Guild Wars 2

Hello there!

Basicly am going to explain my logic. Nerfing X cuz Y has no chance against it doesn’t fix anything!

In Guild Wars 1 wich had one of the most insane metas ever nerf was a band aid till the players found a new strategy with new builds.

Basicly Guild Wars 2 is following this trend, i come to the pvp sub-forum just to see a kittenload of “QQ nerf this, to OP!”

You are litteraly ruining the fun of the game by dumb it down.

You make the community! If everyone changes their ways, the game would improve since Anet listens to the community!

I propose that instead of nerfing aspects of the game, we buff the other aspects so that they may reach the so called OP aspects.

Here is a example:

People complain that d/p thiefs are to good… I seen Cry babys asking for nerfs, what if, instead of nerfing one of the few viable builds for thiefs, we buff pistol/pistol for power builds.

Other example:
Zerker eles can deal some nice dmg but their survival is WAY bellow average, Fire magic/Air Magic traits should have more defensive traits/options that fit the rush playstyle that is zerker.

Axe/axe power ranger, have u ever seen one in sPvP or even pve? he was most likely a nub that was trying out the axe,, buffs to this weapons would be very appreciated.

This may not be the best solutions but if we constatly buff the “underpowered” builds to be at a equal foot with the rest, not only we open the builds option has we make the metagame more dynamic.

By not nerfing things that are truly overpowered, but rather buffing some other things, you’re asking for a major power creep.

I agree sometimes people ask for unreasonable nerfs, but it’s important to actually not let things go too far and from time to time there are skills/specs that need to be toned down.

Laraley.7695:

By not nerfing things that are truly overpowered, but rather buffing some other things, you’re asking for a major power creep.

I agree sometimes people ask for unreasonable nerfs, but it’s important to actually not let things go too far and from time to time there are skills/specs that need to be toned down.

Sometimes you are right, like when guardian had god mode elite.

Right now, there isn’t much of OP stuff around when we remenber the realy OP stuff, remenber frenzy+hundred blades one shooting zerker with no downsides?

Sneakier.9460:

People complain that d/p thiefs are to good… I seen Cry babys asking for nerfs, what if, instead of nerfing one of the few viable builds for thiefs, we buff pistol/pistol for power builds.

Thief is a fine example of the real problem and how nerfs (or buffs) don’t solve the real issues, thief has had a lot of nerfs, yet for three years thief has been in pretty much every top team, and yet again at the last WTS there was a thief on each team, the reality is the core design of thief is too good at what it does, even repeated nerfs don’t stop it being from being basically untouchable in its role and a default pick on a team, the truth is the class needs certain things redesigned, same goes for a lot of other things AI for example one of the issues that two of the classes (mesmer/ranger) that struggle most of the time face is having to rely on AI that doesn’t work properly/reliably.

But it seems actually fixing fundamental problems in the game like these (LOL 1 year mid air immob bug) is not the policy, the policy is paper over the cracks.

all profesions should use initiative

There was a point in time where nerf to balance was the answer, now the answer is pretty much search for better balancing devs tbh. Robert Gee seems promising I guess so hopefully for once GW2 powercreep will do something right.

zinkz.7045:

Sneakier.9460:

People complain that d/p thiefs are to good… I seen Cry babys asking for nerfs, what if, instead of nerfing one of the few viable builds for thiefs, we buff pistol/pistol for power builds.

Thief is a fine example of the real problem and how nerfs (or buffs) don’t solve the real issues, thief has had a lot of nerfs, yet for three years thief has been in pretty much every top team, and yet again at the last WTS there was a thief on each team, the reality is the core design of thief is too good at what it does, even repeated nerfs don’t stop it being from being basically untouchable in its role and a default pick on a team, the truth is the class needs certain things redesigned, same goes for a lot of other things AI for example one of the issues that two of the classes (mesmer/ranger) that struggle most of the time face is having to rely on AI that doesn’t work properly/reliably.

But it seems actually fixing fundamental problems in the game like these (LOL 1 year mid air immob bug) is not the policy, the policy is paper over the cracks.

What’s the problem with having a thief in every team? People pick thieves because they are insanely mobile, and you need mobility for fast decaps and +1ing fights. The only real issue is how strong thieves are against mesmers: if the match-up was somewhat balanced, you could pick a mesmer over a thief. But as long as this mobile roamer role exists, thief has a place in the meta, and I think it’s fine.

By the way, guardians are in the meta since the beginning of the game, and so are warriors. They just fit some roles better. I just think rangers and necros should change a bit to be viable in a certain type of team composition, but claiming that thieves should be nerfed because they are meta is a misunderstanding of how conquest works.

Rezzet.3614:

all profesions should use initiative

Give this man a job in the balance team!!

Rezzet.3614:

all profesions should use initiative

Yeah, and have one more mana-based game. No thank you.

Reminder that when everything is OP, it’s not actually balance as many players who are new to MMOs like to believe. I’ve played several games where it’s come to that and it’s awful. It’s always a better idea to nerf than to buff to avoid rampant power creep.

Aktium.9506:

Reminder that when everything is OP, it’s not actually balance as many players who are new to MMOs like to believe. I’ve played several games where it’s come to that and it’s awful. It’s always a better idea to nerf than to buff to avoid rampant power creep.

It depends on what you call a power creep. Sure, when you have to much passive procs (I’m looking at you, spinal shivers/air/fire necro), you can say it’s a power creep. But for example, “nerf Mind Wrack because it deals too much damage” or “nerf stealth” are a type of complain common to players with slow reflexes, and in the end you get one of these numerous MMOs where fights last for hours.

Anet is both scared and undermanned.

With balancing that gives following: If they boost something, it might become right what they don’t want: overpowered, to then nerf again would lower their credibility (weither righteous, or not so).

Secondly look at how they already are ‘to undermanned’ (to keep it friendly) to commit to wvw/pvp/pve split to balancing skills approach. So they only nerf pvp related stuff. Conclusion? Pve builds suffer quite often because of it.

I asked this question many times and 8 months after release, (if i remember correct) Jonathan sharp gave an answer like this: “We definitely do not want to blindly nerf everything, but we must be carefull when approaching with buffs. Buffs might give a domino effect the once you buff on thing, all other things come underpowered and also want a buff till there’s no end. That’s not what we want. Lowering the strongest skillsets is the easiest and most efficient way to follow the path of balance.”

A bit dissapointing to me, but what can you do against it?

Say “no” to the MMO arms race. When you take the approach of buffing the weak stuff to compete with the strongest, some of it inevitably overshadows what was previously strong. In the next iteration, you buff the new weak things (which were previously the strong things) and the cycle continues. It leads to either frustrating one-shot mechanics or boring stalemates.

If something is too strong, it needs nerfed. Identifying which builds are too good isn’t hard; the difficulty is identifying what makes them too good and tuning it properly.

Exedore.6320:

Say “no” to the MMO arms race. When you take the approach of buffing the weak stuff to compete with the strongest, some of it inevitably overshadows what was previously strong. In the next iteration, you buff the new weak things (which were previously the strong things) and the cycle continues. It leads to either frustrating one-shot mechanics or boring stalemates.

If something is too strong, it needs nerfed. Identifying which builds are too good isn’t hard; the difficulty is identifying what makes them too good and tuning it properly.

And with that approach u have the meta being slighty nerf but still being meta because everything else just doesn’t hold its ground against the meta.
Nothing changes except the meta became “slighty more balanced”
clap

Buff everything is just a terrible idea. Yes let’s buff everyone’s offensive and deffensive power by 1000times, so players can one shot gates in wvw and facetank the already weak pve bosses using zerker without dodges.

If you think nerfs/buffs are influenced mainly by people on the forums then you are mistaken. The players discussing topics on the forums is only a small fraction compared to what else is taken into consideration before balancing.

Sneakier.9460:

And with that approach u have the meta being slighty nerf but still being meta because everything else just doesn’t hold its ground against the meta.
Nothing changes except the meta became “slighty more balanced”
clap

Most of the “meta” are the builds which are a little too good because they can do too many things well or do something better than everyone else with less drawbacks. When you tone down what’s a little too powerful, you’ll see a lot of other builds able to compete.

You’re viewing the “meta” as where everyone should be, and that’s your problem. You have to set a balance point, and IMO it’s below where the “meta” level builds are at.

Exedore.6320:

Most of the “meta” are the builds which are a little too good because they can do too many things well or do something better than everyone else with less drawbacks. When you tone down what’s a little too powerful, you’ll see a lot of other builds able to compete.

You don’t understand what meta means. Your description is true only for dd elementalist and MAYBE cele engineer (since condi builds are non-existant lately). But in every meta, some builds are not OP, but just adapted to a strategic role. D/p thieves are not OP, but their mobility and survivability allow them to be good at their role: decapping and bursting low health targets. Similarly, the staff guardian from previous metas wasn’t OP, but it was adapted to the support role.

Many people are confused about that, and that’s why you see all these ridiculous threads asking to nerf every build in the meta, instead of allowing other builds to be useful in those roles.

The reason people are freaked out by the thought of buffs is we get 1 balance patch every 4-6months so anything made ridiculous we’ll be stuck with for ages.

Balance is not just “everything is of equal power” it needs to be constructed around the speed and playability of the game too.

xDudisx.5914:

Buff everything is just a terrible idea. Yes let’s buff everyone’s offensive and deffensive power by 1000times, so players can one shot gates in wvw and facetank the already weak pve bosses using zerker without dodges.

Please, don’t turn off ur brain. Am suggesting buffing underused skills/weapons/traits

“Exedore.6320:
Most of the “meta” are the builds which are a little too good because they can do too many things well or do something better than everyone else with less drawbacks. When you tone down what’s a little too powerful, you’ll see a lot of other builds able to compete.”

Thats the problem, i never seen axe/axe ranger compete at anything!
Pistol/Pistol is more of gimmick than a actual competive set!
And the “meta” got nerfed, and still some sets still weren’t able to compete, at anything!

We should take a logical approach to my suggestion, Anet surely has data about wich skills are used at which game mode.

Am pretty sure that if we look at statistics we will see Weapons/skills with a very small % at sPvP.
If the game is balanced and dynamic, why are some skills being used WAY more than others (ranger/thief wise, am looking at you traps).

Sorel.4870:

and in the end you get one of these numerous MMOs where fights last for hours.

That’s a hyperbole if I ever saw one. You should never ever advocate buffing over nerfing. It will eventually reach a point where fights basically become tic-tac-toe with win-button skills. And that is horrible.

Aktium.9506:

Sorel.4870:

and in the end you get one of these numerous MMOs where fights last for hours.

That’s a hyperbole if I ever saw one. You should never ever advocate buffing over nerfing. It will eventually reach a point where fights basically become tic-tac-toe with win-button skills. And that is horrible.

Haha, because we don’t already have that.

Sorel.4870:

What’s the problem with having a thief in every team? People pick thieves because they are insanely mobile, and you need mobility for fast decaps and +1ing fights. The only real issue is how strong thieves are against mesmers: if the match-up was somewhat balanced, you could pick a mesmer over a thief. But as long as this mobile roamer role exists, thief has a place in the meta, and I think it’s fine.

By the way, guardians are in the meta since the beginning of the game, and so are warriors. They just fit some roles better. I just think rangers and necros should change a bit to be viable in a certain type of team composition, but claiming that thieves should be nerfed because they are meta is a misunderstanding of how conquest works.

Erm it is called balance, there are 8 soon to be 9 classes, that one is a default pick is hugely imbalanced, and you obviously missed my point, nerfing thief is not the answer, that is Anet’s answer and all it has done is make thief weak in other ways without actually addressing the core issues, I said some things need to be redesigned, the basic design of thief is unbalanceable.

Laraley.7695:

Haha, because we don’t already have that.

Only mildly compared to a lot of MMOs.