Guild Wars 2

Nerf mesmer, nerf elementalist, nerf burn, nerf rampage, nerf engineers, Nerf everything.

Guys can we just all calm down. and rather discuss how to counter those supposedly OP builds? Can we make a thread in which we dedicate it to discussions of builds and showcase how to counter the current meta? Instead of just crying nerf, Because for the Love of it. I really cannot fathom what the problem is. Mesmers became just a tad bit stronger post patch, elementalist are noticably stronger in terms of damage sustain but still beatable. And the thing is. I’m just rank 60 plus, my winrate is still roughly 50/50. I’m not an high tier player. I do not frequently do pvp. My friends who run warrior, necromancer, ranger do not get thier kitten stomped in. And when they do use the OP classes such as mesmer and elementalist, they still regularly lose to warriors, guardians, rangers. So are we just that good? Or do we all happen to constantly fight against noobs? Or are we just average players who fight players at a variety of levels? We also aren’t a premade team.

The last option seems to be the most plausible. I just don’t get it. When people say how they got 50 kittening k of burn ticks, or got a 20 k burst of mesmer, and got constantly stunned. Or cannot catch the mesmer or lock them down at all,Or somehow can’t kill an elementalist with even 2 or 3 people on point. My question is: What the kitten are you guys doing? Do you not run any condi cleanses, do you not run any resistance or berserker stance? Do you not have any runes that diminish cond duration? Do you not convert condi’s into boons? Do you not have any cc or lockdowns? no immobilize? no chill, weakness or cripple? Do you guys just stand there and take it? Do guys not retreat or go out of line of sight? No you guys cannot all be this bad. I take it the majority of players are just players just like me that play pvp from time to time, maby with friends sometimes.

Yet I and the people I acosiate with, not just friends but also enemiy player, or people i see on hotjoin. aren’t suffering from those 50 k burnthings, perma stealth or a 20 k mesmer burst. or perma blind.

So what do i think that the problem is? The problem mainly lies within the builds. I’m not calling the meta perfect because i’ve seen people who come with constructive critism. for example people suggesting for diamond skin to be resistance based, or perhaps removing stability from rampage. Capping stealth to 5 seconds. I may not agree with all of them. These kind of critisms are way different then idiots actually wishing for a mesmer to not use stealth or to nerf a kitten class in full. I do not want for A-net to be given misinformation and go in with over the top nerfs or balance changes when it’s not needed. Changes like that are quite expensive as they affect the whole game, not just pvp.

So this is what I propose. We showcase our builds. No matter what side you are on. dicuss it weaknesses, it’s pro’s and cons how it stacks up to other classes. I mainly want to classes that are generally considered to suffer from the current ’’meta’’ classes or builds that have trouble with mesmer and elemtalists you are free to join. I welcome every class. Rampage warriors come on out.

Also inb4 i get called out on bieng a mesmer that get’s carried by his build. Well no. Í main guardian as a first, engineer as a sec and mesmer as 3rd option. I have nothing to hide.

Well I will start. And showcase my celestial hybrid guardian.

I’m reaching out to you guys. I’m even willing to test my build against yours, tell u my weaknesses and everything. Spread the word guys. Instead of me bieng a ’’L2P’’ scrub, I will now open myself to scrutiny. and hopefully we can change the community for the better.^^

Thank you for being reasonable. That’s refreshing.

Lately, I’ve run a lot of different declinations of a Juggernaut FT + HGH build on my engineer. Whether it’s Marauder, Celestial or Rabid, rifle or pistols, it always has the same advantages: high stability uptime, to counter mesmers, and a lot of condi cleanses, to counter elementalists (still a hard 1v1, but engineer has always been a weaker dueling profession). Try it out, engis.

Here is the joke: i did ask top mes how to counter them. Answer was: you can’t.

And if you think that mesmers are epitome of balance atm, then i think it would be just fair that thieves for example would get 2 sec invul on every steal, backstab woud be ranged aoe and had no positional requirements, basi venom had multiple charges not wasted upon 1 hit and would stip stab, shadowshot should be unavoidable.

Sounds totally balanced doesn’t _it? (HELLO MODS WHY NORMAL ENGLISH LIKE “DOESN’T I T” gets censored or are we not allowed to use normal form of english anymore?)

Here is my problem with mesmer: to win vs them, they have to be absolute garbage and not being able to land any stuns/shatters and not use any survival tools they have. Realisticaly, that happens only vs low tier mesmers. What happens is:
stun stunbreak stun stunbreak stun… ok stunbreak, jk knockback, immob get rekt.
You say blind mesmers dazes? Oh too bad it actually requires to cast something (jk gets interrupted by mez) and have a target (jk stealth spam worse than from thief ftw).

Or are you suggesting that every class should get multiple instant invuls so they can finally deal with mes? Before patch mesmers were good in good hands and required high skill, now any moron drooling on keyboard can succeeed on this class.

OH, and let’s not forget that pvp is team based game. It MAY be possible to somehow to deal with 1 mes but if he has teammates helping them, even if it is 2v2, it is pretty much GG.

Cynz.9437:

Here is the joke: i did ask top mes how to counter them. Answer was: you can’t.

By being a better mesmer obviously.

Well I’m gonna show you the guardian build that i mainly play with. I’m not gonna be one of those guys anymore that says L2P. And do nothing. No instead i will reveal my builds, something i did not intent on doing so. but guess it has to happen

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRAsf7dlsAhWhYtQwfHQQEH1DldCOhDFPE3XUcDgF9FA-TJxHwADeCA62fAwJBoYZAA

This is my build. I call it well uh: An all arounder guardian, It can do everything. pretty much. I will give a short explanation but, I’m willing to answer questions or concerns that might arise. If you are on an eu server, u can even fight me provided both of us have time to test it out and see it for yourself. Or even do a few pvp matches together with me as an ally^^

Most of it’s damage, not the majority comes from burns. If I had to divide the damage. I’d say 60 percent burn, 40 percent regular damage.

I often start up my attack witht the scepter and the f1 virtue and bait a dodge with smite. After that i catch them with chains of light. And use focus skill 4 if fear my enemy can out dps me.

After that i switch to sword torch. And use torch skill numebr 4 on myself. I teleport using sword skill number 2. then burn them and release torch skill number.4. this is my opening combo ussually.

In terms of defence, I often use my shelter prematurely to stack burning, sword skill number 3 i use often when figting rangers or mesmers, and finnally shield of wrath when on half health.

My healing comes from AH mainly and all shouts convert conditons into boons. and considering the current meta which supports conditons, i get plenty of healing. the sigil of energy also quite helps as i heal for a nice 400 hp per roll.

I’ve find to have trouble with medidation guardians,heavy dps/cc in general heavy cc orientated warriors, hammer, shield/axe is a pain to deal with espically when running berserker stance, half of my dps is cut in half. Also celestial elementalist with diamond skin. is a killer for me. Considering my base attack is just 1560. I’d sometimes spend a good 2 min getting thier hp down to below 90 percent for my attacks to have an affect. they are beatable. but out of my head, from my findings. Heavy cc combined with dps is a deal breaker, anti condi builds are also a deal breaker.

Anyways this is just a short summary. I’m willing to answer questions and if time allows it. even duel or do a few pvp matches together so that you can actually see the build in action. naturally u can test it yourself as well. I encourage everybody who doesn’t suffer from the current post past balance changes to do this. show the builds that allow you to function as ya did pre patch.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Cynz.9437:

Here is the joke: i did ask top mes how to counter them. Answer was: you can’t.

By being a better mesmer obviously.

And having a better team (with a mesmer) than the enemy team (with a mesmer)

Phil.8901:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Cynz.9437:

Here is the joke: i did ask top mes how to counter them. Answer was: you can’t.

By being a better mesmer obviously.

And having a better team (with a mesmer) than the enemy team (with a mesmer)

2 bad mesmers will kill a good one.

Cynz.9437:

Here is the joke: i did ask top mes how to counter them. Answer was: you can’t.

And if you think that mesmers are epitome of balance atm, then i think it would be just fair that thieves for example would get 2 sec invul on every steal, backstab woud be ranged aoe and had no positional requirements, basi venom had multiple charges not wasted upon 1 hit and would stip stab, shadowshot should be unavoidable.

Sounds totally balanced doesn’t _it? (HELLO MODS WHY NORMAL ENGLISH LIKE “DOESN’T I T” gets censored or are we not allowed to use normal form of english anymore?)

Play Improvisation instead of Executioner.

If you really want to win against mesmers by hitting your head on the keyboard like you used to, run SD. The problem is, you’ll lose against everything that’s not a mesmer.

Frankly, if you were an engineer or a necro, I would have told you to just not attack them. But come on, as a thief? It’s not faceroll easy like prepatch, so adapt.

Sorel.4870:

Cynz.9437:

Here is the joke: i did ask top mes how to counter them. Answer was: you can’t.

And if you think that mesmers are epitome of balance atm, then i think it would be just fair that thieves for example would get 2 sec invul on every steal, backstab woud be ranged aoe and had no positional requirements, basi venom had multiple charges not wasted upon 1 hit and would stip stab, shadowshot should be unavoidable.

Sounds totally balanced doesn’t _it? (HELLO MODS WHY NORMAL ENGLISH LIKE “DOESN’T I T” gets censored or are we not allowed to use normal form of english anymore?)

Play Improvisation instead of Executioner.

If you really want to win against mesmers by hitting your head on the keyboard like you used to, run SD. The problem is, you’ll lose against everything that’s not a mesmer.

Frankly, if you were an engineer or a necro, I would have told you to just not attack them. But come on, as a thief? It’s not faceroll easy like prepatch, so adapt.

Improvisation helps to get things like withdraw back EXCEPT YOU WON’T EVEN GET CHANCE TO USE WITHDRAW BECAUSE OF STUN SPAM.

Do you really think, that hitting face on keyboard was enough to win vs good mes pre patch? Really? You must have never faced Frosty, Helseth, Supcutie, George etc.

Thieves weren’t faceroll pre patch, yes they were in decent spot but hardly faceroll. Please name me a commonly used build pre patch that thief had same footing against (besides mes and power ranger). The only reason thieves ever got spot on teams and still have it is their mobility but by no means they were any good vs most common builds in 1v1 nor they were THAT amazing in team fights. This is far from faceroll by definition.

Please prooooove me how thieves were faceroll, please. I would love to hear it. It gets thrown around so much and yet every single idiot i knew that switched to thief crying they are OP and faceroll was crying day later about how absolutely unrewarding and hard to play thief is.
Not to forget all the cries when team ended up with more than 1 thief. OMG 2 thieves, we lost, OMG 3 thieves!!!?? I am afk. <<<This was common thing. Thieves were totally faceroll yo.

And don’t throw your crappy “adapt” at me. I been adapting after every nerf to the class that happend almost every single patch for years.

Mesmers and elementalists, I know you aren’t obliged to do this. But if are viewing this thread and main them in pvp, or atleast have a decent understanding of the class. Show us your builds. let’s bring them on display. Instead of waging a war. We are better off changing the minds of others and maby prevent misinformation bieng spread and become the next kitten necromancers. which is relative but it’s generally considered a heavily nerfed class, not something i agree with in full but then again, i don’t play necro often.

Ok, amuse me: most common mesmer build atm runs confounding suggestion with mantra of distraction. How do you counter that on a class that has no stability while mes is in stealth. I am all ear.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

…We are better off changing the minds of others and maby prevent misinformation bieng spread and become the next kitten necromancers. which is relative but it’s generally considered a heavily nerfed class, not something i agree with in full but then again, i don’t play necro often.

Necro is in a great spot at the moment, actually.

Think I can try to help with some of the “vs Mesmer” issues. I main Mesmer and have about 1k hours in at this point. I consider myself an “average” player; I am not amazing by any means (have around a 53% win rate in PvP atm) but I know my class well enough to put on a good show every now and again. Here is what has been working well against me when I am using some variation of both of the current “meta” power builds (GS/Staff Mantra and GS/S+T Interrupt/Stealth):

1. Stability Heavy-Builds (Some Meditation Guardians, Rampage Warriors, Elementalists, and Juggernaut Engineers)

Hate mantra spam? Get the best stability up-time you can spec for. Makes those dazes and stuns worthless while active. Force that Mesmer to think carefully about using their mantras/diversion/weapon CCs up.

2. Sustain builds (D/D Elementalists, Bunker Guardians)

Mesmers can spike very hard. However, I have noticed that, when played well, you can sustain enough that you will be able to stay just ahead in terms of healing to incoming damage and slowly wear that mes out. Once the CD’s are blown for the Mes, they are easy prey and will either have to disengage or risk getting blown out. FYI, Mesmers (at least the power variety in my experience) excel in short engagements. The longer you draw the fight out, the more ineffective the Mesmer is in the big picture.

3. CC Heavy Builds

If a Mesmer is allowed to cast freely you are going to have a bad time. Focusing them with CC makes them burn through defenses at a unsustainable rate, wearing them out and forcing them to disengage or die. Look out for big tells to interrupt, such as channels, mantra charges, heals, and phantasm summons for best results. Builds that have access to stealth countermeasures (sic em, lock on) should also take advantage of them to ruin the Mesmer’s day.

4. “Unseen” Builds

If the Mesmer can’t see you, they will have a harder time defending against you. This includes Pew Pew rangers making good use of the map. If a Mesmer goes into stealth, wait them out in stealth as well if you can. If not, watch what stealth is use and anticipate accordingly). The more Mesmer CD’s you waste, the better for you.

Builds aside, I guess the best advice I can give for fighting Mesmer players around my level of skill (i.e. Average) is to be patient and play defensively until after the initial burst (Watch the animations to time your defense: If the Great Sword blade is starting high (overhead) and moving down, it’s Mirror Blade; if it starts low and is moving up, it is the GS Phantasm). Once countered, you have ~10 seconds to force the engagement on your terms.

As an added note, condition build can be effective, but must be constantly maintained to overwhelm the ability of the Mesmer to keep up on the cleansing (Mantra Shatter has very strong cleanse options, S + T not so much).

I hope this helps.

Some of the builds I run atm:
GS/Staff Mantra Shatter (Meta Variant/Probably the best build I use regularly)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQJARWl0nhG1YZawGNQtGLnG05TiSTIDwGCa5IaeCA-TpBFABC8AAEvMAJ7PswhAIhjAAAXAAA

No Frills Power Shatter (features none of the crap everyone is griping about lately):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR8flknhG1YZawINwtGLqGE6Cue2JDQBKeZHO+AA-TpBFABC8AAEvMgc7PswBBIhjAAAXAAA

GS/S+T Stun Shatter (FotM approved and is basically what I ran pre-patch):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR8flknhG1YZawGNwtGLnGEaE6+3JDwGWe5IaeCA-TpBFABCcBAEvMgc7PswBBIhjAAAPAAA

Re: Necros – Seen some amazing ones doing really well post patch. MM retaliation/condi transfer and signet builds seems great atm.

Cynz.9437:

Ok, amuse me: most common mesmer build atm runs confounding suggestion with mantra of distraction. How do you counter that on a class that has no stability while mes is in stealth. I am all ear.

Stun breaker + withdraw pretty much negates any mesmer who burst you from stealth. If you are using shadow step or Roll for init 1 skill does it.

Cynz.9437:

Ok, amuse me: most common mesmer build atm runs confounding suggestion with mantra of distraction. How do you counter that on a class that has no stability while mes is in stealth. I am all ear.

The stun is a big tell in stealth. When stunned, use a stun break and dodge/channeled invulnerability/channeled block/evade. I would honestly worry more about Mesmers smart enough to not stun you out of stealth when bursting.

Edit: I see Morgar got there first.

Mogar.9216:

Cynz.9437:

Ok, amuse me: most common mesmer build atm runs confounding suggestion with mantra of distraction. How do you counter that on a class that has no stability while mes is in stealth. I am all ear.

Stun breaker + withdraw pretty much negates any mesmer who burst you from stealth. If you are using shadow step or Roll for init 1 skill does it.

that is the thing it doesn’t

i broke 1st stun countless times and still couldn’t activate withdraw because even though it doesn’t state it, it does have miniscule cast time (hence why you can’t use it while stunned)… with the stun spam, gl getting it off

besides why would i use withdraw if i am still at full HP?

Happicakes.2054:

Cynz.9437:

Ok, amuse me: most common mesmer build atm runs confounding suggestion with mantra of distraction. How do you counter that on a class that has no stability while mes is in stealth. I am all ear.

The stun is a big tell in stealth. When stunned, use a stun break and dodge/channeled invulnerability/channeled block.

Edit: I see Morgar got there first.

stun has big tell in stealth? what?

i don’t have invul nor block~

dodge doesn’t save me from getting blinded and reducing my chances to counter mes

Cynz.9437:

Mogar.9216:

Cynz.9437:

Ok, amuse me: most common mesmer build atm runs confounding suggestion with mantra of distraction. How do you counter that on a class that has no stability while mes is in stealth. I am all ear.

Stun breaker + withdraw pretty much negates any mesmer who burst you from stealth. If you are using shadow step or Roll for init 1 skill does it.

that is the thing it doesn’t

i broke 1st stun countless times and still couldn’t activate withdraw because even though it doesn’t state it, it does have miniscule cast time (hence why you can’t use it while stunned)… with the stun spam, gl getting it off

besides why would i use withdraw if i am still at full HP?

Happicakes.2054:

Cynz.9437:

Ok, amuse me: most common mesmer build atm runs confounding suggestion with mantra of distraction. How do you counter that on a class that has no stability while mes is in stealth. I am all ear.

The stun is a big tell in stealth. When stunned, use a stun break and dodge/channeled invulnerability/channeled block.

Edit: I see Morgar got there first.

stun has big tell in stealth? what?

i don’t have invul nor block~

dodge doesn’t save me from getting blinded and reducing my chances to counter mes

Sorry, I could have been more clear on that (made an edit to try to clear it up a bit). If you are getting stunned when a mes is in stealth, that means the burst is coming hot on its heels. Assuming that stun is from mantra of distraction, there is a telltale sound and animation which is a dead giveaway. Use a stun break, and evade/dodge. If quick you will avoid the whole burst (good timing is absolutely crucial). As for blind, use AA to clear and then press on. I would also recommend trying to match stealth for stealth as well. You can always wait the Mesmer out (assuming D/P, not viable in other instances).

Happicakes.2054:

Cynz.9437:

Mogar.9216:

Cynz.9437:

Ok, amuse me: most common mesmer build atm runs confounding suggestion with mantra of distraction. How do you counter that on a class that has no stability while mes is in stealth. I am all ear.

Stun breaker + withdraw pretty much negates any mesmer who burst you from stealth. If you are using shadow step or Roll for init 1 skill does it.

that is the thing it doesn’t

i broke 1st stun countless times and still couldn’t activate withdraw because even though it doesn’t state it, it does have miniscule cast time (hence why you can’t use it while stunned)… with the stun spam, gl getting it off

besides why would i use withdraw if i am still at full HP?

Happicakes.2054:

Cynz.9437:

Ok, amuse me: most common mesmer build atm runs confounding suggestion with mantra of distraction. How do you counter that on a class that has no stability while mes is in stealth. I am all ear.

The stun is a big tell in stealth. When stunned, use a stun break and dodge/channeled invulnerability/channeled block.

Edit: I see Morgar got there first.

stun has big tell in stealth? what?

i don’t have invul nor block~

dodge doesn’t save me from getting blinded and reducing my chances to counter mes

If you are getting stunned when a mes is in stealth, that means the burst is coming hot on its heels. Use a stunbreak, and evade/dodge. If quick, you will avoid the whole burst. As for blind, use AA to clear and then press on. I would also recommend trying to match stealth for stealth as well. You can always wait the Mesmer out (assuming D/P, not viable in other instances).

If the Mes is smart, the stun will come just as the Mirror Blade connects, leaving the target no time to react. You could always burst from stealth, but an easy stun that also synergizes with another trait for more damage has pushed the ease of landing it over the top. Let’s not forget PU, which allows you to easily ambush your target.

Cynz.9437:

Sorel.4870:

Cynz.9437:

Here is the joke: i did ask top mes how to counter them. Answer was: you can’t.

And if you think that mesmers are epitome of balance atm, then i think it would be just fair that thieves for example would get 2 sec invul on every steal, backstab woud be ranged aoe and had no positional requirements, basi venom had multiple charges not wasted upon 1 hit and would stip stab, shadowshot should be unavoidable.

Sounds totally balanced doesn’t _it? (HELLO MODS WHY NORMAL ENGLISH LIKE “DOESN’T I T” gets censored or are we not allowed to use normal form of english anymore?)

Play Improvisation instead of Executioner.

If you really want to win against mesmers by hitting your head on the keyboard like you used to, run SD. The problem is, you’ll lose against everything that’s not a mesmer.

Frankly, if you were an engineer or a necro, I would have told you to just not attack them. But come on, as a thief? It’s not faceroll easy like prepatch, so adapt.

Improvisation helps to get things like withdraw back EXCEPT YOU WON’T EVEN GET CHANCE TO USE WITHDRAW BECAUSE OF STUN SPAM.

Do you really think, that hitting face on keyboard was enough to win vs good mes pre patch? Really? You must have never faced Frosty, Helseth, Supcutie, George etc.

Thieves weren’t faceroll pre patch, yes they were in decent spot but hardly faceroll. Please name me a commonly used build pre patch that thief had same footing against (besides mes and power ranger). The only reason thieves ever got spot on teams and still have it is their mobility but by no means they were any good vs most common builds in 1v1 nor they were THAT amazing in team fights. This is far from faceroll by definition.

Please prooooove me how thieves were faceroll, please. I would love to hear it. It gets thrown around so much and yet every single idiot i knew that switched to thief crying they are OP and faceroll was crying day later about how absolutely unrewarding and hard to play thief is.
Not to forget all the cries when team ended up with more than 1 thief. OMG 2 thieves, we lost, OMG 3 thieves!!!?? I am afk. <<<This was common thing. Thieves were totally faceroll yo.

And don’t throw your crappy “adapt” at me. I been adapting after every nerf to the class that happend almost every single patch for years.

I didn’t say that thief was faceroll pre-patch (even it was easier than mesmer). I said it was faceroll easy to win against power mesmers. And it was. I main thief just like you, so I should know. Sure, Helseth would have beaten me, and every other good mesmers. But the skill gap between the mesmer and the thief had to be huge.

So yeah. Adapt. I know I have.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Happicakes.2054:

Cynz.9437:

Mogar.9216:

Cynz.9437:

Ok, amuse me: most common mesmer build atm runs confounding suggestion with mantra of distraction. How do you counter that on a class that has no stability while mes is in stealth. I am all ear.

Stun breaker + withdraw pretty much negates any mesmer who burst you from stealth. If you are using shadow step or Roll for init 1 skill does it.

that is the thing it doesn’t

i broke 1st stun countless times and still couldn’t activate withdraw because even though it doesn’t state it, it does have miniscule cast time (hence why you can’t use it while stunned)… with the stun spam, gl getting it off

besides why would i use withdraw if i am still at full HP?

Happicakes.2054:

Cynz.9437:

Ok, amuse me: most common mesmer build atm runs confounding suggestion with mantra of distraction. How do you counter that on a class that has no stability while mes is in stealth. I am all ear.

The stun is a big tell in stealth. When stunned, use a stun break and dodge/channeled invulnerability/channeled block.

Edit: I see Morgar got there first.

stun has big tell in stealth? what?

i don’t have invul nor block~

dodge doesn’t save me from getting blinded and reducing my chances to counter mes

If you are getting stunned when a mes is in stealth, that means the burst is coming hot on its heels. Use a stunbreak, and evade/dodge. If quick, you will avoid the whole burst. As for blind, use AA to clear and then press on. I would also recommend trying to match stealth for stealth as well. You can always wait the Mesmer out (assuming D/P, not viable in other instances).

If the Mes is smart, the stun will come just as the Mirror Blade connects, leaving the target no time to react. You could always burst from stealth, but an easy stun that also synergizes with another trait for more damage has pushed the ease of landing it over the top. Let’s not forget PU, which allows you to easily ambush your target.

Good points there. My personal preference is why waste the stun when the damage is going to happen without warning (a proper burst is very fast – about .5 seconds when performed/timed right). But PU being what it is makes anticipation much harder (Best way to tell if you Mes opponent is running it is to get a look at their boons coming out of stealth/if they have boons like protection/regen/swiftness, chances are they are running PU. Plan accordingly thereafter).

The only time I use the Stun/Shatter combo is when I am not in stealth (or feeling very salty) and need to ensure the burst. Stealth is already enough of an advantage to not need the stun in most cases (good way to tell your FotM Mes apart from a more experienced one though).

You’re asking on how to counter something OP..

It wouldnt be OP if you could counter it while being viable in Conquest..

Wow, this is the best post I have seen in a long time.
Now please don’t turn it into another whining/accusation fest.

@OP:

There are only two broken things right now. dd ele and Mesmer. Both need to be toned down.

I personally do not have a problem with much else currently.

Mesmer and d/d ele are completely broken right now. There’s no counter other than outnumbering them. It’s been a month, top players have figured this out.

Rampage may be too good, but it’s not game-breaking like mesmer and d/d ele. Burning stacking is cheesy and needs fixed, but it’s not game-breaking. I don’t know why people are asking to nerf engineers (other then when Grenadier was bugged).

Exedore.6320:

Mesmer and d/d ele are completely broken right now. There’s no counter other than outnumbering them. It’s been a month, top players have figured this out.

Rampage may be too good, but it’s not game-breaking like mesmer and d/d ele. Burning stacking is cheesy and needs fixed, but it’s not game-breaking. I don’t know why people are asking to nerf engineers (other then when Grenadier was bugged).

we are lucky players cant build golems outside wvw

Salamander.2504:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

…We are better off changing the minds of others and maby prevent misinformation bieng spread and become the next kitten necromancers. which is relative but it’s generally considered a heavily nerfed class, not something i agree with in full but then again, i don’t play necro often.

Necro is in a great spot at the moment, actually.

Define “great spot.” The cele signet build is decent, but outside of that I don’t see it. Scepter, axe, and focus are pretty much dead, and getting out of focus fire is still impossible. Everything is also still incredibly slow, dagger 2 life siphon, and dagger 3 dark pact still need buff in cast times for what they do on their cds. Also, still bottom tier in pve after such an incredibly long time. Chill of death and down state damage traits still exist, and should be deleted and replaced with more useful less cheesy buffs to other skills and traits. Then consider lowering necros health pool because it is too hard to balance across multiple skill levels of play.

As for the topic, winning against mesmers and elementalists just requires you too outplay them. Land more of your skills than they land of theirs. Avoid the big bursts from shatters, greatswords, and burning. Try to get them to blow through their cds as fast as possible. If your a necro, run through the eles fire field a few times and send it back to them.

Nerf everything… starting with Thief & Warriors. XD

It might be a bit biased being a Warrior main, but I do believe Warriors are very close to a spot where they probably do not need any real adjustments. Rampage is what is keeping us in matches and netting us kills.

Nerfing the CD to 144 from 120 would be a decent start…however there are other professions that could be toned down as well.

All the Mesmer qq is delicious. Let me drink your tears.

I’m just addressing the op for this first thing. Can we not nerf engi it’s already in a tough spot and nerfing it more will end it’s existence in the game like so https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c&index=13&list=LLDjr-s1I29c8pjSlO_Ejt4A so let’s focus on things that are actually a problem.

Just because you can counter something doesn’t mean that it’s balanced.

Browrain.7346:

All the Mesmer qq is delicious. Let me drink your tears.

Not very constructive, I understand that it might be frustrating to see the same whine fest happening in a thread specifically not meant to happen. However i take it you are a mesmer. Well instead of getting another kitten nerf that is unneeded. We are better off actually looking at said problem. Clearly you disagree with most of the ’QQ’’ I do so as well. But bieng all defensive is not going to change anything. The masses are simply going to keep asking for nerfs, And it will happen. There start from scratch with a major balance fix, While those guys who can counter people who are indeed mesmers could have done something about it. Those with viable non meta builds, sometimes even unorthodox did nothing.

warherox.7943:

Just because you can counter something doesn’t mean that it’s balanced.

But if you are countering the very thing that is supposed to be ’’OP’’ if you get rid of the thing that is such a dread it kinda doesn’t become OP anymore. If more people with unorthodox builds or non meta builds provide builds capable of countering the mesmer and elementalist, while at the same time don’t have a massive inherent advantage over other classes. Such as mine guardian which simply get’s his face kicked in by cc orientated axe/shield warrior with berserker stance. The opinion will change, I know they are more people that actually have sucesses against rampage warriors, burn guardians, mesmers and elementalists. And thier builds do no nessisarily need to be focused solely on countering the meta if you can call it a meta at that. But they simply are viable. thier win-rate post and pre patch hasn’t changed drastically.

Till now, nobody seems to have tested my build or commented on it, I haven’t been asked to play a few duels, or asked to play in a few matches. No questions asked whatsoever.

Guys I’m trying to give you guys an hand in here. this build seems to be working for me. Test it out, ask questions, point out it’s flaws.

The’re several threads in which u can whine. let’s be positive for a change.

I’m on EU server btw(Seafarers Rest)

People often sound like ‘’mesmers are bad, and should feel bad’’ when it comes to these forums, and suddenly all the good mesmers prepatch are considered brainless kittens now even when they win.

You should leave these forums OP you’re still pure, you might catch a disease or something here.

I agree we mesmers need a nerf, but we’re not that rediculous, we just have no counterplay to our stealth and that should be fixed pronto, we’ve always had quick burst which should stay for the sake of sharing roles with thieves in conquest. Anything more than this would be asking for mesmers to become free kills again.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Till now, nobody seems to have tested my build or commented on it, I haven’t been asked to play a few duels, or asked to play in a few matches. No questions asked whatsoever.

Guys I’m trying to give you guys an hand in here. this build seems to be working for me. Test it out, ask questions, point out it’s flaws.

The’re several threads in which u can whine. let’s be positive for a change.

I’m on EU server btw(Seafarers Rest)

#eliteanswer

Mediocre because it’s not Meta.

:D

Here is the problem with all suggestions posted so far: to be able to have same footing with mesmer you have to be some kind of mix of ele warrior necro and thief… or play mesmer.

Browrain.7346:

All the Mesmer qq is delicious. Let me drink your tears.

Wu…wut? i could’nt hear cuz i’m still slurping over yours,….. engineer. XD Slurp!

The fact is pretty simple: Can a single character defeat in less than 3 seconds another single character? If the answer is yes, there’s something wrong with that character’s build that is to be fixed.

MithranArkanere.8957:

The fact is pretty simple: Can a single character defeat in less than 3 seconds another single character? If the answer is yes, there’s something wrong with that character’s build that is to be fixed.

I see that as a blessing, if guild wars 2 didn’t have all this crazy damage it wouldn’t have any excitement in watching it, I played through a meta that was all about defense in attrition in this game’s past, it was horror.

As long as you know what you’re doing there’s a good chance you wont be getting bursted to death in 3 seconds unless you’re caught totally offguard. The players with this crazy damage are usually very glassy and have a ton of weaknesses in exchange, mesmers simply doesn’t have that many counters and thats the main issue.

MithranArkanere.8957:

The fact is pretty simple: Can a single character defeat in less than 3 seconds another single character? If the answer is yes, there’s something wrong with that character’s build that is to be fixed.

This is a pointless way to go about – you can make a full offensive d/d signet thief that can kill another zerker in 1 second but can do nothing useful for 30s. This build is by no means ‘broken’ or we’d see it more often.

Mesmer on the other hand has their main burst every 11 seconds and can still be useful in between.

It’s mostly ppl that aren’t good at the game that constantly whine and cry for nerfs….

I’m pretty happy with the current meta and even the “weakest” classes aren’t that far away from the “strongest” ones.

The only thing I don’t like is when stuff gets dumbed down and when the skillcap of certain classes gets lowered and currently that is only the case with mesmer, confounding suggestions to be precise: It rewards using mantra of distraction just as a stun whenever you feel like it and ppl often pick mental anguish instead of powerblock, which basically is swapping a trait with one of the highest skillcaps with one that is incredibly easy to use thanks to confounding suggestions.

Simple solution is that conounding suggestions only stuns when you interrupt a skill, which would help to balance mesmer and make it harder and more rewarding to play.

If you want nothing nerfed, then you don’t want anything buffed either and therefore everything is totally balanced. Since everything is balanced then, why do you want to discuss special strategies of dealing with certain builds? It should be as clear as the balance on how to deal with everything.

Nassau.6713:

If you want nothing nerfed, then you don’t want anything buffed either and therefore everything is totally balanced. Since everything is balanced then, why do you want to discuss special strategies of dealing with certain builds? It should be as clear as the balance on how to deal with everything.

Because there is a difference in having balanced classes and builds. There is Always a certain meta or group of builds that are viable. or that counter other builds.

Balance by definition=/=equal builds. in games such as these there is Always a certain kind of meta or group of builds with several branches of said builds that are viable in the competetive scene. I feel that the problems lies more with builds, then actual balancing. I feel most of the issues can be resolved by looking creating builds appropiate with the most recent balance patch. Builds that do not get you 50 frigging stacks of burning rewarding you with 50 k burn damage, or somehow bieng required to use 2 or 3 people to kill a single elementalist. or getting 20 k mesmer bursted just like that or somehow bieing at the mercy of constant stuns. even tough the average mesmer has 2 to 3 daze’s and maby 1 perhaps 2 additional cc skills. spread over 2 weapon sets. When i hear stories like that i think this goes beyond simple balance issues.

I’m not against balance, I’m agains unneeded balance due lots of QQ: nerf classes in full, and stuff like that. people suggest for mesmer to not even have stealth. That’s like asking for a warrior to not use a friggin hammer. Or like a guardian to not use aegis.

I’m against ridiculous shavings like that.

BTW why are you guys doing the very kitten thing I wish to prevent? So far only 2 other people volunteerd to showcase thier builds.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Nassau.6713:

If you want nothing nerfed, then you don’t want anything buffed either and therefore everything is totally balanced. Since everything is balanced then, why do you want to discuss special strategies of dealing with certain builds? It should be as clear as the balance on how to deal with everything.

Because there is a difference in having balanced classes and builds. There is Always a certain meta or group of builds that are viable. or that counter other builds.

Balance by definition=/=equal builds. in games such as these there is Always a certain kind of meta or group of builds with several branches of said builds that are viable in the competetive scene. I feel that the problems lies more with builds, then actual balancing. I feel most of the issues can be resolved by looking creating builds appropiate with the most recent balance patch. Builds that do not get you 50 frigging stacks of burning rewarding you with 50 k burn damage, or somehow bieng required to use 2 or 3 people to kill a single elementalist. or getting 20 k mesmer bursted just like that or somehow bieing at the mercy of constant stuns. even tough the average mesmer has 2 to 3 daze’s and maby 1 perhaps 2 additional cc skills. spread over 2 weapon sets. When i hear stories like that i think this goes beyond simple balance issues.

I’m not against balance, I’m agains unneeded balance due lots of QQ: nerf classes in full, and stuff like that. people suggest for mesmer to not even have stealth. That’s like asking for a warrior to not use a friggin hammer. Or like a guardian to not use aegis.

I’m against ridiculous shavings like that.

BTW why are you guys doing the very kitten thing I wish to prevent? So far only 2 other people volunteerd to showcase thier builds.

Your words —-→ “I feel that the problem lies more with builds” … “I feel most of the issues can be resolved by looking creating builds appropiate with the most recent balance patch” … let me see if i understand correctly since your english is far from perfect … the solution is to ….nerf? or should the community do ANET’s work and DELIBERATELY pick builds to play that are NOT overpowered? In BOTH cases, you prove that the builds/classes/game/whatever you want to call it, is hugely imbalanced. And rightly so, since it is NOT chess. But also rightly so, the community is asking for NERFS.

Tao.1234:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Till now, nobody seems to have tested my build or commented on it, I haven’t been asked to play a few duels, or asked to play in a few matches. No questions asked whatsoever.

Guys I’m trying to give you guys an hand in here. this build seems to be working for me. Test it out, ask questions, point out it’s flaws.

The’re several threads in which u can whine. let’s be positive for a change.

I’m on EU server btw(Seafarers Rest)

#eliteanswer

Mediocre because it’s not Meta.

:D

Lol, don’t mind me please.

Absolutely pointless post. When you don’t PvP much what are you going on about? You are simply trying to tell us to not complain about the imbalance and issues created by recent patch. Surely, raging is not the answer, but alerting the developers to the fact that certain elements are making a class OP is perfectly reasonable. Please don’t tell me that Burning is just fine. Class balance is required to make the game an enjoyable experience for everyone.

It is not about builds, it is about balance!

BadMed.3846:

….but alerting the developers to the fact that certain elements are making a class OP is perfectly reasonable….

Perfectly reasonable? That would be a first for this forum. ^^’

And that’s exactly the problem: the loudest and most obnoxious whiners are most of the time the ppl that are bad at the game. The more they cry, the worse they are is pretty much the norm. Why?

- good players look for answers in their builds/strategy/gameplay instead of crying.
- good players spend less time on the forums/mapchat and more time playing.
- good players know (especially in GW2) that whining is most often useless, since the patch could be several weeks/months away and they’d rather find an elegant solution instead of whining and getting wrecked until the magic nerfhammer fixes their problems.

Cynz.9437:

Sorel.4870:

Cynz.9437:

Here is the joke: i did ask top mes how to counter them. Answer was: you can’t.

And if you think that mesmers are epitome of balance atm, then i think it would be just fair that thieves for example would get 2 sec invul on every steal, backstab woud be ranged aoe and had no positional requirements, basi venom had multiple charges not wasted upon 1 hit and would stip stab, shadowshot should be unavoidable.

Sounds totally balanced doesn’t _it? (HELLO MODS WHY NORMAL ENGLISH LIKE “DOESN’T I T” gets censored or are we not allowed to use normal form of english anymore?)

Play Improvisation instead of Executioner.

If you really want to win against mesmers by hitting your head on the keyboard like you used to, run SD. The problem is, you’ll lose against everything that’s not a mesmer.

Frankly, if you were an engineer or a necro, I would have told you to just not attack them. But come on, as a thief? It’s not faceroll easy like prepatch, so adapt.

Improvisation helps to get things like withdraw back EXCEPT YOU WON’T EVEN GET CHANCE TO USE WITHDRAW BECAUSE OF STUN SPAM.

Do you really think, that hitting face on keyboard was enough to win vs good mes pre patch? Really? You must have never faced Frosty, Helseth, Supcutie, George etc.

Thieves weren’t faceroll pre patch, yes they were in decent spot but hardly faceroll. Please name me a commonly used build pre patch that thief had same footing against (besides mes and power ranger). The only reason thieves ever got spot on teams and still have it is their mobility but by no means they were any good vs most common builds in 1v1 nor they were THAT amazing in team fights. This is far from faceroll by definition.

Please prooooove me how thieves were faceroll, please. I would love to hear it. It gets thrown around so much and yet every single idiot i knew that switched to thief crying they are OP and faceroll was crying day later about how absolutely unrewarding and hard to play thief is.
Not to forget all the cries when team ended up with more than 1 thief. OMG 2 thieves, we lost, OMG 3 thieves!!!?? I am afk. <<<This was common thing. Thieves were totally faceroll yo.

And don’t throw your crappy “adapt” at me. I been adapting after every nerf to the class that happend almost every single patch for years.

Well, thieves have always consistently face rolled their way through QQ forum posts for years. So you have to give them that at least :)

Customer feedback is reaction to the what they get served. Best to face the reality. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Rage is extreme, complaining is perfectly OK. Each to their own I guess.

I don’t believe that being constructive around obvious imbalance is reasonable either. Nerf this, nerf that is for developers to consider and calling for it is expected in the forums.