Guild Wars 2

And, yes I am talking about mesmers. People have been complaining about portal=nerfed, people have been complaining about might on shatters=nerfed, people have been complaining about quickness=nerf, people cried their eyes out about confusion in PvE=nerf

However.

Most (if not all) of these ‘changes’ were done on real numbers and facts, and even if they were not done in the most elegant way, the nerfs themselves were reasonable up to an extend.

For whoever’s sake you believe at, don’t and I mean DON’T think that crying about a certain skill/combo/trait etc. will bring about a nerf. It does not work that way, just makes people frustrated.

So, since I am talking about mesmers…. leave our blurred frenzy alone. You don’t see bazillions of mesmers running a sword build, guess why? Because even for the ‘OP’ blurred frenzy, it still lacks in many areas compared to, say, staff. AND it requires a good amount of skill to be used correctly. What, surprised that mesmers are actually a class that requires skill to kill you? More so than some other classes might I add.

Oh, and please can you notice the ‘great number’ of mesmer players in high-end pvp? In hotjoin, of course there are going to be many of them, just because the place is full of people that are not as good in pvp, so they get destroyed. But once you up the scale a little, the number of mesmers drops dramatically, just because it is not an OP class, as was expected by many.

In the recent months mesmer population has been decreasing nerf after nerf. If this carries on, you will have a mesmer-free game. Appealing? Let me rephrase it…. You will have a game that will be filled with other classes that you have to deal with! And some of them will be equally or more annoying than a mesmer.

But of course, any class that requires you to use your brains to fight it is OP…. I do have bad news for you.

Yes, this is a whine thread, and yes I play mesmer ankittenired of waiting for the patch notes to see what part of the profession got destroyed.

Just be reasonable at what you ask. There is always going to be a ‘strongest’ mesmer ability, be it a shatter, a fury-buffed phantasm, a team buff giving field or an invulnerability that also does damage (if the stars align that is)

And guess what? After that it’s going to be things like Phase retreat which do a whole grand of 0 damage and allows a clothie to escape. Who would have thought such an ability is needed?

Stop crying. It is useless.

Thank you. I’m not a Mesmer, but I’m freaking tired of all the complaints.
Mesmer is one of the harder class to play, and once you know how to play it well, it’s not like it’s better than others, just harder. It’s just like the others, but harder..

i dont agree, mesmer got some nerfs but he is still in top tier, maybe he could use some buffs to least used specs, because most mesmers are shatter or phantasm (not sure if in TPvP too), so a bit more diversity would be nice but this apply for most professions, especially ele imo…

OMGOMG Blurred Frenzy OP ARENANET

Anet: “Dont worry. It has been nerfed. Now, if you don’t hit an enemy with blurred frenzy CD is 40 seconds”

OMGOMGOMG NOW THIS OTHER CLASS STILL BEATS ME PLEASE NERF ARENANET

Rerroll.9083:

OMGOMG Blurred Frenzy OP ARENANET

Anet: “Dont worry. It has been nerfed. Now, if you don’t hit an enemy with blurred frenzy CD is 40 seconds”

OMGOMGOMG NOW THIS OTHER CLASS STILL BEATS ME PLEASE NERF ARENANET

That pretty much sums up the Ranger’s Pet situation as well

Invision, Ranger pets are blatantly overpowered. I use Ranger more often than most other classes lately because of the nonsensical Beastmaster and Trap-ranger builds.

Mesmers are less overpowered, but are in need of fixing. Blurred Frenzy is fine, infact I wish more skills with more classes were this fun to use. Phantasms are pretty bloody strong, though.

Invision.1307:

Rerroll.9083:

OMGOMG Blurred Frenzy OP ARENANET

Anet: “Dont worry. It has been nerfed. Now, if you don’t hit an enemy with blurred frenzy CD is 40 seconds”

OMGOMGOMG NOW THIS OTHER CLASS STILL BEATS ME PLEASE NERF ARENANET

That pretty much sums up the Ranger’s Pet situation as well

Actually ranger is worrying.

TheMightAltroll, a Ranger is doing great solo, especially in 1v1, but what does it really bring to a team fight? Of course the Pet it doing a lot of damage, but he’s also easy to flank and trick, and in a team fight, the ranger or it’s pet is not what I’m targeting first.

Hope you understand what I mean.

Invision.1307:

TheMightAltroll, a Ranger is doing great solo, especially in 1v1, but what does it really bring to a team fight? Of course the Pet it doing a lot of damage, but he’s also easy to flank and trick, and in a team fight, the ranger or it’s pet is not what I’m targeting first.

Hope you understand what I mean.

Are you kidding me? Trap ranger in a team fight? Useless? Bloody hell, we’re talking mass-AoE conditions on par with HGH Engineer.

Rangers are extraordinarily powerful, Drakes are strong in group fights despite not being used much, and Wolf CC is absolutely stupid. I’m a Necromancer and I have less fear than a pet.

I agree with the HGH Engineer. He’s the one I’m scared of (don’t want him nerfed), but couldn’t care less about the ranger. In a team fight, the pet gets killed pretty fast by the AoE, and the Ranger has to switch it back and forth (I’m not sure if you’ve played against decent teams, but this is a fact). The other condition that the Ranger applies, is often bleed, poison, vulnerability and cripple. Those can easily be cleansed, and their attacks can easily be dodged. The only skill I hate, is the AoE cripple (massive arrow spams on ground ^^). However, the AoE healing a ranger places on the ground, can be used very strategically, if you have a thief with short bow nearby. He can shoot cluster bombs on it, and it will give water heal (#5 on Elementalist). However, you don’t often see this being used.

You do not know anything about Ranger. Try playing Minionmancer, or Conditionmancer for 10 minutes. I dare you. I double dare you.

I stack more bleeds using a Sigil of Earth on Shortbow auto then I ever could with Scepter, in less time at that. Pets do not die fast at all, I’ve been able to keep a Hawk alive in 5v5 against 2 Elementalists AND an HGH Engineer. Invision, a Thief could Heartseeker through the bloody thing and grant AoE healing because it’s an incredibly dumb combo field, far more effective than Staff Ele’s water tree.

And if you still doubt Ranger’s effectiveness in group play, I have one word for you: Root.

But you know…we have clones so we definately deserve more nerfs…

/sarcasm

Archaon.6245:

But you know…we have clones so we definately deserve more nerfs…

/sarcasm

How does that qualify as Sarcasm… or even as funny?

But you can walk out/dodge the root. I’ve done it. Also just one necro with minions and the root is wasted. I don’t think that 1 skill makes a class group friendly. I’ve also played against teams with good aoe and the pet dies really fast.

On the topic – i don’t think mesmer should be nerfed. It’s not like he can move while using blurred frenzy.

I actually see many ppl complain bout portal…you know what? I would be REALLY happy if i didn’t have to bring it instead of something else…give portal to someone else too, like engis or something, totally fine with that..since if you play mesmer you basically run with 2 utility skills and no elitè cause you must already bring portal and time warp for your team…and maybe illusion of life too…easy to play with only 1 max 2 utilities for you? (In a 1vs1 side point defending situation for example) Give it a try..see what happens…tpvp is not hotjoin where you can run with phantasm, uber shatter, moa and kitten with all self oriented utilities…sometimes you can’t even manage to put out a decent shatter because you already dropped mirror images and even decoy (Since many prefer to run with blink as the only utility skill if already using illusion of life)…everything looks easy from outside/hotzerg point of view..

Chicho Gosho.6507:

But you can walk out/dodge the root. I’ve done it. Also just one necro with minions and the root is wasted. I don’t think that 1 skill makes a class group friendly. I’ve also played against teams with good aoe and the pet dies really fast.

On the topic – i don’t think mesmer should be nerfed. It’s not like he can move while using blurred frenzy.

One Necro with Minions and the root is wasted… how is it wasted? You just killed all of my Minions.

These ignorangers are very annoying. It’s like I know more about their class than they do… (Considering I play Ranger more than most classes)

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

You do not know anything about Ranger. Try playing Minionmancer, or Conditionmancer for 10 minutes. I dare you. I double dare you.

In this case, I bet you’re talking about a 1v1 duel with Minionmancer and Ranger? Did I ever say anything bad a bout a solo Ranger?

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I stack more bleeds using a Sigil of Earth on Shortbow auto then I ever could with Scepter, in less time at that.

This is easy to cleanse (most healing spells cleanse these).

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Pets do not die fast at all, I’ve been able to keep a Hawk alive in 5v5 against 2 Elementalists AND an HGH Engineer.

I’m guessing those players were really bad. Also, I bet this never happened, just an example you throw at me, but pretend to be true. Not that I’m denying it, but it seems like a stupid lie you’re throwing at me.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Invision, a Thief could Heartseeker through the bloody thing and grant AoE healing because it’s an incredibly dumb combo field, far more effective than Staff Ele’s water tree.

Let’s say there’s a team fight at Keep on FoN, and the ranger has the combo field on the point. Then a thief could go stay behind Keep (on the hill) and shoot cluster bombs (#2) on it, which he has tons of, and grant healing to all nearby allies.
P.S: I said this earlier, in last post, and stated that it was great, so I don’t understand why you point this out.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

And if you still doubt Ranger’s effectiveness in group play, I have one word for you: Root.

This is very easy to escape (by dodging or killing it with AoE), which means it’s not a good immobilize. If you’re a thief, it’s even easier, as you can just use any teleport skill, not just stun-break teleport skills.

-Invision.

I am not going to argue about if some Mesmer skills need a nerf since there are several other threads for that out there but here is why you mainly see nerfs:

You can balance a game in 2 different ways.

• Buff everything so they are on the same level (awesome but takes a lot of time/money since you need to buff every other “non OP” build)
• Nerf everything so they are on the same level (not awesome but it works and takes less time/money since you only need to nerf the “OP” builds)

A good example for that would be the D/D bunker ele. Instead of nerfing it every single month (with some weird nerf decisions btw) they could have buffed everything on the same level. Won’t happen though since it takes a lot of time/money.

Another good example would be the Engineer. Even though I don’t play an Engineer I still know they are being nerfed on a regular basis as well. New “OP” build, new nerf. Why would you nerf those builds in the first place? Well, it takes less money/time to do that.

There are a lot of examples for those nerfs but in the end that’s how Anet wants to balance their game. That’s also the reason why we only see what you call “Nerf, Nerf, Nerf, Nerf”. It’s just the way balancing works for this game.

Invision.1307:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

You do not know anything about Ranger. Try playing Minionmancer, or Conditionmancer for 10 minutes. I dare you. I double dare you.

In this case, I bet you’re talking about a 1v1 duel with Minionmancer and Ranger? Did I ever say anything bad a bout a solo Ranger?

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I stack more bleeds using a Sigil of Earth on Shortbow auto then I ever could with Scepter, in less time at that.

This is easy to cleanse (most healing spells cleanse these).

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Pets do not die fast at all, I’ve been able to keep a Hawk alive in 5v5 against 2 Elementalists AND an HGH Engineer.

I’m guessing those players were really bad. Also, I bet this never happened, just an example you throw at me, but pretend to be true. Not that I’m denying it, but it seems like a stupid lie you’re throwing at me.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Invision, a Thief could Heartseeker through the bloody thing and grant AoE healing because it’s an incredibly dumb combo field, far more effective than Staff Ele’s water tree.

Let’s say there’s a team fight at Keep on FoN, and the ranger has the combo field on the point. Then a thief could go stay behind Keep (on the hill) and shoot cluster bombs (#2) on it, which he has tons of, and grant healing to all nearby allies.
P.S: I said this earlier, in last post, and stated that it was great, so I don’t understand why you point this out.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

And if you still doubt Ranger’s effectiveness in group play, I have one word for you: Root.

This is very easy to escape (by dodging or killing it with AoE), which means it’s not a good immobilize. If you’re a thief, it’s even easier, as you can just use any teleport skill, not just stun-break teleport skills.

-Invision.

You really know nothing of other classes. No, I was talking about group play. Minionmancers are incredibly bad in group fights, their Minions will die in seconds compared to Ranger, and are MUCH harder to recover.

Yes, Bleeds may be easy to cleanse, but rangers have massive access to it, Necromancers do not. That’s also a very dumb argument, I might add. “Most healing skills cleanse these”

Troll Ungent is really overpowered when used properly, you know? Just because you can’t figure out how to allow your pet to survive, or how to make Thief last and not be ‘glassy’ shouldn’t mean that I lack the capability.

Root is not ‘easy’ to escape, it requires physically mashing in order to escape, which is a MASSIVE CC! In group fights that’s atleast 1-4 seconds of immobilize, or worse! Have you ever played a condition Necromancer? We have a glitch sometimes where we have to literally manually target the root, and autoattack it to escape. That’s 180 damage to the root per auto-attack. If you’ve ever been outside of your Ignorangerance to see how slow a Necro uses Staff/Scepter, then you’d realize that by the time the Necro escapes, he’s already dead. If you want to escape root faster, then you have to use a Cleanse, THEN a dodge. Which is still a huge advantage, because you’re forcing your opponent to waste something just to live in the first 3 seconds of a skill.

Oh, and Root is essentially an auto-kill for all pets and AI.

Minionmancers can be good for tanking a point at the same times as dealing lots of conditions (different types, which makes it harder to cleanse). They have multiple minions, which means it takes longer to kill than it does with just one minion. If I’m downed by a Ranger, and he leaves me with his pet, I can easily kill it, but if I’m downed by a Necromancer, and he leaves his minions on me, I can’t do kitten. So no, the Ranger’s pet isn’t much better than the Necromancer’s minions when it comes to survivability.
It’s not a bout me not knowing how to make a thief last. I barely ever die in a tournament, and I’m 100% glass cannon. I was talking about blinding on stealth (which is a trait) and cleansing every 3 seconds while in stealth (another trait). If you’re using these, you have to skip two other traits, like for example +7% crit chance from side or behind etc.. No thanks.
Root is incredibly easy to escape as long as you have a Stun Breaker, and even easier for classes such as thieves, cause they can use their #5 skill on short bow (Infiltrator’s Arrow) to just teleport out of it.
In a team fight where Root as been used, the overall AoE will kill the roots fast, and a high-ranked team always got Stun Breaks to use. And besides, if they have a thief or mesmer who’s escaped it, since it’s easy, they can protect the other teammates during this immobilize. Therefore, not SO KITTENS MASSIVE!

It seems like you’ve played the classes a lot, but never in tournaments, only hot joins.
Is this true?

Invision.1307:

Minionmancers can be good for tanking a point at the same times as dealing lots of conditions (different types, which makes it harder to cleanse). They have multiple minions, which means it takes longer to kill than it does with just one minion. If I’m downed by a Ranger, and he leaves me with his pet, I can easily kill it, but if I’m downed by a Necromancer, and he leaves his minions on me, I can’t do kitten. So no, the Ranger’s pet isn’t much better than the Necromancer’s minions when it comes to survivability.
It’s not a bout me not knowing how to make a thief last. I barely ever die in a tournament, and I’m 100% glass cannon. I was talking about blinding on stealth (which is a trait) and cleansing every 3 seconds while in stealth (another trait). If you’re using these, you have to skip two other traits, like for example +7% crit chance from side or behind etc.. No thanks.
Root is incredibly easy to escape as long as you have a Stun Breaker, and even easier for classes such as thieves, cause they can use their #5 skill on short bow (Infiltrator’s Arrow) to just teleport out of it.
In a team fight where Root as been used, the overall AoE will kill the roots fast, and a high-ranked team always got Stun Breaks to use. And besides, if they have a thief or mesmer who’s escaped it, since it’s easy, they can protect the other teammates during this immobilize. Therefore, not SO KITTENS MASSIVE!

It seems like you’ve played the classes a lot, but never in tournaments, only hot joins.
Is this true?

Sacrificing 2 traits from a Thief does not nerf damage to the point of being ineffective. Berserker’s gear will make up for it, and you’ll still do more damage than any other class specced for it, while still having more survivability.

Root is not removed immediately from an AoE. I’ve never seen Root used and people escape it without wasting skills anywhere under 3 seconds. That’s a 3 second CC, and a strong one at that. It’s an kill button for any NPCs as well. Hell, it’s a kill button for most Downed players.

You do not know Necromancer at all. At all. If you did you would realize that your argument is completely false. Minions cannot stray too far from the Necromancer anymore, so no, he can’t just leave them on you. Minions are far weaker than Pets. A smart Ranger can increase his pet’s life span considerably, even in group play, by utilizing the basic commands. Which a Necromancer doesn’t have.

I play Ranger extremely effectively, and have none of the problems you describe, that’s a l2p problem for you. I’m done arguing with you until you actually learn the game.

you almost got the answer, but you got side tracked defending your class. Keep looking at the problem and you will realise why its all a bit stupid when it comes to balance.

Hotjoin vs Tpvp vs PVE vs WvWvW

As for the nerf cries, well go into hotjoin and see the mess it is. But on the same hand, Mesmers are less often seen in tpvp so something is going wrong. Then add in that mesmers USED to be so abundant on account of everyone loving portal, now thats lots its shine mesmer numbers are falling.

See, even in PVP the tale of one class is one of being underpowered and overpowered, and both camps are correct.

The problem is the PVP system is pretty ramshackle at the moment, hopefully in time that can be resolved and balancing will slow down and the classes will start to settle.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Sacrificing 2 traits from a Thief does not nerf damage to the point of being ineffective. Berserker’s gear will make up for it, and you’ll still do more damage than any other class specced for it, while still having more survivability.

Let’s say I’m running 25/30/0/0/15, which is the most glassy build, and I’ll sacrifice some traits to get “Blind on stealth” and “Remove a condition every 3 seconds in stealth”, I will have to remove 20 trait points in a trait-tree, which means I for example have to build it like 25/10/20/0/15.
This means that I’m cutting lose my grandmaster trait in critical strikes which would have given me a 100% crit chance when in stealth, or +20% when enemy is lower than 50% health..
How is this not a huge nerf to my burst?

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Root is not removed immediately from an AoE. I’ve never seen Root used and people escape it without wasting skills anywhere under 3 seconds. That’s a 3 second CC, and a strong one at that. It’s an kill button for any NPCs as well. Hell, it’s a kill button for most Downed players.

When talking about this previously, I mentioned thieves and mesmers as the main classes that can escape this. Thieves only have to spend half a second to escape, even without stun breaker, which you don’t seem to understand, cause you’ve never seen a good thief in the root.
Yes, the pets and minions can easily be killed when they are rooted, but that doesn’t change the team fight..

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

You do not know Necromancer at all. At all. If you did you would realize that your argument is completely false. Minions cannot stray too far from the Necromancer anymore, so no, he can’t just leave them on you. Minions are far weaker than Pets. A smart Ranger can increase his pet’s life span considerably, even in group play, by utilizing the basic commands. Which a Necromancer doesn’t have.

I’m not talking about a Necromancer running to another point, I’m talking about in a team fight, where he leaves me but attacks my team mates instead, and leaves his minions there to kill me. Why are you always using Necromancers are example of how good Rangers are?

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I play Ranger extremely effectively, and have none of the problems you describe, that’s a l2p problem for you. I’m done arguing with you until you actually learn the game.

Hmm. Kind of unfair statement, trying to make me look like a stupid player who never played the game. You’ve yet to tell me if you even play tournaments or not, because I’m never talking about how the builds work in hot joins..

Invision.1307:

TheMightAltroll, a Ranger is doing great solo, especially in 1v1, but what does it really bring to a team fight? Of course the Pet it doing a lot of damage, but he’s also easy to flank and trick, and in a team fight, the ranger or it’s pet is not what I’m targeting first.

Hope you understand what I mean.

1 V 1 is a large part of a lot of tpvp. Its kind of a red herring to say that a class is strong 1v1 yet somehow has nothing to bring to a team fight. Considering pvp is only 5v5 and a “team fight”s is usually at most 3v3 and many fights are 2v2 you can reason out that if you are very strong 1v1 you are probably pretty strong in those other fights. It is valuable to be hard to kill while having pet do very good damage for you in any type of fight regardless of numbers.

All classes have their downsides, and all have their upsides. The game is very balanced, and there is no class that simply beats the other one. It’s all about how you set up your build, and how you “counter” built your build from the opponent’s.

I’m done with people QQing and telling me that THIS is OP and THIS is UP..
PvP in GW2 is all about skill, strategy and team work.. Not choosing the OP classes.

The reason people want Mesmers nerfed is because the whole clone mechanic in a lot of people’s eyes is just a bogus frustrating mechanic regardless of whether or not Mesmers are op in the context of a 5v5 match. Its just frustrating to face and not fun. Its really not hard to understand. I’m not calling for it to be nerfed Im just saying its easy to see why people don’t like it.

Invision.1307:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Sacrificing 2 traits from a Thief does not nerf damage to the point of being ineffective. Berserker’s gear will make up for it, and you’ll still do more damage than any other class specced for it, while still having more survivability.

Let’s say I’m running 25/30/0/0/15, which is the most glassy build, and I’ll sacrifice some traits to get “Blind on stealth” and “Remove a condition every 3 seconds in stealth”, I will have to remove 20 trait points in a trait-tree, which means I for example have to build it like 25/10/20/0/15.
This means that I’m cutting lose my grandmaster trait in critical strikes which would have given me a 100% crit chance when in stealth, or +20% when enemy is lower than 50% health..
How is this not a huge nerf to my burst?

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Root is not removed immediately from an AoE. I’ve never seen Root used and people escape it without wasting skills anywhere under 3 seconds. That’s a 3 second CC, and a strong one at that. It’s an kill button for any NPCs as well. Hell, it’s a kill button for most Downed players.

When talking about this previously, I mentioned thieves and mesmers as the main classes that can escape this. Thieves only have to spend half a second to escape, even without stun breaker, which you don’t seem to understand, cause you’ve never seen a good thief in the root.
Yes, the pets and minions can easily be killed when they are rooted, but that doesn’t change the team fight..

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

You do not know Necromancer at all. At all. If you did you would realize that your argument is completely false. Minions cannot stray too far from the Necromancer anymore, so no, he can’t just leave them on you. Minions are far weaker than Pets. A smart Ranger can increase his pet’s life span considerably, even in group play, by utilizing the basic commands. Which a Necromancer doesn’t have.

I’m not talking about a Necromancer running to another point, I’m talking about in a team fight, where he leaves me but attacks my team mates instead, and leaves his minions there to kill me. Why are you always using Necromancers are example of how good Rangers are?

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I play Ranger extremely effectively, and have none of the problems you describe, that’s a l2p problem for you. I’m done arguing with you until you actually learn the game.

Hmm. Kind of unfair statement, trying to make me look like a stupid player who never played the game. You’ve yet to tell me if you even play tournaments or not, because I’m never talking about how the builds work in hot joins..

A) Thieves are the strongest attrition class in the game.

B) Have everyone’s Pets and Minions immediately killed doesn’t change a team fight?… This discredits everything you’ve said.

C) A Necromancer cannot leave his pets to kill you while fighting another player. Pets will generally always attack the target the Necro has selected since AI was changed. This discredits everything you’ve said x2

D) I don’t need to try

E) I play tournaments all the time, with premades and solo joins. On all classes.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

A) Thieves are the strongest attrition class in the game.

B) Have everyone’s Pets and Minions immediately killed doesn’t change a team fight?… This discredits everything you’ve said.

C) A Necromancer cannot leave his pets to kill you while fighting another player. Pets will generally always attack the target the Necro has selected since AI was changed. This discredits everything you’ve said x2

D) I don’t need to try

E) I play tournaments all the time, with premades and solo joins. On all classes.

How does it immediately kill every pet and minions?
If a downed player attacks a minion, they will start attacking you, or if you’re simply attacking the minion because he’s attacking you, before the necromancer switches target, he will keep attacking you.
Can you during the next days (today preferably) record a match where you use root in a team fight, so I can see how freaking awesome it is? How no one can ever escape it in less than 3 sec without using stun break, and how all minions and pets die immediately.
Alright, thanks for answering my question about you playing tournaments.

The opness about mesmers is the fact they can build full glass cannon, yet survive as a bunker. No other class (maybe thief) can do that.

A glass thief is not really good as a bunker, if the opponent has enough CC skills, but they might work in some cases.

Root immediately kills Minions, unless there is enough AoE to remove the Root before hand, which is unlikely unless it’s point-specific. Remember, alot of the AoE in the game is condition based, which doesn’t affect Roots. So unless you’re going to go around de-rooting all of the pets… they’ll die. This especially hurts Thieves and Minionmancers, but it can also Interrupt and mess over Mesmers as well as other Rangers.

You do not understand Necromancer minions, please stop talking about them. Their AI does not work the way you think it does.

I don’t have any recording software, otherwise I would do so, gladly.

Edit: There you go thinking that Thieves die easily again… best damage mitigation in the game and you think they die from stepping on a thumbtac. Thieves make some of the strongest bunkers in the game, and infact still manage to do high damage. Considering standing on a point might involve eating about 20 Caltrops…

You gotta realize that a glass thief can’t tank. Only way for him to survive and actually hold the point is to kill the enemy before he dies or have to escape. In order to deal with great damage, they have to dodge or blind. Most glass thieves don’t use blind in the trait or utility skills, which means that is off the table. They also do not have vigor constantly, to bring up the endurance to dodge. Therefore, it’s squishy and not easy to bunker if you’re a glass thief. And you must have skipped the part where the previous poster said glass cannon, not just thieves in general..

If you have an elementalist in the team fight, he can use meteor shower to kill the root really fast with pure dps (AoE).
Try attacking a necro-minion when downed. They don’t just stand there..
You say that rooting especially hurts thieves. Are you talking about thieves or thieves giuld? Thieves are the ones that can escape it fastest using their shortbow. If you meant thieves guild, I don’t understand why you mentioned that, because who uses thieves guild in tournaments?

Man, I don’t think you play high level tournaments. The Thieves I see, easily bunker, easily tank, and actually out-perform and survive my Lich form.

Also, a Thief can infact have vigor up constantly. Look closely over the traits that Thief has… I won’t tell you which ones… think of it as a challenge. There is a reason why there are Caltrop builds with Thieves have near-infinite dodging.

Having an STAFF Elementalist in your team is incredibly situational and unlikely.

Thieves Guild, which is one of the primary sources of damage for non-heartseeker monkey builds.

Thieves guild is used often in tournaments… it’s incredibly strong in P/D builds… do you know anything other than D/D? Because I’m really questioning the legitimacy of your points here.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

You do not understand Necromancer minions, please stop talking about them. Their AI does not work the way you think it does.

I don’t have any recording software, otherwise I would do so, gladly.

Here we go, man!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riO9Mzbcbj8

Ah. I love browsing through the replies sometimes.
People are apparently kittening idiots and have no clue about good balance, if they think that a 5 sec CD semi-stunbreak weapon skill is OP (Phase Retreat).
But it’s okay to whine about rangers pets, although they have incredibly bad AI and almost always permanent cripple since every ranger is using Empathic Bond (And i cannot even begin to describe how useless that is for a BM build).

KrisHQ.4719:

Ah. I love browsing through the replies sometimes.
People are apparently kittening idiots and have no clue about good balance, if they think that a 5 sec CD semi-stunbreak weapon skill is OP (Phase Retreat).
But it’s okay to whine about rangers pets, although they have incredibly bad AI and almost always permanent cripple since every ranger is using Empathic Bond (And i cannot even begin to describe how useless that is for a BM build).

F1. F3

Minionmancer would like to have a word with you.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Man, I don’t think you play high level tournaments. The Thieves I see, easily bunker, easily tank, and actually out-perform and survive my Lich form.

Also, a Thief can infact have vigor up constantly. Look closely over the traits that Thief has… I won’t tell you which ones… think of it as a challenge. There is a reason why there are Caltrop builds with Thieves have near-infinite dodging.

Having an STAFF Elementalist in your team is incredibly situational and unlikely.

Thieves Guild, which is one of the primary sources of damage for non-heartseeker monkey builds.

Thieves guild is used often in tournaments… it’s incredibly strong in P/D builds… do you know anything other than D/D? Because I’m really questioning the legitimacy of your points here.

I know absolutely all the builds for a thief, and of course I know they can have vigor up and running 90% of the time (100% if you steal vigor boons with s/d), but almost none of them are viable for tpvp (high ranked tpvp). Ask the top players (thiefs) EU and they will tell you that the only really good build is d/p burst. 25/30/0/0/15.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Archaon.6245:

But you know…we have clones so we definately deserve more nerfs…

/sarcasm

How does that qualify as Sarcasm… or even as funny?

Because people thing clones do soooo much damage. and the clones confuse them so that equals nerf in their eyes.

hharry.1967:

The opness about mesmers is the fact they can build full glass cannon, yet survive as a bunker. No other class (maybe thief) can do that.

My bunker guard can face tank at least 3 people on a point with no problem and he never leaves the point… My Mesmer can maybe survive two but not for more than a 10 seconds after which I better either have one downed with enough health to stomp or have an exit strategy or else I am screwed… Same goes for any GC Mesmer… also Mesmer bunker builds aren’t exactly the best for a Mesmer in tPvP because even when bunkered to our limit we lack condition removal that other bunker classes get free of charge… hence why you see so many GC shatter mesmers in tourneys… Lack of options… its either some form of shatter or the phantasm build… That’s about all we get.

Invision.1307:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Man, I don’t think you play high level tournaments. The Thieves I see, easily bunker, easily tank, and actually out-perform and survive my Lich form.

Also, a Thief can infact have vigor up constantly. Look closely over the traits that Thief has… I won’t tell you which ones… think of it as a challenge. There is a reason why there are Caltrop builds with Thieves have near-infinite dodging.

Having an STAFF Elementalist in your team is incredibly situational and unlikely.

Thieves Guild, which is one of the primary sources of damage for non-heartseeker monkey builds.

Thieves guild is used often in tournaments… it’s incredibly strong in P/D builds… do you know anything other than D/D? Because I’m really questioning the legitimacy of your points here.

I know absolutely all the builds for a thief, and of course I know they can have vigor up and running 90% of the time (100% if you steal vigor boons with s/d), but almost none of them are viable for tpvp (high ranked tpvp). Ask the top players (thiefs) EU and they will tell you that the only really good build is d/p burst. 25/30/0/0/15.

Funny, I asked some of the top Thief players in NA, and they all love the high evasion builds. They dominate most players in tPvP when used effectively.

I beat 7 classes with my eyes closed, cause I’m a skilled ninja and they are all noobs. But a mesmer beats me? CLASS BALANCE ISSUE! THIEVES ARE UNDERPOWERED! MESMERS ARE OVERPOWERED!

Wait, there are Rangers in this thread that actually care about whether their pet lives when they’re using their trap build? If you’re using a trap build, you do not need your pet alive, as you can easily keep the damage up by yourself, no matter whether it’s PvP, PvE, or WvW. The only pet you really have to worry about keeping alive usually is the Wolf (for when you get downed), and even then, you just need to not switch to it in order to save it for the time you need it most.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Funny, I asked some of the top Thief players in NA, and they all love the high evasion builds. They dominate most players in tPvP when used effectively.

NA.. Of course you can use S/D in tpvp, but it doesn’t bring anything else than boon-steal to the team, and it’s survivability is very limited in a team fight, however, in a 1v1 or 2v2 it’s survivability is very good.

NA.. Of course you can use S/D in tpvp, but it doesn’t bring anything else than boon-steal to the team, and it’s survivability is very limited in a team fight, however, in a 1v1 or 2v2 it’s survivability is very good.Just get over it.

Invision.1307:

PvP in GW2 is all about skill, strategy and team work.. Not choosing the OP classes.

ORLY

As far as mesmers and rongers are concerned, I’d LOVE to see them disappear alltogether from pvp. Good riddance. Crawl bk to your hole @clownville.com
If I wanted to play with and against AI, I’d go play Hero Battles.

Dest.7410:

And, yes I am talking about mesmers. People have been complaining about portal=nerfed, people have been complaining about might on shatters=nerfed, people have been complaining about quickness=nerf, people cried their eyes out about confusion in PvE=nerf

However.

Most (if not all) of these ‘changes’ were done on real numbers and facts, and even if they were not done in the most elegant way, the nerfs themselves were reasonable up to an extend.

For whoever’s sake you believe at, don’t and I mean DON’T think that crying about a certain skill/combo/trait etc. will bring about a nerf. It does not work that way, just makes people frustrated.

So, since I am talking about mesmers…. leave our blurred frenzy alone. You don’t see bazillions of mesmers running a sword build, guess why? Because even for the ‘OP’ blurred frenzy, it still lacks in many areas compared to, say, staff. AND it requires a good amount of skill to be used correctly. What, surprised that mesmers are actually a class that requires skill to kill you? More so than some other classes might I add.

Oh, and please can you notice the ‘great number’ of mesmer players in high-end pvp? In hotjoin, of course there are going to be many of them, just because the place is full of people that are not as good in pvp, so they get destroyed. But once you up the scale a little, the number of mesmers drops dramatically, just because it is not an OP class, as was expected by many.

In the recent months mesmer population has been decreasing nerf after nerf. If this carries on, you will have a mesmer-free game. Appealing? Let me rephrase it…. You will have a game that will be filled with other classes that you have to deal with! And some of them will be equally or more annoying than a mesmer.

But of course, any class that requires you to use your brains to fight it is OP…. I do have bad news for you.

Yes, this is a whine thread, and yes I play mesmer ankittenired of waiting for the patch notes to see what part of the profession got destroyed.

Just be reasonable at what you ask. There is always going to be a ‘strongest’ mesmer ability, be it a shatter, a fury-buffed phantasm, a team buff giving field or an invulnerability that also does damage (if the stars align that is)

And guess what? After that it’s going to be things like Phase retreat which do a whole grand of 0 damage and allows a clothie to escape. Who would have thought such an ability is needed?

Stop crying. It is useless.

No matter what build of Mesmer I use and no matter how much I “understand” the mechanic, nothing helps when playing a Mesmer in spvp – I am downed in one and dead in two hits.

Whoever has a Mesmer that can do far more than that is doing magic, I’ve tried so many builds to level 80 I am sure I tried them all that are found on the net at the good (not guide garbage) websites and all suggestions from every forum in this game.

Ranger is easier than Mesner is in spvp, good for me or I’d have nothing at all to play in this game.

hey so kind of off-topic but not really. mainly being, id no’t think mesmers are by ANY means losing their edge in the game..

anyways, so last night ended up facing a team of 4 mesmers and a thief. how do i take on 2 mesmers and a thief at the same time? Guardian btw.. roamer build. so. many. illusions. and the real deals were stealthed half a second after finding them. : ((

atheria.2837:

No matter what build of Mesmer I use and no matter how much I “understand” the mechanic, nothing helps when playing a Mesmer in spvp – I am downed in one and dead in two hits.

Whoever has a Mesmer that can do far more than that is doing magic, I’ve tried so many builds to level 80 I am sure I tried them all that are found on the net at the good (not guide garbage) websites and all suggestions from every forum in this game.

Ranger is easier than Mesner is in spvp, good for me or I’d have nothing at all to play in this game.

I just jumped onto mesmer, and copied this build:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-Overpowered-PvP-Phantasm-Build/first

First time I played, I killed people.

There is more:

I stood still, screwed up every single Blurred Frenzy I could screw up, forgot to heal and so on.

All I neded to do was running away at low health, while summoning phantasms. And really, phantasms are something you can spam and that aims for you. Easy. EXTREMELY easy.

No use: I still won.

It’s like the game won’t allow me to lose as long as I run this build.

Seriously: don’t tell me I am winning because I am good. I am not. I never learnt to dodge, I still need 1-2 seconds to spot the real mesmer, and I still can’t tell what abilities my enemies are using. Sometimes even running behind me is enough to take me down.

I am probably the worst player in Europe.

I don’t know if this should be nerfed, but we should tell to all new players:
“If you go into a hotjoin and get dominated by a phantasm mesmer… IT’S OK BRO. Don’t be sad about it. You are not as bad as you may think.”