Guild Wars 2

Regeneration’s effect, like all healing, is blocked by Death Shroud. Unlike some professions, Necromancers have no benefits simply for having a boon and get no special benefit from Regeneration specifically either. No runes will give a benefit for having Regeneration or generic boons either. As such, a Necromancer in Death Shroud is literally receiving no benefit from the boon.

However, there are things that punish the Necromancer for having the boon. Other Necromancers can corrupt it to poison via Corrupt Boon, Well of Corruption, or Path of Corruption. Mesmers and Thieves can steal it with Arcane Thievery, Bountiful Theft, or Larcenous Strike. Mesmers can copy it with Mimic, Necros strip it for extra damage with Spinal Shivers, or Warriors get bonus damage from Destruction of the Empowered.

Unlike traits or skills that get benefits from conditions on a target, the counterplay of removal is not present for boons. Nobody can end their own boon sooner than it would naturally expire. As such, the Regeneration boon turns from buff to liability when a Necromancer activates death shroud.

Credit for this speculation and logic goes to: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Necro in DS doesn’t benefit also from group heals, regen and such. Thats one of reasons why its T2 class.

This is like me complaining I can’t utilize swiftness while using mortar….
Sorry you can’t gain health in your second health pool?? And necros aren’t t2… The only problem is no one plays them well (except nos)… Best team NA has a necro… And I think TCG is trying to use one

Aaron.2413:

This is like me complaining I can’t utilize swiftness while using mortar….
Sorry you can’t gain health in your second health pool?? And necros aren’t t2… The only problem is no one plays them well (except nos)… Best team NA has a necro… And I think TCG is trying to use one

Wow 1 good necromancer out of them all, that’s pretty bold to say lol.

I actually proposed this to Noscoc and he told me it would be a good start to fixing the Necromancer class.

Well it is a second health pool indeed but it is a second health pool that needs to be built up. Just to compare with other mechanics, an invulnerability such as endure pain, mist form etc can absorb a substantial amount of damage, whereas necromancers dont usually see above 50% life force (being generous), unless you are running a power necromancer.

Regardless of balance, this is another one of the many flawed deathshroud mechanics. If you read the post it says that we are punished for having a boon that we may have not even applied to ourselves.

I don’t know if you understand but when we receive the regeneration boon, it does not apply the full benefit to us, but we still have the boon and we can still be punished for it.

EDIT: I’d just like to add some other flawed deathshroud mechanics in this reply:

• teammates cannot tell whether we are in deathshroud or not, when looking at the health bar on the top left
• we cannot see our timers on our skills when we go in deathshroud. This is a problem because we cannot accurately dictate when we should leave deathshroud; sometimes ultimately leading to death.

Jelzouki you made a mistake posting this here, everyone here is going to same the same things I did against the healing in ds.

Here is the original attempt… basically me saying it would be OP if we could be healed by allies in deathshroud and every other necro in existence saying I was wrong and it wouldn’t be OP.

BURST HEALING TERROR NECROS OR LICH NECROS WOULD BE OP.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/balance/Necromancers-Punished-For-Having-Regen/first

Also please stop spouting this nonsense that regen boon “doesn’t apply any benefit to us”….. yes it does. You get healed just like everyone else, just not when you are using your mini easily replenished healthbar that gives eXtra tougnesa damage skills etc when traited.

When you guys are playing with a team and you need a heal tell your teammates if you need a burst heal and coordinate it when you leave ds…. giving us healing in DS would lower our skillcap and makes us OP.

NeXeD.3042:

Jelzouki you made a mistake posting this here, everyone here is going to same the same things I did against the healing in ds.

Here is the original attempt… basically me saying it would be OP if we could be healed by allies in deathshroud and every other necro in existence saying I was wrong and it wouldn’t be OP.

BURST HEALING TERROR NECROS OR LICH NECROS WOULD BE OP.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/balance/Necromancers-Punished-For-Having-Regen/first

Also please stop spouting this nonsense that regen boon “doesn’t apply any benefit to us”….. yes it does. You get healed just like everyone else, just not when you are using your mini easily replenished healthbar that gives eXtra tougnesa damage skills etc when traited.

When you guys are playing with a team and you need a heal tell your teammates if you need a burst heal and coordinate it when you leave ds…. giving us healing in DS would lower our skillcap and makes us OP.

Ok, I’ll write elaborate via /team everytime I need fast heal from my team on ranked solo Q. Sometimes I think, some people forget that majority doesn’t run full time premade on TS…

NeXeD.3042:

Jelzouki you made a mistake posting this here, everyone here is going to same the same things I did against the healing in ds.

Here is the original attempt… basically me saying it would be OP if we could be healed by allies in deathshroud and every other necro in existence saying I was wrong and it wouldn’t be OP.

BURST HEALING TERROR NECROS OR LICH NECROS WOULD BE OP.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/balance/Necromancers-Punished-For-Having-Regen/first

Also please stop spouting this nonsense that regen boon “doesn’t apply any benefit to us”….. yes it does. You get healed just like everyone else, just not when you are using your mini easily replenished healthbar that gives eXtra tougnesa damage skills etc when traited.

Well a necromancer is constantly heading in & out of deathshroud, cutting its effectiveness in some percentage, while other professions can reap the benefits.

Key words: “when traited”

Most traits on the necromancer that give benefits while in deathshroud usually come with a price, but I am aware there are some good ones.

It’s kind of silly how you are so against this all the while Necromancers arguably have the worst healing in the game.

Actually I did not make a mistake posting this here. I submitted a ticket to Arena Net and they told me specifically to post this here.

EDIT: Necromancers have one of the highest skill caps in the game, if you think it would lower our skill cap, I think it would not do much damage to the game.

Jelzouki.4128:

NeXeD.3042:

Jelzouki you made a mistake posting this here, everyone here is going to same the same things I did against the healing in ds.

Here is the original attempt… basically me saying it would be OP if we could be healed by allies in deathshroud and every other necro in existence saying I was wrong and it wouldn’t be OP.

BURST HEALING TERROR NECROS OR LICH NECROS WOULD BE OP.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/balance/Necromancers-Punished-For-Having-Regen/first

Also please stop spouting this nonsense that regen boon “doesn’t apply any benefit to us”….. yes it does. You get healed just like everyone else, just not when you are using your mini easily replenished healthbar that gives eXtra tougnesa damage skills etc when traited.

Well a necromancer is constantly heading in & out of deathshroud, cutting its effectiveness in some percentage, while other professions can reap the benefits.

Key words: “when traited”

Most traits on the necromancer that give benefits while in deathshroud usually come with a price, but I am aware there are some good ones.

It’s kind of silly how you are so against this all the while Necromancers arguably have the worst healing in the game.

Actually I did not make a mistake posting this here. I submitted a ticket to Arena Net and they told me specifically to post this here.

EDIT: Necromancers have one of the highest skill caps in the game, if you think it would lower our skill cap, I think it would not do much damage to the game.

You misunderstand what I wrote about posting and about traiting… but I think it was on purpose.

Your mistake was posting this here will give even more counter arguments against your campaign for unkillable necros. Rather than me being the only one against it.

My point about traits? You have a mini easily replenishable second healthbar that can do multiple things with multiple trait combinations. Seems pretty versatile to me. Now on top of that you want the ability to see saw health bars indefinitely?

Morwath.9817:

NeXeD.3042:

Jelzouki you made a mistake posting this here, everyone here is going to same the same things I did against the healing in ds.

Here is the original attempt… basically me saying it would be OP if we could be healed by allies in deathshroud and every other necro in existence saying I was wrong and it wouldn’t be OP.

BURST HEALING TERROR NECROS OR LICH NECROS WOULD BE OP.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/balance/Necromancers-Punished-For-Having-Regen/first

Also please stop spouting this nonsense that regen boon “doesn’t apply any benefit to us”….. yes it does. You get healed just like everyone else, just not when you are using your mini easily replenished healthbar that gives eXtra tougnesa damage skills etc when traited.

When you guys are playing with a team and you need a heal tell your teammates if you need a burst heal and coordinate it when you leave ds…. giving us healing in DS would lower our skillcap and makes us OP.

Ok, I’ll write elaborate via /team everytime I need fast heal from my team on ranked solo Q. Sometimes I think, some people forget that majority doesn’t run full time premade on TS…

Sometimes I think people forget you have to balance at the highest tier.

Jelzouki.4128:

Aaron.2413:

This is like me complaining I can’t utilize swiftness while using mortar….
Sorry you can’t gain health in your second health pool?? And necros aren’t t2… The only problem is no one plays them well (except nos)… Best team NA has a necro… And I think TCG is trying to use one

Wow 1 good necromancer out of them all, that’s pretty bold to say lol.

I actually proposed this to Noscoc and he told me it would be a good start to fixing the Necromancer class.

Well it is a second health pool indeed but it is a second health pool that needs to be built up. Just to compare with other mechanics, an invulnerability such as endure pain, mist form etc can absorb a substantial amount of damage, whereas necromancers dont usually see above 50% life force (being generous), unless you are running a power necromancer.

Regardless of balance, this is another one of the many flawed deathshroud mechanics. If you read the post it says that we are punished for having a boon that we may have not even applied to ourselves.

I don’t know if you understand but when we receive the regeneration boon, it does not apply the full benefit to us, but we still have the boon and we can still be punished for it.

EDIT: I’d just like to add some other flawed deathshroud mechanics in this reply:

• teammates cannot tell whether we are in deathshroud or not, when looking at the health bar on the top left
• we cannot see our timers on our skills when we go in deathshroud. This is a problem because we cannot accurately dictate when we should leave deathshroud; sometimes ultimately leading to death.

Okay… Lol and if I am 100% hp and someone gives me regen … “Omg I’m being punished someone is going to corrupt it”

As nexed said, this game should be balanced from the highest tier… When I play noscoc he tells us when he needs a heal and we coordinate it…
Also complaining you can’t see your skill cool downs?!?!?!
A. No class can see their other weapon set
B. That’s a serious l2p if you don’t have a clue about your internal cooldowns

There are more than enough ways to gain death shroud… Allowing regen would make it last basically forever (traited for drain) making it basically impossible to kill a necro without wasting lots of offensive cooldowns on 10k health in ds…. If you need a heal… Leave death shroud….

And don’t worry, il try to avoid giving you boons because they make you so vulnerable…

I think the point was for Regeneration to heal actual health, not life force.

The thing people forget is that Life Force is not health. Their only similarity is that damage reduces the amount you have. That is the only similarity.

If you get Regeneration at 100% health, sure, it’s not doing anything. But how long will you stay at 100% health? Not very long at all, at which point the boon immedietly has an effect. Compare to Death Shroud where it is not uncommon for the Necro to spend a third of the fight in that form. If you’re spending a third of the fight at max HP, your opponent is terrible. If you’re spending a third of the fight in Death Shroud, you’re probably playing correctly. Duration of being immune to all benefits of a boon is a very important factor to remember here.

While this is the fourth or fifth time I’ve seen Jelzouki re-post my statements, I don’t see any place in the OP that requests burst heals be available to necros in Death Shroud. Only the Regeneration boon. So, if you’re going to criticize that post in particular, at least focus on what is actually being talked about, not extrapolations.

Well then. I retract everything I have said. Since this appears to only be about the Regeneration boon. How do you make it so regen isn’t a weakness on necros when they are in deathshroud? Should we make it to no one can corrupt steal or remove boons on a necro in DS? Basically that fixes your issue and gives necros a form of immunity that it really doesn’t need. Do we restrict it to just the regen boon? Or do we make it so heals to real hp can go through deathshroud, or do we have healing effect deathshroud?

Also we should probably fix the other classes too, it’s incredibly unfair that the regen boon can be turned against you…. I mean regen is a boon right? So it should be a helpful thing not a chance for another player to take advantage.

Also since I agree it’s unfair that necromancer can see their weapons or utilities while in deathshroud I think engineers and eles should be able to see all their cooldowns on kits and attunement all the time.

NeXeD.3042:

Well then. I retract everything I have said. Since this appears to only be about the Regeneration boon. How do you make it so regen isn’t a weakness on necros when they are in deathshroud? Should we make it to no one can corrupt steal or remove boons on a necro in DS? Basically that fixes your issue and gives necros a form of immunity that it really doesn’t need. Do we restrict it to just the regen boon? Or do we make it so heals to real hp can go through deathshroud, or do we have healing effect deathshroud?

Also we should probably fix the other classes too, it’s incredibly unfair that the regen boon can be turned against you…. I mean regen is a boon right? So it should be a helpful thing not a chance for another player to take advantage.

Also since I agree it’s unfair that necromancer can see their weapons or utilities while in deathshroud I think engineers and eles should be able to see all their cooldowns on kits and attunement all the time.

Quit being an idiot. You’re smarter than this. The answer is to allow the Regeneration boon heal the Necromancer while he is in Death Shroud. Selective healing is proven possible by Unholy Sanctuary. Really not that difficult.

As for seeing utility cooldowns, I see that as unecessary. Would be a nice QoL change, but it is hardly a balance issue.

NeXeD.3042:

Well then. I retract everything I have said. Since this appears to only be about the Regeneration boon. How do you make it so regen isn’t a weakness on necros when they are in deathshroud? Should we make it to no one can corrupt steal or remove boons on a necro in DS? Basically that fixes your issue and gives necros a form of immunity that it really doesn’t need. Do we restrict it to just the regen boon? Or do we make it so heals to real hp can go through deathshroud, or do we have healing effect deathshroud?

Also we should probably fix the other classes too, it’s incredibly unfair that the regen boon can be turned against you…. I mean regen is a boon right? So it should be a helpful thing not a chance for another player to take advantage.

Also since I agree it’s unfair that necromancer can see their weapons or utilities while in deathshroud I think engineers and eles should be able to see all their cooldowns on kits and attunement all the time.

I sense some sarcasm…. but nonetheless, regeneration should apply to necromancers while in deathshroud, THAT is how you fix it.

I just want a self-source of vigor. But tis only a dream.

Jelzouki.4128:

Aaron.2413:

This is like me complaining I can’t utilize swiftness while using mortar….
Sorry you can’t gain health in your second health pool?? And necros aren’t t2… The only problem is no one plays them well (except nos)… Best team NA has a necro… And I think TCG is trying to use one

Wow 1 good necromancer out of them all, that’s pretty bold to say lol.

I actually proposed this to Noscoc and he told me it would be a good start to fixing the Necromancer class.

Well it is a second health pool indeed but it is a second health pool that needs to be built up. Just to compare with other mechanics, an invulnerability such as endure pain, mist form etc can absorb a substantial amount of damage, whereas necromancers dont usually see above 50% life force (being generous), unless you are running a power necromancer.

Regardless of balance, this is another one of the many flawed deathshroud mechanics. If you read the post it says that we are punished for having a boon that we may have not even applied to ourselves.

I don’t know if you understand but when we receive the regeneration boon, it does not apply the full benefit to us, but we still have the boon and we can still be punished for it.

EDIT: I’d just like to add some other flawed deathshroud mechanics in this reply:

• teammates cannot tell whether we are in deathshroud or not, when looking at the health bar on the top left
• we cannot see our timers on our skills when we go in deathshroud. This is a problem because we cannot accurately dictate when we should leave deathshroud; sometimes ultimately leading to death.

He seriously just compared DS to Endure Pain. You have got to be kidding me. An F1 for every 10 seconds that functions as another HP bar has an instant fear, a root, and grants stability CANNOT be compared to Endure Pain. The fact that Necro can blink and have stability every 10 seconds is A LOT more broken than anything Warrior has atm.

Learn to play already. If you aren’t making Necromancer work, you have no idea how easy chain fear is or how easy it is to bait out dodges as a Necro. You are clearly a casual who is trying to get things to change even though you’ve never gotten at the highest peak of the class yet.

Amir.1570:

Jelzouki.4128:

Aaron.2413:

This is like me complaining I can’t utilize swiftness while using mortar….
Sorry you can’t gain health in your second health pool?? And necros aren’t t2… The only problem is no one plays them well (except nos)… Best team NA has a necro… And I think TCG is trying to use one

Wow 1 good necromancer out of them all, that’s pretty bold to say lol.

I actually proposed this to Noscoc and he told me it would be a good start to fixing the Necromancer class.

Well it is a second health pool indeed but it is a second health pool that needs to be built up. Just to compare with other mechanics, an invulnerability such as endure pain, mist form etc can absorb a substantial amount of damage, whereas necromancers dont usually see above 50% life force (being generous), unless you are running a power necromancer.

Regardless of balance, this is another one of the many flawed deathshroud mechanics. If you read the post it says that we are punished for having a boon that we may have not even applied to ourselves.

I don’t know if you understand but when we receive the regeneration boon, it does not apply the full benefit to us, but we still have the boon and we can still be punished for it.

EDIT: I’d just like to add some other flawed deathshroud mechanics in this reply:

• teammates cannot tell whether we are in deathshroud or not, when looking at the health bar on the top left
• we cannot see our timers on our skills when we go in deathshroud. This is a problem because we cannot accurately dictate when we should leave deathshroud; sometimes ultimately leading to death.

He seriously just compared DS to Endure Pain. You have got to be kidding me. An F1 for every 10 seconds that functions as another HP bar has an instant fear, a root, and grants stability CANNOT be compared to Endure Pain. The fact that Necro can blink and have stability every 10 seconds is A LOT more broken than anything Warrior has atm.

Learn to play already. If you aren’t making Necromancer work, you have no idea how easy chain fear is or how easy it is to bait out dodges as a Necro. You are clearly a casual who is trying to get things to change even though you’ve never gotten at the highest peak of the class yet.

If necromancers indeed had as much utility as you insinuate, we would be more of a meta class instead of hanging on as a niche boon corrupter. You literally cannot have “another up bar” and stability every 10 seconds. You can’t blink, it’s a gap closer that can be dodged. That second Hp bar has no heal or condition removal. Your post is laced with hyperbole.

Amir.1570:

Jelzouki.4128:

Aaron.2413:

This is like me complaining I can’t utilize swiftness while using mortar….
Sorry you can’t gain health in your second health pool?? And necros aren’t t2… The only problem is no one plays them well (except nos)… Best team NA has a necro… And I think TCG is trying to use one

Wow 1 good necromancer out of them all, that’s pretty bold to say lol.

I actually proposed this to Noscoc and he told me it would be a good start to fixing the Necromancer class.

Well it is a second health pool indeed but it is a second health pool that needs to be built up. Just to compare with other mechanics, an invulnerability such as endure pain, mist form etc can absorb a substantial amount of damage, whereas necromancers dont usually see above 50% life force (being generous), unless you are running a power necromancer.

Regardless of balance, this is another one of the many flawed deathshroud mechanics. If you read the post it says that we are punished for having a boon that we may have not even applied to ourselves.

I don’t know if you understand but when we receive the regeneration boon, it does not apply the full benefit to us, but we still have the boon and we can still be punished for it.

EDIT: I’d just like to add some other flawed deathshroud mechanics in this reply:

• teammates cannot tell whether we are in deathshroud or not, when looking at the health bar on the top left
• we cannot see our timers on our skills when we go in deathshroud. This is a problem because we cannot accurately dictate when we should leave deathshroud; sometimes ultimately leading to death.

He seriously just compared DS to Endure Pain. You have got to be kidding me. An F1 for every 10 seconds that functions as another HP bar has an instant fear, a root, and grants stability CANNOT be compared to Endure Pain. The fact that Necro can blink and have stability every 10 seconds is A LOT more broken than anything Warrior has atm.

Learn to play already. If you aren’t making Necromancer work, you have no idea how easy chain fear is or how easy it is to bait out dodges as a Necro. You are clearly a casual who is trying to get things to change even though you’ve never gotten at the highest peak of the class yet.

Please don’t say necro stability or dark path is op lol of all things you could pick.

I’m against the healing in deathshroud with everything except traited abilities like vamp, contagion etc. But what you just said is crazy

As a necro, I can tell the person that said “You get stability every 10 sec going into DS”, LOLOL. NO necro traits for this. It is a grand master trait that you loose WAY to much to trait for. Not even close to worth it, as juicy as it sounds. That’s like saying a warrior can have 40-60 seconds of stability, so it’s OP. You will NEVER see a warrior stack all stability utilities for the same reason. Not worth it. Move it down a tier so it’s not a grand master trait and then you will see some necros use it. Until then you cannot possibly use the 3 second stability every 10 seconds is OP argument. You can’t use it in any argument to validate anything; because it isn’t used. If someone is using it, then they will be easy to kill and it won’t bother you anyway.

Amir.1570:

Jelzouki.4128:

Aaron.2413:

This is like me complaining I can’t utilize swiftness while using mortar….
Sorry you can’t gain health in your second health pool?? And necros aren’t t2… The only problem is no one plays them well (except nos)… Best team NA has a necro… And I think TCG is trying to use one

Wow 1 good necromancer out of them all, that’s pretty bold to say lol.

I actually proposed this to Noscoc and he told me it would be a good start to fixing the Necromancer class.

Well it is a second health pool indeed but it is a second health pool that needs to be built up. Just to compare with other mechanics, an invulnerability such as endure pain, mist form etc can absorb a substantial amount of damage, whereas necromancers dont usually see above 50% life force (being generous), unless you are running a power necromancer.

Regardless of balance, this is another one of the many flawed deathshroud mechanics. If you read the post it says that we are punished for having a boon that we may have not even applied to ourselves.

I don’t know if you understand but when we receive the regeneration boon, it does not apply the full benefit to us, but we still have the boon and we can still be punished for it.

EDIT: I’d just like to add some other flawed deathshroud mechanics in this reply:

• teammates cannot tell whether we are in deathshroud or not, when looking at the health bar on the top left
• we cannot see our timers on our skills when we go in deathshroud. This is a problem because we cannot accurately dictate when we should leave deathshroud; sometimes ultimately leading to death.

He seriously just compared DS to Endure Pain. You have got to be kidding me. An F1 for every 10 seconds that functions as another HP bar has an instant fear, a root, and grants stability CANNOT be compared to Endure Pain. The fact that Necro can blink and have stability every 10 seconds is A LOT more broken than anything Warrior has atm.

Learn to play already. If you aren’t making Necromancer work, you have no idea how easy chain fear is or how easy it is to bait out dodges as a Necro. You are clearly a casual who is trying to get things to change even though you’ve never gotten at the highest peak of the class yet.

So I don’t know if you were trying to emphasize this but basically every fear in the game is “instant”.

Also, if you get immobilized by the long cast time that is Tainted Shackles there isn’t really much to be said except use your dodges; it is super predictable! On-par with Churning Earths predictability.

I didn’t call Warrior broken, I merely used endure pain to compare deathshroud to other class invulnerability. Did you read the post? I am simply calling out a design flaw; giving necromancers regeneration in deathshroud has got be close to dead last on the list of things that could make necromancers OP!

EDIT: I never see ANY necromancer take the stability trait, it is not worthy of the grandmaster tier.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unholy_Sanctuary
this is a regen in DS and scale with healing power
spend some time to make a build with this trait

I agree that regeneration should still apply to (ie. increase) your health pool after you have gone into death shroud, unless it is removed or corrupted; this should just be taken for granted, that boons should do their job for necromancers just as they do for other professions. Swiftness, stability etc. all still apply when in ds, it seems odd that necromancers shouldn’t naturally benefit from the regeneration boon as other classes do.

Similarly, I believe that heals given when the necromancer is in ds should still apply to, and increase, their health pool, not the ds. Co-ordinating heals is less of a problem for pre-mades, but obviously more difficult in solo queues; the necro has to rely on the other team-mates understanding the necromancer profession, which many do not, and it is arguably too much to demand that they all should.

Nexed talking about balancing for the highest tier, which to my knowledge he has had no experience of, is rather funny. He has disagreed with OP but has given no good reasons to do so. Giving this healing to necromancers is a fair buff, helping their survivability in team fights, and putting their healing more on a par to other professions.

This will just be a minor buff, in particular that regen will give more healing. Nexed’s worries about necromancers becoming over-powered are unsubstantiated and, in my opinion, nonsense.

Dredd Spirit Caller.4082:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unholy_Sanctuary
this is a regen in DS and scale with healing power
spend some time to make a build with this trait

To even suggest using that trait in a build shows just how much you know about necro’s in this game. First, going 6 in to death magic which is toughness/boon duration traitline for a inside DS health regen trait is odd to begin with. Second, the scaling of the regen even with a ton of healing power is subpar at best and the actual heal is laughable small to even be useful. Third, with 6 points invested in death magic you kitten your self from taking more valuable traits from other traitlines that would give you more benefit for your investment.
These are just some of the top reasons unholy sanctuary fails at its job and I’m sure other necro’s could give you even more reasons why traits like this one and others just plainly suck kitten out of a tube.

Actually, I’ve been using Unholy Sanctuary a lot lately. It’s a pretty good trait when you learn how to use it (and if they ever introduce a Zealot’s amulet to PvP). It won’t be meta, sure, but it can actually be used in some decent builds.

Still, not really enough. It might be with a couple of other sources of healing in Death Shroud, but not quite on its own.

As to the “Stability every 10 seconds,” Yes, Necros can do that. To do so, they literally give up all use of Death Shroud aside from entry effects (nobody uses Deathly Invigoration, the only “on exit” trait), meaning they have absolutely no defense. If they go for their high Stability uptime, they melt faster than a stick of butter in a smelter.

Ovid.7135:

I agree that regeneration should still apply to (ie. increase) your health pool after you have gone into death shroud, unless it is removed or corrupted; this should just be taken for granted, that boons should do their job for necromancers just as they do for other professions. Swiftness, stability etc. all still apply when in ds, it seems odd that necromancers shouldn’t naturally benefit from the regeneration boon as other classes do.

Similarly, I believe that heals given when the necromancer is in ds should still apply to, and increase, their health pool, not the ds. Co-ordinating heals is less of a problem for pre-mades, but obviously more difficult in solo queues; the necro has to rely on the other team-mates understanding the necromancer profession, which many do not, and it is arguably too much to demand that they all should.

Nexed talking about balancing for the highest tier, which to my knowledge he has had no experience of, is rather funny. He has disagreed with OP but has given no good reasons to do so. Giving this healing to necromancers is a fair buff, helping their survivability in team fights, and putting their healing more on a par to other professions.

This will just be a minor buff, in particular that regen will give more healing. Nexed’s worries about necromancers becoming over-powered are unsubstantiated and, in my opinion, nonsense.

Soooo… since I haven’t playet at the highest tier I’m am not allowed to say pvp should be balanced at the highest tier. I see so clearly now I am nonsense. Btw you know why you think all healing in ds should be ok? I have seen you play it’s because your rotations and positioning are bad.

Full healing in Death Shroud is a decent end goal. It is not something that should be even considered as a step. Given my play with Unholy Sanctuary (I don’t claim to be fantastic), I can guarantee you that if Necros had full healing while in death shroud right now, it would be vastly overpowered.

We need more than we have, yes, but all healing would be broken. Start with just traited healing/siphons and Regeneration boon. Evaluate from there, possibly extending to sigils and food. Again, evaluate, then expand. Baby steps are necessary on this.

I agree I think the easiest way is for vamp, make it work in ds and it would open up new builds for blood, some people would probably pair it up with death magic for us and be an incredible tank. Vamp would also still need a little boost in base effectiveness.

Getting healed in DS would be a terrible thing, especially for power necros. Most people don’t understand the grandmaster trait in the spite tree. It is designed for DS. “Siphoned Power – Gain might when stuck while your health is below the threshold. Health threshold 25%.” You’re in a fight building your life force and u activate this minor trait, (by almost dying) pop a full DS with it and its kitten near game over (1v1 situation). You can get to 25 stacks of might in no time especially if paired with “Reaper’s Might”. A power necro with 25 stacks of might with 50-75% DS (not 100% because getting hit in DS is what stacks your might) with an on demand fear to set up life blasts should never be taken lightly. If properly traited and set up, a necro can crit 4-8K Life blasts depending on the enemy (heavy-Medium-Light) along with 3-4k air sigil proc, 3-4k fire sigil proc, and a 3-4k traited spinal shivers proc. Its not likely to proc them all on the same hit, but it is possible. I know it is possible because i have done it and i have it recorded in my necro pvp video. And no it was not done on a practice dummy, it was in a live soloq game.
If necros got healed in DS, then the grandmaster minor trait in the spite tree (siphoned power) would be as useless as people currently think it is. It would essentially Nerf the already not so good power necro. Not so good in terms of survivability not damage. People need to learn how to play classes and use all of their skills before asking for ANET for game changes to help their classes.

You bring up what is likely the worst grandmaster trait in the game as a reason for Necros never getting healing in death shroud?

Let me spell it out for you: Siphoned Power Sucks. Horribly. To get any reasonable Might out of the trait, you will have already lost most of your life force as well as being below 25% health. And you have to keep getting hit because each stack lasts a mere 5 seconds. To get anything out of that trait, you have to be in literally the worst possible situation, and then what you get isn’t that great. You claim it’s even possible to get that trait stacking with 50-75% life force remaining. It isn’t. Unless you’re being attacked by a downed Necro (which isn’t a threat), your life force is down to around 25%.

25% life force and <25% health. How helpful is anything that doesn’t protect you in that situation?

“25% life force and <25% health. How helpful is anything that doesn’t protect you in that situation?”

You clearly don’t know how this trait works. It revolves around your NORMAL health pool. As was stated above that most people don’t seem to understand is that DS IS NOT HEALTH. If you cant stack at 50-75% DS in a 1v1 before you die, then you are completely garbage. Anyway, back to explaining this trait to you. Lets just say you’re in a 1v1 and you get all the way down to below 25% of your normal health pool. As soon as hit that threshold siphoned power is activated. If you pop DS it is still activated and every time you get hit you gain might. It doesn’t matter if you have 95% DS or 10% DS, siphoned power will still give you might every time you are hit while your NORMAL health pool is below the 25% threshold. So you can be at 90% DS and get might every time you are hit as long as your NORMAL health pool is below 25%.

If you dont think this is useful, then let me give you a situation that isnt crazy and farfetched. As a normal 1v1 is playing out my opponent and myself have both used a majority of our cooldowns. My opponent then thinks he has the match in the bag, but what he doesn’t know is that i have been saving my DS (because I’m smart and i know how to use a necros skills in a power build). So he gets me down just low enough to activate siphoned power and doesnt have much burst left (because he used it trying to kill me) , i pop into my 50-75% DS. Since he doesnt have his bursts ready, he cant take me out of DS very fast, and every time he hits me i gain might, along with every time i use life blast i also gain might. Pair this with the trait “vital persistence” and his attacks will do even less damage to my life force. So now we are both on cooldowns my health pool is below 25% and he has no means of effectively taking me out of DS, each time he hits me he buffs my already powerful DS auto attack 1. lets say he hits me 5 times, thats 5 stacks of might. In that time i will also hit him 5 times with auto attack 1, thats another 5 stacks of might (10 stacks total in what like 10 seconds). Now my DS is almost gone, and he somehow doesnt die from my 5 auto attacks, I use my fear and life blast him to death. Game, set, match.

You also say that 5 seconds isnt long enough of a duration, or that only a necro in downed state can give you a good amount of might stacks from this trait, then you dont understand how most of the other classes work either. There are a good amount of classes out there that focus on hitting you multiple times in a very short period of time, which exactly what you want when trying to utilize this trait. So please learn ALL of the skills before you ask to nerf yourself into the ground.

I know exactly how the trait works. If you are getting might stacks from it, you are <25% health. However, you can soak those hits in death shroud. Soaking those hits, however, depletes your death shroud rapidly in addition to natural decay.

As such, if you are getting anything more than just 5-6 stacks of Might from the trait, your life force is draining very, very rapidly. Getting decent Might stacks with the trait means your life force is nearly depleted. Ergo, the realistic scenario of getting a decent benefit from the trait means you are ~25% life force and <25% health. It doesn’t protect you, so to get milage, you are in a horrid situation. The only thing that can hit you that rapidly for a small enough amount of damage to not anihalate your life force is a downed necro hitting 1.

I question if you know what “Vital Persistance” does, since you say “air this with the trait “vital persistence” and his attacks will do even less damage to my life force,” which is 100% false.

Let me be clear. I am not the one to lecture to about Necromancer mechanics. I know the ins and outs of every skill, trait, and mechanic the Necromancer has. I can even recite to you every past version of every trait and skill for Necromancers since launch (and some from beta) from memory. Come check out the Necromancer forum sometime. Ask around. There is a reason I am one of the most well-known Necros on these boards.

DarkMezmer.5198:

Dredd Spirit Caller.4082:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unholy_Sanctuary
this is a regen in DS and scale with healing power
spend some time to make a build with this trait

To even suggest using that trait in a build shows just how much you know about necro’s in this game. First, going 6 in to death magic which is toughness/boon duration traitline for a inside DS health regen trait is odd to begin with. Second, the scaling of the regen even with a ton of healing power is subpar at best and the actual heal is laughable small to even be useful. Third, with 6 points invested in death magic you kitten your self from taking more valuable traits from other traitlines that would give you more benefit for your investment.
These are just some of the top reasons unholy sanctuary fails at its job and I’m sure other necro’s could give you even more reasons why traits like this one and others just plainly suck kitten out of a tube.

sure i dont play necro (only MM necro on pvp daily) but for FUN i try to diversificate my play and create test build
this is 1 of my test build http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNBmQDbkjmWbLux2GOcT8MUSHBBQzOVIQ9PME7AA-TJxHwACuIAn2fYZZAAPBAA
high survivability low damage, but u know that, if u get high dmg and high survivability at the same time, u will be to OP and balance is broken again
for what u write u play only some know necro build and never try to create ur own build

NeXeD.3042:

Soooo… since I haven’t playet at the highest tier I’m am not allowed to say pvp should be balanced at the highest tier. I see so clearly now I am nonsense. Btw you know why you think all healing in ds should be ok? I have seen you play it’s because your rotations and positioning are bad.

Sure necros should be balanced with all tiers in mind, just you don’t know what it means to be balanced for high tier, that’s all.

Btw, sweet that you’ve seen me play babe, I appreciate my fans, even if they don’t understand what they’re watching, but all the more viewers the better.

I stick with my support that regeneration should apply to the original health pool even after a necro goes into death shroud, just to make the healing of necros more on a par to other professions. This is a very minor buff, necros are obviously successfully playable without it. Healing for necros has always been a difficulty, as, here Nexed you’ll like this one, at higher tiers the necro heal is frequently and easily continuously interrupted, in fact it’s the easiest heal in the game to interrupt. Even with fancy spectral walk recalls and wurm popping, an industrious thief or anyone clever should always prevent a necro from healing. Thus a bit more regen would put necro’s healing more on a par to other classes/

I do support, though with less certainty, that heals should be able to be applied while in ds; for premades, this makes no difference really because heals are co-ordinated, but for solo queues, this would prevent the necro from relying on his team-mates to watch when he is in ds or not.

I posted a similar thread about stealth and the need to be able to self-remove, if beneficial.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Stealth-Improvement-Suggestion-Developers/first#post4665653

Ovid.7135:

NeXeD.3042:

Soooo… since I haven’t playet at the highest tier I’m am not allowed to say pvp should be balanced at the highest tier. I see so clearly now I am nonsense. Btw you know why you think all healing in ds should be ok? I have seen you play it’s because your rotations and positioning are bad.

Sure necros should be balanced with all tiers in mind, just you don’t know what it means to be balanced for high tier, that’s all.

Btw, sweet that you’ve seen me play babe, I appreciate my fans, even if they don’t understand what they’re watching, but all the more viewers the better.

I stick with my support that regeneration should apply to the original health pool even after a necro goes into death shroud, just to make the healing of necros more on a par to other professions. This is a very minor buff, necros are obviously successfully playable without it. Healing for necros has always been a difficulty, as, here Nexed you’ll like this one, at higher tiers the necro heal is frequently and easily continuously interrupted, in fact it’s the easiest heal in the game to interrupt. Even with fancy spectral walk recalls and wurm popping, an industrious thief or anyone clever should always prevent a necro from healing. Thus a bit more regen would put necro’s healing more on a par to other classes/

I do support, though with less certainty, that heals should be able to be applied while in ds; for premades, this makes no difference really because heals are co-ordinated, but for solo queues, this would prevent the necro from relying on his team-mates to watch when he is in ds or not.

You are severely understimating me. You really think I don’t know cc is the easiest heal to interupt? BTW it’s uninteruprable with wurm if you do it right. There are also other ways to get that heal off. But you must know that right?

I don’t watch your twitch I saw you in one tourney and you are ok but I wouldn’t call you high tier.

But just because someone isn’t high tier doesn’t mean they can’t say the game should be balanced at high tier. Not all tiers. If you balance for all tiers you end up with a useless class like the mesmer right now. Wrecks noobs and mid level is god awful in high tier unless a select few players are using it. Hell even then they might be better of switching.

NeXeD.3042:

You are severely understimating me.

how much severely?

DaLup.2913:

“25% life force and <25% health. How helpful is anything that doesn’t protect you in that situation?”

You clearly don’t know how this trait works. It revolves around your NORMAL health pool. As was stated above that most people don’t seem to understand is that DS IS NOT HEALTH. If you cant stack at 50-75% DS in a 1v1 before you die, then you are completely garbage. Anyway, back to explaining this trait to you. Lets just say you’re in a 1v1 and you get all the way down to below 25% of your normal health pool. As soon as hit that threshold siphoned power is activated. If you pop DS it is still activated and every time you get hit you gain might. It doesn’t matter if you have 95% DS or 10% DS, siphoned power will still give you might every time you are hit while your NORMAL health pool is below the 25% threshold. So you can be at 90% DS and get might every time you are hit as long as your NORMAL health pool is below 25%.

If you dont think this is useful, then let me give you a situation that isnt crazy and farfetched. As a normal 1v1 is playing out my opponent and myself have both used a majority of our cooldowns. My opponent then thinks he has the match in the bag, but what he doesn’t know is that i have been saving my DS (because I’m smart and i know how to use a necros skills in a power build). So he gets me down just low enough to activate siphoned power and doesnt have much burst left (because he used it trying to kill me) , i pop into my 50-75% DS. Since he doesnt have his bursts ready, he cant take me out of DS very fast, and every time he hits me i gain might, along with every time i use life blast i also gain might. Pair this with the trait “vital persistence” and his attacks will do even less damage to my life force. So now we are both on cooldowns my health pool is below 25% and he has no means of effectively taking me out of DS, each time he hits me he buffs my already powerful DS auto attack 1. lets say he hits me 5 times, thats 5 stacks of might. In that time i will also hit him 5 times with auto attack 1, thats another 5 stacks of might (10 stacks total in what like 10 seconds). Now my DS is almost gone, and he somehow doesnt die from my 5 auto attacks, I use my fear and life blast him to death. Game, set, match.

You also say that 5 seconds isnt long enough of a duration, or that only a necro in downed state can give you a good amount of might stacks from this trait, then you dont understand how most of the other classes work either. There are a good amount of classes out there that focus on hitting you multiple times in a very short period of time, which exactly what you want when trying to utilize this trait. So please learn ALL of the skills before you ask to nerf yourself into the ground.

What is flawed with your scenario is that when your opponent shakes you out of deathshroud, you are most likely dead. In my opinion, a trait such as this one that requires you to be in a detrimental state, shouldn’t give such low reward. Let’s stay on topic please!

EDIT: Vital Persistence doesn’t make your opponent do less damage….

Dredd Spirit Caller.4082:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unholy_Sanctuary
this is a regen in DS and scale with healing power
spend some time to make a build with this trait

The amount of better attributes you need to sacrifice to use this trait just outweighs its potential imho.

Phaeton.9582:

NeXeD.3042:

You are severely understimating me.

how much severely?

He didn’t think I understood how the only heal worth taking on my main class works…..