Guild Wars 2

This post refers to conquest, so it’s here on the PvP forums.

Every necromancer build uses this thing atm and it’s really brain dead. Just got rolled over by a team of 5 scepter necros.

Overall, I’m pretty happy with the balance in this current patch, but scpeter necro is absurd.

I am a necro player, but I really don’t wanna run the build that requires me to run around flinging a magic wand. Every single meta necro build is condi scepter. This clearly needs to be toned down in a way that hopefully doesn’t hurt power necros, which I suspect everyone will agree are far from overpowered.

This is really unspecific? What exactly do you think is OP about scepter necro? This is necros only ranged weapon, and their only condition weapon. It is barely passable in PvE, and would be worthless if not for minions. Since both range and condition are strong in PvP it makes sense they would use it. I don’t see it being out of balance with other ranged and condition options.

In fact there is only 1 meta build currently for each class. This thread could equally read:

Sword/Shield Mesmer
Hammer scrapper
D/F ele
Sword Shield Rev
Dagger pistol thief
etc… etc…

All of these are used by every single one of the respective classes. You got rolled because you weren’t as good as the other team. In fact if you got rolled by a group of 5 necros you were doing something TERRIBLY wrong as that is a horrible team comp.

There is some insight into necro scepter though. It is the lowest direct damage coefficient of any ranged weapon, and is very slow to stack conditions. It is also only 900 range instead of 1200 or 1500 like other classes. This is countered by the fact that its AA is not a projectile and therefore can not be reflected. It can however still be dodged, blocked, invulned, etc.

necro scepter is fine as it is.

Jackalrat.5493:

This post refers to conquest, so it’s here on the PvP forums.

Every necromancer build uses this thing atm and it’s really brain dead. Just got rolled over by a team of 5 scepter necros.

Overall, I’m pretty happy with the balance in this current patch, but scpeter necro is absurd.

I am a necro player, but I really don’t wanna run the build that requires me to run around flinging a magic wand. Every single meta necro build is condi scepter. This clearly needs to be toned down in a way that hopefully doesn’t hurt power necros, which I suspect everyone will agree are far from overpowered.

all necro build are scepter and condi because power necro is awfull, simple buff power necro problem solved

I guess in this context “it’s fine” means “run this or you’re trash.”

But that seems to be the issue with PvP in this game. Perhaps the balance I was seeing was just a consequence of low MMR, where people are still running unique builds. As soon as I climbed a bit, just condi builds as far as the eye can see.

Haha Scepter AA can stack 15 bleed and 5 poison

As bad as power creep is, this is more of a case of power necro simply being much, much weaker than condi nec. A better solution would be to buff power nec so it can compete with condi. If condi nec is nerfed all you end up doing is putting necro at the bottom of the meta again because power nec currently adds nothing to a team in pvp that another class doesn’t already do better. The only place where I’d say you’re ok with running power nec atm is in wvw roaming because fried golden dumplings make blighters boon not completely awful.

Crowley.8761:

Haha Scepter AA can stack 15 bleed and 5 poison

If you want to talk or sarcasticly remark balance, please use realistic pvp scenarios.
If you want to show 1/100000 scenarios, please attach you screenshot with 15x bleeds.

Back to OP,

5 condi necros = 5dps = you can die, but its far from optimal
5 scraper/ele/druid = 5 bunkers = you can get outsustained on nodes without ever killing a thing. Its still not best comp
So every extreme comp can beat groups who dont know how to counter it. It can however be extremely countered aswell. L2p thing

The scepter auto.
Necro has only 4 mainhands to choose, 2condi 2power – idk whats to expect or talk about.
Its stupid yet not exactly standing out to all other stupidly strong stuff. 2-3 boons every 10-15s on normal flow of combat.
Yes everyone wants further nerfs for current single metabuilds to be brought down to rest of variety and to not pray to RNGeezus.

Did i miss anything?

Wtf is wrong with scepter??? I run it in my reaper and it’s no way overpowered, for me to get good damage I have to run viper…

You’d have to buff power necro to one shot people for anyone to play it over condi. Conditions are far too strong right now.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

This is really unspecific? What exactly do you think is OP about scepter necro? This is necros only ranged weapon, and their only condition weapon. It is barely passable in PvE, and would be worthless if not for minions. Since both range and condition are strong in PvP it makes sense they would use it. I don’t see it being out of balance with other ranged and condition options.

In fact there is only 1 meta build currently for each class. This thread could equally read:

Sword/Shield Mesmer
Hammer scrapper
D/F ele
Sword Shield Rev
Dagger pistol thief
etc… etc…

All of these are used by every single one of the respective classes. You got rolled because you weren’t as good as the other team. In fact if you got rolled by a group of 5 necros you were doing something TERRIBLY wrong as that is a horrible team comp.

There is some insight into necro scepter though. It is the lowest direct damage coefficient of any ranged weapon, and is very slow to stack conditions. It is also only 900 range instead of 1200 or 1500 like other classes. This is countered by the fact that its AA is not a projectile and therefore can not be reflected. It can however still be dodged, blocked, invulned, etc.

About that boulded part… Umm… Axe and Staff are ranged weapon as Necromancer and staff should be a condition weapon, it was last time I checked.

OMG. Do you realize u r complaining about a class that from day 1 of beta until seas 2 of spvp was useless, underpowered, and unwanted in pve, wvw and pvp. We finally get to play and r a viable class and all ppl want to do is nerf us back into our unplayable oblivion.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

OMG. Do you realize u r complaining about a class that from day 1 of beta until seas 2 of spvp was useless, underpowered, and unwanted in pve, wvw and pvp. We finally get to play and r a viable class and all ppl want to do is nerf us back into our unplayable oblivion.

Not complaining about necros.

Just…condi necros. But tbh it’s actually about half the condi builds out there. They need to be toned down. Power is far too weak atm.

Power Necros are not underpowered.
Conditions are more powerful than they need to be right now, game wide.

It isn’t the scepter, it’s conditions in general.
Condition builds only need 1 attribute allocated for DPS, rest can be defensive.
Power builds need 3 attributes allocated for equal DPS, none can be defensive.

The answer lies in reducing the amount of condition spam. In other words, skills should not spam so many condis so quickly.

Jackalrat.5493:

I am a necro player, but I really don’t wanna run the build that requires me to run around flinging a magic wand. Every single meta necro build is condi scepter. This clearly needs to be toned down in a way that hopefully doesn’t hurt power necros, which I suspect everyone will agree are far from overpowered.

An unviable necro build does not become any better only because you nerf the viable build. If you do this, you simply have two unviable builds.

Necro scepter is the only condition weapon necro has. Lol like what are you even asking? What about it is too much? That it stacks a bleed on auto attack? Yeah that happens with all condition weapons in this game. Just because you have no idea how to theory craft a necro build doesnt mean there are builds out there that arent decent. Nobody is forcing you to run condition necro. Power reaper is definitely viable. I’ve made it to legendary both seasons and diamond this season using power. You just have to not be bad at this game.

/closethread

Possibly the most confusing thread ill read all day.

I play mostly condi reaper in spvp and use scepter out of necessity, but I hate the thing. It’s clunky and doesn’t do anything useful other than inflict bleed.

Last season I was able to use an axe in a condi build before they changed Deathly Chill, but that was mostly because chill ticked 600+.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Power Necros are not underpowered.
Conditions are more powerful than they need to be right now, game wide.

It isn’t the scepter, it’s conditions in general.
Condition builds only need 1 attribute allocated for DPS, rest can be defensive.
Power builds need 3 attributes allocated for equal DPS, none can be defensive.

The answer lies in reducing the amount of condition spam. In other words, skills should not spam so many condis so quickly.

That’s actually incorrect. Power Necro is UP. Both Base and Reaper, though I miss base more than anything. Their damage isn’t so much the problem, but that they are slow, predictable and have very poor sustain compared to just about any other primary build these days. They’re certainly below DH which says something in terms of overall meta placement.

If Power (especially base) necro gained some baseline sustain options and avoidance to actually compete with other specs running sound, many people would flock to it over conditions.

Beyond that, Conditions aren’t necessarily “OP”, the condition cleanse system is flawed. I had a post recently on how to fix that, but the likelihood of a change of the magnitude needed just isn’t good since they are focused on Exp 2.

ronpierce.2760:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Power Necros are not underpowered.
Conditions are more powerful than they need to be right now, game wide.

It isn’t the scepter, it’s conditions in general.
Condition builds only need 1 attribute allocated for DPS, rest can be defensive.
Power builds need 3 attributes allocated for equal DPS, none can be defensive.

The answer lies in reducing the amount of condition spam. In other words, skills should not spam so many condis so quickly.

That’s actually incorrect. Power Necro is UP. Both Base and Reaper, though I miss base more than anything. Their damage isn’t so much the problem, but that they are slow, predictable and have very poor sustain compared to just about any other primary build these days. They’re certainly below DH which says something in terms of overall meta placement.

If Power (especially base) necro gained some baseline sustain options and avoidance to actually compete with other specs running sound, many people would flock to it over conditions.

Beyond that, Conditions aren’t necessarily “OP”, the condition cleanse system is flawed. I had a post recently on how to fix that, but the likelihood of a change of the magnitude needed just isn’t good since they are focused on Exp 2.

Then you’re not using the right power reaper build. I play in the higher mmr bracket and my build serves just fine. So far into this season playing mostly only power I am 40 wins and 10 losses. Diamond tier 2.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

This is really unspecific? What exactly do you think is OP about scepter necro? This is necros only ranged weapon, and their only condition weapon. It is barely passable in PvE, and would be worthless if not for minions. Since both range and condition are strong in PvP it makes sense they would use it. I don’t see it being out of balance with other ranged and condition options.

I disagree. Scepter is the meta for raiding, usually both weapon sets with warhorn on one and dagger the other. For condi, scepter is excellent in PvE and PvP.

Also, “only ranged weapon”? Necro has staff which is its furthest range, axe is kinda mid-range I guess and dagger is melee. I suppose scepter would be in between axe and staff but feel free to correct me on that.

But as for the op, sadly you can’t stop people playing what they want and usually its going to be the meta because the majority of players seem to be lacking in their own ability to create different builds.

Celine.6857:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

This is really unspecific? What exactly do you think is OP about scepter necro? This is necros only ranged weapon, and their only condition weapon. It is barely passable in PvE, and would be worthless if not for minions. Since both range and condition are strong in PvP it makes sense they would use it. I don’t see it being out of balance with other ranged and condition options.

I disagree. Scepter is the meta for raiding, usually both weapon sets with warhorn on one and dagger the other. For condi, scepter is excellent in PvE and PvP.

Also, “only ranged weapon”? Necro has staff which is its furthest range, axe is kinda mid-range I guess and dagger is melee. I suppose scepter would be in between axe and staff but feel free to correct me on that.

But as for the op, sadly you can’t stop people playing what they want and usually its going to be the meta because the majority of players seem to be lacking in their own ability to create different builds.

Staff isn’t really a weapon… No one in their right mind would use staff on necro as an actual weapon. It makes an OK opener, spam 4 skills then swap out, or for some utility in PvP, but it does almost no damage, slow, reflectable power based AA, long CD’s, and no damaging conditions. I use it in PvP just for a quick cleanse, chill and fear, then back to scepter. If you get caught in staff with weapon swap CD then you are pretty much done for.

I will say I completely forgot about axe. It is such a horrible weapon for the past 3 years that has been less than useless, so I just sorta forgot it existed. But yes I suppose we do have access to axe as a ranged option.

Scepter is meta for raiding because of minions, which makes the condition build viable. If bleed minions were removed, or nerfed, then condition necros would be instantly kicked out of the raid meta. Without minions necro dps is around 10k, as opposed to 30k with them.

Scepter in PvP is good because of the synergy it gets with the rest of the build. multiple condition corrupts, as well as RS conditions make a condition spec the obvious choice. Once you choose conditions then scepter is your only option. I was hoping reaper would give us another condition weapon since dagger, warhorn, and axe were already power, but instead they gave us GS which is another power weapon. Hopefully the next expansion gives a new condition weapon which opens up some more options.

In the end the problem is build diversity across the entire game, this is not a problem that is limited to necro. Every class currently has 1 meta build and 1 meta weapon set.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Celine.6857:

I disagree. Scepter is the meta for raiding, usually both weapon sets with warhorn on one and dagger the other. For condi, scepter is excellent in PvE and PvP.

Also, “only ranged weapon”? Necro has staff which is its furthest range, axe is kinda mid-range I guess and dagger is melee. I suppose scepter would be in between axe and staff but feel free to correct me on that.

Staff isn’t really a weapon… No one in their right mind would use staff on necro as an actual weapon. It makes an OK opener, spam 4 skills then swap out, or for some utility in PvP, but it does almost no damage, slow, reflectable power based AA, long CD’s, and no damaging conditions. I use it in PvP just for a quick cleanse, chill and fear, then back to scepter. If you get caught in staff with weapon swap CD then you are pretty much done for.

This isn’t true either IMO, staff has some really nice area weakness, you have regen with number 2 helping you and allies with a decent bleed and an okay cd I think. It’s always worked for me. Anyway no weapon on its own is ideal without a build around it, so its kind of a moot point.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Scepter is meta for raiding because of minions, which makes the condition build viable. If bleed minions were removed, or nerfed, then condition necros would be instantly kicked out of the raid meta. Without minions necro dps is around 10k, as opposed to 30k with them.

Also not true: it can be used with minions, but another very viable and meta option is corruptions. I use this in PvE and it is extraordinarily potent. Number 3 scepter and auto attack make for a nice viable option in raids and general PvE. See:

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Viper_Horror.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

In the end the problem is build diversity across the entire game, this is not a problem that is limited to necro. Every class currently has 1 meta build and 1 meta weapon set.

If you are thinking only meta, then you’re probably right, though there are plenty different builds out there and being played in ESL. People don’t have to go with one thing. Its a misconception that this is the case because everyone goes on about “the meta” when really, if you play about with your character, you can find some very nice, viable builds that synergize well with many team compositions. It’s really down to player preference and understanding of a profession and mechanics.

One boon currupt every few seconds if it lands is what beat you. Ok dude.