Guild Wars 2

EDIT: Not only necros, necros are a victim at best, it is conditions/cleanses interactions in the game atm for squishies and/or people non-heavy-cond-removal-traited

Im not saying that necros dont “deserve” this buffs they got lately, but I think you went a little bit over board with it, right now there is at least 2-3 necros in everygame and the amount of conditions they can put up which are nearly uncleansable is too much.

Before you decided that reading that much was enough to give an answer, let me tell you that i play classes that are on the squishier side, meaning that conditions (unlike raw damage) cant be mitigated and given my 11k-13k hp pool they can quickly burn me out if I dont cleanse it. I dont mind cleansing 2-4 conditions at once with a 40 seconds skill, there are still like 2-3 left on me so its not like they suddenly become useless. But you know something is wrong when ALL those conditions get reapplied in less than 10 seconds later and burn me through in a sec while they get to have two lifebars (also necros have one of the higher HP in the game, so dont tell me they are squishy).

It cuts too much into peoples build, instead of having some counterplay all you have to do with necros is clean and attempt to run before you get feared and tormeneted again.

Right now I believe they need to be toned down a bit or rethink the whole condition/clean gameplay interaction so that classes like eles and guardians dont have to FULLY specc into defensive traits just to be able to clean all those conditions …. fora few seconds before they kill you anyways. That or rethink the way conditions do true inmitigable damage that can burn a 11k hp ele which isnt water/arcana or a 13k hp guardian who is more on the team utility side or DPS (and given the current state of the game; melee is unviable for most classes that arent water/arcana D/D or thief D/D).

Fortus.6175:

right now there is at least 2-3 necros in everygame

there it is, there’s the issue you even just said it yourself

11k is on the low end of HP pool for ele.. like glass low.

I’m not sayng Necro’s don’t need toned down, or that ele’s normally have high hp, but maybe you should put some traits into defense instead of running glass.

And yes, it doesn’t help that they have a healthy population now. It was the same with thieves (still is really) when they had their backstab build, and that lasted for months.

hamsteak.1368:

Fortus.6175:

right now there is at least 2-3 necros in everygame

there it is, there’s the issue you even just said it yourself

they dont have to be on the same team…..you know…..

also, ever faced a engi/necro duo?! I bet you havent or are a necro/engi.

Lets face it, they are on the OP si….errrgh, strong[est] side

Chesire.9043:

11k is on the low end of HP pool for ele.. like glass low.

I’m not sayng Necro’s don’t need toned down, or that ele’s normally have high hp, but maybe you should put some traits into defense instead of running glass.

And yes, it doesn’t help that they have a healthy population now. It was the same with thieves (still is really) when they had their backstab build, and that lasted for months.

I said 11k-13k, anything non-soldier gives you those stats on eles, even valkiry, which leaves you at 10k without any water.

Please dont backlash with l2p statements, I kno how to play and im well aware of including defensive stuff in my build, thats why i pack condition cleanse (at least 2, either on heal ethereal and cleansing flames or get some points on water for cleansing)

Even with that it’s REALLY hard to avoid conditions from necros and cleansing them all, and even if you do, they get reapplied in a few seconds, while every cleanse is on CD, counterplay is close to none; righ risks/low rewards, fail once and bam dead, they fail once, no worries, wait till CDs are up again.

necromancers have CD’s too and they are very long.

and you shouldn’t be able to cleanse all conditions. It’s the way necros do damage. Why you should be able to negate all damage from a class? So you can kill them easy like you used to do before the patch?

vicious.5683:

necromancers have CD’s too and they are very long.

and you shouldn’t be able to cleanse all conditions. It’s the way necros do damage. Why you should be able to negate all damage from a class? So you can kill them easy like you used to do before the patch?

HAH! gotcha, you one of those that dont read the entire post! Here is my proof:

Fortus.6175:

I dont mind cleansing 2-4 conditions at once with a 40 seconds skill, there are still like 2-3 left on me so its not like they suddenly become useless.

shame on you, bro :/

oh and no, they now also have a LOT more CC, even fear got buffed tremendously.

Fortus.6175:

Even with that it’s REALLY hard to avoid conditions from necros and cleansing them all, and even if you do, they get reapplied in a few seconds, while every cleanse is on CD, counterplay is close to none; righ risks/low rewards, fail once and bam dead, they fail once, no worries, wait till CDs are up again.

read your own post.
your goal it’s to avoid conditions and cleanse them all, and its natural, since you want to win the fight. But this is not the way. You have to cleanse some conditions and do your own thing before conditions kill you.

something else, if you are Ok with not remove all conditions, why are you complaining?

vicious.5683:

Fortus.6175:

Even with that it’s REALLY hard to avoid conditions from necros and cleansing them all, and even if you do, they get reapplied in a few seconds, while every cleanse is on CD, counterplay is close to none; righ risks/low rewards, fail once and bam dead, they fail once, no worries, wait till CDs are up again.

read your own post.
your goal it’s to avoid conditions and cleanse them all, and its natural, since you want to win the fight. But this is not the way. You have to cleanse some conditions and do your own thing before conditions kill you.

something else, if you are Ok with not remove all conditions, why are you complaining?

because the interaction is too once sided, towards the condition side. Its ok to do damage with conditions, but having your only way of damage only on conditions which only counterplay is either cleansing/killing the enemy since they tend to give up raw damage and defense for it, but currently necros have 2 hp bars and one of the highest hp out there, together with CC. You cant burst, you cant cleanse, you cant outlast, you cant heal, only option left is to run away, and even that can be hard given the amount of CC and new torment they have. Im sorry, but you are not reading my post carefully.

Im asking for counterplay, right now the counterplay is very limited (if any), i dont ask to cleanse all conditions, but at least make them think about it, instead of just ApE spam them, and just walk way until CDs are up again in a couple of seconds while my 40-60 underwhelming cleanses are on CD.

Characters with condition damge done right is mesmer staff; icaster does more damage the more conditions you have, but at no point is ALL damage based on hit or not, and they relay on other stuff other than AoE spam enemies hoping for the best, rinse and repeat in a few seconds

Conditions are so completely out of hand. No part of their use promotes fun gameplay. I played maybe… 8 tourneys in a row where the other team ran some combination of necro/engineer/third condi. This is the absolute stupidest kittening kitten in the game right now. There’s no such thing as competitive play right now and it’s the dumbest I’ve ever seen this game.

I know ANet doesn’t really do this but we need a hotfix of some kind. Tourneys are in no way fun right now. A meta where whoever kittens out the most conditions in an AoE in the best manner is the lamest meta. This needs to be handled. And fast.

Fortus.6175:

oh and no, they now also have a LOT more CC, even fear got buffed tremendously.

Why do people keep saying Fear got buffed? People have been running the same Fear build for months! The only Fear related changes were nerfing Corrupt Boon so it no longer guarantees a stability conversion into Fear, bumping Terror up a trait line, adding Fear to spectral wall which only makes the spell finally viable since launch, and giving a slight duration buff to Doom but only in close range. Please explain to me how any of that suddenly makes Fear broken and overpowered? The fact that people run with Sigil of paralyzation?

Hanzo.9624:

Why do people keep saying Fear got buffed?

Because;

Hanzo.9624:

People have been running the same Fear build for months! The only Fear related changes were nerfing Corrupt Boon so it no longer guarantees a stability conversion into Fear, bumping Terror up a trait line, adding Fear to spectral wall which only makes the spell finally viable since launch, and giving a slight duration buff to Doom but only in close range.

The “slight duration buff” to Doom and Spectral Wall getting fear were enormous buffs to fear and Terror. It’s the difference between interrupting a cast or wearing someone down and a full-on stunlock.

Hi Paper….meet Scissors…
It basically boils down to: Know your class limits and know the enemy’s class limits. Reacting accordingly to counter the opponents. This method is the basics to ANY PvP scene. The reason for the out cry on Nero’s because they are no longer a free kill.(Sorry warriors, you still are)
Funny how the tides have shifted and everyone is crying Nerfs cause they have to actually work to kill a Necro.
Welcome to the PvP forums. Where the flowing of tears… is limitless.

vicious.5683:

necromancers have CD’s too and they are very long.

and you shouldn’t be able to cleanse all conditions. It’s the way necros do damage. Why you should be able to negate all damage from a class? So you can kill them easy like you used to do before the patch?

Do you play (or care about) any classes other than necros? Most players speaking about conditions going out of hand are not anti-necros. They are the players who care for the general meta stability of the pvp in this game (like OP).

I am not attacking you, but I have seen some of your posts defending necros and I highly doubt you have been on the receiving end of the condition stick.

I agree that 1 necro might barely be on the OP side and that is fine. They should have their limelight (better them than thieves) but the way 2-3 aoe condition classes just destroy 5 people is stupid and anyone disagreeing to this is heavily biased or have not seen it.

I personally do not care, I will be making a necro soon and if the pvp meta does not get adjusted well then I will be on the upper end of the stick. 5v5 games with mirror teams of necro/necro/engi/mesmer/guardian should become a staple norm very soon if things are not hotfixed.

Legacy.7360:

Hi Paper….meet Scissors…
It basically boils down to: Know your class limits and know the enemy’s class limits. Reacting accordingly to counter the opponents. This method is the basics to ANY PvP scene. The reason for the out cry on Nero’s because they are no longer a free kill.(Sorry warriors, you still are)
Funny how the tides have shifted and everyone is crying Nerfs cause they have to actually work to kill a Necro.
Welcome to the PvP forums. Where the flowing of tears… is limitless.

No one is saying that necros should be a free kill. People are saying that 2-3 necros or necro/engi combinations should not load you with so many conditions that you literally just drop dead (irrespective of being a complete cleanse build or a non cleanse GC).

Referring to your own post about RPS balancing, shouldnt a cleanse heavy build at least have the upper hand against a condition build? Since a non cleanse build is going to get destroyed very fast.

Welcome to the PvP forums where unbiased judgement is in extremely short supply.

Necros aren’t out of hand, most times when I die is from a necro setting up someone else to combo me, by the necro fearing me while a dps class comes in and does all the damage. I’ve had no issues fighting a necro 1v1.

The thing is necros are using utilities people aren’t accustomed too, so they seem overpowered but in reality they aren’t people just need time to get used to them.

I’ve rarely seen necros use spectral wall but now it seems like a majority of them are rolling with it, nothing OP about it, just don’t run into it, and…. its very effective against thieves heartseeking.

Legacy.7360:

Hi Paper….meet Scissors…
It basically boils down to: Know your class limits and know the enemy’s class limits. Reacting accordingly to counter the opponents. This method is the basics to ANY PvP scene. The reason for the out cry on Nero’s because they are no longer a free kill.(Sorry warriors, you still are)
Funny how the tides have shifted and everyone is crying Nerfs cause they have to actually work to kill a Necro.
Welcome to the PvP forums. Where the flowing of tears… is limitless.

oh hi, meet the rock-paper scissor mentality that has ruined so many games by doing unjustly unbalanced classes where the out come of the fight was already determined before it even began! Where skills dont matter, where having scissor wins you the game unless the enemy brings a rock, and then the other one responds with paper!

Your post is bad and you should feel bad. Not only are you defending conditions in a very biased fashion, but you are renforcing the problem and your statement became completely null the moment you mentioned the words “crying” and “flowing of tears” due to you having the mentality of a 14 years old kid.

Conditions atm lack counterplay, period. Conditions and cleanses should have better counterplay, I shouldnt need to carry 3 utilities with cleansing skills, a heal with cleansing and traits just for cleansing. Toughness (a stat you have to sacrifice other stats to have) has absolutely no say, limiting even more the counterplays, leaving you at; either you are a high-medium HP target (warriors, necro, ranger, mesmer) or you freaking get vitality as well as toughness! (eles, guardians, thief)

Once again, rock-paper-scissor is not a game of this-beats-that, its a game of reflexes, of reading the opponents decisions, of anticipating, of luck, of chance, of psychology. The game is fun because of that. But what fun is it if I have a health problem in which my hand can only be closed, and before we count to three I put my fist on rock only to have you come with paper after you can see it for a whole 3 seconds?

I don’t see it changing any time soon. It will hurt PvE content to much. Mean time one can adjust.

My only suggestion to Anet is bring every class HP level up 15-20% in PvP.

To the previous post above me. You QQ and “14 year old” remarks is golden. Keep up the QQing… cause as we already know. It certainly is LIMITLESS.

Condi necros still win against very heavy condition clearing builds. Do you understand how broken it gets if you don’t play those builds?

stof.9341:

Condi necros still win against very heavy condition clearing builds. Do you understand how broken it gets if you don’t play those builds?

This is exactly the point I was making to legacy.

If I run a condition build and face a burst build with average condition clearing, it should be a fair fight.

If I run a condition build and face a burst build with specialized condition clearing, he should have an advantage.

That is just not how its working right now when necros and engis pair up at points and rain aoe conditions.

The worse in all that is that the Necro is also a 1200 range AoE class for the most part. There’s no way to justify such a high damage potential on that form.

If you cleanse the necro’s intitial burst then focus them down. They die really fast. Use stability to prevent chain fear and bait out corrupt boon if they have it. The current condi necro has no defense, very poor lifeforce generation and limited high cooldown condi transfers (Basically they can be killed just as fast with conditions or burst) and still have no escapes.

spoj.9672:

If you cleanse the necro’s intitial burst then focus them down. They die really fast. Use stability to prevent chain fear and bait out corrupt boon if they have it. The current condi necro has no defense, very poor lifeforce generation and limited high cooldown condi transfers (Basically they can be killed just as fast with conditions or burst) and still have no escapes.

^
No defense?
They can kill you before you attack. Thats the best defense ever. They can burst you from 100-0 as soon as the fight starts in 3-4 seconds with conditions and stability dont free you from snares.
If you clean their initial burst they can aply other conditions, snares to you while their combo recharge.

silentnight warrior.2714:

spoj.9672:

If you cleanse the necro’s intitial burst then focus them down. They die really fast. Use stability to prevent chain fear and bait out corrupt boon if they have it. The current condi necro has no defense, very poor lifeforce generation and limited high cooldown condi transfers (Basically they can be killed just as fast with conditions or burst) and still have no escapes.

^
No defense?
They can kill you before you attack. Thats the best defense ever. They can burst you from 100-0 as soon as the fight starts in 3-4 seconds with conditions and stability dont free you from snares.
If you clean their initial burst they can aply other conditions, snares to you while their combo recharge.

They have 2 snares….. 1 on a 15 sec cd, and another one on a 10+ sec cd. The scepter 2 one actually takes time to cast.

And they won’t burst you down in 3-4 seconds. That’s sheer hyperbole. If you hit the whole host of conditions then you didn’t use your dodges, and you sure as hell didn’t bring stun breakers/stability/condition clear.

Methinks you’re the kind of guy that got hit by 2 necros or anecro and another condi class, and suddenly you think all that damage is the necro’s doing. Plus, if you let any class turret damage like that, you’ll die as well. Try sitting still on a point while a staff ele lets loose on it.

Legacy.7360:

I don’t see it changing any time soon. It will hurt PvE content to much. Mean time one can adjust.

In GW2’s pve, everything that is not power/ critical/ critical damage zerker builds suck. That’s a problem with pve and its terrible mechanics, like defiance that completely destroys control builds, condition caps that nearly destroy condition builds, dumb AI and lack of teamplay that makes party support builds nearly pointless, etc. PvE is all about equipping zerker gear and dodging slow, instant-kill attacks.

Conditions, cleansing and even boons should be more strategical – where a player creates an effect, and the other must improvize around it. Instead, we get effects’ spamfests, where combat is mostly about filling your UI with small icons and destroying you or making you nearly immortal, unless you spam condition cleanses or boon removal. GW2’s combat was already like that before the patch, but now it turned a complete caricature of its recent past. Current meta definitely needs to be toned down, but something tells me that, even if that is to happen, condition and boon builds will still remain big spamfests.

Necros still have no survivability except for two health bars, and will crumble when focused. Their conditions, alone, don’t scare or even kill you if you know what you’re doing.

I think they went a bit oddly about making the necro viable, I would have expected a buff on survivability rather than an increase to their damage/control. Right now they are almost like the sapper class rather than the attrition class they were/are meant to be but that may just be because builds are still forming and the class has been in the past almost entirely unused competitively.

Still, I think the AoE condi cooldowns could use a bit of tweaking to be longer. Makes them a bit more of a “wise choice to use” rather than “blanket the field every opportunity”.

Legacy.7360:

I don’t see it changing any time soon. It will hurt PvE content to much. Mean time one can adjust.

My only suggestion to Anet is bring every class HP level up 15-20% in PvP.

To the previous post above me. You QQ and “14 year old” remarks is golden. Keep up the QQing… cause as we already know. It certainly is LIMITLESS.

yah by now i realize its pointless to have a “civilized” talk with you when all you behave now not even like a 10 years old.

anyways
@topic:

I dont care about PvE, Anet definitely doesnt care about PvE/PvP differentiation, so why should I? Why should I suffer from conditons affecting PvE option when my RoTL got nerfed because it was too strong in PvP? Yes condititions deserve the same treatment then. I will go even further; condition already scks in PvE, CC already sucks in PE, all yo need is damage, anything that deviates from that is counterproductive.

COnditions need to be toned down, period. Either the way they work, duration, or the low CD on many of them.

These posts who are complaining like a baby who lost their bottle.

My gawd people. Necro’s can be killed and so easily cc to death. Stop the bickering already… it’s obvious those who complain in this matter are NOT PvP orientated.

STICK WITH PVE. You’re Welcome.

It’s not necros that are the problem but rather the non-stop condition spam that does way too much damage.

I’m not even sure how the numbers in the screenshot below were achieved (opponent was a necro) but it ate through my heal + deathshroud + plague form quickly. Bleed ticks for ~ 191.7 per stack (= 4.8k dps for 25 stacks), burn ticks for 754 per second, 250/second poison, 125/stack per second torment.

There’s something fishy going on… possibly an exploit?

Burning formula is:
(0.25 * Condition Damage) + (4 * Level) + 8 damage per second http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning

So with some basic math we can see that to tick for 754 (13572/18) burning you’d need…

(754 – (4 * Level) – 8 damage per second) / 0.25 = 1704 condition damage

Bleed formula is:

(0.05 * Condition Damage) + 42.5 per stack per second at level 80 http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bleeding

So to get a 191.7 bleed tick (29333/153) you’d need:

(191.7 – 42.5) / 0.05 = Condition Damage = 2984 condition damage.

According to the burning ticks, he only had 1704 condition damage.. yet bleed wakittenting as if he had more than 2x that condition damage.

Either the damage report is bugged or there’s some sort of exploit that allows such massive bleed damage.

Edit: Note that the screenshot is of damage PER PLAYER, so that big damage was coming from a single source.

Demon.5082:

vicious.5683:

necromancers have CD’s too and they are very long.

and you shouldn’t be able to cleanse all conditions. It’s the way necros do damage. Why you should be able to negate all damage from a class? So you can kill them easy like you used to do before the patch?

Do you play (or care about) any classes other than necros? Most players speaking about conditions going out of hand are not anti-necros. They are the players who care for the general meta stability of the pvp in this game (like OP).

I am not attacking you, but I have seen some of your posts defending necros and I highly doubt you have been on the receiving end of the condition stick.

I agree that 1 necro might barely be on the OP side and that is fine. They should have their limelight (better them than thieves) but the way 2-3 aoe condition classes just destroy 5 people is stupid and anyone disagreeing to this is heavily biased or have not seen it.

I personally do not care, I will be making a necro soon and if the pvp meta does not get adjusted well then I will be on the upper end of the stick. 5v5 games with mirror teams of necro/necro/engi/mesmer/guardian should become a staple norm very soon if things are not hotfixed.

but the way 2-3 aoe condition classes just destroy 5 people is stupid and anyone disagreeing to this is heavily biased or have not seen it

Yes, I didnt see it! But it is not stupid, it is stupid to that 5 ppl are standing on 1 point, so necros can AoE all of them at once. This leads only for one thing – YOU NEVER FACED A NECRO BEFORE!!!! Most of necros were running with Corruption Boon and epidemic, so if you 5 players standen near guardian they all became heavy condis!

Do you play (or care about) any classes other than necros? Most players speaking about conditions going out of hand are not anti-necros. They are the players who care for the general meta stability of the pvp in this game (like OP).

I didnt hear you when Ele was unkillable?! or Thief ?! or Mesmer ?! or Ranger?! mb because you played this classes? or mb because you didnt care for OP? I play main necro since release and care about Meta and Balance overall, but if even Meta was change in this times so often i cant even remember! So I dont see any hard that it will be changed once again. Otherwise your barin will get fat xD (no offense).

Necro ALWAYS was and is the first target (before it was because of condi and rez, now only because of condis). Thief is able to burst necro down in no time and has much better mobility, so why wont you take in you team some tief with expirience and not some hot join guys ?!

Like I said in other post: Necro has is bad on mobility and survavobility – use it against teams with necros.

Here’s another screenshot of the crazy bleed damage, but this time from a ranger. Are bleeds bugged or is this a display error? It once again chewed through plague form (42k hp in plague form)

Bleed damage like that is not supposed to be possible, even with 25 stacks of might. Would be nice to get an official response at some point. If it’s a display error, please fix it.

Kharr.5746:

Here’s another screenshot of the crazy bleed damage, but this time from a ranger. Are bleeds bugged or is this a display error? It once again chewed through plague form (42k hp in plague form)

Bleed damage like that is not supposed to be possible, even with 25 stacks of might. Would be nice to get an official response at some point. If it’s a display error, please fix it.

Is this a joke ?? you got 158 tickes and it is pretty normal dmg.

Kharr.5746:

Here’s another screenshot of the crazy bleed damage, but this time from a ranger. Are bleeds bugged or is this a display error? It once again chewed through plague form (42k hp in plague form)

Bleed damage like that is not supposed to be possible, even with 25 stacks of might. Would be nice to get an official response at some point. If it’s a display error, please fix it.

I like to think that 1 tick of 25 stacks of bleeding like a liter of blood just gushing out of you. People in Tyria must have untold gallons of blood in them. Almost reminds me of a Japanese film.

emon.1863:

Kharr.5746:

Here’s another screenshot of the crazy bleed damage, but this time from a ranger. Are bleeds bugged or is this a display error? It once again chewed through plague form (42k hp in plague form)

Bleed damage like that is not supposed to be possible, even with 25 stacks of might. Would be nice to get an official response at some point. If it’s a display error, please fix it.

Is this a joke ?? you got 158 tickes and it is pretty normal dmg.

Bleed formula is:
(0.05 * Condition Damage) + 42.5 per stack per second at level 80 http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bleeding

So to get a 174.64 bleed tick (27594/158) you’d need:
(174.64 – 42.5) / 0.05 = Condition Damage = 2642 condition damage.

Please explain to me how you get 2642 condition damage from the PVP gear + boons. I would like to replicate it.

Edit: While you’re at it, also explain how the necro in the above screenshot achieved 2800+ condition damage from his gear + boons and why it doesn’t match up with the condition damage his burns reflect. This is either a display bug or bleed is broken.

emon.1863:

Demon.5082:

vicious.5683:

necromancers have CD’s too and they are very long.

and you shouldn’t be able to cleanse all conditions. It’s the way necros do damage. Why you should be able to negate all damage from a class? So you can kill them easy like you used to do before the patch?

Do you play (or care about) any classes other than necros? Most players speaking about conditions going out of hand are not anti-necros. They are the players who care for the general meta stability of the pvp in this game (like OP).

I am not attacking you, but I have seen some of your posts defending necros and I highly doubt you have been on the receiving end of the condition stick.

I agree that 1 necro might barely be on the OP side and that is fine. They should have their limelight (better them than thieves) but the way 2-3 aoe condition classes just destroy 5 people is stupid and anyone disagreeing to this is heavily biased or have not seen it.

I personally do not care, I will be making a necro soon and if the pvp meta does not get adjusted well then I will be on the upper end of the stick. 5v5 games with mirror teams of necro/necro/engi/mesmer/guardian should become a staple norm very soon if things are not hotfixed.

but the way 2-3 aoe condition classes just destroy 5 people is stupid and anyone disagreeing to this is heavily biased or have not seen it

Yes, I didnt see it! But it is not stupid, it is stupid to that 5 ppl are standing on 1 point, so necros can AoE all of them at once. This leads only for one thing – YOU NEVER FACED A NECRO BEFORE!!!! Most of necros were running with Corruption Boon and epidemic, so if you 5 players standen near guardian they all became heavy condis!

Do you play (or care about) any classes other than necros? Most players speaking about conditions going out of hand are not anti-necros. They are the players who care for the general meta stability of the pvp in this game (like OP).

I didnt hear you when Ele was unkillable?! or Thief ?! or Mesmer ?! or Ranger?! mb because you played this classes? or mb because you didnt care for OP? I play main necro since release and care about Meta and Balance overall, but if even Meta was change in this times so often i cant even remember! So I dont see any hard that it will be changed once again. Otherwise your barin will get fat xD (no offense).

Necro ALWAYS was and is the first target (before it was because of condi and rez, now only because of condis). Thief is able to burst necro down in no time and has much better mobility, so why wont you take in you team some tief with expirience and not some hot join guys ?!

Like I said in other post: Necro has is bad on mobility and survavobility – use it against teams with necros.

If you look at my posts, you will know that even though I have a mesmer, I totally approve of the nerfs this patch and also agree to phantasm specs getting nerfed more since its an AI spec.

I cant comment for thieves because I do not play one and I have not had issues of this magnitude from a single thief in team fights (they usually die when they open from stealth).

Your argument is why people are standing together? Seriously? In a game where point capping is all that matters and area of effects area the heavy meta because of this, your genius solution is “Do not stand together!”. I am sure the top tier tpvpers would like more advice from you.

As for getting a thief to take out the necro, these things work in spvp but are much harder in tpvp when multi necros/hgh engis are stacked and spamming condis. That thief will die in a single fear.

Kharr.5746:

emon.1863:

Kharr.5746:

Here’s another screenshot of the crazy bleed damage, but this time from a ranger. Are bleeds bugged or is this a display error? It once again chewed through plague form (42k hp in plague form)

Bleed damage like that is not supposed to be possible, even with 25 stacks of might. Would be nice to get an official response at some point. If it’s a display error, please fix it.

Is this a joke ?? you got 158 tickes and it is pretty normal dmg.

Bleed formula is:
(0.05 * Condition Damage) + 42.5 per stack per second at level 80 http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bleeding

So to get a 174.64 bleed tick (27594/158) you’d need:
(174.64 – 42.5) / 0.05 = Condition Damage = 2642 condition damage.

Please explain to me how you get 2642 condition damage from the PVP gear + boons. I would like to replicate it.

Edit: While you’re at it, also explain how the necro in the above screenshot achieved 2800+ condition damage from his gear + boons and why it doesn’t match up with the condition damage his burns reflect. This is either a display bug or bleed is broken.

Have no idea what did you calculate there , but it seems wrong, since you didnt check’d time.you dont need 2k condition dmg, you need dumb opponent, who is ignoring bleeding at all. for example blood is power will put 42 sec of bleeding + grand necro might + other bleeds necro is thrown on target.

Demon.5082:

emon.1863:

Demon.5082:

vicious.5683:

necromancers have CD’s too and they are very long.

and you shouldn’t be able to cleanse all conditions. It’s the way necros do damage. Why you should be able to negate all damage from a class? So you can kill them easy like you used to do before the patch?

Do you play (or care about) any classes other than necros? Most players speaking about conditions going out of hand are not anti-necros. They are the players who care for the general meta stability of the pvp in this game (like OP).

I am not attacking you, but I have seen some of your posts defending necros and I highly doubt you have been on the receiving end of the condition stick.

I agree that 1 necro might barely be on the OP side and that is fine. They should have their limelight (better them than thieves) but the way 2-3 aoe condition classes just destroy 5 people is stupid and anyone disagreeing to this is heavily biased or have not seen it.

I personally do not care, I will be making a necro soon and if the pvp meta does not get adjusted well then I will be on the upper end of the stick. 5v5 games with mirror teams of necro/necro/engi/mesmer/guardian should become a staple norm very soon if things are not hotfixed.

but the way 2-3 aoe condition classes just destroy 5 people is stupid and anyone disagreeing to this is heavily biased or have not seen it

Yes, I didnt see it! But it is not stupid, it is stupid to that 5 ppl are standing on 1 point, so necros can AoE all of them at once. This leads only for one thing – YOU NEVER FACED A NECRO BEFORE!!!! Most of necros were running with Corruption Boon and epidemic, so if you 5 players standen near guardian they all became heavy condis!

Do you play (or care about) any classes other than necros? Most players speaking about conditions going out of hand are not anti-necros. They are the players who care for the general meta stability of the pvp in this game (like OP).

I didnt hear you when Ele was unkillable?! or Thief ?! or Mesmer ?! or Ranger?! mb because you played this classes? or mb because you didnt care for OP? I play main necro since release and care about Meta and Balance overall, but if even Meta was change in this times so often i cant even remember! So I dont see any hard that it will be changed once again. Otherwise your barin will get fat xD (no offense).

Necro ALWAYS was and is the first target (before it was because of condi and rez, now only because of condis). Thief is able to burst necro down in no time and has much better mobility, so why wont you take in you team some tief with expirience and not some hot join guys ?!

Like I said in other post: Necro has is bad on mobility and survavobility – use it against teams with necros.

If you look at my posts, you will know that even though I have a mesmer, I totally approve of the nerfs this patch and also agree to phantasm specs getting nerfed more since its an AI spec.

I cant comment for thieves because I do not play one and I have not had issues of this magnitude from a single thief in team fights (they usually die when they open from stealth).

Your argument is why people are standing together? Seriously? In a game where point capping is all that matters and area of effects area the heavy meta because of this, your genius solution is “Do not stand together!”. I am sure the top tier tpvpers would like more advice from you.

As for getting a thief to take out the necro, these things work in spvp but are much harder in tpvp when multi necros/hgh engis are stacked and spamming condis. That thief will die in a single fear.

If 5 players are standing on point, even pre patch necro would bring them all down with wells – so plz, all you do is qq. Thief who is killing necro is not working in tPvP ? You can put 2 classes in 1 team (or more) and other teams will having problems with it (if you are playing correctly). multi necro teams did well pre patch as well, so there is no changes.
And once again : FEAR WITHOUT CONDIS IS VERY VERY LOW DMG!

TBH if you are running full glass (11k hp on an ele) then you shouldn’t be able to handle sustained pressure from multiple players, regardless of if it was condi damage or not.

emon.1863:

Demon.5082:

emon.1863:

Demon.5082:

vicious.5683:

necromancers have CD’s too and they are very long.

and you shouldn’t be able to cleanse all conditions. It’s the way necros do damage. Why you should be able to negate all damage from a class? So you can kill them easy like you used to do before the patch?

Do you play (or care about) any classes other than necros? Most players speaking about conditions going out of hand are not anti-necros. They are the players who care for the general meta stability of the pvp in this game (like OP).

I am not attacking you, but I have seen some of your posts defending necros and I highly doubt you have been on the receiving end of the condition stick.

I agree that 1 necro might barely be on the OP side and that is fine. They should have their limelight (better them than thieves) but the way 2-3 aoe condition classes just destroy 5 people is stupid and anyone disagreeing to this is heavily biased or have not seen it.

I personally do not care, I will be making a necro soon and if the pvp meta does not get adjusted well then I will be on the upper end of the stick. 5v5 games with mirror teams of necro/necro/engi/mesmer/guardian should become a staple norm very soon if things are not hotfixed.

but the way 2-3 aoe condition classes just destroy 5 people is stupid and anyone disagreeing to this is heavily biased or have not seen it

Yes, I didnt see it! But it is not stupid, it is stupid to that 5 ppl are standing on 1 point, so necros can AoE all of them at once. This leads only for one thing – YOU NEVER FACED A NECRO BEFORE!!!! Most of necros were running with Corruption Boon and epidemic, so if you 5 players standen near guardian they all became heavy condis!

Do you play (or care about) any classes other than necros? Most players speaking about conditions going out of hand are not anti-necros. They are the players who care for the general meta stability of the pvp in this game (like OP).

I didnt hear you when Ele was unkillable?! or Thief ?! or Mesmer ?! or Ranger?! mb because you played this classes? or mb because you didnt care for OP? I play main necro since release and care about Meta and Balance overall, but if even Meta was change in this times so often i cant even remember! So I dont see any hard that it will be changed once again. Otherwise your barin will get fat xD (no offense).

Necro ALWAYS was and is the first target (before it was because of condi and rez, now only because of condis). Thief is able to burst necro down in no time and has much better mobility, so why wont you take in you team some tief with expirience and not some hot join guys ?!

Like I said in other post: Necro has is bad on mobility and survavobility – use it against teams with necros.

If you look at my posts, you will know that even though I have a mesmer, I totally approve of the nerfs this patch and also agree to phantasm specs getting nerfed more since its an AI spec.

I cant comment for thieves because I do not play one and I have not had issues of this magnitude from a single thief in team fights (they usually die when they open from stealth).

Your argument is why people are standing together? Seriously? In a game where point capping is all that matters and area of effects area the heavy meta because of this, your genius solution is “Do not stand together!”. I am sure the top tier tpvpers would like more advice from you.

As for getting a thief to take out the necro, these things work in spvp but are much harder in tpvp when multi necros/hgh engis are stacked and spamming condis. That thief will die in a single fear.

If 5 players are standing on point, even pre patch necro would bring them all down with wells – so plz, all you do is qq. Thief who is killing necro is not working in tPvP ? You can put 2 classes in 1 team (or more) and other teams will having problems with it (if you are playing correctly). multi necro teams did well pre patch as well, so there is no changes.
And once again : FEAR WITHOUT CONDIS IS VERY VERY LOW DMG!

Yes with “WELLS” plural. Staff marks and multiple wells are fine. Right now its going on with 1 epidemic or fear. There is no point having a discussion with someone like you who takes criticism as “QQ” so to speak.
Necros did not need the buff they got, they needed survivability. I know this, you know this and most good necros know this.

papaganoosh.7908:

TBH if you are running full glass (11k hp on an ele) then you shouldn’t be able to handle sustained pressure from multiple players, regardless of if it was condi damage or not.

If you are running a 11k hp build with ele, you wont last a second after your defensive utilities are on cooldown. :-/

anet going on the opposite side for nerfing…we need to reduce AOE and he put in game a new condition…..embarassing

Demon.5082:

If you are running a 11k hp build with ele, you wont last a second after your defensive utilities are on cooldown. :-/

I am just sick of all complaining of forum. YES Necros (me included) wanted survavobility and mobility buff, since we didnt get that (I think anet want keep necro slow, so they needed another thing to buff) I am fine with more dmg. For me it make sens, if I am slow and easy dying class – I have to make huge DPS.

If you want to put glass cannon vs glass cannon ( i asume 11k hp ele is in glass cannon).
Necro shoul win, but in this case ele is better mobile and can support team much better (with combos that doesnt have at all).
Also sry for bad english )

I will only say this..

firebreathz.7692:

I will only say this..

your point is ?

then why don’t you play necro? or just the one you enjoy is it that big deal. The game have no trinity so there is always going to be a best build deal with it.

It is not necros OP, warriors UP, it is the whole boon/condition system that sux. I just died from 2 marks and 2 warriors condi arrows, the lingering conditions got me from 100% to 0%, litterally. My heal was on CD and I have around 21 500 max hp.

timecookie.8570:

It is not necros OP, warriors UP, it is the whole boon/condition system that sux. I just died from 2 marks and 2 warriors condi arrows, the lingering conditions got me from 100% to 0%, litterally. My heal was on CD and I have around 21 500 max hp.

Seems that you run into nasty marks – dodge them )

firebreathz.7692:

I will only say this..

LOL. So you’re saying because he got 520 points necros are overpowered? You’re using invalid points to say they are overpowered.

SURE, they are. But points don’t prove that. Hell, I can get 500 points on my warrior and look at them. It’s because some people know how to do well in the 8v8 matchups. It’s really not difficult at all.

Everyone that says Necro’s are balanced right now is just defending their class.
Solution = We all reroll to necro

emon.1863:

Demon.5082:

If you are running a 11k hp build with ele, you wont last a second after your defensive utilities are on cooldown. :-/

I am just sick of all complaining of forum. YES Necros (me included) wanted survavobility and mobility buff, since we didnt get that (I think anet want keep necro slow, so they needed another thing to buff) I am fine with more dmg. For me it make sens, if I am slow and easy dying class – I have to make huge DPS.

If you want to put glass cannon vs glass cannon ( i asume 11k hp ele is in glass cannon).
Necro shoul win, but in this case ele is better mobile and can support team much better (with combos that doesnt have at all).
Also sry for bad english )

A glass cannon ele wont win against anything really. I think its the worst glass cannon class in the game. Necro loads you with conditions and all that mobility means nothing as you just die even when your running. But I am getting off topic here.

The necro class is about conditions and cc so mobility has to be low to compensate (just like mesmers have a lot of distraction through clones and great utility but no mobility) but what I am saying is they should revert some of these damage buffs from the last patch and turn them into survivability. That is all.

tichorum.2415:

firebreathz.7692:

I will only say this..

LOL. So you’re saying because he got 520 points necros are overpowered? You’re using invalid points to say they are overpowered.

SURE, they are. But points don’t prove that. Hell, I can get 500 points on my warrior and look at them. It’s because some people know how to do well in the 8v8 matchups. It’s really not difficult at all.

I have to agree here. That screenshot cant really prove anything other than that guy just knows how to play (500 my god).

Hector.6950:

Everyone that says Necro’s are balanced right now is just defending their class.
Solution = We all reroll to necro

Heh, like I said before, if the meta of area conditions does not change soon, we will pretty much be seeing only necros/mesmers/guardian/engi in pvp lol.

Well, before the change, all we ever saw was mesmers/guardians/engi in pvp. The addition of one more class to that list means that a class was brought up above crap status. Now all ANet has to do is do the same for the other classes that are not on that list.