Nerf this, nerf that
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I don’t believe that being constructive around obvious imbalance is reasonable either. Nerf this, nerf that is for developers to consider and calling for it is expected in the forums.
While I would agree, looking at most of the threads on the forums (any forums), it seems most people are incapable of telling what is OP, and the threads that do have constructive feedback seemed to get drowned in tears.
As long as people keep saying “Jimmy must be nerfed!” and they don’t say why Jimmy is overpowered or overexaggerate Jimmy, making him into a 6 legged and 14 armed monster capable of Karate and Pencak Silat while wrestling with crocodiles – I am inclined to say that the OP is reasonable within his own rights of asking people to explain the counters to what is OP, or what the strength is, so you can mitigate the power.
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On my thief, I still beat most elementalists and rangers I fight, so I don’t understand this thing about them being over powered.
Anyways, the thing I’d suggest is to pay attention closely when these Mesmer do their bursts. For example: duel some good Mesmer 1v1 and see how they burst you down. Everything has a weakness, and a flaw. For most mesmers, they have a very predictable pattern of attacking, and often they will do the same types of things just before their burst.
It does take practice though, don’t get me wrong. Who knows, I might just be terrible once I get back to the game since I’ve been away for a month. Focus less on how angry you are about them beating you up, and focus on how and why they are beating you up. People say that if they are too fast it is impossible to avoid the burst but, if they burst in such a small amount of time, you would virtually be able to avoid all damage by dodging a couple of times. Time your stunbreaks, those will stop Mesmer dead in their tracks.
@Cynz
1. You need to chill bruh.
2. Stealth. Sooo much stealth. I play D/P thief and even when I can’t kill the mesmers I can distract them and put them off of the objective. And with the daze on steals trick and revealed training trait you can hit 5k+ stabs
If you want nothing nerfed, then you don’t want anything buffed either and therefore everything is totally balanced. Since everything is balanced then, why do you want to discuss special strategies of dealing with certain builds? It should be as clear as the balance on how to deal with everything.
Because there is a difference in having balanced classes and builds. There is Always a certain meta or group of builds that are viable. or that counter other builds.
Balance by definition=/=equal builds. in games such as these there is Always a certain kind of meta or group of builds with several branches of said builds that are viable in the competetive scene. I feel that the problems lies more with builds, then actual balancing. I feel most of the issues can be resolved by looking creating builds appropiate with the most recent balance patch. Builds that do not get you 50 frigging stacks of burning rewarding you with 50 k burn damage, or somehow bieng required to use 2 or 3 people to kill a single elementalist. or getting 20 k mesmer bursted just like that or somehow bieing at the mercy of constant stuns. even tough the average mesmer has 2 to 3 daze’s and maby 1 perhaps 2 additional cc skills. spread over 2 weapon sets. When i hear stories like that i think this goes beyond simple balance issues.
I’m not against balance, I’m agains unneeded balance due lots of QQ: nerf classes in full, and stuff like that. people suggest for mesmer to not even have stealth. That’s like asking for a warrior to not use a friggin hammer. Or like a guardian to not use aegis.
I’m against ridiculous shavings like that.
BTW why are you guys doing the very kitten thing I wish to prevent? So far only 2 other people volunteerd to showcase thier builds.
Your words —--> “I feel that the problem lies more with builds” … “I feel most of the issues can be resolved by looking creating builds appropiate with the most recent balance patch” … let me see if i understand correctly since your english is far from perfect … the solution is to ….nerf? or should the community do ANET’s work and DELIBERATELY pick builds to play that are NOT overpowered? In BOTH cases, you prove that the builds/classes/game/whatever you want to call it, is hugely imbalanced. And rightly so, since it is NOT chess. But also rightly so, the community is asking for NERFS.
Dude listen, I’m not asking anybody to do to do A-net’s work. I’m asking you and anybody else to adapt. that’s all. A net made balance changes, No this was a complete overhaul, of the pvp scene, no, not just the pvp scene, pve and wvw as well. If that’s case you cannot merely expect the classes to work in the excact same way they did pre patch right? So what do you have to do? U start from scratch and create builds that allow you to function with this patch. It has already begun, A new meta is bieng created right before our very eyes, as we are speaking. I will again go to the examples such as getting 50 kittening stacks of burning or, getting perma stunned 20 k bursted by mesmers. That in my eyes is something that lies on you mostly. I’m not asking the burn guardians or mesmers tone down thier builds, No I’m asking them to communicate with the players that feel that they are going down under the weight and perhaps discuss the possibility of new builds capable of bieng viable in the current pvp scene, even against mesmers and elementalists. Who I for the love of god can’t see what the big problem is with.
And How the hell do I prove that the builds are overpowered? U are picking and choosing here, It’s circular reasoning. The question here is. Overpowered Builds or Is your build simply not good enough,? Bluntly said ofcourse. And not meant to be an insult. When you know that post patch burns are now intensity stacked and conditions as a whole are easier to apply. U actually do something about it. Not try the same thing you did as before and expect it to work? Then don’t come crying about 50 stacks of burning when A-Net announced this already. You all knew things were gonna change.
And asking for mesmers to not have stealth, or 25 to sometimes even 50 kittening percent damage shaving on runes or mesmer shatter. Is something I will never agree. So don’t come with this rightfully asking for nerfs. Some or most of them are just ridiculous and sometimes aren’t even constructive but litterally a rant thread. Not even explaining how stuff needs to be nerfed. No sorry I cannot get behind that. And that is the majority of threads u see floating around here. Yes that is righteous.
Well, Anet did an overhaul, but I doubt they did enough tests.
There are actually 2 problems regarding that overhaul.
1st is how Power scale in % damage against other players.
I personally would vote for toning down the %, because it is not fun to kill people with just few swings no matter what build they have.
And also, Burn intensity should be toned down a bit, because it makes other conditions pretty much worthless.
Burn does stack much faster than Bleed and hit much harder. Despite the cooldown, which is irrelevant due to cooldown on condition removal skills on majority of builds, it’s far superior in every aspect than Bleed or even Torment.
Confusion condition also need a toning down, despite being available the most for Engineers and Mesmers, the intensity is also way above the board.
Regarding Confusion I would suggest to bring it down to retaliation level, where you get a fixed max damage per skill usage.
Suspended for telling Like it is.
Anet gave birth to Gw2 – Anet killed Gw2.
Murican law 2015.
Anet gave birth to Gw2 – Anet killed Gw2.
Murican law 2015.
Absolutely pointless post. When you don’t PvP much what are you going on about? You are simply trying to tell us to not complain about the imbalance and issues created by recent patch. Surely, raging is not the answer, but alerting the developers to the fact that certain elements are making a class OP is perfectly reasonable. Please don’t tell me that Burning is just fine. Class balance is required to make the game an enjoyable experience for everyone.
It is not about builds, it is about balance!
Wait how in the world can you twist this around? It’s very fact that a regular Joe like me, not only me, but friends, and people I play against, Even on this forums while not the majority they are posters who simply don’t agree with most of the nerfs the community is crying out about.. I tough I made myself clear,time and time again. I’m not against nerfs by default. I’m against unneeded huge shaving as a result of community QQ. You all know that a meta is bound to be created and that only a set amount of builds with certain ‘’sub-evolutions’’ of builds will be viable and form the new meta. This is nothing new. I’m asking all of you to actually come together, from both sides and atleast kittening try to come with a kittening solution. A-Net doesn’t hand out nerfs like it’s nothing so it’s going to take some time. And when they do come with nerfs, that include major damage shavings. It will not simply affect mesmers and elementalists. No it will affect all of you. They are tons of people ranting about guardians, warriors, mesmers, elementalists. All kittening classes are bieng ranted upon. Maby something is too weak, Or maby something is too strong. Do you know what’s going to happen? Another kittening pvp section full with QQ about how something is Too kittening OP or too underpowered.
So what am I doing. I thought: Hey, I’m not having so much trouble with the new balance changes, my friends aren’t having so much trouble with the new balance changes, Posters here on this very forum seem to disagree with most of the nerf suggestions or balance suggestions. Why not have those people come forward and showcase thier builds, And as a community we dicuss new builds. You know actually bieng positive for a change and work together instead of we vs them. People actually were so kittening creative to actually make the term Warrior an insult for kitten’s sake. Warriors bieng analagous for QQ’ers. But no, you and most of it missed the point or weren’t receptive for that and turned this thread into another QQ thread. Arguing about balance for the severalth kittening time. Couldn’t even take the time to actually give this thing a chance. While they are several kittening threads in which you could do this. Infact they are bieng created as they speak.
And don’t try to pass this off as me not giving you guys the chance to voice your opinions because I’m now simply voicing mine.
(edited by Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318)
If you want nothing nerfed, then you don’t want anything buffed either and therefore everything is totally balanced. Since everything is balanced then, why do you want to discuss special strategies of dealing with certain builds? It should be as clear as the balance on how to deal with everything.
Because there is a difference in having balanced classes and builds. There is Always a certain meta or group of builds that are viable. or that counter other builds.
Balance by definition=/=equal builds. in games such as these there is Always a certain kind of meta or group of builds with several branches of said builds that are viable in the competetive scene. I feel that the problems lies more with builds, then actual balancing. I feel most of the issues can be resolved by looking creating builds appropiate with the most recent balance patch. Builds that do not get you 50 frigging stacks of burning rewarding you with 50 k burn damage, or somehow bieng required to use 2 or 3 people to kill a single elementalist. or getting 20 k mesmer bursted just like that or somehow bieing at the mercy of constant stuns. even tough the average mesmer has 2 to 3 daze’s and maby 1 perhaps 2 additional cc skills. spread over 2 weapon sets. When i hear stories like that i think this goes beyond simple balance issues.
I’m not against balance, I’m agains unneeded balance due lots of QQ: nerf classes in full, and stuff like that. people suggest for mesmer to not even have stealth. That’s like asking for a warrior to not use a friggin hammer. Or like a guardian to not use aegis.
I’m against ridiculous shavings like that.
BTW why are you guys doing the very kitten thing I wish to prevent? So far only 2 other people volunteerd to showcase thier builds.
Your words —--> “I feel that the problem lies more with builds” … “I feel most of the issues can be resolved by looking creating builds appropiate with the most recent balance patch” … let me see if i understand correctly since your english is far from perfect … the solution is to ….nerf? or should the community do ANET’s work and DELIBERATELY pick builds to play that are NOT overpowered? In BOTH cases, you prove that the builds/classes/game/whatever you want to call it, is hugely imbalanced. And rightly so, since it is NOT chess. But also rightly so, the community is asking for NERFS.
Dude listen, I’m not asking anybody to do to do A-net’s work. I’m asking you and anybody else to adapt. that’s all. A net made balance changes, No this was a complete overhaul, of the pvp scene, no, not just the pvp scene, pve and wvw as well. If that’s case you cannot merely expect the classes to work in the excact same way they did pre patch right? So what do you have to do? U start from scratch and create builds that allow you to function with this patch. It has already begun, A new meta is bieng created right before our very eyes, as we are speaking. I will again go to the examples such as getting 50 kittening stacks of burning or, getting perma stunned 20 k bursted by mesmers. That in my eyes is something that lies on you mostly. I’m not asking the burn guardians or mesmers tone down thier builds, No I’m asking them to communicate with the players that feel that they are going down under the weight and perhaps discuss the possibility of new builds capable of bieng viable in the current pvp scene, even against mesmers and elementalists. Who I for the love of god can’t see what the big problem is with.
And How the hell do I prove that the builds are overpowered? U are picking and choosing here, It’s circular reasoning. The question here is. Overpowered Builds or Is your build simply not good enough,? Bluntly said ofcourse. And not meant to be an insult. When you know that post patch burns are now intensity stacked and conditions as a whole are easier to apply. U actually do something about it. Not try the same thing you did as before and expect it to work? Then don’t come crying about 50 stacks of burning when A-Net announced this already. You all knew things were gonna change.
And asking for mesmers to not have stealth, or 25 to sometimes even 50 kittening percent damage shaving on runes or mesmer shatter. Is something I will never agree. So don’t come with this rightfully asking for nerfs. Some or most of them are just ridiculous and sometimes aren’t even constructive but litterally a rant thread. Not even explaining how stuff needs to be nerfed. No sorry I cannot get behind that. And that is the majority of threads u see floating around here. Yes that is righteous.
I refer you to my previous post which you didn’t understand at all, so …. the end
It’s been a month since the big patch. The initial overreactions are done. The things which people still complain about are probably overpowered.
Kirrena Rosenkreutz
I refer you to my previous post which you didn’t understand at all, so …. the end
Yes the end. Because it’s not that you strawmanned me by saying that I’m against any nerf whatsoever right? Or that that I’m asking the community to not use overpowered builds?
No, You like most of the people that replied couldn’t kittening be decent enough to actually do what I’m asking of you. No you had to do the same thing there are litterally dozens of threads about in the pvp section for some kittening reason, which is your freedom. Sure but don’t expect me to not reply to people wrongfully pretending like I’m some A-net asskisser that is against any nerfs or balance change whatsoever. Espically since most of you haven’t even tried out what I suggesed. Pretty easy to talk about nerfs right? While all in all, I’m just asking for the mesmers and elemantalists to reach out and other builds that are supposedly OP. I’ve proven that builds are OP based on a strawman, don’t make me laugh.
The reality is that most people are average players. They want to login, do some fights, and have fun. They are solo queue or sometimes premade. However the low threshold for the build + the high success of the build requires far more coordination and play than most people have. This was akin to the turret engi issue. Anytime you have a class that is low skill rotation but a high success with a difficult counter, you will hear cries of OP.
The key is can you balance around average players while allowing for higher ceilings for talented players?
The reality is that most people are average players. They want to login, do some fights, and have fun. They are solo queue or sometimes premade. However the low threshold for the build + the high success of the build requires far more coordination and play than most people have. This was akin to the turret engi issue. Anytime you have a class that is low skill rotation but a high success with a difficult counter, you will hear cries of OP.
The key is can you balance around average players while allowing for higher ceilings for talented players?
And for that reason. I’m asking people to stick together. reach out and stuff. Which a few did, I’m gratefull for that but, the majority seem to think that I’m just some A-net asskisser that thinks everything is fine as it is. No I’m not some tough love kind of kitten. Infact I too are but a mere average player. At this moment I’m having a friend experiment with necromancer in pvp. And he will soon reveal his build. I will get back to him.
The last sentence is definately something that me think. I’m not sure this is the correct answer but. It seems certain classes like ele’s, necro’s and mesmers are generally percieved to be harder to use classes. One could perhaps make the more likely traits to be used for a potentially strong build, Harder to apply in battle. For example as phantom said. ‘’Only stun when dazed’’ u would still have an ’’OP’’ build but it would be reserved for the people with higher skill caps. U’d kinda have less OP builds running around. But then people will complain that mesmer is too kittening hard to use. the’re are also the average people who might not have a build centered around a certain type of mesmer for example cc- interupt mesmer but due to certain traits bieng now much harder to use. People might find the mesmer completely unusable. the thing is. OP builds while OP still often have quite a lot of traits the majority of players use.
An other way would be for the majority of players to actually know, more and more about the classes and builds that are in the spotlight. If the unknown becomes common knowledge. People will adapt and thus the ’’op’’ builds will be common. And so forth and so forth. Making it harder to jump over that treshold.
Even so, I not intended to focus on balance. U did indeed asked a very good question. I have to give credit where credit is due.
Nerf mesmer, nerf elementalist, nerf burn, nerf rampage, nerf engineers, Nerf everything.
Guys can we just all calm down. and rather discuss how to counter those supposedly OP builds? Can we make a thread in which we dedicate it to discussions of builds and showcase how to counter the current meta? Instead of just crying nerf, Because for the Love of it. I really cannot fathom what the problem is. Mesmers became just a tad bit stronger post patch, elementalist are noticably stronger in terms of damage sustain but still beatable. And the thing is. I’m just rank 60 plus, my winrate is still roughly 50/50. I’m not an high tier player. I do not frequently do pvp. My friends who run warrior, necromancer, ranger do not get thier kitten stomped in. And when they do use the OP classes such as mesmer and elementalist, they still regularly lose to warriors, guardians, rangers. So are we just that good? Or do we all happen to constantly fight against noobs? Or are we just average players who fight players at a variety of levels? We also aren’t a premade team.
The last option seems to be the most plausible. I just don’t get it. When people say how they got 50 kittening k of burn ticks, or got a 20 k burst of mesmer, and got constantly stunned. Or cannot catch the mesmer or lock them down at all,Or somehow can’t kill an elementalist with even 2 or 3 people on point. My question is: What the kitten are you guys doing? Do you not run any condi cleanses, do you not run any resistance or berserker stance? Do you not have any runes that diminish cond duration? Do you not convert condi’s into boons? Do you not have any cc or lockdowns? no immobilize? no chill, weakness or cripple? Do you guys just stand there and take it? Do guys not retreat or go out of line of sight? No you guys cannot all be this bad. I take it the majority of players are just players just like me that play pvp from time to time, maby with friends sometimes.
Yet I and the people I acosiate with, not just friends but also enemiy player, or people i see on hotjoin. aren’t suffering from those 50 k burnthings, perma stealth or a 20 k mesmer burst. or perma blind.
So what do i think that the problem is? The problem mainly lies within the builds. I’m not calling the meta perfect because i’ve seen people who come with constructive critism. for example people suggesting for diamond skin to be resistance based, or perhaps removing stability from rampage. Capping stealth to 5 seconds. I may not agree with all of them. These kind of critisms are way different then idiots actually wishing for a mesmer to not use stealth or to nerf a kitten class in full. I do not want for A-net to be given misinformation and go in with over the top nerfs or balance changes when it’s not needed. Changes like that are quite expensive as they affect the whole game, not just pvp.
So this is what I propose. We showcase our builds. No matter what side you are on. dicuss it weaknesses, it’s pro’s and cons how it stacks up to other classes. I mainly want to classes that are generally considered to suffer from the current ’’meta’’ classes or builds that have trouble with mesmer and elemtalists you are free to join. I welcome every class. Rampage warriors come on out.
Also inb4 i get called out on bieng a mesmer that get’s carried by his build. Well no. Í main guardian as a first, engineer as a sec and mesmer as 3rd option. I have nothing to hide.
Well I will start. And showcase my celestial hybrid guardian.
I’m reaching out to you guys. I’m even willing to test my build against yours, tell u my weaknesses and everything. Spread the word guys. Instead of me bieng a ’’L2P’’ scrub, I will now open myself to scrutiny. and hopefully we can change the community for the better.^^
people already do this dude. people break stuff down all the time.
your post seems reactionary and frantic. cruise through ele, thief ect forums and people most of the time have great arguments and cases for their views. besides trolls and idiots, you are wrong to paint the community in the way you did
Most of the metas seam balanced to me. There are some not horribly op counter builds out there but for the most part good players seem to carry the metas fairly. Rangers almost can’t be hit if they dodge well. Mesmer’s PU allows them strong defense if they time things well also. The elementalist meta is strong but requires some serious skill and focus. These are just examples. The only class that needs help with tourny builds is thief. I have yet to see every build so there may be a truely op non meta build out there.
(I’ve been rotating classes since beta. Currently, I like to play ranger or mesmer)
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Mesmer nerfed, now we need d/d ele…
For all your grandstanding, the forums were right (after the initial reaction).
Kirrena Rosenkreutz
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