Guild Wars 2

What about giving proper buffs to engies and removing this kitten trait ?

Engies are not even dat viable ( condi build wise) but this kitten is so totally no skill related it really freaks me out.

This makes me recall something funny.
I killed a Condi engi on point as a DP thief (he was quite bad). When he dropped to 75% hp he released the group of mines they usually dropbfrom the trait.
A few seconds later, while I was still capping the point, a Hambow came. I started fighting him on point, then he activated Berserker Stance and used Hammer #4 immediately, which knocked me over.
The knock back made me hit a mine. Which procced Incendiary Powder. I took 4k damage (30% of my HP) and died soon afterwards.
Most skilled trait in the game. At least Dhuumfire was given to a class which don’t have a lot of random AoEs…

meanwhile warriors are spamming perma aoe burning and causing burning with every auto attack.

suddenly one 4 second burn to a single target on a 10 second cooldown seems trivial.

Liewec.2896:

meanwhile warriors are spamming perma aoe burning and causing burning with every auto attack.

suddenly one 4 second burn to a single target on a 10 second cooldown seems trivial.

^this

Liewec.2896:

meanwhile warriors are spamming perma aoe burning and causing burning with every auto attack.

suddenly one 4 second burn to a single target on a 10 second cooldown seems trivial.

cough… 7s ….. cough

Flumek.9043:

Liewec.2896:

meanwhile warriors are spamming perma aoe burning and causing burning with every auto attack.

suddenly one 4 second burn to a single target on a 10 second cooldown seems trivial.

cough… 7s ….. cough

Even with 30 in power + runes of balth on the eng it’s still in the war’s favor…

Aberrant.6749:

Flumek.9043:

Liewec.2896:

meanwhile warriors are spamming perma aoe burning and causing burning with every auto attack.

suddenly one 4 second burn to a single target on a 10 second cooldown seems trivial.

cough… 7s ….. cough

Even with 30 in power + runes of balth on the eng it’s still in the war’s favor…

Hambow also isn’t known for being a condi build.

Out of all the current things on the engi that you could ask to be nerfed. There are stronger builds that don’t use that trait though engi doesn’t need a nerf at this point.

Liewec.2896:

meanwhile warriors are spamming perma aoe burning and causing burning with every auto attack.

suddenly one 4 second burn to a single target on a 10 second cooldown seems trivial.

At least with war you know what you have to avoid.

With engies a single 200 damage autoattack ( or hitting a mine, created WHILE DODGING) willl proc a 7 secs 700 dps burning.

Unavoidable.

I’ve had fights where an engi barely hit me, still enough to bring me down thx to IP.

Give engi the damage it needs but this trait needs to be nerfed into uselesness ( or skilled play) like dumbfire.

Larynx.2453:

Aberrant.6749:

Flumek.9043:

Liewec.2896:

meanwhile warriors are spamming perma aoe burning and causing burning with every auto attack.

suddenly one 4 second burn to a single target on a 10 second cooldown seems trivial.

cough… 7s ….. cough

Even with 30 in power + runes of balth on the eng it’s still in the war’s favor…

Hambow also isn’t known for being a condi build.

which is funny because hambows do nearly equivalent burning damage with a 100% burning uptime when fighting on point. Whenever I die with a hambow around the top damage is always burning, usually over 10k.

Anyways, you need to work around incendiary powder. I very rarely see a player actively take into consideration what the trait implies.

I will admit that balthazar is a joke and incredibly broken. I was the first to say so. Incendiary is hardly broken, however. It’s also one of the better designed passives given its short CD and requirement of the player to keep in mind the timing to avoid proccing it on random bullkitten in teamfights.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Larynx.2453:

Aberrant.6749:

Flumek.9043:

Liewec.2896:

meanwhile warriors are spamming perma aoe burning and causing burning with every auto attack.

suddenly one 4 second burn to a single target on a 10 second cooldown seems trivial.

cough… 7s ….. cough

Even with 30 in power + runes of balth on the eng it’s still in the war’s favor…

Hambow also isn’t known for being a condi build.

which is funny because hambows do nearly equivalent burning damage with a 100% burning uptime when fighting on point. Whenever I die with a hambow around the top damage is always burning, usually over 10k.

Anyways, you need to work around incendiary powder. I very rarely see a player actively take into consideration what the trait implies.

I will admit that balthazar is a joke and incredibly broken. I was the first to say so. Incendiary is hardly broken, however. It’s also one of the better designed passives given its short CD and requirement of the player to keep in mind the timing to avoid proccing it on random bullkitten in teamfights.

These are consideration that you make as an engi or rather " what should i do to avoid IP to proc on random kitten".

From your opponent pov there’s literally no counterplay involved.

Talking about wars, even the most broken thing (zerk stance) has counterplay: IP has no counterplay.

Anet did a nice job on other passive kittens like sun spirit and dumbfire, IP should be next.

I know very well engies are not on par even with broken balthazar, still passive crap like IP is not the answer.

Liewec.2896:

meanwhile warriors are spamming perma aoe burning and causing burning with every auto attack.

suddenly one 4 second burn to a single target on a 10 second cooldown seems trivial.

not in the slightest.

while longbow needs to be fixed, IP is still way more broken than warrior’s aoe burn because it effectively overcompensates the engie’s biggest weakness, distance/kiting them.

that and when you have engie using builds that use condi damage/duration making those burns hit twice, or even three times as hard overall as a warrior’s, it’s not so trivialized.

a couple things could be changed to make IP balanced:
lower their range to 600, which makes engie have to leave the safety of their turret/crate cocoon to a degree
-and/or-
provide an animation on shots that will proc IP, giving it counterplay

I’d say if they lower the duration to 2 base seconds it would be OK. Or, they could make it a buff like Incendiary Ammo so that the enemy player could dodge if he is careful enough to keep an eye to the enemy’s status bar.
Worst case scenario, they could also make it proc only on Pistol/Rifle autoattack.
And I play engi too, and I can still kill people without that trait.
People saying that IP “requires skill because you must not waste the proc on random trash” don’t have a clue about what “skilled” means.
“skilled” is using your wrench through a Fire field to proc a (dodge able) Burning, and making sure it connects.
Skilled is not “hit your enemy and watch them melt”.

All procs like IP and Spinal Shivers and all traits like that should come with a buff icon. This would allow more skilled applications of these traits in battle, and also add counter play to them.

The real problem here is Balthazar runes. Fix those and you are almost back on track.

IP is also only ever powerful in a 1 on 1. And as has been said before even then it can proc off random objects. On top of that PvP and especially not WvW is about 1 on 1.

That said, I wouldn’t mind a change to the trait, but only if you give Engineers back the “old” Fragmentation Shot. It got nerfed before because you could stack too many bleeds just kitten ing (wow DE_RPING is foul language now?). By changing IP you take away the only way a condition Engineer can deal damage at range. No Grenades are not an option on a moving and aware target.

Last but not least I must say that compared to how broken Might stacking is at the moment IP looks like kiddy junk.

There is a certain engi on NA that takes max advantage of this trait and is simply unbeatable 1v1 and also extremely useful at mid fight. Gives his team super easy victories.

So yes, this trait has to be nerfed.

Rezz.8019:

There is a certain engi on NA that takes max advantage of this trait and is simply unbeatable 1v1 and also extremely useful at mid fight. Gives his team super easy victories.

So yes, this trait has to be nerfed.

Necro sould slaughter engi. And IP is mostly useless at mid fight.

it is funny, Dhuumfire has been nerfed because it was too easy, no brain etc and devs want it more skillplay.
Engie has a pre nerf Dhummfire as master trait when Dhuumfire is a grand master one but devs don’t really care about.
Where is balance? My main is a necromancer and I don’t even play it in sPvP, i am not really found of being a ping pong ball for other players, now i play my engi has condi bunker it has lot more sustain than my necromancer, can handle 1vs1 and 1vs2 more easily than my necromancer and brings heals and condi removals for my team.

Engineers need a nerf, big time. They have WAY too many toys. Stun, knockbacks, stealth, turrets that nuke you, snare you ,slow you, push you away. It’s just insane.

I see an OP engi in PvP, I don’t even waste my time trying to nuke it.

Silverthorn.8576:

it is funny, Dhuumfire has been nerfed because it was too easy, no brain etc and devs want it more skillplay.
Engie has a pre nerf Dhummfire as master trait when Dhuumfire is a grand master one but devs don’t really care about.
Where is balance? My main is a necromancer and I don’t even play it in sPvP, i am not really found of being a ping pong ball for other players, now i play my engi has condi bunker it has lot more sustain than my necromancer, can handle 1vs1 and 1vs2 more easily than my necromancer and brings heals and condi removals for my team.

Look at the bleeds, torment and fear a necro applies. Now look at the engineers bleed, and torment. Now consider that the engineer have a multitude of ways to apply long burns. Now also consider that burn do not stack in intensity. Now combine the two professions condition damage output and you see why necros after the dhuumfire implementation where a bit silly.

IP is strong as it allows an engineer to have offensive even when going with a P/S and defensive setup.

It actually used to be adept, but they rightfully moved it up a tier.

Rentapest.6503:

Engineers need a nerf, big time.

Nope, it’s just hotjoin heroes like you need L2P.

47% Rentapest.6503 Olivia Venator 23 33 41.07% /facepalm

they should change IP like they did with dhuumfire. its not about being too strong or whatever but that it’s totally passive. you never know when it’s going to proc. and lets be honest who counts the seconds till the next IP proc?

miriforst.1290:

Look at the bleeds, torment and fear a necro applies. Now look at the engineers bleed, and torment. Now consider that the engineer have a multitude of ways to apply long burns. Now also consider that burn do not stack in intensity. Now combine the two professions condition damage output and you see why necros after the dhuumfire implementation where a bit silly.

IP is strong as it allows an engineer to have offensive even when going with a P/S and defensive setup.

It actually used to be adept, but they rightfully moved it up a tier.

Engi can stack bleeding as easily as a necromancer with the right spec and has many sources of confusion.
The reason why Engi does not stack a lot of bleedings is because most of them play condtion bunker and not full burst conditon Engi.

Silverthorn.8576:

Engi can stack bleeding as easily as a necromancer

You dont say.
Engi should rely on heavy RNG and hitting with innacurate skillshots, Necro on the other hand just spam scepter auto. Yeah totally “as easily”.

Shadow of Azrael.1205:

Silverthorn.8576:

Engi can stack bleeding as easily as a necromancer

You dont say.
Engi should rely on heavy RNG and hitting with innacurate skillshots, Necro on the other hand just spam scepter auto. Yeah totally “as easily”.

Randomly spamming conditions on point… Yeah total skillshots.
Engi should definitely not have such access to conditions. They have way more than necro, which is just not the way it’s supposed to be. Necro actually requires skill, condi engi doesn’t.

Rezz.8019:

Necro actually requires skill, condi engi doesn’t.

LOL, since when?

Ostricheggs.3742:

Larynx.2453:

Aberrant.6749:

Flumek.9043:

Liewec.2896:

meanwhile warriors are spamming perma aoe burning and causing burning with every auto attack.

suddenly one 4 second burn to a single target on a 10 second cooldown seems trivial.

cough… 7s ….. cough

Even with 30 in power + runes of balth on the eng it’s still in the war’s favor…

Hambow also isn’t known for being a condi build.

which is funny because hambows do nearly equivalent burning damage with a 100% burning uptime when fighting on point. Whenever I die with a hambow around the top damage is always burning, usually over 10k.

Anyways, you need to work around incendiary powder. I very rarely see a player actively take into consideration what the trait implies.

I will admit that balthazar is a joke and incredibly broken. I was the first to say so. Incendiary is hardly broken, however. It’s also one of the better designed passives given its short CD and requirement of the player to keep in mind the timing to avoid proccing it on random bullkitten in teamfights.

Yeah Incendiary Powder requires a lot of skill cause you have to avoid proccing it on random fights, just like Sun Spirit or Dhuumfire, which you’ve never complained about, right OE?

Fact is Incendiary Powder is a horribly designed trait which should be handled the same way Dhuumfire was.

Rentapest.6503:

Engineers need a nerf, big time. They have WAY too many toys. Stun, knockbacks, stealth, turrets that nuke you, snare you ,slow you, push you away. It’s just insane.

I see an OP engi in PvP, I don’t even waste my time trying to nuke it.

also engis has bad condi clear and stunbreaks. easy to focus down. why noone plays engi on top teams? because it is easy to counter. facerolling warriors is way better. you can play that stupid turret build but it is not viable at high lvl of play. for some reason anet like npc builds and keep buffing them.

Nix.3152:

also engis has bad condi clear and stunbreaks. easy to focus down. why noone plays engi on top teams? because it is easy to counter. facerolling warriors is way better. you can play that stupid turret build but it is not viable at high lvl of play. for some reason anet like npc builds and keep buffing them.

Maybe if we reduce Engineers access to unavoidable RNG burn they can get condi clear and better stunbreaks.

Just to be clear, i fully support removing IP as it is now, playing without it feels refreshing, having to rely on fir field combos or actual skills hitting is refreshing.

What i do not support however is to simply nerf its numbers into oblivion in the sole purpose of never seing it taken again as the title implies, thats just vicious bitter vengance and we really need to be better gamers than simply spouting out nonsense like that about balance problems.

What is needed is remakes that changes the mechanics to be more interesting for both the engineer and the enemy.

Examples could be having mines apply burn on hit (not the invisible trap one obviously), having explosives appy a short burn when blocked (counter bunker countering), remove a boon when applying a burn (on a cooldown), apply vulnerability or deal more damage when hitting a burning foe (to improve hybrids/power specs), firefield finishers apply torment or whatever, foes takes more damage from burn the more vulnerability they have, foes affected by your burns attack or move or recharges skills x% slower. There are bazillion options leaving out rng.

vincecontix.1264:

Liewec.2896:

meanwhile warriors are spamming perma aoe burning and causing burning with every auto attack.

suddenly one 4 second burn to a single target on a 10 second cooldown seems trivial.

^this

plus the permanent luxury advantage of not using any heal skill… not once… never

People love to compare Dhuumfire to IP but completely ignore the fact that Necros were able to apply fire to all nearby foes every 15 seconds! You think that IP is bad with a SINGLE TARGET ONLY burning proc? How about IP times 5 times every 15 seconds in a team fight from just a single necro? So yeah stop mindlessly comparing Dhuumfire on a necro and IP on an engi. The same exact skills can work entirely differently on different professions.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Epidemic

An while we are at it hunting passives, we must make sure we don’t forget these:

Empathic Bond, Hide In Plain Sight, Shared Anguish, Natural Vigour, Companion’s Defence, Last Stand, Healing Signet, Berserker Stance, Adrenal Health, Precise Strikes, Electric Discharge, Diamond Skin, Earth’s Embrace, Soothing Mist, Signet of Restoration, Purity, Virtue Of Justice, Virtue Of Courage, Virtue of Resolve, Sharp Shooter, Backpack Regenerator, Protection Injection, Protective Shield, Transmute, Prismatic Understanding, Mirror Of Anguish, Executioner, Opportunist, Shadow’s Embrace, Feline Grace, Last Gasp, Barbed Precision, etc.

And the list goes on. I’m afraid there won’t be much left to play around with!

I think you could make more of an argument if you based your topic on why you think its overpowered but trying to get it nerfed based on skill when 98% of the skills and traits in this game are skiless makes no sense

This game has too much random bs. How can you counter randomness?

i would like to hear a counterplay to incendiary power, please

it’s like counterplay to steal.

Yolo dodge 4lyfe.

Simon.3794:

i would like to hear a counterplay to incendiary power, please

it’s like counterplay to steal.

Yolo dodge 4lyfe.

Condition transfer for necro/mesmer, zerker stance for warrior, outcleansing for ele/warrior.

Bunker guardians struggle to keep up with application in a 1v1, and will eventually lose the duel, just like they do to every other profession.

Thief, spirit ranger, and power/celestial engi are probably the only builds that can really complain about IP.

That said, IP does feel too mandatory for engineers. Since grenades can’t be reliable at range, engineer honestly has only rifle 1, pistol 3, elixir gun 1, and toolkit 5 that are effective at over 600 range. That’s four total ranged attacks across four different kits/weapons.

That’s good because it forces engineer to be the mid-range (200-500) skirmisher it was designed to be, but it also means it’s extremely easy to kite to death. IP mitigates that weakness, but it is also open to abuse with balthazar runes, etc. Hopefully there’s a better solution somewhere.

Silverthorn.8576:

it is funny, Dhuumfire has been nerfed because it was too easy, no brain etc and devs want it more skillplay.
Engie has a pre nerf Dhummfire as master trait when Dhuumfire is a grand master one but devs don’t really care about.
Where is balance? My main is a necromancer and I don’t even play it in sPvP, i am not really found of being a ping pong ball for other players, now i play my engi has condi bunker it has lot more sustain than my necromancer, can handle 1vs1 and 1vs2 more easily than my necromancer and brings heals and condi removals for my team.

THIS. It is mind boggling that they made such an issue about Dhuumfire and yet IP get’s completely ignored like it doesn’t exist. aNet devs have NO idea how to balance this game.

Big effects are supposed to be tied to clear animations.

All of these extra-procs lower the skill-floor SIGNIFICANTLY.

On-crit procs should have small effects. Offensive procs are WORSE than defensive procs in nature, b/c the reason you get defeated in a fight is tied to getting a bunch of crap loaded onto you that you can’t do anything to play around. At least if my opponent is loading up on defensive procs it’s not killing me and I can still play around what my opponent does offensively.

Loco.4561:

Silverthorn.8576:

it is funny, Dhuumfire has been nerfed because it was too easy, no brain etc and devs want it more skillplay.
Engie has a pre nerf Dhummfire as master trait when Dhuumfire is a grand master one but devs don’t really care about.
Where is balance? My main is a necromancer and I don’t even play it in sPvP, i am not really found of being a ping pong ball for other players, now i play my engi has condi bunker it has lot more sustain than my necromancer, can handle 1vs1 and 1vs2 more easily than my necromancer and brings heals and condi removals for my team.

THIS. It is mind boggling that they made such an issue about Dhuumfire and yet IP get’s completely ignored like it doesn’t exist. aNet devs have NO idea how to balance this game.

Maybe you missed my post just a few post above yours but Dhuumfire on necro is nothing like IP on engineer. IP is single target only while on the necro, using Epidemic, you can spread burning on everyone nearby. This is why Dhuumfire was moved to DS where you can’t access Epidemic readily.

Now can we stop spreading the disinformation that IP on engi is just like Dhuumfire on Necro? It’s just straight out dishonest.

isolatedchimp.2510:

Loco.4561:

Silverthorn.8576:

it is funny, Dhuumfire has been nerfed because it was too easy, no brain etc and devs want it more skillplay.
Engie has a pre nerf Dhummfire as master trait when Dhuumfire is a grand master one but devs don’t really care about.
Where is balance? My main is a necromancer and I don’t even play it in sPvP, i am not really found of being a ping pong ball for other players, now i play my engi has condi bunker it has lot more sustain than my necromancer, can handle 1vs1 and 1vs2 more easily than my necromancer and brings heals and condi removals for my team.

THIS. It is mind boggling that they made such an issue about Dhuumfire and yet IP get’s completely ignored like it doesn’t exist. aNet devs have NO idea how to balance this game.

Maybe you missed my post just a few post above yours but Dhuumfire on necro is nothing like IP on engineer. IP is single target only while on the necro, using Epidemic, you can spread burning on everyone nearby. This is why Dhuumfire was moved to DS where you can’t access Epidemic readily.

Now can we stop spreading the disinformation that IP on engi is just like Dhuumfire on Necro? It’s just straight out dishonest.

The reason Dhuumfire was nerfed has never been related to Epidemic.
Not to mention that Epidemic is totally counterable.

hihey.1075:

The reason Dhuumfire was nerfed has never been related to Epidemic.
Not to mention that Epidemic is totally counterable.

Even if I accept your claim that Epidemic is “totally counterable” (unblockable/recharge 15 seconds), the fact is that engis don’t even have the ability to spread burning from IP to everyone whereas necros do. FACT.

The reason dhuumfire was a problem was b/c it increased necros condi-spread too much, given they already have access to bleeds and torment to do damage.

Engies used to take lots of source of burns, but many top specs have figured out there is no need to take other burning sources as IP does plenty burning on its own, and is undodgeable. Why bother making SACRIFICES in a build when you can have it all?

While I’d also be careful with “nerfing IP into oblivion”, Balthazar runes still remain the root of the problem . The Burning upkeep with those runes is way too high. They need a serious reduction in Burning duration, a maximum of 50% with 6 into Explosives. You should not have access to 7 seconds of burning that easily, not even with a rune set and a sigil.

I’m all for nerfing balth and strength runes, but I totally agree that IP isn’t the problem.

No no no no no no no (we have to go back to the armoury)

IP is not the problem, it’s the runes of balthazar that make it considerably OP and put it on par with condition duration in WvW (with food) but only this time it’s in pvp without food.

Counterplay to IP? There isn’t much to be fair, you can’t dodge it because it will proc on the next thing that crits you dont dodge when it’s not on icd. From I know in engi vs engi fights with limited condi clears, I know that when I see that proc I have to condi cleanse immediately. Or I will be dead.

IP is the biggest source of damage for engineer to kill someone off, if you nerf it to even 2 seconds it takes a away a lot of damage of the condi engineer right now. Just because runes of the balthazar exist!

Change up strenght runes and balthazar runes…. I didn’t hear complaints about IP before the feature patch, so why now suddenly :/

Rezz.8019:

There is a certain engi on NA that takes max advantage of this trait and is simply unbeatable 1v1 and also extremely useful at mid fight. Gives his team super easy victories.

So yes, this trait has to be nerfed.

Which engineer are you talking about o-o

All I see are turret engis these days

God I hate how prevalent turret eng’s are. It’s bad game design to have AI builds be as good as they are. You should lose more to balance the lack of management required Vs. other eng builds.