the game so that losing a teamfight or duel doesn’t hinder the necro by likely making him lose all life force, while making him incomparably stronger in case of winning, should be the goal of the balance team.
I’m just not convinced that converging LF to energy is the right approach.

Aaaaah, see I haven’t done enough research on Revenant. If that’s how the Revenant’s resource works, then I very well doubt they’ll change LF to work similarly.

I generally like your idea about incorporating some sort of skillful generation of LF, but I think of how strong initiation can be in an instant, and I wonder what sort of active mechanism Necros could use to not die horribly. If the variety of LF generation was large enough, then we would have options, and I love options.

As I think more about it, I sort of wish almost every ability had some sort of generation capacity. Like you mentioned, condi/boon manipulation could generate LF based on how many you transferred/converted. AoEs like the wells and the poison cloud could slowly generate LF on hit of enemies, or for certain wells, generate LF for the Necro as he/she stood inside of them. It doesn’t have to be a large amount, necessarily, but I would love to see more interplay with the profession mechanic instead of having to trait/utility/weapon spam for it.

If that means it has to degenerate faster, because it can be generated faster, I’d be fine with that. It just seems like a weird mechanic to be feast or famine like it seems to be.

leman.7682:

To be honest, all the current discussion is utterly pointless without knowing the elite specialization and how the traits are getting reworked.
Normalization is a good idea. Not only does it even fights for both necros and other professions, it also removes the information assymetry, because players can expect a necro to have a certain balanced threshold level of Life Force at the beginning of every fight provided they were out of combat and managed to regen it.

But the thing all the theorycrafters should understand is that we don’t know the elite spec and changing LF to the functionality proposed by many in this and other threads (the argument of a default 30% ooc LF level has circulated for at least a year on the necromancer forums) may be utterly broken and impossible to implement.

Just throwing it here so that people don’t get too fixated on the idea. It hasn’t happened so far, so there’s a chance there’s a reason for that and we just don’t know.

It’s the opposite actually they keep going in circles about DS and removing core features and adding them as traits…they are not showing proper progress. LF is changing only for the elite specialisation what about base necro? Their idea of traits first the necro were underwhelming we still can’t use our utilities so we are wasting traits to do it for us we still don’t have self healing in DS so we sacrifice our skill based healing for kitten passive miserable healing traits (Spite/U.Sanc.) slowly sucking our damage in comparison to others so we can facetank more.

The idea of DS as a partial HP bar is not bad whatsoever the idea that it should dominate is the worse, instead of boosting other sustain sources and DS more versatile they forced us into spam 1 DS because we lack utilities in it or flashing it for nonsense. I’m still surprised that someone could ever do or think about creating such a toxic dominance.

I actually think this is a very good idea. As it is currently, necro is one of the easiest targets to focus, but also one of the most important. If you let a necro get full life-force, it is basically game over. On the flip side, a necro with no life-force is a sitting duck. If you reduced the high-end value while allowing LF to even-out outside of combat, this would strike an excellent balance.

You cant run before you learn to walk.
It’s simple necros whole prof is balanced around having life force so remove the rare situations where we have 0 life force.

Sagat.3285:

BlackBeard.2873:

I actually think this is a very good idea. As it is currently, necro is one of the easiest targets to focus, but also one of the most important. If you let a necro get full life-force, it is basically game over. On the flip side, a necro with no life-force is a sitting duck. If you reduced the high-end value while allowing LF to even-out outside of combat, this would strike an excellent balance.

Thank you for ignoring the issue. From 0 to 100 your cast times are still the slowest,your siphon is still trash,your active defense is still trash,your sucky traits still are still doing what a signet’s passive do etc. Hell of a good balance eh? I’m not going to deny how many times I had to dodge while casting…if most of us are delusional about necro we strongly encourage the devs especially Jon to give us a PvP 101 about necro it will also help attract new players. There should no issue with that right?

There is no way a anet Dev is a better necro than most of the pvp-oriented necro players, and we know how to freakin use DS. The limitations don’t even become apparent until you pvp (or roam in wvw) a lot. If youre talking about pve, this game is faceroll easy unless you are discussing dungeons, then you need a decent group, in which the necro has no place.

0 lifeforce is like taking away all blocks, stealth, mobility, invulnerability, aegis, etc, from other players and making them depend on just TWO dodges for at least the first 60 seconds of a game, and even then if we are focused and shut down before we can even generate LF, its worse.

wanna see that necros getting shattering by costing their LF, instead clones like mesmer.

Gryph.8237:

Sagat.3285:

BlackBeard.2873:

I actually think this is a very good idea. As it is currently, necro is one of the easiest targets to focus, but also one of the most important. If you let a necro get full life-force, it is basically game over. On the flip side, a necro with no life-force is a sitting duck. If you reduced the high-end value while allowing LF to even-out outside of combat, this would strike an excellent balance.

Thank you for ignoring the issue. From 0 to 100 your cast times are still the slowest,your siphon is still trash,your active defense is still trash,your sucky traits still are still doing what a signet’s passive do etc. Hell of a good balance eh? I’m not going to deny how many times I had to dodge while casting…if most of us are delusional about necro we strongly encourage the devs especially Jon to give us a PvP 101 about necro it will also help attract new players. There should no issue with that right?

There is no way a anet Dev is a better necro than most of the pvp-oriented necro players, and we know how to freakin use DS. The limitations don’t even become apparent until you pvp (or roam in wvw) a lot. If youre talking about pve, this game is faceroll easy unless you are discussing dungeons, then you need a decent group, in which the necro has no place.

0 lifeforce is like taking away all blocks, stealth, mobility, invulnerability, aegis, etc, from other players and making them depend on just TWO dodges for at least the first 60 seconds of a game, and even then if we are focused and shut down before we can even generate LF, its worse.

I’m not sure what side you are taking. I see it as necro shouldn’t be weak(er) at 0 LF instead of necro need to start with some LF even if we do the issues are still there. We need less HP argument about DS less of it’s dominance so again it’s necro shouldn’t be weak(er) with 0 LF instead of necro start with some LF which is a just a laughable bandage.

I am not convinced that starting out with LF will be a good option. Even at 50% life force, it’s still enough to go into DS and start wrecking havoc, as well as starting out with more HP in the second bar.
Its very similar to how the warrior adrenaline was, with the super slow andrenaline cool down. This allowed them to enter into multiple fights in succession while maintaining full adrenaline. I feel it will be kind of the same thing. Basically allowing a necro to enter into fights with DS already activated, without having to do anything.

I wouldn’t be opposed to maybe increasing the LF gain from the various methods we already have at our disposal.
Something life buffing signet of undeath from 2% LF gain while in combat, to 5% LF gain while in combat, etc.

This will allow a necro to still quickly gain LF, to use it to its full potential, but prevent it from being almost OP right out of the gate.

There should be at least a little play involved before being able to enter into DS.

pdavis.8031:

I am not convinced that starting out with LF will be a good option. Even at 50% life force, it’s still enough to go into DS and start wrecking havoc, as well as starting out with more HP in the second bar.

The thief can start wrecking havoc and it doesn’t need to charge its initiative in battle.

Its very similar to how the warrior adrenaline was, with the super slow andrenaline cool down. This allowed them to enter into multiple fights in succession while maintaining full adrenaline. I feel it will be kind of the same thing. Basically allowing a necro to enter into fights with DS already activated, without having to do anything.

The thing is warrior is that they tied a powerfull move to adrenaline but with necromancers the situation is different. They tied their defense to life force, combine this with the lack of reliable burst life force generation. Necromancers fall into this viscious circle : I need more time to gather life force but I can’t more time because I have more life force. The best life force generating skill (spectral armor) doesn’t help because the more life force you gain, the more damage you took cancelling (a big part of) the advantage gained from spectral armor.

I wouldn’t be opposed to maybe increasing the LF gain from the various methods we already have at our disposal.
Something life buffing signet of undeath from 2% LF gain while in combat, to 5% LF gain while in combat, etc.

This will allow a necro to still quickly gain LF, to use it to its full potential, but prevent it from being almost OP right out of the gate.

It could work but the problem with more life force generation will result in far more durable necromancers during the whole fight unlike a life force reset.

pdavis.8031:

There should be at least a little play involved before being able to enter into DS.

Necromancer is the only class that needs a “little” play to access it’s class mechanic, the other classes get it either for free, or get an insta fill button.

fix forum bug please

Sagat.3285:

Gryph.8237:

Sagat.3285:

BlackBeard.2873:

I actually think this is a very good idea. As it is currently, necro is one of the easiest targets to focus, but also one of the most important. If you let a necro get full life-force, it is basically game over. On the flip side, a necro with no life-force is a sitting duck. If you reduced the high-end value while allowing LF to even-out outside of combat, this would strike an excellent balance.

Thank you for ignoring the issue. From 0 to 100 your cast times are still the slowest,your siphon is still trash,your active defense is still trash,your sucky traits still are still doing what a signet’s passive do etc. Hell of a good balance eh? I’m not going to deny how many times I had to dodge while casting…if most of us are delusional about necro we strongly encourage the devs especially Jon to give us a PvP 101 about necro it will also help attract new players. There should no issue with that right?

There is no way a anet Dev is a better necro than most of the pvp-oriented necro players, and we know how to freakin use DS. The limitations don’t even become apparent until you pvp (or roam in wvw) a lot. If youre talking about pve, this game is faceroll easy unless you are discussing dungeons, then you need a decent group, in which the necro has no place.

0 lifeforce is like taking away all blocks, stealth, mobility, invulnerability, aegis, etc, from other players and making them depend on just TWO dodges for at least the first 60 seconds of a game, and even then if we are focused and shut down before we can even generate LF, its worse.

I’m not sure what side you are taking. I see it as necro shouldn’t be weak(er) at 0 LF instead of necro need to start with some LF even if we do the issues are still there. We need less HP argument about DS less of it’s dominance so again it’s necro shouldn’t be weak(er) with 0 LF instead of necro start with some LF which is a just a laughable bandage.

Sorry sagat I totally support what you’re saying, and I wanted to add that the devs not only fail to understand our class and it’s obvious limitations, but could not even approach the skill level of some of our necro players. Thus, they could not school is in how to improve our play as we are bottle capped at upper echelons of play.

I think the main reason people who don’t play necro are failing to understand the problem here is that they aren’t aware of how much horribly longer and how much more effort it takes to build life force in comparison to adrenaline..

That and it leaves us extremely vulnerable when we have no shroud feeling almost defenseless

Zetsumei.4975:

I think the main reason people who don’t play necro are failing to understand the problem here is that they aren’t aware of how much horribly longer and how much more effort it takes to build life force in comparison to adrenaline..

That and it leaves us extremely vulnerable when we have no shroud feeling almost defenseless

I’m sorry, but a necro with full DS is a about 50x scarier than a warrior with full adrenaline.

Belial.9350:

Zetsumei.4975:

I think the main reason people who don’t play necro are failing to understand the problem here is that they aren’t aware of how much horribly longer and how much more effort it takes to build life force in comparison to adrenaline..

That and it leaves us extremely vulnerable when we have no shroud feeling almost defenseless

I’m sorry, but a necro with full DS is a about 50x scarier than a warrior with full adrenaline.

In 1v1 depending on your spec,also the warrior could possibly refill adrenaline 3 times before a necro refills DS or is let to.

Leeto.1570:

And death shroud is same reason we will always be forced to play with staff in PVP, no other weapon lets you generate life force before engaging. If something like this change would happen it would open so many new builds for PVP necros and maybe even my dream of playing greatsword + dagger/dagger necro could happen.

you play staff because having an instant AOE condi transfer + fear is OP as hell. I agree with the DS changes, even having it regen/degen to like 20% out of combat would make the class a lot faster and funner to play.