Guild Wars 2

Poeple think necromancer is broken because they die using meta builds on solo que. The meta build at MO is for group play so you need a pre-made to make it work at full effect. If you solo que don’t play meta at all play a kite kill build. I solo que on my necromancer on eu Goldilock and don’t play meta and you know what I have little Problems. I don’t die to much I avoid notice, play range and leave before wipe. Necromancer is strong very strong if it’s meta with team or if it’s your own build for solo. You just have to build around the match up you got.

Certainly if you yolo queue into ranked/unranked you should make your own adjustments for personal survival.

The Necro meta-build is intended for pre-mades with support (for an older meta no less) so it would be a source of frustration for the more casual players who seek the “best builds”. Gotta know what you’re in for.

I agree. Meta is set up for t he best 5v5 builds but on some classes u should not use it for solo que. Classes like grd dru ele eng it’s safe to use them for solo que as u will focus so much on team fights. But war thf messages nec Rev should build around what they are vs and be a little selfish

I’m trying different builds but still I can’t find one able to survive to a fight or be selfish enough to win a 1v1 (unless against an engi, the only class we actually counter).
can you help me find one?

1v1 is hard on any build u really have to understand the class you are vs. The reason for this is that they did everything in their power to make necromancer a none 1v1 class. In my eyes utility wise for selfish Rome and 1v1 is worm poison cloud thing that blocks prog and fear wall. U use fear wall vs all classes and move around it dot and pre Rdy for it to finish. It’s an amazing ability and gives u the time u need to think. It’s my version of endure pain. If u lay the poison cloud down at same time u stop Rng on u and melee on fear wall so in that time lay as much dps as u can. And staff ability at feet ready for that push. Lay worm to use after ds and instant take to get that distance and Rdy to choose what to do next.
To add tho I play like a thf and decap and look for the +1. If I am holding close and a grd comes and I feel like my team is to busy to support I would leave and let the grd have to as he/she will be more drawn to the point than Chace me around and I would go support the team fight and bring back team mates to zero grd on a later date. If a thf comes tho I would not run as I have enough experience to know they would chance me around than cap point. So I would stand my ground and fight to death, same with Rev and war. Some mesmer but you should be taking note of the players mind set and play style thought out the game. If a player goes your close at start I bet 200g that’s how he will play for whole game and annoy your outer points. Poeple have set patens and u have to notice them

Even though I solo que sometimes I will focus more on team fights. If I notice I have a ele that is showing signs to want to focus protect me I will look to be more aggressive and even play till death as the chance for ref is high.

So, it’ s ok for any class to have a build that’s easy to access and which can is viable for solo queue, but necro shouldn’t have that option?
With any build I tried the last few weeks it’s impossible to win a 1v1 vs equal skilled opponents (without losing any option to help your team in team fights), but if I jump on a guardian or a thief (classes I have played less than 100 matches with – over 1200 on necro), i can dominate these situations.

Sorry, that’s ridiculous. There is a season starting next week and the majority of the players will solo queue and most teams won’t care if you are a necro and depend heavily on support, they will just let you die.

shagwell.1349:

So, it’ s ok for any class to have a build that’s easy to access and which can is viable for solo queue, but necro shouldn’t have that option?
With any build I tried the last few weeks it’s impossible to win a 1v1 vs equal skilled opponents (without losing any option to help your team in team fights), but if I jump on a guardian or a thief (classes I have played less than 100 matches with – over 1200 on necro), i can dominate these situations.

Sorry, that’s ridiculous. There is a season starting next week and the majority of the players will solo queue and most teams won’t care if you are a necro and depend heavily on support, they will just let you die.

That’s the great problem of necromancers. You can’t do a single 1v1 and hope to survive (unless you’re seriously skilled and against a class/build that heavly rely on boons like some engi builds…and nothing else…).
That’s the reason a large amount of players think that the necro is bad and need improvements and/or buffs to be able to fight. And that’s true.
The problem is causes by the Class Mechanic that grant high damage and survavibility but noth both and only in few situations, that more or less never happen in the actual sPvP.
The necro is a pure team fight class that support the Focus of his allies using corruptions and weaknening the enemy, but need a support to survive and a team that defend him. A necro alone can only die inflicting more possible damage to the enemy and surviving longer as he can.

I will try some of that defensive suggestions and learn better how to play better that class.

@Gamble.4580:

I do liberally use Mr Wurm/Corrosive Poison Cloud when the matchup makes them useful (but the mentions tend to hide in my walls of text). I should try out Fear Wall as well.

Still don’t want to let go of Spectral Armor, but to be honest, it’s done very little in the way of prolonging my survival beside giving me less than enough LF regen in Shroud. The protection gets stripped off by Annulment or abilities immediately anyway.

Corrupt Boon is very handy in dealing with boon-dependent offensive and support classes, so it’s there to stay, for both focusing targets and survival. Although it can be disheartening with the speed at which some classes spew out boons, we can choose when to do so, and the CD is not bad at all.

I think the mindset that Necros are free kills works both ways (although it is pretty thug life).

What do you mean by ok? Being able to beat people of lower skill level then youself? Because thats not ok. In solo/duo queue they are one of the worst classes period. Making changes to builds for more survivability just makes them weaker in there role. I mean thats ridiculous to say well Im going to water down what makes a Nerco good to live a little longer. So you are going to do even less damage. Why would I do that when I could play something else with better sustain and damage? I probably have at least a thousand matches on Necro and they are at the worst spot ever since I started playing mine about 18 months ago. Really except for that sweet spot where deathly chill was actually worthwhile they have been nothing but average to poor and almost always required decent teammates to do well the whole time I have been playing mine.

Well gee, maybe if damage was so excruciatingly high, necros could take advantage of their natural tankiness. And necro damage is part of that problem, so reducing damage would directly nerf necro damage while indirectly buffing necro defence. It’s a win/win.

Silv.9207:

I’m trying different builds but still I can’t find one able to survive to a fight or be selfish enough to win a 1v1 (unless against an engi, the only class we actually counter).
can you help me find one?

This guy seems to know what he’s doing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94E_G8tXvT0

Here’s the guide as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKjLe2dukPE

:D

shagwell.1349:

So, it’ s ok for any class to have a build that’s easy to access and which can is viable for solo queue, but necro shouldn’t have that option?

Have you forgot eles? Or thieves? Those have to rely on teammates.

Dirame.8521:

Silv.9207:

I’m trying different builds but still I can’t find one able to survive to a fight or be selfish enough to win a 1v1 (unless against an engi, the only class we actually counter).
can you help me find one?

This guy seems to know what he’s doing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94E_G8tXvT0

Here’s the guide as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKjLe2dukPE

:D

pre patch core nec could do a lot of things that necro cannot do anymore, because geomancy sigil was so strong/broken. I have never done the math for 7sec geomancy but when it was still 10 sec, geomancy sigil dealt more damage than every single core necro skill except signet of spite, while also being the easiest/most reliable to hit as it was instant. The sigil was literally the best source of damage that necro had access to and all the class skills were garbage compared to it.

Cynz.9437:

shagwell.1349:

So, it’ s ok for any class to have a build that’s easy to access and which can is viable for solo queue, but necro shouldn’t have that option?

Have you forgot eles? Or thieves? Those have to rely on teammates.

The difference is that necro needs ONE specific class to function, eles and thieves work with a variety of different classes/set ups. When you play necro without an ele against good opponents, you are a massive handicap for your team. That is an issue for everyone who does not want to constantly duo queue with an ele.

Erzian.5218:

Cynz.9437:

shagwell.1349:

So, it’ s ok for any class to have a build that’s easy to access and which can is viable for solo queue, but necro shouldn’t have that option?

Have you forgot eles? Or thieves? Those have to rely on teammates.

The difference is that necro needs ONE specific class to function, eles and thieves work with a variety of different classes/set ups. When you play necro without an ele against good opponents, you are a massive handicap for your team. That is an issue for everyone who does not want to constantly duo queue with an ele.

I disagree. You can play fine with scrapper or druid as buddy. I had pretty good experience by playing necro with a druid.

Scrapper/druid instead of an ele is the equivalent to dual thief, it can work under the right circumstances but is generally not where you want to be.
Obviously it works in low plat/gold division or if the opposing team also has a bad team comp but everything works in that case. I mean I played qualification matches on thief after not having played thief for about 3 years and immediately went to top 100 despite having a 2nd thief all day. Game is hard.

Dirame.8521:

This guy seems to know what he’s doing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94E_G8tXvT0

Here’s the guide as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKjLe2dukPE

:D

That videos…
I remember that i had criticized a lot that videos because was really bad. Every single guardian he fought was really bad (enough to do every possible mistakes like stay in the well aoe, active the wrong skills at the worst moment or waste all the stunbreak for nothing), was out of cooldowns (the last was a support build without his Fx abilities…) or he was helped by a teammate to kill the guardian, taking all the glory for no reason.
He was good to play with his build, that’s true, but that build was made only for kill guardians, and unable to kill real skilled players in any single real possible way. he only killed some bad player in unranked, nothing more.

Anyway, he’s for shure a good player and know what he’s doing.

i tried the suggestions but 80% of the time Spectral Wall is more or less ignored by the enemy, a single stability is enough to remove the problem and if the enemy is good he will never dange with you in and out the wall only to lose his stability stacks. A warrior don’t even notice it if have berserker stance.
If the enemy is ranged that’s a useless skill but CCPC work really good (I use it from a lot of time, expecially in condition builds) If the enemy is half melee he can chose to come closer and that skill can work, but a single stability will make my skill useless. I’m not even able to corrupt his stability if he charge me, unless I’m lucky to hit him with the scepter AA (or axe/dagger skill 3 if I’m using a power build) and corrupt that boon.
Any good player after the first fear will just teleport or move around it to hit you. If the enemy have a channeling skill on a ranged weapon there’s nothing useful in that skills.

It’s a good combo but a skilled player will never lose against it.

Also, that combo (with the wurm) fill up all your skills. You become totally useless for your team without any good corruption kill, any good damage and a survavibility chained to a situational combo that work at the best only half of the time and not against skilled players.

I tried it with a condition setup (CCPC inflict weakness on me then it’s a huge problem use it on a Power build) and without good boon corruption skills and Plague Signet my damage was really really low and without corruption skills (I frequently use Corrupt Boon) I was unable to counter stability stacks and corrupt the enemy boons in a way good enough to really support my team. I will never want a so weak necromancer in my team, that can’t survive in high level fights, don’t inflict good damage and can’t do his work properly.
At best you can survive a little longer if the enemy don’t know how to fight you and continue to cross the spectral wall like an id*ot becoming feared all the time long. The second or thirt time the enemy find you on his way you will die without mercy, unless his build is really bad.

I will try it a little longer to know it better and look if it can work in some manner, but I don’t think that in the jet started season there will be so much space for a build like that.

Silv.9207:

Dirame.8521:

This guy seems to know what he’s doing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94E_G8tXvT0

Here’s the guide as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKjLe2dukPE

:D

That videos…
I remember that i had criticized a lot that videos because was really bad. Every single guardian he fought was really bad (enough to do every possible mistakes like stay in the well aoe, active the wrong skills at the worst moment or waste all the stunbreak for nothing), was out of cooldowns (the last was a support build without his Fx abilities…) or he was helped by a teammate to kill the guardian, taking all the glory for no reason.
He was good to play with his build, that’s true, but that build was made only for kill guardians, and unable to kill real skilled players in any single real possible way. he only killed some bad player in unranked, nothing more.

Anyway, he’s for shure a good player and know what he’s doing.

i tried the suggestions but 80% of the time Spectral Wall is more or less ignored by the enemy, a single stability is enough to remove the problem and if the enemy is good he will never dange with you in and out the wall only to lose his stability stacks. A warrior don’t even notice it if have berserker stance.
If the enemy is ranged that’s a useless skill but CCPC work really good (I use it from a lot of time, expecially in condition builds) If the enemy is half melee he can chose to come closer and that skill can work, but a single stability will make my skill useless. I’m not even able to corrupt his stability if he charge me, unless I’m lucky to hit him with the scepter AA (or axe/dagger skill 3 if I’m using a power build) and corrupt that boon.
Any good player after the first fear will just teleport or move around it to hit you. If the enemy have a channeling skill on a ranged weapon there’s nothing useful in that skills.

It’s a good combo but a skilled player will never lose against it.

Also, that combo (with the wurm) fill up all your skills. You become totally useless for your team without any good corruption kill, any good damage and a survavibility chained to a situational combo that work at the best only half of the time and not against skilled players.

I tried it with a condition setup (CCPC inflict weakness on me then it’s a huge problem use it on a Power build) and without good boon corruption skills and Plague Signet my damage was really really low and without corruption skills (I frequently use Corrupt Boon) I was unable to counter stability stacks and corrupt the enemy boons in a way good enough to really support my team. I will never want a so weak necromancer in my team, that can’t survive in high level fights, don’t inflict good damage and can’t do his work properly.
At best you can survive a little longer if the enemy don’t know how to fight you and continue to cross the spectral wall like an id*ot becoming feared all the time long. The second or thirt time the enemy find you on his way you will die without mercy, unless his build is really bad.

I will try it a little longer to know it better and look if it can work in some manner, but I don’t think that in the jet started season there will be so much space for a build like that.

This is no solution, HoT’s POWERCREEP is so powerful.
attack->def + movement->heal , repeat, repeat, repeat (Just two class – ELE and NEC they are out of this system )
Finally, you will only be tortured to death because you have no MOVEMENT to chase. You have no MOVEMENT mean you are a punching bag. You have no way to end them. And They can choose to attack and escape at any time. As you say, there are too many teleport. they don’t need to care about position , their WASD, where you are…. just pass a key when teleport skill CD. This is why a lot of people leave this game, which is why their games, ESL, youtube, Twitch have no viewer. I can say, This is kitten boring.

Cynz.9437:

shagwell.1349:

So, it’ s ok for any class to have a build that’s easy to access and which can is viable for solo queue, but necro shouldn’t have that option?

Have you forgot eles? Or thieves? Those have to rely on teammates.

Thief relies on teammates how? You have the options to pick the fights on a thief, if a fight goes bad you cross the map in the third of the time and try to help in teamfights or uncap elsewhere and no one catches you. Still you can 1v1 many classes on a thief even if you are designed for decaps. Nobody needs to babysit a thief, while a necro needs constant babysitting and won’t escape any bad situation.
Ele is in a similar position as necro, yes. But ele is a support class that can decide a teamfight when the ele player is good. So it’s in the hands of the ele – that’s the difference to necro. Even if you are good necro, you still rely on your team to support you to be useful.

And I really don’t understand how a thief player is coming in here to put his class into a “bad spot”. Thief was one of the top three classes in the last 3-4 seasons. And it will be in a top spot again in S7.

Thief is the class that can “rely” on allies only in team fights, but a good thief will stay away from aoe and down focused players with few hp really fast.
For everything else the thief is the best solo class atm. Really huge damage, insane movement, stealth, dodges. A good thief will win a Lot of 1v1 against different classes and if he can’t he will not even die, he will just teleport away or hide and run to the other corner of the map in few seconds. A good thief never die in a fight 8unless maybe against another thief because is able to catch him).

@Xeonage: yes, that skill combination don’t grant me so much survavibility and i’m always a punching bag and nothing more. Also the necro dps is lower than the dps of maybe any other class, unless for two damage combo really easy to avoid. If play condi the weapons don’t grant any good damage output (staff barely don’t grant damage and the scepter is still a weak condi weapon), our only real condition damage is redirect conditions spammed by an enemy to his allies, and in a power build the only good skill is Axe2, that is a channel skill easy to interrupt with all the amount of CC in that game.
Then there’s the Shroud but half the time I’m not even able to end the RS5+4 combo because stripped out of the shroud by the enemy dps.

Anyway, in the current meta the damage is so high that any defence that isn’t a way to evade the enemy damage is useless. Not even a “second health bar” can save a necromancer.
That second Hp bar can save a necro if necromancers have a damage high enough to justify a so weak defence, but that’s for shure not the case.
We was strong in S1-S2 because at that time our shroud was enough to survive and our dps was really high with Chill (up to 1k/sec by itself with the right build!) but actually we don’t have enough damage to kill the enemy in the short time we can fight him.

That’s one of the reasons that make a necromancer without any boon corruption utility totally useless for his team.

Anyway, in this meta, have a necromancer at 75% of times is more a problem than a resource.

Every class have to rely on team in a 5vs5 game mode.

ofc not as druid/thief/mesmer you dont have to die and run away to do more usefull stuff since those classes have best movement in game unlike necro and guard wo are sacrificed to die in combat simply because they cant escape it

I’ve been using Valkyrie amulet, in combination with the +50% crit trait in Shroud it works exceptionally well.

You still don’t get why people complain about the state of necro, do you? Yes, every class relies on teammates. It is only natural in a 5v5 game mode, but no other class relies on its teammates to the same extent that necro does. Necro has 1 favorable 1v1 outside of support ele who never 1v1s anyways and loses vs everything else. Thief has better 1v1 match ups than necro, yet its not deemed worthy of 1v1s. Now this would not be an issue, if not for the fact that necro is also utterly useless in teamfights unless the rest of the team babysits it. it is by far the easiest class to kill and fortunately focusing the nec also reduces their damage output to about 0 because the combination of long casting times, low stability and inability to kite and reposition themselves makes it so that they cannot succesfully cast anything relevant especially not against thief+something. If you want to resolve any of your spells you need to rely on ele refelcts or teammates peeling for you. NO OTHER class in the game suffers from this to the same extent as necro does, because they all have means to lose focus/disengage or simply skills with low casting time.

Druid is btw literally the worst classto support you as a necro, because they dont have enough damage output to effectively peel for you (except vs other necros as necro is also the only class in the game thwt still blows vs entangle/ancient seeds). While raw heals help with surviving, they don’t help with successfully casting skills and therefore you will just be ccd until you are dead. The stealth is useful but most classes have so many gap closers, that theyll just catch up immediately once you are visible again and due to your own low mobility and the ineffectivity of snares, you wont be able to kite. literally the only thing that you can do yourself to survive as a nec right now, is doing jumping puzzles but then again you have to hope that your ele does them too.

Edit: typing on a tablet is hard,

necro needs massive rework that wont happen and can happen only with future elite specs…..they need to get rid off DS and exchange DS for blocks/invus and movement…..OR to give necro a support role like dark support class like nevewinter scourge warlock who can heal

Amityel.5324:

necro needs massive rework that wont happen and can happen only with future elite specs…..they need to get rid off DS and exchange DS for blocks/invus and movement…..OR to give necro a support role like dark support class like nevewinter scourge warlock who can heal

1. i highly doubt they will remake necro for various reasons (hello pve and people who actually love necro as it is, look at all outrage when they just change some cosmetics)
2. what you describe is basically a brusier like a warrior or scrapper, assuming they did such change, i think necro would be pushed into single target only like this classes as well. Healer necro would be interesting :O

I think what people are trying to convey here is that they are frustrated, while Necro has its limited uses, yes that can be agreed on, it is very tiring to have to have people babysit you in order to do your job on a team.

It is also frustrating to have several classes not just one hard counter but several that can shut you down. Focus fire has always been a thing for necro but combine with that the larger amount of CC and less stability in general and Necro suffers the most from this.

We just want something else in PvP, something less frustrating and seemingly more on par with what other classes just automatically have. I know that no two classes can be equal and necros arent going to get blocks and evades without major class overhaul but giving us back a bit of survivability or some other form of use on teams would be nice.