Guild Wars 2

I had an idea of how to nerf thief in a way that promotes fun and counter play. It may sound extreme but i have no doubt this change will keep thief op in gw2 pvp

My idea is to reduce initiative regen by 20%. This way when thieves just spam on you they have to consider that spamming skills like headshot will be worse than waiting for a visual animation to interrupt something.

My back up ideas are to give withdraw kitten longer cd. In addition make shortbow teleport cost 1 more ini. Also make headshot cost 2 more init.

Steal should also be able to be los ed.

With these changes thief will still be op but might not be totally broken.

Also thief steal from necro should be half the fear duration and a thief should not get aegis, stab or prot off mesmer steal.

Thoughts?

P.s. i have ran these changes by a focus group of ppl i think and they all say they are good changes.

I promise you nobody likes power ranger. So no skill dude standing on a ledge spamming you down is completely ridiculous.

My idea is to nerf it in a way which allows for counter play. The damage of all longbow skills should be reduced by around 10% so there is counter play to getting to the ranger and maybe killing him if you play well enough.

Thoughts?

I only find the range on Longbow to be broken. I’m fine with the damage. 90% of LB rangers are fairly easy to deal with once in range, but as has been mentioned their range is like 1.8k range. I feel like range should be capped to 1.5k.

I main power ranger and I really embrace the love I get every day.

Hmmm but where is the FUN? The title of the thread promised it.

I mean I agree that it should be changed to offer more play/counterplay, but this is a simple nerf.

Which leads me back to my question. Where is the FUN I was promised?

L2P.

/thread

Range needs to be fixed.

No more arrows from 1.8k+

It’s a bug.

I’d trade the extra 300 range longbow gets if I can have a traitable 1200 range Shortbow with Eagle Eye :P

Also, even as a longtime Ranger main, I find both power rangers and the new entangle rather obnoxious to fight against.

I have no issue with rangers. You just need to adapt your build and playstyle to the sPvP meta. Rangers adapted their build to take advantage of the weakness of whatever build you’re running. Now adapt YOUR build to incorporate some ranger counter.

10% reduced damage is not exactly a “fun” nerf nor does it introduce any new sort of counterplay.

giving it counter play would be something like “25% reduced damage if hitting a target in the font” so to do full damage htey have to hit you from back/side. This would allow counterplay to get in their face while they try to keep you kited.

I was seeing teams with 2-4 power rangers for most of last night’s gaming session. I maintain that the long bow is OP.

Damage should scale DOWN with range as it would in reality.

Don’t you play necro? This is a l2p issue.

An L2P issue? No, I play well enough to make Dragon rank. The old L2P saw is a thin disguise to deflect criticism. Truthfully, I’m sick of hearing it.

Ithilwen.1529:

An L2P issue? No, I play well enough to make Dragon rank. The old L2P saw is a thin disguise to deflect criticism. Truthfully, I’m sick of hearing it.

My comment was directed at OP, not you. Although it still applies to you if you play necromancer and are having this much trouble with longbow Rangers. They have almost no condi removal.

Also dragon rank is meaningless, in case you didn’t already know.

Any half decent thief easily counters a power ranger, I have been playing it lately and I would agree that the only fix really needed is the range. You can nuke from half a map away almost

I can normally take out a Power Ranger, assuming a fight that begins with both at full health and powers and at a relatively short to mid range.

At long range, I’m in deep trouble. Entangle lasts way too long and it allows the ranger to stand out of my range and plink until I die.

Lately, I’ve been seeing two or more power rangers acting in tandem, which is a ridiculously OP setup.

The longbow is too strong. I think that will become more and more obvious as we see premades like the group I met last night with 4 power rangers and an Ele.

I personally think every build type should have a counter.

LB ranger counters Zerker and Carrion builds which need to be within melee to mid range to do damage. Which it should.. those builds typically have no defenses to speak of and with no toughness they will burst you down fast.

If you build a less glassy build.. lets say an amulet with toughness and add points into some defensive lines LB rangers become much less of a problem.. they can’t burst you down and you will have time to get in close to attack them… in this scenario player skills comes into play.

If you build for a tank/bunker.. LB rangers can’t do anything to you.. they have a lot of burst damage but, at least in my opinion, do not have a lot of sustained damage.. so as a tank/bunker you will out heal their damage and over a long fight you will end up killing them.. (assuming they don’t run away).

Those are all 1v1 scenarios though.. in team fights you need to keep watch for the LB rangers on the other team and have your team focus them, this is assuming they are the biggest threat at the time. Also remember you only ever need 1 person on your team on the capture point at one time.. this makes it so your team can chase down the ranger and kill him.

Also note I do not play ranger or have I ever played ranger. I play Necro and I see no problem with LB rangers.

Lordrosicky.5813:

I promise you nobody likes power ranger. So no skill dude standing on a ledge spamming you down is completely ridiculous.

My idea is to nerf it in a way which allows for counter play. The damage of all longbow skills should be reduced by around 10% so there is counter play to getting to the ranger and maybe killing him if you play well enough.

Thoughts?

No counter=No challenge= No fun. I think damage adjustment is not good idea, that is why i suggest ranger range to be 1300.

soooo….a base damage reduction suddenly is counterplay?

Im assuming you want the weapon to once again be bad at the ONLY thing it can do?
Like it was for the entire first half of the game where thieves LITERALLY referred to the entire playstyle as “free loot bags” rather than its actual name?

gods above. So many people have adapted and learned to handle it. The only class that really has a right to complain about longbow rangers are necromancers. And thats because they lack some of the tools necessary to deal with the issue. None of other classes have that problem.

As for “no skill dude standing on a ledge”

Lets look at that in reality. (He specifically chose to ambush from a location that gave him an advantage. Hey…thats a skillfull and well done play on his part. You chose to chose a path that led by that location WITHOUT keeping an eye on it for possible ambush. You kittened up)

The only time where a longbow ranger gets EASY kills is when there +1ning (but most classes in certain builds get EASY kills when +1ning) or when fighting people that made kitten poor decisions in there engagement. In other words. New players or old players that didn’t bother adapting to reality.

In other words. Get good and actually THINK about where your standing and maybe you wont get rapid fire spammed as often.

Line of Sight do you use it?

I occassionaly play power ranger, but now I don’t touch any bows, going full melee power. So I approve range reduction :P.

Hipsta.

Ithilwen.1529:

I play well enough to make Dragon rank.

Those two things are not related.

time spent in pvp =/= pvp prowess

ive had too many r80’s in my team who where complete trash, 2 dragon ranks coming to home point while i was already on it for 10 seconds? puh-lease.

Roe.3679:

Ithilwen.1529:

An L2P issue? No, I play well enough to make Dragon rank. The old L2P saw is a thin disguise to deflect criticism. Truthfully, I’m sick of hearing it.

My comment was directed at OP, not you. Although it still applies to you if you play necromancer and are having this much trouble with longbow Rangers. They have almost no condi removal.

Also dragon rank is meaningless, in case you didn’t already know.

Don’t their pets take like, 3 condi’s off every 10s? I dunno, I haven’t played ranger yet. But if I’m correct, that’s more than I can do!

Turk.5460:

Don’t their pets take like, 3 condi’s off every 10s? I dunno, I haven’t played ranger yet. But if I’m correct, that’s more than I can do!

Only if the have 6 points in wilderness survival and select that as a grandmaster trait, which most power builds will not have. But when you meet that paragon of power ranger perfect with a 6/6/6/6/6 build then the profession might need nerfed.

Turk.5460:

Roe.3679:

Ithilwen.1529:

An L2P issue? No, I play well enough to make Dragon rank. The old L2P saw is a thin disguise to deflect criticism. Truthfully, I’m sick of hearing it.

My comment was directed at OP, not you. Although it still applies to you if you play necromancer and are having this much trouble with longbow Rangers. They have almost no condi removal.

Also dragon rank is meaningless, in case you didn’t already know.

Don’t their pets take like, 3 condi’s off every 10s? I dunno, I haven’t played ranger yet. But if I’m correct, that’s more than I can do!

Depends on the build but a ranger that does the kind of damage people complain about wouldn’t have that kind of removal.

Kousetsu.1627:

time spent in pvp =/= pvp prowess

And on top of that, time spent pewpewing from a ledge does not win a round. Power rangers can do good damage, but against people actually holding points, they will still take a while. 100 points lost while pewpeing instead of trying to contest the point, GG. As a wingman, they are as strong as anyone else. Their range matter little.

Turk.5460:

Roe.3679:

Ithilwen.1529:

An L2P issue? No, I play well enough to make Dragon rank. The old L2P saw is a thin disguise to deflect criticism. Truthfully, I’m sick of hearing it.

My comment was directed at OP, not you. Although it still applies to you if you play necromancer and are having this much trouble with longbow Rangers. They have almost no condi removal.

Also dragon rank is meaningless, in case you didn’t already know.

Don’t their pets take like, 3 condi’s off every 10s? I dunno, I haven’t played ranger yet. But if I’m correct, that’s more than I can do!

That is a VERY specific build htat involves traiting heavily into the toughness condition power line. Meaning that most if not ALL power rangers will NOT have that trait Your more likely to see it on condi rangers

Troll thread. Pls close.

Ouroboros.5076:

L2P.

/thread

Ithilwen.1529:

An L2P issue? No, I play well enough to make Dragon rank.

I laughed for a good while at that. Thanks.

shrug i have zero problems with power rangers, of almost any skill level as a thief of any spec or ele (dd cele or scep/foc fresh air) in arenas, and those 2 are my mains. My warrior handles them ok-ish tho i have poor experience with it. My power shatter mesmer gets destroyed tho i have poor experience with it, and ts IMO a very high skill-cap class. i don’t know if it’ll overtake an equal skill player once i master the power shatter mes. My medi guard feels about on par with power rangers. I’m moderately comfortable with the guard.

That being said i do trapper power ranger in WvW with a couple guilldies who do the same. the potential to almost perma stealth and have mad mobility and have 3-4 rangers pop out already rapid firing you from stealth is nuts imo. as a small flanking group with piercing arrows and LB #5 you can do insane hurt on huge zergs while having easy GTFO ability. Its pretty good zerg-bust.

I havent tried to do ranger in arena yet, as i JUST made the class and hit 80. i’ll give it a shot soon, though it appears from general experience/observation that it is NOT overpowered. It is simply a low skill cap class, and the tactics to beat it require higher skill caps. But the power ranger’s tools also feel very limited. Its a quick power curve when just starting GW, but i feel it plateaus much earlier than other classes. the simplicity of power ranger is its downfall as it means the class isnt very versatile. Its highly predictable because its only an effective class when perched above mid. you see an enemy ranger, assume that’s where they’ll be 24/7 and play around it.

pro-tip: power rangers cant handle pressure in their face. they WILL knockback as the first thing they do. Easy to anticipate and dodge or stabilkity it. after the knockdown is nullified the fight is easy. they’ll pop invuln or die. save offensive/defensive cooldowns until the ranger invulns. After invulns are popped ranger is an easy target. all you really need tto do is evade or pop stability for the knockback. the rest is easymode.

Not op? Explain then why WvW and PvP got full in 1 sec after the buff.

Conaywea.5062:

Not op? Explain then why WvW and PvP got full in 1 sec after the buff.

becasue everyone wanted to play a class that could deal damage near to par of other classes and a lot of people do this its called Bandwagon<<.

Con the ranger archetype has always been one of the most popular in gaming. Only in this game its system of play pretty much barred rangers form wvw entirely (unless you were condi) and tpvp (unless you were condi or a full glass gimick maul build)

When the longbow playstyle got buffed to the point where it WASN’T a completely idiotic thing to bring in a team. all the people that wanted to play that playstyle but new they be hurting there team and had switched to other setups came back in droves. Its like having a car you really want to drive but it doesnt work properly so you can’t safely take it onto the road with other cars around. Then suddenly a mechanic came buy and fixed your car to the point it COULD go on the high way with other cars. Suddenly your driving it alot more than you used to.

Conaywea.5062:

Not op? Explain then why WvW and PvP got full in 1 sec after the buff.

Arenanet balances their game around the top tier of gameplay.

Sure, it’s easy to gun down noobs with Rapid Fire in PvP and WvW. It’s even easy to apply substantial pressure to more experienced players as a power ranger. However, given the fact that we’ve seen essentially 1 competitive power ranger in the top tier of PvP, its pretty easy to see that the build is not truly overpowered at that level. For example, when Hambow and Dhuumfire Necromancer were OP, the entire community saw a great increase in people playing those builds (both in lower and the absolute top tier of gameplay). It’s hard to say the same about Ranger.

In fact, until we see a team succeeding with double power rangers, like teams did with double hambow or double ele or double spirit ranger, its pretty hard to say the build is overpowered. Sure, it’s kitteng annoying to fight against, especially if you just get randomly bursted in the middle of a teamfight. However, the annoyance factor of a build doesn’t honestly play into how it is balanced.

Overall, the emergence of Berserker specs like Fresh Air, Power Ranger, Medi Guard, and perhaps even Power Necro shows the game is becoming better balanced and far less Thief/Mesmer centered.

Power Ranger’s stink.

Ithilwen.1529:

The longbow is too strong. I think that will become more and more obvious as we see premades like the group I met last night with 4 power rangers and an Ele.

Did it happen to be in EU Region? :>

Lordrosicky.5813:

I promise you nobody likes power ranger. So no skill dude standing on a ledge spamming you down is completely ridiculous.

My idea is to nerf it in a way which allows for counter play. The damage of all longbow skills should be reduced by around 10% so there is counter play to getting to the ranger and maybe killing him if you play well enough.

Thoughts?

Please no…

Rangers are fine. This is coming from a guy who plays WARRIOR no less. Look all you do is counter the burst with a block or retaliation, done, sit back and watch as he bursts himself to 0 HP!

I’m fine with it. I’m a mesmer and I find I can kill most rangers that rely on their ranged burst to do all their work. All a matter of closing the distance and avoiding damage as you do. If you can’t, that’s your own fault since all classes have their own way to do this in one form or another.

Honestly, I’m getting tired of all these rangers around. Top teams don’t run them but in every game there is at least two power rangers. Last game enemy team had three rangers (shoutouts to matchmaking). I don’t think they’re op, but playing a power ranger yoloq is way too easy. They’re just plain annoying.

At least they kill themselves because they never heard about stow weapon and freely rapid fire into my reflect.

Coming from a high rank pvper like you , I feel really sad that you can spit out something nonconstructive and unproductive like this… Guess GW2 community really goes to a downhill.

There’s nothing constructive going on as to how this damage nerf can be compensated in other ways. There’s no specific examples as to what you mean by no counter-play, when you can just instantly gap close the ranger and make him much less of a threat, you can blind him because LB has slow attack speed other than RF, you can block him, you can reflect, you can “ALWAYS” dodge a portion of the skill because it’s not a burst but a channel skill. (Warrior F1 rifle can instantly dish out 16k damage in one hit). Also the sustain of LB power ranger is terrible if they want to maintain high enough of dm.

Not to mention Power Ranger is nowhere near the Meta PVP class, and nowhere stronger than any of the meta classes. It does not carry people in solo que either because it cannot bunk the node well, and rely on your team to determine the win unlike other much stronger meta classes.

So all I can respond to this type of thread is: L2P..

Aomine.5012:

Coming from a high rank pvper , I feel really sad that you can spit out something nonconstructive and unproductive like this… Guess GW2 community really goes to a downhill.

There’s nothing constructive going on as to how this damage nerf can be compensated in other ways. There’s no specific examples as to what you mean by no counter-play, when you can just instantly gap close the ranger and make him much less of a threat, you can blind him because LB has slow attack speed other than RF, you can block him, you can reflect, you can “ALWAYS” dodge a portion of the skill because it’s not a burst but a channel skill. (Warrior F1 rifle can instantly dish out 16k damage in one hit). Also the sustain of LB power ranger is terrible if they want to maintain high enough of dm.

Not to mention Power Ranger is nowhere near the Meta PVP class, and nowhere stronger than any of the meta classes. It does not carry people in solo que either because it cannot bunk the node well, and rely on your team to determine the win unlike other much stronger meta classes.

So all I can respond to this type of thread is: L2P..

I do agree with you mostly, but ‘instantly gap close ranger’…I really want to know how I’m supposed to do that as fresh air ele. (or anything that’s not thief)

Laraley.7695:

Aomine.5012:

Coming from a high rank pvper , I feel really sad that you can spit out something nonconstructive and unproductive like this… Guess GW2 community really goes to a downhill.

There’s nothing constructive going on as to how this damage nerf can be compensated in other ways. There’s no specific examples as to what you mean by no counter-play, when you can just instantly gap close the ranger and make him much less of a threat, you can blind him because LB has slow attack speed other than RF, you can block him, you can reflect, you can “ALWAYS” dodge a portion of the skill because it’s not a burst but a channel skill. (Warrior F1 rifle can instantly dish out 16k damage in one hit). Also the sustain of LB power ranger is terrible if they want to maintain high enough of dm.

Not to mention Power Ranger is nowhere near the Meta PVP class, and nowhere stronger than any of the meta classes. It does not carry people in solo que either because it cannot bunk the node well, and rely on your team to determine the win unlike other much stronger meta classes.

So all I can respond to this type of thread is: L2P..

I do agree with you mostly, but ‘instantly gap close ranger’…I really want to know how I’m supposed to do that as fresh air ele. (or anything that’s not thief)

Thief, Warrior and Guardian says hi. (especially thief).

As to ele, you have alot of projectile reflection if you take a off-hand focus, and you also have invulnerability, constant protection, and very high sustain to deal with power ranger.

Aomine.5012:

Laraley.7695:

Aomine.5012:

Coming from a high rank pvper , I feel really sad that you can spit out something nonconstructive and unproductive like this… Guess GW2 community really goes to a downhill.

There’s nothing constructive going on as to how this damage nerf can be compensated in other ways. There’s no specific examples as to what you mean by no counter-play, when you can just instantly gap close the ranger and make him much less of a threat, you can blind him because LB has slow attack speed other than RF, you can block him, you can reflect, you can “ALWAYS” dodge a portion of the skill because it’s not a burst but a channel skill. (Warrior F1 rifle can instantly dish out 16k damage in one hit). Also the sustain of LB power ranger is terrible if they want to maintain high enough of dm.

Not to mention Power Ranger is nowhere near the Meta PVP class, and nowhere stronger than any of the meta classes. It does not carry people in solo que either because it cannot bunk the node well, and rely on your team to determine the win unlike other much stronger meta classes.

So all I can respond to this type of thread is: L2P..

I do agree with you mostly, but ‘instantly gap close ranger’…I really want to know how I’m supposed to do that as fresh air ele. (or anything that’s not thief)

Thief, Warrior and Guardian says hi. (especially thief).

As to ele, you have alot of projectile reflection if you take a off-hand focus, and you also have invulnerability, constant protection, and very high sustain to deal with power ranger.

Yeah, I know I have ways to deal with rangers but saying it’s easy to instantly gap closer a ranger with 2K range was just funny.

The broken thing about ranger is mainly its autoattack. Its inescapable, hits hard as hell, fires fast as hell also. Even in sPvP, the autoattack from a ranger while I play a zerker class is about 2-3k on a crit without sigil procs. Thats just from pressing 1 lol. In wvw ive been hit for 8k by an autoattack with sigil procs.

Basically, as it stands, all you really need to do on ranger is press 1 and 2 and stand really far away to be super effective. Its too great of a reward for the tiny effort it takes.

rainisword.7860:

The broken thing about ranger is mainly its autoattack. Its inescapable, hits hard as hell, fires fast as hell also. Even in sPvP, the autoattack from a ranger while I play a zerker class is about 2-3k on a crit without sigil procs. Thats just from pressing 1 lol. In wvw ive been hit for 8k by an autoattack with sigil procs.

Basically, as it stands, all you really need to do on ranger is press 1 and 2 and stand really far away to be super effective. Its too great of a reward for the tiny effort it takes.

It is only when traited RtW that LB becomes inescapable. Otherwise the flying speed of LB is still slow as hell. You need to sacrifices things like piercing arrow, spotter, and predator’s onslaught just to make LB reliably hit, how is it not a tradeoff?

My suggestion is, STOP RUNNING AWAY FROM RANGER. If you fight him up front and pressure him in closer range, you have much better chance of winning a ranger. You can even just move behind him and outright cancel the RF halfway. (It happens to my ranger A LOT when fighting some better opponent who knows what he’s doing)

It’s L2P, not L2Whine because you lost to the weakest PvP profession.

Aomine.5012:

rainisword.7860:

The broken thing about ranger is mainly its autoattack. Its inescapable, hits hard as hell, fires fast as hell also. Even in sPvP, the autoattack from a ranger while I play a zerker class is about 2-3k on a crit without sigil procs. Thats just from pressing 1 lol. In wvw ive been hit for 8k by an autoattack with sigil procs.

Basically, as it stands, all you really need to do on ranger is press 1 and 2 and stand really far away to be super effective. Its too great of a reward for the tiny effort it takes.

It is only when traited RtW that LB becomes inescapable. Otherwise the flying speed of LB is still slow as hell. You need to sacrifices things like piercing arrow, spotter, and predator’s onslaught just to make LB reliably hit, how is it not a tradeoff?

My suggestion is, STOP RUNNING AWAY FROM RANGER. If you fight him up front and pressure him in closer ranger, you have much better chance of winning a ranger. You can even just move behind him and outright cancel the RF halfway. (It happens to my ranger A LOT when fighting some better opponent who knows what he’s doing)

I know this already. Almost every ranger traits for faster arrows though. And closing the gap 1800 range is pretty difficult in most cases.

rainisword.7860:

closing the gap 1800 range is pretty difficult in most cases.

What build are you running? If it’s anything other than necro you’re totally and horrifically incompetent. Hell thieves can close the gap from like 2500 range. If it’s necro, you’re not playing the fight correctly.