Guild Wars 2

Anyone want to tell me why classes who also do ambient damage / support are able to get away with having great 1v1 potential as well?

Guards and Elementalists especially. Cuz all im seeing is class favoritism lol.

But no seriously. Explain to meh reasons.

most support builds can’t 1v1, however with all the nerfs supports have been given, few people ever play support anymore.

Ele can’t 1v1 anyone lol. They can maybe stalemate for a while but support ele sure as hell won’t kill a fly…

Yes, actually the necromancer is the only class totally unable to do 1v1 (against good players). Maybe against an engi, but if the enemi is good enough to stunlock and time the moa there’s few things you can do to win.

A good Ele can still 1v1 few classes surviving longer than them, but need to be good and have a good might build and rotation. they are bunker but they still play Mender that grant a good Power damage and critical rate.
At last, a elementalist can’t win but also can’t die. With Obsidian Flesh, Mist Form and tons of condi clean with also swiftness and heals, kill an ele is really hard and take you time to do so. A good ele is able to CC and Flee while untouched. Eventually can use the teleport, but I don’t know what skills are needed and how much space there’s for use defensive skills instead of support skills.

The necromancer is classified as a Support (an Offensive Support) then it’s not supposed to kill anoyone. The problem is that also can’t survive to anyone. Don’t have any good defensive skill that grant him to survive. If an enemy chose to kill you, if there’s not an ally to help you and heal/ress you or CC the enemy and kill him before he kill you there’s more or less nothing you can do to survive. No good movement skills, no Immunity skills, no Teleport skills, no Block skills. And also an Average damage that don’t grant us to be really useful as dps. Every other class unless ele have much more dps than us in both direct or condition damage (but only because the ele is used as a Defensive Support, a Fresh Air ele have a higher dps than ours). The problem is that the necro actually is using offensive amulets and frequently offensive setups, while still unable to inflict enough damage to kill someone in 1v1. The only thing a necro is supposed to do is corrupt boons and spam poison and vulnerability (expecially with the RS combo) to make the enemy team weaker and your teama ble to kill them faster. That isn’t really bad because a necro can really make the enemy weaker, but also you lose dps and defence having a necro in team, that need a babysitter fulltime to keep him alive. And have more than one necro in team is more an handycap than a resource.

Making it simple: if you want to win any kind of real 1v1 don’t play necro.

At equal skill, Necro beats Rev in 1 vs 1 in most of cases. With ease.

Silv.9207:

Yes, actually the necromancer is the only class totally unable to do 1v1 (against good players).

Condi necro can easily 1v1 support ele. Like it’s not even close.

SR power necro can’t 1v1 support ele due to not having enough corrupts to handle the protection spam.

However it’s a moot point because support eles don’t make a habit of putting themselves in 1v1 situations.

Buran.3796:

At equal skill, Necro beats Rev in 1 vs 1 in most of cases. With ease.

Condi rev yes, power rev no.

Power necro perform better in 1v1 but not many Necro’s run power efficiently in soloq. Unless if they’re a premade.

Crinn.7864:

Buran.3796:

At equal skill, Necro beats Rev in 1 vs 1 in most of cases. With ease.

Condi rev yes, power rev no.

Condi Rev isn’t even a thing. At high skill level Necro has clearly an edge over the Rev; the only reson due Necro wasn’t as popular as Revs in the pro tournaments is the lack of mobility which prevented Necros from being good at +1/decapping. But at the current state, after all the nerfs to power Revs, and the sigil and runes eliminated in PvP, Necro has the upper hand in a 1 vs 1.

Saiyan.1704:

Power necro perform better in 1v1 but not many Necro’s run power efficiently in soloq. Unless if they’re a premade.

Running power in a premade is silly though. power necro is objectively worse than condi necro when it comes to killing supports and bunkers, and killing supports and bunkers is the only reason you’d ever bring a necro into a 5s comp to being with.

Power necro only became a thing because solo/duo meant that necros rarely had support and as such had max out their personal survivability at the cost of potency.

Buran.3796:

Crinn.7864:

Buran.3796:

At equal skill, Necro beats Rev in 1 vs 1 in most of cases. With ease.

Condi rev yes, power rev no.

Condi Rev isn’t even a thing. At high skill level Necro has clearly an edge over the Rev; the only reson due Necro wasn’t as popular as Revs in the pro tournaments is the lack of mobility which prevented Necros from being good at +1/decapping. But at the current state, after all the nerfs to power Revs, and the sigil and runes eliminated in PvP, Necro has the upper hand in a 1 vs 1.

Do not forget the Nec is the biggest victim of removing sigil and runes. Although they can now be a longer punching bags. But they also lost three sigil – Air, Fire, Hydromancy. All about the last stuff they have – damage ouput. lol, This is why they have been shouting can’t kill people. Do you think a punching bags will be useful for survive more than 10 seconds before it?

xeonage.1253:

Do not forget the Nec is the biggest victim of removing sigil and runes. Although they can now be a longer punching bags. But they also lost three sigil – Air, Fire, Hydromancy. All about the last stuff they have – damage ouput. lol, This is why they have been shouting can’t kill people. Do you think a punching bags will be useful for survive more than 10 seconds before it?

I jumped ship to Mender Druid and everything’s so ez.

Who needs Necro when you have Annulment sigil on Longbow?

(Don’t take me srs)

Annulment, Revocation, Escape and Agility are really nice. Power Necro took a huge dive with the absence of Fire & Air, it carries most of your burst. It’s time to go Condi.

Necro can hold points and kill quite a few classes 1v1. Mesmer, warrior, guard are all ones you should be able to kill.

Faux Play.6104:

Necro can hold points and kill quite a few classes 1v1. Mesmer, warrior, guard are all ones you should be able to kill.

I don’t think necro can kill mes given same skill level. Mes has plenty of ways to lock down necro and deny them shroud as well .
Guards and war maybe, depending on their builds. Necro does counter engi, ele and revs to extend. Once again depending on build they play.

Cynz.9437:

Faux Play.6104:

Necro can hold points and kill quite a few classes 1v1. Mesmer, warrior, guard are all ones you should be able to kill.

I don’t think necro can kill mes given same skill level. Mes has plenty of ways to lock down necro and deny them shroud as well .
Guards and war maybe, depending on their builds. Necro does counter engi, ele and revs to extend. Once again depending on build they play.

Mesmer is a good matchup for necros. Their clones help necro get shroud up faster, and necro AOE is strong enough to take out the clones. A decent engineer with the elixir elite has a lot more control options that are harder to deal with than a mesmer. Engineer moa is way harder to see coming, and their knockback cloud can be gg if necro has the wrong skills on cool down.

I play necro but when I want to play a dps i switch on my guardian and I can tell you that there’s not any necromancer able to kill me. A sincle gold-but-gold trap combo and maybe the F3 at the right moment to ignore the poison+bleed spam or the Reaper Shroud AA damage and the necro is dead. Not a single chance.
Revenants with Power still kill necros with high burst and CC, i don’t think that a necro can really kill a skilled revenant.
Warriors? A necromancer able to kill a warrior? When? How? Where? Seriously? The warrior have mobility, huge burst damage and damage immunity (both direct and condi), a fast warrior can’t lose against a necromancer in a 1v1.
A mesmer need only to kite and the necro is dead. nothing to tell more.

a decent necro has no chance to lose against a rev in 1v1, no matter if the rev is condi or power. Then you would think that the worst class in 1v1 is revenant… but as someone already said, worst class in 1v1 is ele. There are still surprisly good ele with staff cele, and still the old D/D builds but…. naaaah ele is just the WORST class for duel.

Faux Play.6104:

Mesmer is a good matchup for necros. Their clones help necro get shroud up faster, and necro AOE is strong enough to take out the clones.

That’s not how it works.

1) Clones don’t give life force when they die
2) Life Force generating skills do not scale with the number of a targets struck. It doesn’t matter if you hit 1 or 5 targets with a staff mark, that mark still only gives 3% Life Force.

Also necros only have a lot of AoE while in shroud, outside of shroud necros have little cleave capabilities.

Crinn.7864:

Faux Play.6104:

Mesmer is a good matchup for necros. Their clones help necro get shroud up faster, and necro AOE is strong enough to take out the clones.

That’s not how it works.

1) Clones don’t give life force when they die
2) Life Force generating skills do not scale with the number of a targets struck. It doesn’t matter if you hit 1 or 5 targets with a staff mark, that mark still only gives 3% Life Force.

Also necros only have a lot of AoE while in shroud, outside of shroud necros have little cleave capabilities.

Marks aren’t the only skill that generates life force. When I’m necro I’ll take a 1v1 on a point and be successful vs a mesmer.

Faux Play.6104:

Necro can hold points and kill quite a few classes 1v1. Mesmer, warrior, guard are all ones you should be able to kill.

No chance you kill a mesmer on a necro if the mesmer isn’t stupid enough to play power and bad.

Shala.8352:

a decent necro has no chance to lose against a rev in 1v1, no matter if the rev is condi or power.

To me at the same skill level a power reve have the upper hand against power necro.

WIth the recent patch, everyone’s sustain was nerfed indeed. This helped classes like ele, necro perform better in 1v1s. I have seen some amazing necros which are either a loss to in a 1v1 or a stalemate, then there’s others that die to my support ele. It depends how you play as necro honestly, if you’re willing to give up the point for more kiting and sustain then your chances of winning are better, since necro is slow, clunky, and has little evades. That all being said, unranked is pretty scattered at the moment, we will see how it does on the next season, but necro is pretty strong now.

Nerco can’t 1v1? What. Matches I’ve played they can handle themselves very well. Just go into I win reaper form, if you are lucky there are more than 1 opponent and you can down them all in one go.

Vague Memory.2817:

Just go into I win reaper form, if you are lucky there are more than 1 opponent and you can down them all in one go.

*triggered

Vague Memory.2817:

Nerco can’t 1v1? What. Matches I’ve played they can handle themselves very well. Just go into I win reaper form, if you are lucky there are more than 1 opponent and you can down them all in one go.

You have to ask them to stand nicely while you do the spins.

(I clearly have the best rig)

TheDevice.2751:

all im seeing is class favoritism

I’d love to see Karl McLain’s explanation of why [some class(es)] are stronger than others.

Necro the only class that can’t 1v1?

Laughs in Revenant

Ralkuth.1456:

Vague Memory.2817:

Nerco can’t 1v1? What. Matches I’ve played they can handle themselves very well. Just go into I win reaper form, if you are lucky there are more than 1 opponent and you can down them all in one go.

You have to ask them to stand nicely while you do the spins.

(I clearly have the best rig)

I’ve seen that picture so many times in different matches it isn’t funny. Btw chill usually stops people moving away too quickly. Playing as a mes against necro 1v1 is difficult, always waiting for the reaper switch which can pretty much end the fight without blink up.

Svarty.8019:

TheDevice.2751:

all im seeing is class favoritism

I’d love to see Karl McLain’s explanation of why [some class(es)] are stronger than others.

I honestly think the last time Karl played necro was in 2013 lol. He’s been having too much fun on his guard/war/thief

Necro is one of the strongest 1v1 classes atm……. what u on about??

Vague Memory.2817:

Just go into I win reaper form,

Oh the problems of bronze division.

bluri.2653:

Necro is one of the strongest 1v1 classes atm……. what u on about??

Ah cool. Can you show some footage of how well necros are doing 1v1? Maybe go and 1v1 as a necro. I’d love to see some necro 1v1 winning action.

TheDevice.2751:

bluri.2653:

Necro is one of the strongest 1v1 classes atm……. what u on about??

Ah cool. Can you show some footage of how well necros are doing 1v1? Maybe go and 1v1 as a necro. I’d love to see some necro 1v1 winning action.

I’m 99% sure sind is trolling.

I’ll just leave this here anyways

Crinn.7864:

TheDevice.2751:

bluri.2653:

Necro is one of the strongest 1v1 classes atm……. what u on about??

Ah cool. Can you show some footage of how well necros are doing 1v1? Maybe go and 1v1 as a necro. I’d love to see some necro 1v1 winning action.

I’m 99% sure sind is trolling.

oh thank god.

Necro is absolutely fine 1v1.

However, the thing is that it’s a class that requires a lot of active management from the player’s side to survive. This is especially visible in one on one encounters (due to the lack of support and the dependence on the player’s skill alone – although match-ups may sometimes override the potential a good player has)

Necro doesn’t carry itself. Therefore, to a bad player who decides to play it, it – quite obviously – will give the impression that it’s bad. This is emphasized as well by the fact that they may do perfectly fine on other classes in the same encounters, which is due to the fact that most other classes have a much less punishing nature.

[and oftentimes is also due to the fact that the player may be worse at playing necro, less experienced on it, or both]

The reality of Necro is that the class is perfectly viable on its own. What isn’t always viable, however, is a player with low mechanical skill playing it – especially versus those better than them.

tl;dr You just need more practice.

I agree OP. Necro is in dire need of some buffing. It’s a free kill without ANY type of support. Just about any class can best you in a 1v1 and you have the worst mobility out of any class in the game. Not to mention you start the game with a low amount of shroud. Meanwhile every other class can bully you and take advantage of the flaws the class has : /

Beast.6745:

I agree OP. Necro is in dire need of some buffing. It’s a free kill without ANY type of support. Just about any class can best you in a 1v1 and you have the worst mobility out of any class in the game. Not to mention you start the game with a low amount of shroud. Meanwhile every other class can bully you and take advantage of the flaws the class has : /

I believe my colleague is making a few very important points that we cannot emphasize enough to the development staff in charge of in game balance. Henceforth, i would thereby seek a remedy in the form of granting the necromancer class:

• At least 50% shroud at start of games
• Passive 25% movement speed (like chronomancers)
• Reduced amount of flaws necro has such as
  • No access to blocks
  • No access to invulnerabilities
  • Smarter minion AI

Best,
Concerned and Fellow Necro Enthusiast

Already posted this “are you actually good” kind of thing in another Necro thread, however this is probably of use to you:

Basically, Necro right now is in a position where it’s very reliant on player skill. A lot of other classes are not. Therefore, even against equally skilled players, you’re likely to get trashed as a Necro (or, at least, you’re likely to in anything except the top mmr bracket – but even there a lot of the Necros are pretty bad). However, in saying that they’re equally skilled I would also like to say that they’re probably also pretty mediocre too.
What this increased reliance on skill means for you is that as a Necro you need to focus, and you need to play well in order to not throw games – additionally, this is also true when you have, for example, a semi-decent ele or other form of support on your team. You need to pull your own weight.

But maybe you don’t think you’re that bad at Necro.

I’m going to assume you don’t know what you’re doing wrong and just list out the main things you should be aware of and already proficient at (if you’re “good”) or soon-to-be improving at (if you’re bad or average and want to get “good”).

First of all, can you 1v1 most classes (and can you win most match-ups, as you should)? You should be able to do this even in bad matchups for a decent amount of time (if thieves are ‘instagibbing’ you all the time it’s probably not just because they’re your “counter”). Generally if you want to 1v1 well you’re going to need effective play and kiting (although this is pretty obvious as it’s a central part of conquest at any tier…). Spamming skills on any class is going to be less effective, but as a Necro you’re especially punished for this (classes like thief are too, don’t worry). The flip-side to this is that if you make effective use of yourself then you can do pretty kittening well – as I’ve seen firsthand watching players like Sinid – and, on occasion, myself – manage pressure in 1vXs.

Secondly, do you rotate correctly? Are you ensuring you will be in good fights and will be able to make value out of your rotation? Are you rotating fast enough? Are you taking the correct fights, and disengaging from others?

Moreover, how’s your awareness? Do you watch the map? Do you watch for +1s on your 1v1s and begin to kite or disengage before you’re unable to?

Are you positioning yourself correctly? Or are you running helplessly into a melee versus the 4man ele train rampaging through the node?

Are you taking advantage of your teammates? Are you staying with the Ele or alternative support class when possible? If you aren’t – like most players – please watch for this stuff. Bear in mind also that taking advantage of your teammates’ abilities doesn’t just apply to support classes. For example, Mesmers can support you (sometimes they won’t even mean to) through healing wells, peel (damage, cc, and general focus on attacking enemies to prevent or reduce how much they can do to you), portals, AoE distortion… The list goes on. The same applies to virtually any class (I just picked Mesmer as an example). And, although some obviously carry more things that a Necro can take advantage of than others, they are all worthwhile to watch out for. Teamplay in gw2 is essential, and especially so for this class.

Finally, are you kiting? And, are you kiting enough?
(I know for a fact that a lot of the Necros I face aren’t)
While often overlooked it’s a pretty simple and logical thing to do. No one’s forcing you to die some “honorable” death when you have two or three people on you, and most of the time going rambo-mode into them isn’t going to work out for you. Generally, the smartest thing to do when pressured is to kite. Hop around on the rocks for a bit while managing your cooldowns and soon enough you’ll realise that Necro requires nothing more than a little intelligence to succeed.

If, as you’ve said, you struggle to kite then the first thing you need to work on is awareness. If you’re not able to kite then the thing most likely to be your problem is that you’re kiting too late. Be aware and move intelligently. However, assuming you’re already doing this, the next thing to look at is map knowledge (knowing your kittening PvP jumping puzzles). Kiting isn’t just about running in a straight line. There is terrain for a reason. And, judging by the low mmr brackets most of you who complain about Necro seem to be in, learning all the kite spots on each map should allow you to manage pressure like a god. If you’re not sure what these are just ask in map chat or look it up. Alternatively, just go into a custom arena and work them out.

iTz Joshz.3961:

snip

80% of that wasn’t in regards to 1v1.

But as far as 1v1’s, are you saying you are good enough to win 1v1 vs most other classes? If so, I’d like to see it. Maybe send me a friend invite and I’ll visit your server and watch you do some 1v1’s. I have shadowplay so I can even record the games so you can show other people how well necros are at 1v1s. Sound good?

Trust me. If all you need to do is “get gud”, I’m willing to change my narrative. Just some proof would be swell.

@iTz Joshz.3961:

After about 100 games on Necro I became aware of its limitations, and after another 50 games or so I started to try and kite, stop tunnel visioning and trying to develop map awareness. It’s definitely been significant to my survival.

(Yes, you see, a slow learner)

A lot of the stuff mentioned tell me I’m headed in the right direction, so I’ll see how far your advice will take me. Thanks.

TheDevice.2751:

iTz Joshz.3961:

snip

80% of that wasn’t in regards to 1v1.

But as far as 1v1’s, are you saying you are good enough to win 1v1 vs most other classes? If so, I’d like to see it. Maybe send me a friend invite and I’ll visit your server and watch you do some 1v1’s. I have shadowplay so I can even record the games so you can show other people how well necros are at 1v1s. Sound good?

Trust me. If all you need to do is “get gud”, I’m willing to change my narrative. Just some proof would be swell.

Hit me up ingame whenever and I’ll 1v1 Sinid and you can see how he plays, he’s a god.

And if he can’t I’ll warm up my nec and go for it, idm.

P.S.
In terms of 1v1 tips I’d say be careful about your condi queueing (first condi applied is last removed) as it’s extremely important as a Necro. You want your bleeds and weakness to be the first applied condis so that they’re covered and hard to cleanse. I’d also say that you generally want to use Shroud as utility (kiting with shroud 2 vs melee classes in 1v1s is often better than using it offensively as it allows for more dps to be dropped after for example) and not just your rampage button.
Use your dodges wisely and rotate cooldowns to allow for continuous sustain. Death shroud is your free hp but that doesn’t mean you should let people bomb you in it. Dodge and avoid high condition and damage attacks while in shroud as being condi bombed during it is a recipe for disaster (even if it looks like you have a lot of hp left you’ll be forced to blow cds or waste all your shroud, at which point youre open to burst).
Timing your shrouds is also key to surviving, so be careful with this (dropping shroud while LoS and jumping up to a kite spot is quite nice as you usually have time before they catch you again for shroud to cooldown).

You’ve probably heard most of it before but I hope there’s one or two new tips there

Ralkuth.1456:

@iTz Joshz.3961:

After about 100 games on Necro I became aware of its limitations, and after another 50 games or so I started to try and kite, stop tunnel visioning and trying to develop map awareness. It’s definitely been significant to my survival.

(Yes, you see, a slow learner)

A lot of the stuff mentioned tell me I’m headed in the right direction, so I’ll see how far your advice will take me. Thanks.

Sounds good man! If you’re already aware after 150 games then you’ve definitely got great potential.

If you can, try and watch some videos of top necs or watch them ingame. I don’t have any links at the moment but in terms of names the best are Misha/Sinid in my opinion but Moldrael/Prototype/Imda/Nweo are also great (Obindo, Aurora and Grimkram play Necro a bit too). If you can get a chance to see any of them play (today’s tournament might be a good one) then take it if you can and try learn some tricks!

@iTz Joshz.3961:

That’s extremely useful to know (+ tips you’ve posted). It’s been a runaround to get footage of good players on Necro. That would be a few names I would look out for and study.

From what you say I’ve got it in my head that Condi Necro is a build with very little room for error and is very much capable in the hands of experts. There must be (a lot of) something I’m missing out on. Pre-kiting, duels for matchups, eliminating hesitations.

I’ll definitely watch the tournament – witnessing good players making the plays is a thrill.

iTz Joshz.3961:

TheDevice.2751:

iTz Joshz.3961:

snip

80% of that wasn’t in regards to 1v1.

But as far as 1v1’s, are you saying you are good enough to win 1v1 vs most other classes? If so, I’d like to see it. Maybe send me a friend invite and I’ll visit your server and watch you do some 1v1’s. I have shadowplay so I can even record the games so you can show other people how well necros are at 1v1s. Sound good?

Trust me. If all you need to do is “get gud”, I’m willing to change my narrative. Just some proof would be swell.

Hit me up ingame whenever and I’ll 1v1 Sinid and you can see how he plays, he’s a god.

And if he can’t I’ll warm up my nec and go for it, idm.

P.S.
In terms of 1v1 tips I’d say be careful about your condi queueing (first condi applied is last removed) as it’s extremely important as a Necro. You want your bleeds and weakness to be the first applied condis so that they’re covered and hard to cleanse. I’d also say that you generally want to use Shroud as utility (kiting with shroud 2 vs melee classes in 1v1s is often better than using it offensively as it allows for more dps to be dropped after for example) and not just your rampage button.
Use your dodges wisely and rotate cooldowns to allow for continuous sustain. Death shroud is your free hp but that doesn’t mean you should let people bomb you in it. Dodge and avoid high condition and damage attacks while in shroud as being condi bombed during it is a recipe for disaster (even if it looks like you have a lot of hp left you’ll be forced to blow cds or waste all your shroud, at which point youre open to burst).
Timing your shrouds is also key to surviving, so be careful with this (dropping shroud while LoS and jumping up to a kite spot is quite nice as you usually have time before they catch you again for shroud to cooldown).

You’ve probably heard most of it before but I hope there’s one or two new tips there

As a newbie of necro (just hit lv 52), I was not aware of the importance of condi queneing. Thank you for sharing that. Here is my newbie questions:

1. Currently, I rely heavily on shroud skill 2, Flesh Wurm, and Spectral Walk to kite, but I am worrying about having so much skill to protect myself, what is your suggestion?

2. In high rank pvp, is plagueland a good elite skill?

3. Where could I watch the top necro play in order to learn something?

If you play ranked and get high up of off season u will see some pro players mess around with nec for fun and all though they don’t main it they move very well and are God’s on it. It’s not even their main and they can bring that much of off the class showing how strong it can be if u put all focus on it. As for videos I find Holts has done some Good ones on condi showing how u should move. If u get in a pug game off season in ranked and see missha or helsith bluri or a top tier player, ask them nicely to log necro and watch them play and how they use the map. I am sure if u ask they won’t mind

Gamble.4580:

pro players [..] don’t main it

That’s all we need to see here.

Over to you, Arenanet.

Svarty.8019:

Gamble.4580:

pro players [..] don’t main it

That’s all we need to see here.

Over to you, Arenanet.

Many “pro” players still main it, and in fact most warrior mains who played pro league are now rerolling to it (Obindo, Vans and Rayzen).

:P

Necro is absolutely fine in 1v1, there are probably 3 classes it can’t beat, but that goes with every class

So far after my 1 skill change to " Nothing can save you" I can now take on all classes 1v1. 1,000 block and burn guard was my only issue but now with that and soul spiral on a well its ova for them because squishies go squish . May want to look into your build and wep choices if you can’t 1v1 as necro.

Erzian.5218:

Guard was pretty much the worst class to play last season (as well as the 5 seasons before).

lolwut