Guild Wars 2

So every match we [exploit] swap out minions for the skills we want to use so we gain lifeforce at the beginning of the match.

how about stopping this madness and instead of necro’s starting with 70% lifeforce make necros start a match with 50% lifeforce.

1) No more exploit
2) Fighting chance at first encounter for necro’s
3) Standard LF at beginning of the match means the opponent doesn’t have to guess howmuch lifeforce a necro has at the beginning of the match.
4) QoL no longer trowing a match because you were too slow swapping out a minion.
5) …
6) Profit.

Cheers.

Exactly.

-Life force resets/refils to 50% when out of combat.

It will lower min/max scenarios , and for balance the value can just be changed.

like we all exploit to 20% at start of EVERY MATCH. Does it make necro OP ? LOL NO, its basicaly a must to even have a miniature chance, zero lifeforce is just plain unfair.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

So every match we [exploit] swap out minions for the skills we want to use so we gain lifeforce at the beginning of the match.

how about stopping this madness and instead of necro’s starting with 70% lifeforce make necros start a match with 50% lifeforce.

1) No more exploit
2) Fighting chance at first encounter for necro’s
3) Standard LF at beginning of the match means the opponent doesn’t have to guess howmuch lifeforce a necro has at the beginning of the match.
4) QoL no longer trowing a match because you were too slow swapping out a minion.
5) …
6) Profit.

Cheers.

I find it both hilarious and depressing announcing that I will spawn minions, but am no minion master…

…. It is really bad, but I fear (hah) that Anet will likely only remove the option to gain lifeforce in the base, with no compensation

Flumek.9043:

Exactly.

-Life force resets to 50% when out of combat.

This actually sounds like a good idea, the amount of times I’ve lost a 1v1 2v2 3v3 or other situation because jimmybob necro has spammed Staff1 200 times 2 minutes earlier and filled up his super duper lifeforce bar to the brim.

Arenanet hasn’t thought too much about class mechanics and are just now getting around to adding them..

You can tell by the amount of warriors who have no idea what the 3 full little bars above their skill bar are because they’re constantly full and have no actual management associated.
(Thanks September 9th patch, for making this game less fun for the differently-able.)

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

So every match we [exploit] swap out minions for the skills we want to use so we gain lifeforce at the beginning of the match.

how about stopping this madness and instead of necro’s starting with 70% lifeforce make necros start a match with 50% lifeforce.

1) No more exploit
2) Fighting chance at first encounter for necro’s
3) Standard LF at beginning of the match means the opponent doesn’t have to guess howmuch lifeforce a necro has at the beginning of the match.
4) QoL no longer trowing a match because you were too slow swapping out a minion.
5) …
6) Profit.

Cheers.

No wonder some of those Necro are so tough at the beginning of the match -.-
Thanks for revealing the exploit since I’m still quite new to Necro and only use it in Hotjoin before.

I don’t really think it’s an exploit – no more than ranger swapping warhorn in and out to give swiftness or ele swapping staff in and out to blast some lightning fields. If they decide that sort of stuff isn’t on they’ll lock weapons and utilities for the pre-match 10" countdown.

manveruppd.7601:

I don’t really think it’s an exploit – no more than ranger swapping warhorn in and out to give swiftness or ele swapping staff in and out to blast some lightning fields. If they decide that sort of stuff isn’t on they’ll lock weapons and utilities for the pre-match 10" countdown.

They simply couldn’t do that because not everyone join right away. Some of them wait until last minute because they are away or they’re in the middle of other Hot-join match and they still want to switch around according to enemy’s team composition.

Also; people saying it’s an exploit, you’re just being silly now, it’s no more an exploit then anything else you can do pre-match like give 1 minute of swiftness or 20 seconds of 25 might.

I would like to see all pre-match buffing removed. Remove all boons/etc. and reset all cooldowns when the match begins. Then, if people still want to do a pre-game group buffing, it will need to be outside the gate (with the clock running) and with only their intended weapon sets.

Well we could reintroduce how minions are summoned ala gw1. You need a corpse….but then we would get the sacrifice player exploit to generate them before a match starts…oh wait…

(Yes, that happened in GW1)

Aomine.5012:

manveruppd.7601:

I don’t really think it’s an exploit – no more than ranger swapping warhorn in and out to give swiftness or ele swapping staff in and out to blast some lightning fields. If they decide that sort of stuff isn’t on they’ll lock weapons and utilities for the pre-match 10" countdown.

They simply couldn’t do that because not everyone join right away. Some of them wait until last minute because they are away or they’re in the middle of other Hot-join match and they still want to switch around according to enemy’s team composition.

Yeah but if you knew that your build would be locked then you just wouldn’t wait until the last minute, would you? You’d just go 10" earlier!

Also, slightly off-topic, but regardless of whatever else is done pre-match, I do think 0% LF is way too harsh. 25% like it used to be is fairer.

They could simply put some critters in the base.

Lol /15characters

Celtus.8456:

I would like to see all pre-match buffing removed. Remove all boons/etc. and reset all cooldowns when the match begins. Then, if people still want to do a pre-game group buffing, it will need to be outside the gate (with the clock running) and with only their intended weapon sets.

Nah, I’m cool with it - though maybe not swapping out weapons or skills during the period. Swapping out weapons negates any relevant cooldowns - Staff Ele lightning field is 40s cooldown, so someone who keeps their staff equipped will lose out on a powerful control skill for at least the start of their first encounter if they pop it to buff the party.

EDIT: oh, and aye I’m totally okay with nerfing the hell out of LF-generating exploits and giving Necromancers a non-zero base lifeforce (and regen/degen to this when out of combat for extended periods).

it’S the same with other professions/weapon sets.

just one example would be ele giving speed for the whole party and switching back to original weapin set afterwards. it’s either broken or intended and i would love to know which

It’s not an exploit. It’s just a way to bypass poor design. If your one of the sheeple that believe Anet understands how to balance their own game, then sure I could see how you would label it as an exploit.

citizankane.5723:

It’s not an exploit. It’s just a way to bypass poor design. If your one of the sheeple that believe Anet understands how to balance their own game, then sure I could see how you would label it as an exploit.

Whether or not the design is poor isn’t relevant – that this is a way to “bypass” the design is what makes it an exploit.

Your nuts probably havn’t dropped yet. One day you will realize you were not bred to live the american dream, you were bred to be a consumer and that’s exactly what you have become

Okay now you’ve lost me. I live in Scotland; why would I want to live the American Dream™? It sounds a bit daft.

cheese.4739:

citizankane.5723:

It’s not an exploit. It’s just a way to bypass poor design. If your one of the sheeple that believe Anet understands how to balance their own game, then sure I could see how you would label it as an exploit.

Whether or not the design is poor isn’t relevant – that this is a way to “bypass” the design is what makes it an exploit.

how is it “bypassing” anything? you’re assuming that this isn’t by design that Necro’s can kill their own minions for Life Force after having it reset to zero prior to the match starting.

why else give players 10s prior to the gates opening and the match starting? hint: because it gives players the chance to buff up

The American Dream is a set of ideals you don’t have to be american to want to be a part of. So your ancestors didn’t drop their nuts either and didn’t wanna take the boat ride?
Don’t hold it against them!

citizankane.5723:

Your nuts probably havn’t dropped yet. One day you will realize you were not bred to live the american dream, you were bred to be a consumer and that’s exactly what you have become

I don’t know if you realize this…

ad hominem: Meaning against the man. An arguer who uses ad hominems attacks the person instead of the argument. Whenever an arguer cannot defend his position with evidence, facts or reason, he or she may resort to attacking an opponent either through: labeling, straw man arguments, name calling, offensive remarks and anger.

It’s one of many logical fallacies you should probably avoid.

Welcome to the flock shanks There I fixed it for you

So what if it’s kitten exploit. It’s just a way to bypass poor design. If your one of the sheeple that believe Anet understands how to balance their own game, then sure I could see how you would label it as an exploit.

hackks.3687:

cheese.4739:

citizankane.5723:

It’s not an exploit. It’s just a way to bypass poor design. If your one of the sheeple that believe Anet understands how to balance their own game, then sure I could see how you would label it as an exploit.

Whether or not the design is poor isn’t relevant - that this is a way to "bypass" the design is what makes it an exploit.

how is it "bypassing" anything? you’re assuming that this isn’t by design that Necro’s can kill their own minions for Life Force after having it reset to zero prior to the match starting.

why else give players 10s prior to the gates opening and the match starting? hint: because it gives players the chance to buff up

Using skills while waiting for gates to open: puts those skills on cooldown, you can’t then swap those skills out again. I’m pretty sure this is the intended behaviour.

Using skills then equipping different weapons: you get to ignore the (possibly pretty long) cooldowns from the weapon skills you just cast, since you’re no longer using those weapons. You get to gain the effects of skills you don’t have equipped for the match... for at least some of the match.

Spawning minions then swapping the skills out again: doesn’t put the newly equipped skills on cooldown - so you have utility skills that are ready to use immediately - and generates life force that you’d otherwise have no way to get.

Honestly I’d like to see players locked into their class/build as of when they queued - particularly in soloq. There’s pretty much a second game of Reroll Wars 2 going on at the start of most matches, as well as the weapon/utility skillswap exploits used by many Eles and Necromancers (and others? Can’t quickly think of any others that really benefit apart from maybe one blast finisher).

since the servers are laggy, let’s pvp in the forums instead

enemy elementalist uses meteor shower - it is very effective!

your turn

and since you’re asking so nicely: every prof that has speed on an alternate weapon
set profits:

a few examples would be
warhorn on
warrior
ranger
necro

focus on mesmer

staff on
guardian
elementalist

etc.

citizankane.5723:

So your ancestors didn’t drop their nuts either and didn’t wanna take the boat ride?
Don’t hold it against them!

My ancestors were all very careful squirrels who made sure not to lose their carefully collected foodstuffs. Correct.

They were also prone to bouts of rather terrible seasickness.

I will judge them as much as I bleeding well want to for either of these things, thank you very much.

citizankane.5723:

So what if it’s kitten exploit. It’s just a way to bypass poor design. If your one of the sheeple that believe Anet understands how to balance their own game, then sure I could see how you would label it as an exploit.

See, this is something I can get behind.

As I said in my first post in this thread: I want necro life force exploits to be nerfed out of existence as long as they get some fair ’default level’ of life force to return to out of combat.
Exploiting this because not doing so gives an unfair disadvantage: sure, I agree with it. This method of life force generation is still an exploit that goes against the original design intentions.

In hotjoin, I actively encourage people to force autobalance in hotjoin whenever possible, because the current AB system is utterly terrible, and HJ is *not* a good introduction to PvP in any sense of the phrase. 8v8 was worse, sure, since it had even fewer similarities to the ranked arena setup than current HJ... but at least 7v8 wasn’t a guaranteed win in 97% (yes, I’ve pulled this percentage out of my meowbeast) of games for the team with higher numbers - in contrast to 4v5.
If we don’t draw attention to what’s wrong, it’s not going to get fixed - and exploiting poorly designed mechanics is a pretty good way to do this.

Toying with mechanics in such ways is still abuse of exploits and it’s silly to try to claim that it’s not.

Finding ways to breach a flawed system is normal, but yes changes are or have been needed for 2 kitten years.

And the thing I have issue with is that you said it’s not an exploit.

Change really is needed. So many things have gone unfixed since launch.

I am totally okay with the use of unintentional interactions to deal with these problems, and if ANet takes note it might possibly even lead to bugfixes or class mechanic overhauls or other improvements.

It’s still deliberately doing things that are definitely not included by design - and doing these things gives an advantage compared to a player with an identical spec who isn’t doing them.

It’s an exploit.

I’ve not once said that it’s OP. I’ve said that it’s an exploit. How useful or pointless or whatever doesn’t matter - it’s using game mechanics in unintended ways to gain any kind of an advantage over someone not doing so.

It doesn’t have to be a game-breaking godmode amount of life force to be an exploit.

Ok man better call scotland yard on this one. This kitten was not in the manifesto.

cheese.4739:

hackks.3687:

cheese.4739:

citizankane.5723:

It’s not an exploit. It’s just a way to bypass poor design. If your one of the sheeple that believe Anet understands how to balance their own game, then sure I could see how you would label it as an exploit.

Whether or not the design is poor isn’t relevant – that this is a way to “bypass” the design is what makes it an exploit.

how is it “bypassing” anything? you’re assuming that this isn’t by design that Necro’s can kill their own minions for Life Force after having it reset to zero prior to the match starting.

why else give players 10s prior to the gates opening and the match starting? hint: because it gives players the chance to buff up

Using skills while waiting for gates to open: puts those skills on cooldown, you can’t then swap those skills out again. I’m pretty sure this is the intended behaviour.

Using skills then equipping different weapons: you get to ignore the (possibly pretty long) cooldowns from the weapon skills you just cast, since you’re no longer using those weapons. You get to gain the effects of skills you don’t have equipped for the match… for at least some of the match.

Spawning minions then swapping the skills out again: doesn’t put the newly equipped skills on cooldown – so you have utility skills that are ready to use immediately – and generates life force that you’d otherwise have no way to get.

Honestly I’d like to see players locked into their class/build as of when they queued – particularly in soloq. There’s pretty much a second game of Reroll Wars 2 going on at the start of most matches, as well as the weapon/utility skillswap exploits used by many Eles and Necromancers (and others? Can’t quickly think of any others that really benefit apart from maybe one blast finisher).

Don’t forget the old signet warrior. Equip all signets when entering, swap weapon, swap utilities and precision signet affect remained intact. This was also a good one for rangers. equip all signets and get no use from them until you swapped them all back out again after match had started and then swap back to them.