Guild Wars 2

I would like to start by stating that I am a guardian main followed by necro and ele as my other top played classes in sPVP.

As of this latest patch (and a bit during the prev one) necro has become the laughing stop of sPVP.

I cannot imagine how a class can be allowed to fall in such a state and nothing to be done about it.

Lets see where the necro stands:

- Primary target in every single game
- No blocks/evades/dmg mitigation abilities
- No valid escape (wyrm teleport is easily countered and highly positional and precast dependent. If you get caught in the open while transitioning between nodes, you are dead, end of story.
- Power necro is too slow/telegraphed to be effective
- Condi necro has been nerfed to oblivion to offer any real challenge to most classes,
- Poor in 1v1. Warriors, thieves, mesmers and guardians completely trash it
- Poor in team fights (primary target with 0 party support features)

Anet, you need to decide what you want to do with the necromancer. The necro needs at least 1 viable spec, whether that’s condi or power.

Condi necro is probably the safest bet to improve as it fills a better niche and more thematic

play the ugly forgotten stepchild of necro, Reaper MM! :P

reaper is only bad in pugs

War Never Changes

If necro is as broken as you day – why is it the main target in every match?

Tiefsee.3647:

If necro is as broken as you day – why is it the main target in every match?

Cuz they are a free kill
Free + 5 points for your team
Free rally bot for your team?

I honestly dread when I have a necro on my team and rejoice when I see one on enemy team. Its funny

I guess ESL teams must take necros to give their enemies free kills then.

Hunter.4783:

Tiefsee.3647:

If necro is as broken as you day – why is it the main target in every match?

Cuz they are a free kill
Free + 5 points for your team
Free rally bot for your team?

I honestly dread when I have a necro on my team and rejoice when I see one on enemy team. Its funny

I see, you attack the weakest enemy first and ignore the 2-4 stronger and more dangerous enemys on the initial mid fight? I should copy that strategy….

Kuya.6495:

I guess ESL teams must take necros to give their enemies free kills then.

Necro is a class that is only good when supported by team mates, it is problematic when there is less and less incentive to play as a premade team. ESL is not representative of what are the ranked matchs.

You know that you can’t compare solo q necros and esl necros right?

Solo q necro → none support or care about you. Dead necro to any focus.
ESL necro → the best known teamplayers support their necro.

Solo players problem with necromancer: Its weak target on his own without good defenses. Can’t do nothing if your team don’t have good dps pressure / you don’t get any support.

Solo players will complain a lot about necromancer because its very hard and sometimes painful to play it with pugs that dont care about you and far from as viable as other classes for solo play. Players see this as they are not stuped so they make topic here.
This probably isn’t the last necro complain topic.

OP is right Necro/Reaper is in its worst state over past 4y now, and now with babysitting from Engi gone I really dont see it in ESL any longer either (maybe from Nos)

Power is bad due to really poor weapons
Condi is actually worst of all classes to apply condis (said apply only tho, not transfer aso.)

When the whining got bad I tried the meta necro. I was literally hitting the wrong skills half the time, and still had great aoe pressure, and the fat health pool will keep you up. They are awesome for group fights. Yeah you can’t chain blocks and invunerables, and you can’t disengage, but you can really rek the other team and keep the pressure up while they attack you. I played solo queue in both ranked and unranked. If you have a support with half a brain (doesn’t heal you in shroud) they are amazing.

Necro reaper should have way more faster skill cast times for what it lacks in sustain. half the cast times it has now on everything to make sure we HIT with what needs hitting. in a poorly designed class that already has near no mobility and sustain at least that should be confortable. I would love to see insta wells for ex since they are so easy to dodge unlike dh traps , and the stability and heall well insta cast on char instead of on target. thats where they are usefull and so much needed.

Kuya.6495:

I guess ESL teams must take necros to give their enemies free kills then.

Not quite, but I have heard that the ESL meta tends to accept that necros will generally get downed easily on their own and build teams that can compensate for this (support through a tempest, fast resses through engineers and rangers). The expectation among ESL teams is that the potential condi bomb makes up for the effort to keep them alive.

Generally speaking, what works in coordinated teams is generally not the same as what works in your typical soloqueue PUG, because a coordinated team can build to cover each other’s weaknesses. A soloqueue PUG has, at best, 75 seconds to identify and cover for weaknesses, and most people don’t bother. So builds that have distinct and exploitable weaknesses that are difficult to mitigate can suffer in soloqueue even if they’re meta at the ESL level.

Faux Play.6104:

When the whining got bad I tried the meta necro. I was literally hitting the wrong skills half the time, and still had great aoe pressure, and the fat health pool will keep you up. They are awesome for group fights. Yeah you can’t chain blocks and invunerables, and you can’t disengage, but you can really rek the other team and keep the pressure up while they attack you. I played solo queue in both ranked and unranked. If you have a support with half a brain (doesn’t heal you in shroud) they are amazing.

Apparently you were playing vs first-timers also. Any kind of real pressure will delete a necro off the map and is why they are picked off first. They lack stability and if you’re popping your DS early for it then you’re not going to survive in the long run anyway. Its a lose/lose. This means pretty much everything you throw at a necro will be worth it. Other classes can disengage quite easily and heal back up/re-engage. Other on-point professions have real lasting power (guards/engi). If you’ve played necro as long as the bulk of its community then you’d know the true pains. Soloq-ing necro is heavily reliant on allies being good and enemies being bad.

As for the previous comment about “picking off the weaker target”, absolutely. This is absolutely a strategy in most games actually. You want to pick off the one that is easier to kill. The ones that are harder to kill will sacrifice more to chance. This is also why necro’s are so frustrating to play as. Devs have pretty much made them the only profession that requires competent supportive allies to hold your hand. Not one build but the entire necro profession lacks tools to survive heavy focus fire.

Some people will say “anyone getting focused that hard will fall”. Yes and no. If a thief/mesmer/ranger gets focused that hard they’re just going to disengage. If a warrior/guardian/engi gets focused heavily they will use all their survival tools in a chain to make the fight take as long as possible. Hell engi / war can disengage just as easily as the others. Necromancer can’t really do this. The only other one that might suffer the same issues is revenant but still not like the necro.

I’d like to see that condi reaper that destroy absolutely everything in solo q. Where is the video? Also what is your skill level? As if you are low/low-mid skilled i can understand you are getting destroyed as this where necromancers shine killing low skilled players that eats all damage and don’t use control effects. The higher skill level you go the lower solo necromancer value becomes. You have to hope to get good teammates with good dps pressure or bad enemies that can’t focus you down.

I agree, necro goes down extremely easily. Nobody can seriously argue against that, but that does not make it a bad class. It just has to rely on support and it will be extremely effective. This does not just go for pro teams either, all good support players I see, including myself, will adjust their playstyle when there is a necro that needs support. For example, I usually go far or close at the start of games, depending where I predict the best 1v1 for me to take will be. When we have a necro and there are no Rangers/eles apart from me, I will go mid to ensure that my necro survives. It takes time to build CA at the very start of the game, but if the necro can’t survive that long I have a big water field and blast with my staff, a full condi clear and stealth with my smokes ale for the necro. Eles also have massive heals and condi clears. If the necro still manages to die, it is my fault, not their fault. That goes for any support player unless the necro is obviously making no attempt to avoid damage.

I guess what I am saying is that necro on its own without support is indeed a bad class, but necro is not intended to be played without support which is great in my opinion because it adds more depth to the game. Yes, it may be frustrating when the necro is not supported, but remember, it is your team mates mistake because necro just does not have the tools to survive on its own. It is designed to be supported.

Rolisteel.1375:

I’d like to see that condi reaper that destroy absolutely everything in solo q. Where is the video? Also what is your skill level? As if you are low/low-mid skilled i can understand you are getting destroyed as this where necromancers shine killing low skilled players that eats all damage and don’t use control effects. The higher skill level you go the lower solo necromancer value becomes. You have to hope to get good teammates with good dps pressure or bad enemies that can’t focus you down.

Hue, apply all the condis, wait a few seconds, and you got yourself a dead rev; As rev relies on other classes for condi clears and heals.

Necros are weak in normal q without esl ppl cause no support. This is what ppl always say. To be honest, if there is no esl player i don t need the support most of the cases, cause enemies are just too bad. You can kill druids, eles, scrappers, sometimes guards cause they have no clue about the game, revs with enough shroud and some warrs. If u are a good player you can deal with it most of the times and if u face strong opponents u need good teammates on any profession and so will get ur needed support.

Tiefsee.3647:

Hunter.4783:

Tiefsee.3647:

If necro is as broken as you day – why is it the main target in every match?

Cuz they are a free kill
Free + 5 points for your team
Free rally bot for your team?

I honestly dread when I have a necro on my team and rejoice when I see one on enemy team. Its funny

I see, you attack the weakest enemy first and ignore the 2-4 stronger and more dangerous enemys on the initial mid fight? I should copy that strategy….

I was always under the assumption it was cause necros start with 0% LF now. Necros were not always first targets until that change. Necros need LF as part of their damage mitigate so at the first team fight they are heavily focused, as that is when they are most vulnerable. I say let necros start the match with 25% LF as that is close to the standard for dueling arenas, and would give necros the ability to mitigate more of the initial focus and their team more room to support them. However after that initial engagement necro can still be pretty strong.

Though I have to agree I feel necro could use some love from anet, though not sure what I would want to see buffed other than starting LF. Maybe improved utility, some lowered cast times or something(I mean really we have the worst stability access in the game and some of the stupidest cast times on top of it…).

However I fear buffing necro damage too much may overbalance and lead to more nerfs later down due to QQ.

Here’s the thing: They poop tier in pubs and top tier in tourny. The meta is necro/druid/rev/ele, then either mes or guard. At higher mmr’s they might be better, and at low mmr you can squeze out cheesy 1v1’s you shouldn’t be able too.

No amount of support will ever made the terribly slow cast times better when there is so much CC currently in game.

suffish.4150:

I agree, necro goes down extremely easily. Nobody can seriously argue against that, but that does not make it a bad class. It just has to rely on support and it will be extremely effective.

The same argument was made about Warrior and Anet buffed it into the stratosphere anyway.

roamzero.9486:

suffish.4150:

I agree, necro goes down extremely easily. Nobody can seriously argue against that, but that does not make it a bad class. It just has to rely on support and it will be extremely effective.

The same argument was made about Warrior and Anet buffed it into the stratosphere anyway.

Yea, but the problem with warrior was that it did nowhere near the pressure necro can. Still, I’d rather see necro get more survivability but a bit less condi pressure.

Tiefsee.3647:

Hunter.4783:

Tiefsee.3647:

If necro is as broken as you day – why is it the main target in every match?

Cuz they are a free kill
Free + 5 points for your team
Free rally bot for your team?

I honestly dread when I have a necro on my team and rejoice when I see one on enemy team. Its funny

I see, you attack the weakest enemy first and ignore the 2-4 stronger and more dangerous enemys on the initial mid fight? I should copy that strategy….

We will be unstoppable.

I understand the complaint from necros, but I have to say that one of my favorite soloq matches was me as a shout support guard with 4 necros. I dished out all the aegises, protection, regen, and stability they needed, rezzed as needed, and they made Chernobyl look like a tanning salon. Fun times.

Ruru.1302:

reaper is only bad in pugs

Isnt that like 99% of PvP matches?

Tiefsee.3647:

I see, you attack the weakest enemy first and ignore the 2-4 stronger and more dangerous enemys on the initial mid fight? I should copy that strategy….

It’s a valid strat. Killing the weakest link right off the bat gives you a +1 advantage which you can then use to snowball the fight.

Targeting the strong classes first just results in your team taking way too much damage. Plus a freecasting necro can easily implode people with the corrupts.

Tomiyou.3790:

Yea, but the problem with warrior was that it did nowhere near the pressure necro can. Still, I’d rather see necro get more survivability but a bit less condi pressure.

Necro’s don’t have that much native condi pressure. Most of the necro “condi bombs” come from condi transfers and boon corrupts.

Necro viability right now is pinned exclusively on boon corrupts and poison access (for making rezzes harder)

Ask arena net for more passives/ AUTO PROCS, get carried like every other profession

After 4 years ppl still havent caught on that Anet just doesn’t like necromancers as much as the other classes. They love engineer, mesmer, guard etc.

This class will never be good lol. Not ever. They actually don’t want it to be good the way other classes are good.

Noone’s going to argue that point device, when it comes to balance there biased, it’s a sad truth, disgusting really, how some profession can have everything while others are expected to suffer without basics like stability/mobility ect.

There bright idea to power creep everything just made it worst.

So anet gave reapers chill damage leading to a season where necros were stacked because they hate necro so much. Got it.

Kuya.6495:

So anet gave reapers chill damage leading to a season where necros were stacked because they hate necro so much. Got it.

No, apparently you did not get anything.
“Necro was broken in one season so it is legit that now they are absolutely unplayable”. No, it is not.

Yes necro was having too much damage in this season, does not mean that nowadays it is the case anymore.

Even worse, it does not mean that it is what people are complaining about. The damage output/sustain ratio is clearly one of the lowest of all meta pvp spec and that is what people are complaining about. Being the OBVIOUS #1 target, no mater what is the situation, is what anoys people.

Hmm maybe i should take a look to necro… I usually find something that kills teams only thinking in “meta” patterns …. So try to make a build that looses you the fight if you target the necro first … Regardless if that build is good for anything else XD … Think in goals and don´t try to build a 1:1 hero …

Crinn.7864:

Tiefsee.3647:

I see, you attack the weakest enemy first and ignore the 2-4 stronger and more dangerous enemys on the initial mid fight? I should copy that strategy….

It’s a valid strat. Killing the weakest link right off the bat gives you a +1 advantage which you can then use to snowball the fight.

Targeting the strong classes first just results in your team taking way too much damage. Plus a freecasting necro can easily implode people with the corrupts.

Pretty much. It’s the same principle as focus fire in the first place: having two enemies that are half health isn’t as useful as having one that’s actually dead. Likewise, you’re better off having the most vulnerable target dead now than having the strongest target at 50%. Particularly if one of your allies is downed in the same timeframe and can rally of them.

Another consideration in the initial engagement is that it’s likely that the more LF the necro gets the chance to build up, the longer they’ll take to kill when you do get to them. So if it’s reasonably practical it’s best to clobber them early.

Two major issues I personally feel for necros are they start Spvp games with next to no life force which truly makes them the best target to focus down even above the majority of the copy paste comments about lack of evades blocks and invuls. Secondly their cast times on just about everything is abysmally long and screaming interrupt me. Those two things if anet chooses to look at this class for spvp and pretty much general pvp I feel are the most important.

zeight.5260:

Kuya.6495:

So anet gave reapers chill damage leading to a season where necros were stacked because they hate necro so much. Got it.

No, apparently you did not get anything.
“Necro was broken in one season so it is legit that now they are absolutely unplayable”. No, it is not.

Yes necro was having too much damage in this season, does not mean that nowadays it is the case anymore.

Even worse, it does not mean that it is what people are complaining about. The damage output/sustain ratio is clearly one of the lowest of all meta pvp spec and that is what people are complaining about. Being the OBVIOUS #1 target, no mater what is the situation, is what anoys people.

I was responding to people saying that anet hates necro and that is why it is in its current state by pointing out how absurd that is when placed in context.

Your reply has nothing to do with that.

Necromancer is fine. They are best class in a team fight to win you that team fight.

When I’m on my necro I prekite or enter the fight fashionably late. This works in PUG matches well to keep the pressure off.

Now when I see a,necro I go ham on them because they are a high priority target.

Ragion.2831:

Ruru.1302:

reaper is only bad in pugs

Isnt that like 99% of PvP matches?

More like 99.999%.

Then again, it’s a pointless argument. Saying necro is doing well in a premade team applies to litterally every other class as well. So “pugs” in that context obviously means that necros are one of the worst at carrying bad teams, regardless of wether they are pugs or not. In other news: water is wet.

Kuya.6495:

So anet gave reapers chill damage leading to a season where necros were stacked because they hate necro so much. Got it.

That reminds me of the original iteration of Dhuumfire. Proponents of it back then would argue that necros need so much damage because their survivability was terrible. Obvious nonsense. So Dhuumfire was changed, and Deathly Chills was changed for the same reasons. However, necro’s poor defense has remained mostly the same, and that’s the problem.

Azukas.1426:

Necromancer is fine. They are best class in a team fight to win you that team fight.

Unless they die first, which tends to happen rather often.

Azukas.1426:

When I’m on my necro I prekite or enter the fight fashionably late.

So you +1 an even fight when most opponents have half their skills on cooldown. How is this not something any other class can do as well?

Hunter.4783:

Tiefsee.3647:

If necro is as broken as you day – why is it the main target in every match?

Cuz they are a free kill
Free + 5 points for your team
Free rally bot for your team?

I honestly dread when I have a necro on my team and rejoice when I see one on enemy team. Its funny

LOL Necro are primary target because if you leave them alone they are deadly from range. If you let them build lifeforce they will be harder to kill. So kill them early and you remove a potentially dangerous player who will be harder to kill later on.

Spartacus.3192:

Hunter.4783:

Tiefsee.3647:

If necro is as broken as you day – why is it the main target in every match?

Cuz they are a free kill
Free + 5 points for your team
Free rally bot for your team?

I honestly dread when I have a necro on my team and rejoice when I see one on enemy team. Its funny

LOL Necro are primary target because if you leave them alone they are deadly from range. If you let them build lifeforce they will be harder to kill. So kill them early and you remove a potentially dangerous player who will be harder to kill later on.

^ This

Highlie.7641:

Ask arena net for more passives/ AUTO PROCS, get carried like every other profession

We actually have a lot of procs. They are just all offensive procs. :/

Spartacus.3192:

Hunter.4783:

Tiefsee.3647:

If necro is as broken as you day – why is it the main target in every match?

Cuz they are a free kill
Free + 5 points for your team
Free rally bot for your team?

I honestly dread when I have a necro on my team and rejoice when I see one on enemy team. Its funny

LOL Necro are primary target because if you leave them alone they are deadly from range. If you let them build lifeforce they will be harder to kill. So kill them early and you remove a potentially dangerous player who will be harder to kill later on.

i can tell u that you are wrong, the reason players target the necro its because its the easiest class to focus , u know that the necro is not gonna block any of your atacks , (like moa and such ) u know that hes not going to go invul either, hes just going to take all that damage AND he has no life force at start of the fights, any class that is free casting hes going to do some massive damage , so lets look at the real problem here , necros are super easy to lock down and having no way to negate damage in anywaym makes them the primary target , THIS is the real reason u focus the necro , nothing else.
u can take any player that plays necro , i mean really any player , u focus him with a rev and thief at the start of the fight , and he will insta die , no way to survive with out peeling, and that only happens to the necro , no other class has this problem, any other class has some way to negate damage , either by blocks ,reflects, invuls or stealth only the necro doesnt.
Atm necro hes the class that rely the most on team players to peel and support , folowed by thief, this my friend is a fact.

Supreme.3164:

Spartacus.3192:

Hunter.4783:

Tiefsee.3647:

If necro is as broken as you day – why is it the main target in every match?

Cuz they are a free kill
Free + 5 points for your team
Free rally bot for your team?

I honestly dread when I have a necro on my team and rejoice when I see one on enemy team. Its funny

LOL Necro are primary target because if you leave them alone they are deadly from range. If you let them build lifeforce they will be harder to kill. So kill them early and you remove a potentially dangerous player who will be harder to kill later on.

^ This

You two are using flawed logic or maybe just missinterpeting things.

a) Lifeforce = harder to kill
If you have focused ANY other class to half hp and half cooldowns, THEN a full shroud necro enters fight ….. YOU STILL SHIFT FOCUS AND KILL THE NECRO others can randomly escape or live too long, necro is guaranteed kill in next few seconds.

Generally, you ALWAYS take a fast kill and +1 from there, not focusing the threat/build counter. Thats why you switch focus to support healbot ele in middle, and whoever blows too much defense gets ganked in next 5 seconds. Not relentlessly focus on enemy dps just cz they can do damage.

b) Danger from range
Its a lost art, there is no more range kiting in gw2.
You could kite on flat terrain with cripples, but its irrelevant now. Perma resistance, low CD ports, leaps ignoring cripple….
Its all about LOS and teleport up terrain kiting now.

c) Danger from range pt2
Its not even a ranged threat, it loses pretty muich all ranged standoffs. Sooner or later the necro requires a stillstanding dummy to go melee on. Its still a hybrid who must hover around 600 range to be effective

flow.6043:

Ragion.2831:

Ruru.1302:

reaper is only bad in pugs

Isnt that like 99% of PvP matches?

More like 99.999%.

Then again, it’s a pointless argument. Saying necro is doing well in a premade team applies to litterally every other class as well. So “pugs” in that context obviously means that necros are one of the worst at carrying bad teams, regardless of wether they are pugs or not. In other news: water is wet.

Kuya.6495:

So anet gave reapers chill damage leading to a season where necros were stacked because they hate necro so much. Got it.

That reminds me of the original iteration of Dhuumfire. Proponents of it back then would argue that necros need so much damage because their survivability was terrible. Obvious nonsense. So Dhuumfire was changed, and Deathly Chills was changed for the same reasons. However, necro’s poor defense has remained mostly the same, and that’s the problem.

Azukas.1426:

Necromancer is fine. They are best class in a team fight to win you that team fight.

Unless they die first, which tends to happen rather often.

Azukas.1426:

When I’m on my necro I prekite or enter the fight fashionably late.

So you +1 an even fight when most opponents have half their skills on cooldown. How is this not something any other class can do as well?

You guys just really want to complain and not listen to what’s really going on.

Look you just enter the fray after the actual team chooses their target and you keep on the edges dropping your damage to build LF

This is for PUG play

Kuya.6495:

I was responding to people saying that anet hates necro and that is why it is in its current state by pointing out how absurd that is when placed in context.

Your reply has nothing to do with that.

For some context:

- Necro’s have had the longest lasting bugs in the game

- They are the ONLY class who’s HoT elite weapon is trash in spvp. (there isn’t even ONE meta build on metabattle that uses it. All other classes have a meta build which use their HoT elite weapon)

- Have you ever seen the SoV content patch video? Their faces said it all. This was one of the first and only times I actually visibly saw the lack of enthusiasm in the developers faces for a profession.

- I’ve never seen so much backlash on another profession forum about the state of their profession whether it be in sPvP or PvE.

- Target the necro first.

So lets get back to this “target the necromancer first”. Necromancers have the least amount of active defenses to escape or disengage a fight. They have no invulns or blocks or stealths or evades.

They also have second to the least stability along side some of the longest casting times ever. This means their skills are easiest to interrupt and all CC will have a higher success rate vs the necro.

Its just simply disingenuous when people say “its cuz necros do damages” is the reason they are focused so hard. The real reasons are obvious; just as obvious to necro mains as they are to people who’ve been focusing them first for four years.

Azukas.1426:

You guys just really want to complain and not listen to what’s really going on.

Ok, I’m listening. What’s really going on?

because people complain to much here is how to fight necro:
do not stand in circles for long period of time aim for them not pets or get in face, also shroud is burnable just hit fast and lots of condi (reason nobody runs a vitality build sets/runes half the time so pretty much shroud is weak)
guardian (perfered class i use) get in face with Judge’s intervention put traps down then smack with hammer done
engi use fire thats it
ranger have pet chase spam bow
warrior just be a warrior and rush them
mesmer shatter clones works well
thief stay behind and smack after they drop shroud
last learn to dodge or start learning your classes strength also stop trying to solo stay in a group

Im sorry but Necro is the only class in the game that gets stronger the longer it lasts in fights which is WHY it gets focused early. To kill a DH is just as hard at start of fight as it is later in the fight. Same as Ele or Mesmer etc. Necro is the class that is easiest to kill early on rather than later on so of course it will get focused first. Its just simple efficiency. Kill something that’s easier to kill earlier in the fight.