Guild Wars 2

That is my view. The epidemic nerf was ill advised and ill thought out. Why do you persist in nerfing the best builds in classes which people never ever considered OP? (warrior/necro).

Epidemic was the heart of the necro build. It was the only reason to really bring a necro over an engi was epidemic. Our downedstate aoe damage is horrendously bad in comparison. Our marks dont even trigger on downed players (wtf). The cooldowns on the marks are so huge. The cast times on most the weapon sets are very long. And we are very very very slow. The only reason to bring a necro was:
1, Corrupt boon/epidemic – so we could at least make up for our worse conditions by moving them (sometimes) onto other players.
2, Res sig

Once res sig gets nerfed (I know they will do it – they have shown they like nerfing the few good things in crappy classes) then why ever bring a necro?

They have said they want to make corrupt boon unblockable (a good change) and epidemic unblockable (irrelevent imo). The problem with epidemic is the cast time. If you are going to make it dodgeable and have a 1 second cast time then it isnt viable. Even pre nerf it was hard to get a good epidemic off. Now it is impossible. And making it unblockable wont change anything. I wish the balance people in this game actually knew as much about the classes as the players.

Please make epidemic have a 1/2 second cast time and make it unblockable Also please make skills like corrosive poison cloud better by reducing the cast time and making it tick more often.

Stop targetting the good things in crap classes and maybe target the good things in op classes. We need buffs not nerfs. Thanks to making our best skill UTTERLY USELESS, necros are now seriously underpowered imo. Making epidemic unblockable will change almost nothing.

P.s. Minion necros suck just so you know. The trigger time between pressing their active abilities and when they activate is way too long. And the pathing is horrendus. And they dont regenarate health outside battle. Please dont buff things which are, because of design flaws, USELESS. There is no number tweaking which can make minions useful. So please dont try. Just buff the skills which work but suck (epidemic, corrosive poison cloud, well of power)

I believe the devs already stated over in the Necro forums that they’re going to be changing Epidemic back to being unblockable. No word about the cast time, and you’ll still be able to LoS/dodge it, but it’s better than nothing.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/The-Epidemic-Nerf/first

Bottom of the first page.

Oh, and Corrupt Boon is apparently also being made unblockable, so there’s maybe some compensation for Epidemic’s cast time staying the same.

I stronlgy agree with reducing epidemic casting time, i was used to play condition necro on tournaments, but i had to drop it cause many other classes are really better (faster) at applying conditions, and they can stack up lots of conditions dealing really high damage (cough hgh engi cough). Our good point was the combo corrupt boon + epidemic to spread some panic in a teamfight, but most of the time all those conditions get removed while casting epidemic….. or the target just get downed while epidemic land on him spreading …nothing.

But i think this isnt the biggest problem about Necros… i said it already in some other topics but i can write it down again…. there is an interesting question we should ask thinking about each class, what makes someone able to stand in a teamfight ?

a mix of these abilities:

1) mobility
2) high defence
3) high HP
4) healing
5) cleansing
6) Invulnerability
7) access to defensive boons (aegis, protection, regen)

Just one or two of these arent enough usually, but we can make a analysis class by class to see how is lacking what..

Necro
1) really low
2) well its a cloth class so the base def is low, can be decent with shaman or rabid amulets
3) quite good
4) would be good to have a viable lifesteal, atm nothing special
5) good considering condition also transfers
6) nope
7) some protection with really long casting times, very little to no regen, no aegis

Warr
1) not so good
2) heavy class, high with some amulets
3) same as above
4) nothing special
5) definitely not enough to survive against heavy conditions builds
6) shield block
7) almost nothing

Eles
1) …. we all know, they blink and flash everywhere, best mobility in game
2) cloth class, same as necro
3) low
4) the best cause of easy access to it
5) really good
6) mist form
7) many and often

Mesmers
1) good, blink and teleports + might have stealths
2) usually low
3) usually mid-low
4) average
5) nothing on popular shatter build
6) has it
7) really good (with staff)

Dont really need to go on, we have here two examples of complete and good classes and 2 examples of classes that are still lacking about something.

If i can give some suggestions…. maybe i should write it in suggestion section but i can give some inputs here too….. from the analysis above looks like Necros need some more displacement skills and an invulnerability. I would deal with it through Death shroud, changing 2 skills into these:

Dark Path → ground target blink 900 range that chill and bleed on 120 radius

This way the skill would be way more versatile than just being a gap closer, it can also be used as an escape mechanic, something that necros badly need.

Life transfer → remove the damage but makes the necro invulnerable for the duration of the skill.

That dark path would make me kitten

cuge.5398:

If i can give some suggestions…. maybe i should write it in suggestion section but i can give some inputs here too….. from the analysis above looks like Necros need some more displacement skills and an invulnerability. I would deal with it through Death shroud, changing 2 skills into these:

I think anyone making an honest assessment can see that necro needs very little tweaking by comparison to other classes, but some tweaks are in order. Due to the way that necro is currently devoid of the meaningful passive defense (vigor, aegis, blocks, invulnerables, etc) and passive offense (mesmer, ranger and even engineer have better passive damage sources) it is my opinion that Necro should be morphed into a profession with high skill-shot content. It would add to the variety of professions in this game (which currently lacks any serious skill shot oriented builds) and give necro interesting ways to play instead of just making it able to do a bunch of things ok, and nothing particularly well.

cuge.5398:

Dark Path -> ground target blink 900 range that chill and bleed on 120 radius

This way the skill would be way more versatile than just being a gap closer, it can also be used as an escape mechanic, something that necros badly need.

Love this. I don’t think a 180 radius is too much to ask, but I a decent player would certainly hit a 120 radius Dark Path more often than its current functionality connects (it really is pathetic).

cuge.5398:

Life transfer -> remove the damage but makes the necro invulnerable for the duration of the skill.

Nonsense. Invulnerable would be useless in shroud since 1) you would still be ticking down LF and 2) the class already has very limited ways of inflicting direct damage. Shroud needs a #5 that is a condtion focused skill, but shroud #4 is ok as is.

Also, some other suggestions -

Doom and Reaper’s Mark… Fear = 2s base. Drop Master of Terror and insert a different trait there. I think this would make Terror a good enough reason to take necros into a tourney match. The reason why condition necros are less viable currently is that their condition variety sucks, and the only conditions they can apply aren’t damaging enough to make them worthwhile. Letting terror tick a maximum of 3 times (with a whole bunch of investment to get it there) wouldn’t be a bad thing when there are multiple builds for other professions that can perma-burn for WAY MORE condition damage that can simultaneously have way more hard CC as well.

Axe – For God’s sake fix this deplorable, useless piece of kitten. The auto-attack is absolute garbage. Give it either 900 range, more damage or a faster attack rate and it could potentially be remotely useful. I’d like to see #3 be a ground target (specifically a mark) with small radius and more damage too.

Focus – casting time on #5 is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY to long for its situational utility. How can you seriously think that 1.25s is remotely warranted? Perhaps you should also flash a message across the targeted players screen telling them DODGE NOW!. The skill is really nice when it lands, but it never lands on a player who isn’t drunk, asleep or brain dead.

War Horn – #5 just isn’t good enough. Shorten the CD to give people the choice to make a mobility necro, or increase the damage to make it dangerous, or increase the cripple duration, or increase the radius, or give it another condition (vulnerability perhaps?). The #4 is fantastic, but with the #5 being so meh it is one of the least used offhands regarless of build.

Staff- I know people like staff how it is, but that is because it is the best of a bad bunch. REDUCE the area of Greater Marks, and INCREASE the damage of marks accross the board to compensate. In addition #1 should be either 1/2s, or much faster projectile speed. You already started to make marks skill shots (until you gave them a ridiculous radius that Stevie Wonder would land), so go all in and make the auto-attack a skill shot too. Right now it just sucks.

Dagger – MH is perfect, but getting splash like a GS warrior (who does way more damage) would be nice. OH very good as is, but #5 could use a shorter delay. You can’t hit it on good players with any degree of consistency, and #4 should have faster flight time.

Scepter – 2 skill has too long a delay, and 3 skill is not as good as it should be. Shorten that delay up and give 3 some love. Maybe apply Confusion to targets already suffering another condi? Maybe something as simple as more LF generation from it so that a condition Necro doesn’t have to be so hard up for Life Force all of the time.

Shroud #5 – Channel, single target, 3s, 6 hits, 20 dmg, Apply Bleed, Cripple, Confusion for 2s per hit 40s CD

No skill in the game should be unblockable. It was not a nerf but a fix. Deal with it.

While I would love to see key aspects of the necro class reworked we are not UP in tourney play. Epi is not build defining in any way and the changes they are purposing for it should bring it back in line for the most part. Not to mention, besides epi we still have workable builds in power/well and terror. Its not as much as we would like but we are way better off than warrior and have more viable build diversity than thief, engi, and ele.

Rerroll.9083:

No skill in the game should be unblockable. It was not a nerf but a fix. Deal with it.

JonathanSharp.7094:

So, we do read the forums.

Right now we’re thinking this ability will go back to being unblockable, as will Currupt Boons. We still want you to need LOS to your target, however. We want these skills to have fun back/forth play on them, while being fair for both sides (the attacker and defender). Keep in mind, these abilities can still be evaded.

And thanks for all the constructive debate in here, great job!

J Sharp disagrees man.

reedju.5786:

Rerroll.9083:

No skill in the game should be unblockable. It was not a nerf but a fix. Deal with it.

JonathanSharp.7094:

So, we do read the forums.

Right now we’re thinking this ability will go back to being unblockable, as will Currupt Boons. We still want you to need LOS to your target, however. We want these skills to have fun back/forth play on them, while being fair for both sides (the attacker and defender). Keep in mind, these abilities can still be evaded.

And thanks for all the constructive debate in here, great job!

J Sharp disagrees man.

Because the balance in this game works with QQs

Rerroll.9083:

No skill in the game should be unblockable. It was not a nerf but a fix. Deal with it.

Every Necro plays with staff and always takes 10 points in Death Magic for Greater Marks – increase area of marks and marks become unblockable.

“Fix” that and there won’t be any Necromancers left in the Mists.

Stof.9584:

Rerroll.9083:

No skill in the game should be unblockable. It was not a nerf but a fix. Deal with it.

Every Necro plays with staff and always takes 10 points in Death Magic for Greater Marks – increase area of marks and marks become unblockable.

“Fix” that and there won’t be any Necromancers left in the Mists.

This.

This is a joke well necros are supper high dps, minion necros are almost unkillable without 2 players one to kill necro, and one to kite pets. One of the best melee in the game the most aoe in the game and involarability doesnt stop dot dmg so it doesnt matter if your enemy has it and your heal eats conditions. Tied for highest hp class in the game and you have your class ability that give you an extra health bar and high dmg abilities.

Thesilentflute.8761:

This is a joke well necros are supper high dps, minion necros are almost unkillable without 2 players one to kill necro, and one to kite pets. One of the best melee in the game the most aoe in the game and involarability doesnt stop dot dmg so it doesnt matter if your enemy has it and your heal eats conditions. Tied for highest hp class in the game and you have your class ability that give you an extra health bar and high dmg abilities.

Not sure if trolling or…..

myrmidian I agreed wth EVERY one of your changes.

Rerroll.9083:

No skill in the game should be unblockable. It was not a nerf but a fix. Deal with it.

Oh you disappoint me friend! I truly and deeply agree with Duke on this subject.
Necromancers are just not viable in current ELE meta and are not going to be even if they make certain utilities unblockable. If you want to bring conditions in a team you dont want a necromancer but an engineer and we all know why. The current meta just has way too much cleansing (1-3 elementalists on a team + a bunker guardian etc.) for condition necromancers to be useful. I will have to play something else until something changes to not kitten my team too much.

Give necros a bit more mobility, it’s frustrating to play them atm. :p

Thesilentflute.8761:

This is a joke well necros are supper high dps, minion necros are almost unkillable without 2 players one to kill necro, and one to kite pets. One of the best melee in the game the most aoe in the game and involarability doesnt stop dot dmg so it doesnt matter if your enemy has it and your heal eats conditions. Tied for highest hp class in the game and you have your class ability that give you an extra health bar and high dmg abilities.

Tied with Warrior for highest HP in game. Almost tied with Warrior in lowest ranking class in PvP. Ele has lowest health in the game, but highest in rank. Necro and Warrior have one F1 key. Ele and Mesmer have F1, F2, F3, F4 keys. More tools > armor/health/invulen/whateverthekitten.

Copenhagen.7015:

Thesilentflute.8761:

This is a joke well necros are supper high dps, minion necros are almost unkillable without 2 players one to kill necro, and one to kite pets. One of the best melee in the game the most aoe in the game and involarability doesnt stop dot dmg so it doesnt matter if your enemy has it and your heal eats conditions. Tied for highest hp class in the game and you have your class ability that give you an extra health bar and high dmg abilities.

Tied with Warrior for highest HP in game. Almost tied with Warrior in lowest ranking class in PvP. Ele has lowest health in the game, but highest in rank. Necro and Warrior have one F1 key. Ele and Mesmer have F1, F2, F3, F4 keys. More tools > armor/health/invulen/whateverthekitten.

lolwut.

Necro is still super strong, the only issue is that an engie can do its role better.

If you run a terror build you can still be very valuable to your team, a lot more than a thief ( THAT is the prof tied with the war at low tier).

But i overall agree necro is not top tier anymore, but simply middle of the pack.

Underpowered is a very strong word.

And there’s a lot more sinergy if you run nero-engie instead of engie-engie: focus a target with conditions and then spread the kitten up with epidemic = dead corpse everywhere.

You can’t do that without a necro.

They can’t make necros stronger…they would be a problem for all those poor eles with tons of boons up all time, show some mercy to them…..they’re already so underpowered….

Time to nerf banners, they are the real problem…..

Maybe with reverse psychology we would get a decent balance patch, already lost all hopes but let’s try anyway…btw necros are not up atm, they’re probably more like a “decent” class…not a “must have” but not so bad too…they’re still really useful is some situations and still the best in mid teamfight support imo, always good to have someone with rez sig around at mid…engis are really good obviously (Maybe even too much) but when you’re down a good rez could save your team…

Is necro bottom of the barrel? No…. I think minion mancers are pretty darn powerful… not because of damage but because getting to them through their meat shields is a night mare and a half plus their minions have good cc and somewhat decent damage… Especially when traited…. One match had 2 full minion mancers bunker a side point… no group in our team could touch them… Doesn’t mean it needs nerfed… Just means they aren’t as low on the totem pole as people say.

I think many ppl posting on forums about class balancing dont know what a teamfight means in a tournament game. Necro isnt a bad class at all, it has lot of good utilities that can turn the tide of the battle, the fact is that the other team knows that, and also know that necros are an easy target without ANY escape mechanic, which means that it instantly becomes the main target, get focused by CC and damage and dies.
This is the reason i think this class need at least one displacement skill that dont eat an utility slot.

jportell.2197:

Is necro bottom of the barrel? No…. I think minion mancers are pretty darn powerful… not because of damage but because getting to them through their meat shields is a night mare and a half plus their minions have good cc and somewhat decent damage… Especially when traited…. One match had 2 full minion mancers bunker a side point… no group in our team could touch them… Doesn’t mean it needs nerfed… Just means they aren’t as low on the totem pole as people say.

The inability to beat Minionmancers generally stem from inability to strategize at beating them. If you’re going to try and go directly for the Necromancer himself, you’ll die.

Instead Flesh Golem → Blood Fiend → Shadowfiend/Fleshwurm/Bonefiend → Player

boom, easy.

We’re not as effective as you’d like to think.

I think spectral armour should have a cool down of 60 seconds not 90 too. Or it should just give invulnerability like the engi little mode or mist form.

WUT are you talking about.
corruption is old fashoned and way too much counterable by certain classes, aoe point bombing with ranged wells is the way to go.

I’m a main necro, maybe I’m against myself now but necros aren’t bad at all..

Lordrosicky.5813:

I think spectral armour should have a cool down of 60 seconds not 90 too. Or it should just give invulnerability like the engi little mode or mist form.

agree.

but still necros usually don’t bring a stun removal in order to carry rez sig.

I would never leave corrupt boon for a stun removal as long as i have 30 in soul reaping ( and who doesn’t at least have 20 points in SR ? )

Necro in general isnt UP…..but we have to have dmg skills on skill bar (wells or epidemic, corrupt boon etc) to deal some dmg that other classes have on their main and off hand weapons…..that means we have no slot for defensive skills otherwise we suck so much in dps that its like our team would be playing 4vs5.

Also we have no stability and dont tell me to trait 30 in SR just for this. So enemy can play ping pong with us…

necro is pretty much balanced right now… it isn’t too bad or too good
It certainly would be interesting though if untargeted dark path teleported… necro would actually gain decent mobility