Guild Wars 2

This is concerned with only PvP. Thought good time to post thoughts on balance for necro with necro is getting a balance preview in the upcoming ready up tomorrow.

Honestly, necro needs more sustain and more consistant life force generation. And more traits and utilities which provide sustain either via life force or via boons such as vigor or stability.

However, at the same time, I think necro needs nerfs.

I only started running the “meta spec” for condi about a week ago as I haven’t played much since the last patch till recently. And the spec is:
1, Easy mode
2, Lame and overpowered

The passive fears are just too much. I didn’t even realise till I experimented with it recently just how OP the 0 6 4 0 4 terror/carrion build is in PvP. It is filthy honestly.

Sure, you can counter it as it gets one-shot sometimes and mesmer/thief combo just owns it quite often. But with all these passive fears and ports it can be pretty hard to deal with. I suck at this game so I die quite often when I shouldn,t but except for eles I am not sure you should EVER lose a 1v1 on this spec if played right. In additions the team fight pressure is huge and the ability to control/fear people obviously helps peel for other squishy targets.

The redeeming feature of this spec over, say, warrior is that this cannot tank a point at all. And in addition, when you play bad on this spec you just get one-shot and fail at life. This happens often to me because I am bad/casual with this game. But if I can feel semi powerful with this spec then it must be pretty op. I mean you can even fail at life and still win with this spec sometimes purely due to some lucky passives.

tl;dr: Increase necro sustain but nerf the passive procs by making master of terror a grandmaster trait (maybe?). The passives are also bad design because sometimes you live or die depending on whether these lucky things proc or dont proc at the right times.

But also everything is OP not just necro. So everything should be nerfed. Even ranger is OP.

Thoughts?

Necros need more sustain?
I sure dont hope you actually mean sustain. Necromancers already have 25k HP and in a standard fight 2x Death Shroud which is additionally around 30k HP (I’m not really sure about the exact numbers).
If Condimancers got extra sustain they would be unstoppable, and we would like to avoid that.

Power Specs just need some mobility and escapability. But it’s a difficult issue to solve, because doing it wrong, condition specs will benefit from the increased escapability and become too strong. Arenanet really has to make sure the necro buffs will not affect condition specs.
Some Necromancers will probably want condition buffs, but mark my words, we are treading a very fine line here between Necromancers being OP.

30k-40k-50k- hell give me 1million HP. That DOES NOT equal sustain. Sustain is the ability to protect/regenerate my HP. Necro is actually horrible at that. Our sustain is non-existent. BUT.. we are the attrition class!? It is really cute tbh. You want sustain? Grab a D/D celestial elementalist. They have less than half the hp of a carrion necro yet they sustain.

Necromancer is straight up BROKEN. It is such a outlier of a class. Ridiculous condition pressure and passive fears. The only class that RELYS on utilities for offense not defense. The only class without blocks vigor etc etc. I am honestly done playing the class anymore it is just ridiculous how they are so different from every class and so limited at the same time.

Tell me how useful a 5k heal on a 25 sec cool down is when you need to refill 30k of hp. Sustain in this game is boons – necro has none worth talking about and healing besides your # 6 ability – necro has the worst options in-game for this

I dont know if it will enough but didnt Anet said something like buffing survviability of necromancer in https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-changes-in-the-september-2014-feature-pack/

So it may be the best and wait until tomorrow when we see the changes.

Considering fear skills on other professions have a longer standard duration then necro (traited) i say.. “nerf the passive and make DS#3 Aoe like FEAR ME!” with the same duration ofcourse and terror should never be GM.. period.

As for Ports on necro……" huh?"

by the way, have you seen the Allstars matchup last week? Zombify on condi necro running away every time, when he was forced to hold a point, and any melee came his way..?

Every time he did we sang “move kitten, get out of the way kitten, get out of the way” on TS.

Condi necro OP.. lawl.. maybe 2 years ago.

The thing with the 0/6/4/0/4 build is how you can be out of position a lot and still get away due to the passive fear procs. As necro has no sustain, really you just have to watch your positioning. Getting trained? Your team needs to peel for you better. I do agree they need more sustain and they need to tone down the RNG fears, because that build forgives bad positioning really. As for stun breaks, Flesh Worm needs it’s c/d reduced. 40 seconds is too long for a port that can be destroyed and bugs out sometimes. We’ll see tomorrow on what they do to Necro.

2 health bars with the highest base HP aren’t enough?

.

Dahkeus.8243:

2 health bars with the highest base HP aren’t enough?

.

You know nothing Jon Dahkeus!

Few words about state of necro:
- low sustain
- no mobility
- vulnerable to cc
- vulnerable to focus

Basicly necro dont bring anything to the game that other class can do but better , conqer mode where u need mobility , condi builds that atm do no dmg couse of masive condi cleanse , power build focus hard and die in few seconds. Idk what they gonna change in next patch but necro needs reworking OR other profesions need to be toned down ( witch i find better for the game).

One more thing about our “second hp bar” , that kind of sustain is just terrible , ppl need to relize finally one thing , ds is a tool that give u def by absoring dmg witch in practice is not so good , blocks , invu , spam dodge , some of utilitys completly negate and sort of dmg. Its just not working u can still be cced to death , u still take ton of dmg. If necro have such great sustain with his " second hp bar" why necro id focused always 1st???

If someone ask me if necro can be played i high tier pvp? Yes it can but it require completly diffrent play style of your team witch is way harder just becouse u have no room for mistakes witch is completly diffrent compared to all the cheese sutain builds that deal crap ton of dmg.

Oh and the fix to pasive fears is rly easy , reduce or remove fear form nightmare runes , add icon when necro is using reapers protecion and when the trait is rdy , that would add some counter play for enemy and it would help necro .

KrisHQ.4719:

Necros need more sustain?
I sure dont hope you actually mean sustain. Necromancers already have 25k HP and in a standard fight 2x Death Shroud which is additionally around 30k HP (I’m not really sure about the exact numbers).
If Condimancers got extra sustain they would be unstoppable, and we would like to avoid that.

Power Specs just need some mobility and escapability. But it’s a difficult issue to solve, because doing it wrong, condition specs will benefit from the increased escapability and become too strong. Arenanet really has to make sure the necro buffs will not affect condition specs.
Some Necromancers will probably want condition buffs, but mark my words, we are treading a very fine line here between Necromancers being OP.

You don’t know how well life force scales with HP. If I have say 20 K HP, my max LF pool with 6 in soul reaping is about 16 HP. Not a gross exaggeration like you say. And let’s not forget how horrible LF generation on the scepter and untrained staff is in the typical meta condition builds, I even find myself killing my flesh wurm and blowing my port just to get enough LF to be able to go into DS if I re spawn since we start out out with zero and burst classes can eat through it if we don’t condition bomb them first.

I predict a buff to lich form. The balance team does the opposite of what players expect.

KrisHQ.4719:

Necros need more sustain?
I sure dont hope you actually mean sustain. Necromancers already have 25k HP and in a standard fight 2x Death Shroud which is additionally around 30k HP (I’m not really sure about the exact numbers).
If Condimancers got extra sustain they would be unstoppable, and we would like to avoid that.

Power Specs just need some mobility and escapability. But it’s a difficult issue to solve, because doing it wrong, condition specs will benefit from the increased escapability and become too strong. Arenanet really has to make sure the necro buffs will not affect condition specs.
Some Necromancers will probably want condition buffs, but mark my words, we are treading a very fine line here between Necromancers being OP.

In what game do necromancers fill a life force bar twice in a single fight? Because it sure isn’t GW2. That’s a gross exaggeration of life force regen.

Sorry in games where there aren’t many Warriors or staff eleies about necro can be a nightmare.

tbh it would be poison for the game to give condition necros more sustain. i don’t mind if they do it for power necros but definitely not for rabid.

don’t get me wrong, im not against buffs for necros just against the wrong buffs. give necros more mobility or even more stability.

and if you want sustain play a lf regen build. barbarian or zerk necklace.

Jekkt.6045:

tbh it would be poison for the game to give condition necros more sustain. i don’t mind if they do it for power necros but definitely not for rabid.

don’t get me wrong, im not against buffs for necros just against the wrong buffs. give necros more mobility or even more stability.

and if you want sustain play a lf regen build. barbarian or zerk necklace.

A couple things. Condition necros run carrion, not rabid in this meta. A zerker build is not sustain. It doesn’t tank a point it just tries to kill things with high powered autos and lich form. The devs say they want necros to have more sustain through utilities, which would prevent taking as many burst condition utilities like corrupt boon or spite signet.

“Necro’s have a lot of hp, and you want sustain?”

When people say this it, it make me wander if they even play the kittening game.
Guards have the lowest hp, and their sustain sucks right? No, because hp=sustain is not true.

Necros don’t have blocks, invulnerability, vigor, aegis, good mobility, and almost no access to stability. This means when a team wants to focus a necro, that necro is dead. And being dead is not ideal for the attrition class of guild wars 2.

I made a pointed comment, but I’ll clarify:

Yes, I know Guards have low HP, but necros have 2x high HP, which makes me think that just adding more defense isn’t exactly the best way to solve issues with necro survivability.

I won’t make any claims that they do or don’t have enough ability to survive, but if that’s what they need, it seems to me like they need to solve this issue through A: more control of enemies to keep them from dealing damage or B: more mobility to avoid the damage. I just don’t see making necros giant clothy tanks as a really good idea from a design perspective…

Login.5102:

“Necro’s have a lot of hp, and you want sustain?”

When people say this it, it make me wander if they even play the kittening game.
Guards have the lowest hp, and their sustain sucks right? No, because hp=sustain is not true.

Necros don’t have blocks, invulnerability, vigor, aegis, good mobility, and almost no access to stability. This means when a team wants to focus a necro, that necro is dead. And being dead is not ideal for the attrition class of guild wars 2.

A big reason why necro get focused is not because its the easiest to kill, its because they are that much of a threat if you don’t focus them.

style.6173:

I predict a buff to lich form. The balance team does the opposite of what players expect.

New minor trait! Your projectile skills move 100% faster and are immune to blind, block, and reflect.

The necro needs adequate life force generation, no matter which spec they run. They can’t even use, or much less access their class mechanic without it. Necros shouldn’t have to take power based abilities in a condition based spec to fuel DS. Lastly, necros simply cannot stay in the fight when virtually all of their defense require the use of offensive abilities. Short of them dodging, you will rarely ever see a return of zero on your attack investment. Anything you throw at them is going to land, especially your disables which, in case you weren’t paying attention, effectively removes their defense from play. It’s like throwing your necro in at the quarterback position with only the center for your offensive line.

vincecontix.1264:

Login.5102:

“Necro’s have a lot of hp, and you want sustain?”

When people say this it, it make me wander if they even play the kittening game.
Guards have the lowest hp, and their sustain sucks right? No, because hp=sustain is not true.

Necros don’t have blocks, invulnerability, vigor, aegis, good mobility, and almost no access to stability. This means when a team wants to focus a necro, that necro is dead. And being dead is not ideal for the attrition class of guild wars 2.

A big reason why necro get focused is not because its the easiest to kill, its because they are that much of a threat if you don’t focus them.

Any necro that is built for dmg( being a threat)….

Is the easiest class to focus in the game…..its not even debatable.

Narkodx.1472:

Necromancer is straight up BROKEN. It is such a outlier of a class. Ridiculous condition pressure and passive fears. The only class that RELYS on utilities for offense not defense. The only class without blocks vigor etc etc. I am honestly done playing the class anymore it is just ridiculous how they are so different from every class and so limited at the same time.

Well, Hello there mister “My main is definitely Necromancer, and my class needs to be better”.
If necromancers could heal and regen their health? What kind of suggestion is this? You want another warrior running around with 40k HP and high regenaration? There is a reason Necromancers have a second life-bar, and a reason that IT can be gained throughout the fight. That is becasuse they rely on something different than Guardians or Eles.

Here I am writing posts that call for D/D Ele nerfs (which is my main), while necromancers are claiming they’re UP and needs more sustain?
If you feel useless as a necromancers, you are doing it wrong.

If Arenanet eventually buffs conditionmancers in terms of defense, I’ll look back at this thread and have huge grin on my face. Because I’ll know, that yet another unbalance was created by powerhungry people that have no idea what they’re doing.

Login.5102:

vincecontix.1264:

Login.5102:

“Necro’s have a lot of hp, and you want sustain?”

When people say this it, it make me wander if they even play the kittening game.
Guards have the lowest hp, and their sustain sucks right? No, because hp=sustain is not true.

Necros don’t have blocks, invulnerability, vigor, aegis, good mobility, and almost no access to stability. This means when a team wants to focus a necro, that necro is dead. And being dead is not ideal for the attrition class of guild wars 2.

A big reason why necro get focused is not because its the easiest to kill, its because they are that much of a threat if you don’t focus them.

Any necro that is built for dmg( being a threat)….

Is the easiest class to focus in the game…..its not even debatable.

Obviously. Anyone who plays the class and other classes knows this.

Does Necro have any active defense besides pressing a stun break and entering death shroud to soak damage?

Necro needs to be more like Warrior –
Remove Condition on Lifeblast
Stances/Transformations with immunity to physical/cc/conditions – not 180 sec CD
Better LF generation from Staff/Scepter
Buff to flesh wurm

Give me this and you can have dhuumfire and reapers protection and signet of spite… I do not want that cheesy crap anyway

Anet failed when they made the Necromancer. The Necromancer has become a BURST class. Stack as many condis and fear you 3 times before I get CC’ed and die.
Power is stack as much CC and gain as much LF as possible then start LBing til you die or I die. Of course the stupid Lich gimmick as well.

Any fight over one/two minutes is extremely difficult for a Necro without mobility immunity and sustain.

KrisHQ.4719:

Narkodx.1472:

Necromancer is straight up BROKEN. It is such a outlier of a class. Ridiculous condition pressure and passive fears. The only class that RELYS on utilities for offense not defense. The only class without blocks vigor etc etc. I am honestly done playing the class anymore it is just ridiculous how they are so different from every class and so limited at the same time.

Well, Hello there mister “My main is definitely Necromancer, and my class needs to be better”.
If necromancers could heal and regen their health? What kind of suggestion is this? You want another warrior running around with 40k HP and high regenaration? There is a reason Necromancers have a second life-bar, and a reason that IT can be gained throughout the fight. That is becasuse rely on something different than Guardians or Eles.

Here I am writing posts that call for D/D Ele nerfs (which is my main), while necromancers are claiming they’re UP and needs more sustain?
If you feel useless as a necromancers, you are doing it wrong.

If Arenanet eventually buffs conditionmancers in terms of defense, I’ll look back at this thread and have huge grin on my face. Because I’ll know, that yet another unbalance was created by powerhungry people that have no idea what they’re doing.

Nah man. I stopped playing Necro a while back not that it really matters anyway. Conditionmancers defense/sustain is getting buffed regardless of this thread actually and they already claimed to be doing that. Not sure where your assumptions come from though but you look interesting now.

Warrior needs nerf yeah. Celestial D/D ele needs nerf yeah. But ANET won’t be doing that so why can’t I have sustain too?!

I argue for the sake of arguing. I know the power structure in this game and so do most players. Necro is not top 5 classes out of 8. So go ahead claim whatever you want. I will keep looking at my Necro in the login screen and instead click on my warrior slap on my celestial ammy and actually play a sustain class. But I am biased -_-

@Narkodx
I’m having a hard time figuring out if you’re being sarcastic or not.
These suggestions make no sense at all. If you’re for real, have you even thought about these things or are you just typing something as you go along?
Try looking at PvP as objectively as possible, and refrain from craving buffs to your main profession if not necessary.

Narkodx.1472:

Necro needs to be more like Warrior

Narkodx.1472:

I do not want that cheesy crap anyway

I am not the only one seeing this, right?

Necromancers don’t just get tons of HP for free. We have, bar none (and by a lot), the worst active defenses in the game. Its not even a close comparison, we get HP, protection, offensive defense (the worst kind of defense as it has multiple points of counterplay), the base dodges, and then ways to get HP back. We have awful stability, no vigor, our blinks all require pre-activation setup, no blocks, no instant blinds, no invuln, no immunities, basically no true way to negate skill effects, just ways to lower the damage we take, and take a lot of damage. This is why Necromancers do so well in 1v1s, where face-tanking can actually work, and not in teamfights where we get looked at wrong and die because our defenses don’t remotely scale.

Also, if you look at the offensive side of Necromancer right now, it has nothing to do with our actual design, which is sustained offense. Power necro is only remotely viable because of Lich instaburst 17k AAs, and condi necro is only viable because of random fears and CB which allow us to condi spike a target.

So reduce the burst, increase some counterplay, and give actual sustained damage and defense, just like ANet has been saying was our design since forever.

KrisHQ.4719:

@Narkodx
I’m having a hard time figuring out if you’re being sarcastic or not.
These suggestions make no sense at all. If you’re for real, have you even thought about these things or are you just typing something as you go along?
Try looking at PvP as objectively as possible, and refrain from craving buffs to your main profession if not necessary.

You’re making the assumption that this is strictly asking for a buff. More experienced necro players are fully aware of a necro having 100% life force being an issue especially in 1v1, but a necro with no or little life force is a sitting duck. It’s unbalanced for someone at both ends. Most suggestions involve leveling that out by reducing life force hp but improving generation, as opposed to a flat buff to necromancers.

Adian.8756:

Narkodx.1472:

Necro needs to be more like Warrior

Narkodx.1472:

I do not want that cheesy crap anyway

I am not the only one seeing this, right?

Rofl, that made my day.

KrisHQ.4719:

@Narkodx
I’m having a hard time figuring out if you’re being sarcastic or not.
These suggestions make no sense at all. If you’re for real, have you even thought about these things or are you just typing something as you go along?
Try looking at PvP as objectively as possible, and refrain from craving buffs to your main profession if not necessary.

I’m having a hard time figuring out if you have played this game for more than a month. In fact, have you ever played a Necro? Life is very good in this game when you only play an Ele and Guardian. That’s all you list in your sig.

You will notice I am not the only one who believes that Necro needs extra sustain so sure I am quite serious

Roe.3679:

KrisHQ.4719:

@Narkodx
I’m having a hard time figuring out if you’re being sarcastic or not.
These suggestions make no sense at all. If you’re for real, have you even thought about these things or are you just typing something as you go along?
Try looking at PvP as objectively as possible, and refrain from craving buffs to your main profession if not necessary.

You’re making the assumption that this is strictly asking for a buff. More experienced necro players are fully aware of a necro having 100% life force being an issue especially in 1v1, but a necro with no or little life force is a sitting duck. It’s unbalanced for someone at both ends. Most suggestions involve leveling that out by reducing life force hp but improving generation, as opposed to a flat buff to necromancers.

Most of these posts suggest flat out buffs to necromancers, in a ridiculous scale.
Changing some mechanics and altering some generation/HP numbers I assume is fine and without risk. Buffing the defenses are however not.

@Narko
I’ve played since Closed Beta and been around every class by now. I have not listed all my characters, only the ones I mainly use.
And of course you’re not the only one who wants extra sustain, all necromancers do.

Dahkeus.8243:

Adian.8756:

Narkodx.1472:

Necro needs to be more like Warrior

Narkodx.1472:

I do not want that cheesy crap anyway

I am not the only one seeing this, right?

Rofl, that made my day.

Warrior = Cheese right?

Actually it is a very well made profession that actually has sustain. Sure it is stronger than a lot of classes thus called “cheese” (usually by players who constantly lose to warriors but i digress)

Point being we want Necro closer to Warr

Power necro has a TON of life force generation. In fact it bars on absurd. Necros sustain has always been the life force generation. Condition necros can get LF generation but it bars 2 issues:
1: they have to trait for it making them weaker (see point 2)
2: Condition necro doesn’t benefit from LF as much as power necro does.

It isn’t that necros don’t have a lot of LF generation abilties its just some of them stink ( mostly condition necro, lets face it what condition necro staff autos unless they are desperate for LF)

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

The thing with the 0/6/4/0/4 build is how you can be out of position a lot and still get away due to the passive fear procs. As necro has no sustain, really you just have to watch your positioning. Getting trained? Your team needs to peel for you better. I do agree they need more sustain and they need to tone down the RNG fears, because that build forgives bad positioning really. As for stun breaks, Flesh Worm needs it’s c/d reduced. 40 seconds is too long for a port that can be destroyed and bugs out sometimes. We’ll see tomorrow on what they do to Necro.

Marvin comes in with a level head. You’re right, worm probably needs a lower cooldown.

JinDaVikk.7291:

Power necro has a TON of life force generation. In fact it bars on absurd. Necros sustain has always been the life force generation. Condition necros can get LF generation but it bars 2 issues:
1: they have to trait for it making them weaker (see point 2)
2: Condition necro doesn’t benefit from LF as much as power necro does.

It isn’t that necros don’t have a lot of LF generation abilties its just some of them stink ( mostly condition necro, lets face it what condition necro staff autos unless they are desperate for LF)

Even the life force generation of a power build isn’t enough sustain to make up for the lack of defense and mobility of the class. If asked whether I would give up deathshroud/life force for the sustainability of say the guardian or ele, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Deathshroud is just a bad mechanic the way it currently is. It is the end all be all of the necro class, it holds way too much power over the class. This might be fine if all other classes were bound to similar restrictions, but they aren’t. Ultimately this takes away from the class because it forces people into DS. I’d love nothing more than to make a Power vampire necro build that doesn’t involve me popping into DS to actually do damage yet my heals don’t heal me.

i have NOT read the entire thread, only the OP, and i have to agree to one thing: nec needs the same amount of life force generation as warriors adrenaline.

and to clarify: i don’t play nec. i just regularly destroy them.

Bhawb.7408:

Necromancers don’t just get tons of HP for free. We have, bar none (and by a lot), the worst active defenses in the game. Its not even a close comparison, we get HP, protection, offensive defense (the worst kind of defense as it has multiple points of counterplay), the base dodges, and then ways to get HP back. We have awful stability, no vigor, our blinks all require pre-activation setup, no blocks, no instant blinds, no invuln, no immunities, basically no true way to negate skill effects, just ways to lower the damage we take, and take a lot of damage. This is why Necromancers do so well in 1v1s, where face-tanking can actually work, and not in teamfights where we get looked at wrong and die because our defenses don’t remotely scale.

Also, if you look at the offensive side of Necromancer right now, it has nothing to do with our *actual* design, which is sustained offense. Power necro is only remotely viable because of Lich instaburst 17k AAs, and condi necro is only viable because of random fears and CB which allow us to condi spike a target.

So reduce the burst, increase some counterplay, and give actual sustained damage and defense, just like ANet has been saying was our design since forever.

basically, this sums it up

also, i would like to see an option for necros to sacrifice their life force gained for additional damage. it would be a nice way to balance the whole second life bar kitten going on.

My basic point in this thread was that if they buff necro sustain they need to nerf the passive procs. I find it funny some people read the title of the thread and just spaz out as if I am calling for necro buffs. The passive procs are lame and totally and utterly OP. The life force generation needs to be buffed though.

I disagree with the O: I don’t think Reaper’s Protection is that powerful, due to its long recharge. In most cases, it will only proc once during a fight. I agree that completely passive trait procs which can inflict 3" (if traited with Master of Terror) of CC is bad design, because it doesn’t reward skilled play. However, there’s a reason the duration is that long: most other CC in the game is 1-2", and necro has little access to stability and very long recharges on his stunbreaks. And since Reaper’s Protection doesn’t actually break stun, it just CCs the guy who CCed you, the fear it inflicts has to be roughly equivalent in duration to the CC that got inflicted on the necro – otherwise, you will get burst down anyway as soon as the fear expires.

Therefore, what Reaper’s Protection does is prevent an enemy from opening on a necro with a stun/kb/immob and burst them down with impunity. Reaper’s Protection means that you have to either give yourself stability before opening on the necro, or be prepared to burn a stunbreak as soon as you get feared to be able to deliver your damage while the necro is still disabled. I actually think that’s a fair exchange, because, knowing that you’ll likely get feared when you initially stun a necro, you can plan counterplay to it, and it makes up for the fact that necros have very little defense against CC+burst damage, except popping into DS and eating it.

Where it might kinda break down is when Reaper’s Protection is combined with Runes of the Nightmare. The high probability and low conditionality of the proc (50% on hit) means they’ll most likely proc either simultaneously with Reaper’s Protection (which makes for a 6" fear, pretty lethal, but actually a lucky break as you can use one stunbreak to get rid of both fears), or very soon afterwards (which is worse, as you may have already burned your stunbreak on Reaper’s Protection!) Of course, the low conditionality of the proc cuts both ways: if you give yourself stability before opening on a necro, both Reaper’s Protection and Runes of the Nightmare procs will get wasted, and then you get to save your stunbreaker from when you fail to dodge one of the necro’s other fears.

But with a lot of people these days running full-on damage builds (thieves and mesmers in particular), with almost no access to stability, having 4 different sources of fear ruins them, even if 2 of them are on a massive recharge. I can see why it’s overpowered against THEM in particular. But against a warrior, or an ele with armour of earth, both those passive procs will get wasted if the enemy has half a brain and knows to EXPECT that the passive fear procs will hit them as soon as they open on the necro. Honestly, that’s fair and EXACTLY how it should be! You know how many mesmers I see running around with Lyssa/Mass Invis as their only condition cleanse? If you’re gonna run a glass cannon build don’t complain when people ruin you! Those fear procs are completely predictable and easily countered, you just need to bring the tools along to do it!

(And, having mentioned warriors, I also disagree with the OP that it’s “harder than ever” for them to hold a point against a necro: with all the passive boon procs from Runes of Strength/Pirate/etc, there are now a lot more trash boons for our corruptions to get through before it can touch the Stability: it’s now pretty typical for people to have more than 5, and stability is bottom priority for all our boon corruption/removal skills! Moving Terror to Grandmaster would thjerefore completely kill the conditionmancer build, those extra 2 removals from Dark Path are now necessary to get that stability off!)

Having said that, while I thinkt hat the effects of Reaper’s Protection and Runes of the Nightmare are not OP, I don’t think they’re implemented in a way that rewards skilled play. I reckon reaper’s prot should be changed to a trait which gives 10% life force whenever you are CC’ed (no ICD), and converts Doom (DS3) to a stunbreak. That way the fear proc is not passive, and it buffs the necro’s built-in defence mechanism (death shroud) rather than by giving an extra thing. Plus, it gives us an extra stunbreak with a fairly short recharge, and the choice on whether to use it defensively, or just eat the duration of the CC and save the fear to use offensively, introducing a tactical choice.

Nightmare runes should also be changed: I think unconditional procs are boring, hard to plan for, and hard to play against. Instead of “50% chance on hit”, it should be something like “50% chance when you suffer damage equivalent to 10% of your HP in a single hit”. Obviously with a reduced ICD to compensate. This makes it less likely to be just a random proc, and more likely to proc exactly when the necro needs it: ie. when receiving burst damage, which necros have few protections against. Frankly, I also wouldn’t midn if they were turned to a power set, as power necros have even fewer defences against burst damage (and they need them the most).

Additionally, I think Marks shoudl be changed so that their cast is more obviously telegraphed. by having the area marker appear at the start of the cast rather than at the end. To balance having made them easier to dodge, increase their base physical damage by making spiteful marks, and, ideally, also Soul Marks baseline (ideally also normalising the damage between the different marks, so that one of them doesn’t do 1,200 damage while another does 130) and reverse the mark of blood nerf.

1. Passive fear just on hitting or CCing a necro is terrible design.

2. Necros need more sustain only in fights with more than 4 total people and less than 10. They have very good sustain in 1v1 and VERY good survivability in zergs.

Agreed, necro needs sustain aka healing hp back capabilities. And the concept of stay in a fight has basicaly perma stability written over it my wish list for tomorrow:

1) removal of nigjtmare roons. No class should be balanced around a 90s one trick pony

2) optional: removal or remodel of fear on CC trait into the failed DM 15trait minor

3) more and mostly RELIABLE life force on scepter , staff

4) power necro cast times reductions , confirmed, hope its enough

5) HEALING but with TRAITS. Aka flat buff siphones by A FEW TIMES + spite XIII heals in DS + regen and outsource healing by %

6) 2x good stunbreak utilities , as CB seems to remain must ,even on non wells power necros

7) nerf to warriors, theyre designed weak to condies, were designed attrition. Currently, nothing is true. Hope the adrenaline nerfs will be enough.
Zerker stance 100% immunity and duration , healsig , earth l2p dodge bow f1

Just yesterday in eotm, 1 enemy Nec against 20.

IDK what he used but he manage to survive.
He just stand there tranform in to tornado thing
then call up his 2nd HP bar.
run away while sucking HP in to his tower.

almost 1 min 20 players cant take down 1 player…. that was sick.

Yes eotm is full of Uplvl but I’m thief 80max gear.

they should nerf lich form …. it is too op for other classes to fight against .

necromancers can’t turn into tornadeos.

1 necro running away from 20 players for a minute? the fail is all to the 20 seriously, ESPECIALLY if he used plague (ever heard of immobilize?)

adozu.6398:

necromancers can’t turn into tornadeos.

1 necro running away from 20 players for a minute? the fail is all to the 20 seriously, ESPECIALLY if he used plague (ever heard of immobilize?)

yeah I know its sound stupid.

but I really saw 1 tornado with only 1 red name plate in the middle of zerg.
may be I’m wrong idk any Nec skill.

Why are people hating on the passive (Reaper’s Protection) fear? It’s on a 60 sec cooldown…

Rune of the nightmare? Any profession can use it.

No other profession besides necromancers use it? Doesn’t mean necros need a nerf.

If the passive fear (Reaper’s Protection) gets a nerf in its fear duration. Then the cooldown should be reduced respectively.

Anything else should wait after the Ready up concludes.

Mia Crazymike.1780:

Why are people hating on the passive (Reaper’s Protection) fear? It’s on a 60 sec cooldown…

Rune of the nightmare? Any profession can use it.

No other profession besides necromancers use it? Doesn’t mean necros need a nerf.

If the passive fear (Reaper’s Protection) gets a nerf in its fear duration. Then the cooldown should be reduced respectively.

Anything else should wait after the Ready up concludes.

I guess because only necros have terror. But i agree with lets wait untile the Ready up.

I used to main necro back in the days and I hate the low amount of healing. 5k heal every 25 seconds won´t let you stay in any attrition fight for long. They should reduce life force tanking and give them some life steal options.

But that´s just my personal reason for dropping necro.

PierPiero.9142:

they should nerf lich form …. it is too op for other classes to fight against .

Yeh they should. Power necro is total 1 spam, it is really a brainless spec which anybody can run with some success to be honest. 1 spam in lich and 1 spam in deathshroud whilst killing on the basis of AoE well spam and passive procs such as chill of death and the sigils.

I think they will nerf lich in the same way they nerfed tornado bombing.

In the case of lich this nerf will be sufficient because the lower procs on chill of death (and other stuff like wells etc etc) will reduce the effectiveness of lich considerably

Well because now people can pack air+fire sigil to 2-shot enemies, and people who still haven’t learned to dodge and use LOS are shaking their little fists in the air furiously.