Obviously insanely Op when combined with low cd elites. I doubt this was envisaged as being a possibility by the game designers.
Options:
1, Add ICD of 70 seconds
2, Make it so it doesnt give stability
3, Make it so it only removes 3 conditions on use
These would all be cool.
To those who think it is fair. Consider this:
So you think a 45 cooldown skill which does the following is balanced:
1, Gives you every boon in the game (inc stab) for 5 seconds
2, Cures all conditions on you
3, Gives you the ability to stun a target the next time you hit him.
4, Cast time 1 second
Look at signet of stamina. 1 of those effects on 60s cd. Look at save youselves. Not even 1 of those effects on the same cooldown.
Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.
A cooldown of greater then 60 seconds would be fine but not changing the number of conditions it cleanses. Plenty of builds use elites with timers greater then 70 Isec internal cooldown you propose for Lyssa runes. I am not going to use a rune set to be able to cleanse 3 conditions every 90 seconds.
Obviously insanely Op when combined with low cd elites. I doubt this was envisaged as being a possibility by the game designers.
Options:
1, Add ICD of 70 seconds
2, Make it so it doesnt give stability
3, Make it so it only removes 3 conditions on use
These would all be cool.
Necro = the counter to lyssa runes.
They nerfed corrupt boon and it made the runes of the lyssa 10x better as a result. So maybe they should change it to give just 5 boons and not all 8? To be in line with other changes.
Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.
Nerfing runes of Lyssa in any of the ways suggested would only nerf warriors (who have the lowest cooldown on their elite: 48s when traited for faster recharge of signets).
Are warriors dominating in tpvp? No.
Are warriors still having trouble surviving in a condi-spam meta? Yes.
Also, as someone said, the increase of necros players in the meta means that using Lyssa runes can actually hurt you quite badly since corrupt boon/well of corruption = lots of new condis on you
Thieves can steal boons with larcenous strike + bountiful theft which means using Lyssa runes is also a liability since since you are effectively buffing your opponent.
Warriors do more damage vs boon spam with destruction of the empowered
These are just some examples of why using Lyssa runes can actually hurt you. There is a certain amount of risk & reward that need to be balanced, and Lyssa runes offer many risks.
Kharr that’s incorrect Thieves have the lowest cd elite (basil venom 36s traited) and Lyssa’s recharge is above that so it hardly matters. The rune set is fine.
Team Radioactive
Crysis, Lil Damage, Ovi, Jindavikk, Guard
Causing cancer all day.
Make conditions not a primary source of dmg for most any class that wants it to be…
Then you can kitten with Lyssa…
Untill then conditions are way too powerful, and cleansing is so kittening necessary that runes of Lyssa are the only thing holding a number of builds together.
Nerfing runes of Lyssa in any of the ways suggested would only nerf warriors (who have the lowest cooldown on their elite: 48s when traited for faster recharge of signets).
Thief got a kitten elite. Untraited even :p Can go down to 36s CD.
Edit : ok, the kitten filter is goind too far! I cannot even say that a skill got a cooldown of 45 now oO. This is beyond ridiculous.
The Runes of Lyssa have an ICD already. It is set somewhere equal to or below 45 secs, but above 36 seconds, as is evidenced by the lack of a proc when using the elite skale venom on thief if traited. It is most likely 45 seconds ( not going to bother testing it ). This rune set is also fine, coming as someone who plays all the classes and primarily uses a necro for pvp.
When ground-targetted bone minion explosions become a thing, I will change this signature.- 2013 http://twitch.tv/alemfi/
runes of Lyssa are the only thing holding a number of builds together.
That alone makes those runes too strong compared to others.
The end goal of balance is better gameplay, right?
Destroying builds doesn’t create better gameplay.
If Anet was good at balancing and was actively working out kinks in cleansing so barebones amounts of condi removal was avaiblible to specs that needed it… then we could talk about nerfing Lyssa… but since Anet sucks at balancing and tweaking… all nerfing Lyssa would do is cut specs out of existance.
It definitely needs adjustment. ICD 90-120 seconds and some toning down, or have it remove all conditions only with the ICD it has, which should be 50 seconds according to what I read on the wiki* and other forums. That would help warriors and thieves with condition cleansing and not grant you near immortality on top.
I can understand why thieves especially would love this thing, as it makes you nigh invincible for 5+ seconds. It is ridiculously over the top for the thief profession, and who knows, perhaps the warrior will be OP with this in the future.
A little overview of what you gain every 50 secs on command.
Aegis: Block the next attack.
Fury: 20% critical chance increase.
Might – 35 power and condition damage increase.
Protection – 33% damage reduction.
Regeneration – Regenerates X health per second.
Retaliation – Reflects incoming damage back to its source each time they hit you.
Swiftness – 33% movement speed increase.
Vigor – Faster endurance regeneration
Stability – Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, or feared.
.. AND it removes ALL conditions. Compare it to other rune sets 6th effect and you will notice how absurdly strong this one is. Even with a 90 ICD it would overshadow other sets.
Lastly ask yourself: “Would I want to use another set of runes instead of the complete Lyssa set?”. If your answer is “no”, it is too strong.
I
I can understand why thieves especially would love this thing, as it makes you nigh invincible for 5+ seconds. It is ridiculously over the top for the thief profession, and who knows, perhaps the warrior will be OP with this in the future.
Lastly ask yourself: “Would I want to use another set of runes instead of the complete Lyssa set?”. If your answer is “no”, it is too strong.
If you want to QQ about overused…
Most pro dps/roamer run runes of the scholar.
You do have to remember, that it is on a 1→1.5s cast, all elite skills that is.
runes of Lyssa are the only thing holding a number of builds together.
That alone makes those runes too strong compared to others.
The end goal of balance is better gameplay, right?
Destroying builds doesn’t create better gameplay.
If Anet was good at balancing and was actively working out kinks in cleansing so barebones amounts of condi removal was avaiblible to specs that needed it… then we could talk about nerfing Lyssa… but since Anet sucks at balancing and tweaking… all nerfing Lyssa would do is cut specs out of existance.
So you are saying that several builds only work because of Lyssa. That in itself tells me how grossly overpowered the sets 6th ability is, if it can remedy an entire build. Runes are there to compliment a build, not be the sole reason of its success.
Runes are there to compliment a build, not be the sole reason of its success.
Yes, and devs exist to make a game enjoyable to play…
Just because in an ideal wonderland something is a certain way… doesn’t mean when it flops over to reality it will be best to be that way.
Again… the goal of balance is to make a game more enjoyable to play…
Since Anet kittening blows loads of kitten at actually introducing cleansing and stability like effects to specs that need it yet don’t have the traits to give it… Lyssa exists to fill that gap…
If Anet actually got their kitten together and fixed the core of the problem… then of course Lyssa wouldn’t need to fill that role… so can be changed…
And again… scholar runes are more popular in competitive play than Lyssa… so why aren’t you complaining about them ‘defining a build’ more?
It definitely
Lastly ask yourself: “Would I want to use another set of runes instead of the complete Lyssa set?”. If your answer is “no”, it is too strong.
Really?
Look at the other precision rune options. If you wanted precision (and aren’t a ranger) and didn’t answer “Of course I’ll take Lyssa runes”, we’re playing a different game. Perhaps the other precision runes need a buff to be competitive.
If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
I
I can understand why thieves especially would love this thing, as it makes you nigh invincible for 5+ seconds. It is ridiculously over the top for the thief profession, and who knows, perhaps the warrior will be OP with this in the future.
Lastly ask yourself: “Would I want to use another set of runes instead of the complete Lyssa set?”. If your answer is “no”, it is too strong.
If you want to QQ about overused…
Most pro dps/roamer run runes of the scholar.
You do have to remember, that it is on a 1->1.5s cast, all elite skills that is.
I am stating the obvious really. Show me ten other 6th set abilities that are as strong as Lyssa’s.
How much does 1 second cast time mean when you can cast it from stealth?
This is about the insane 6th ability that by no means is in the same league as other runes, which I find amazing – not in a good way, mind you.
AND regarding your last post, garethh.
I did suggest that all the offensive boons be stripped of this rune set, so that warriors and thieves would have access to condition cleansing, which is what you are saying is missing from thieves.
Do you not agree that taking the insane component away from the Lyssa set, which would be every boon (which grants you 5+ secs of near god status) would make it properly balanced?
I
I can understand why thieves especially would love this thing, as it makes you nigh invincible for 5+ seconds. It is ridiculously over the top for the thief profession, and who knows, perhaps the warrior will be OP with this in the future.
Lastly ask yourself: “Would I want to use another set of runes instead of the complete Lyssa set?”. If your answer is “no”, it is too strong.
If you want to QQ about overused…
Most pro dps/roamer run runes of the scholar.
You do have to remember, that it is on a 1->1.5s cast, all elite skills that is.
I am stating the obvious really. Show me ten other 6th set abilities that are as strong as Lyssa’s.
How much does 1 second cast time mean when you can cast it from stealth?
This is about the insane 6th ability that by no means is in the same league as other runes, which I find amazing – not in a good way, mind you.
AND regarding your last post, garethh.
I did suggest that all the offensive boons be stripped of this rune set, so that warriors and thieves would have access to condition cleansing, which is what you are saying is missing from thieves.
Do you not agree that taking the insane component away from the Lyssa set, which would be every boon (which grants you 5+ secs of near god status) would make it properly balanced?
Hey, I forgot every single player who uses Lyssa has access to many different forms of stealth.
Oh wait, that’s just thieves. But wait, some thieves don’t even use stealth! Man, that was a pointless statement.
Furthermore, as good as the 6th rune ability is, it lasts 5 seconds – many rune bonuses are permanent. That means they last aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllll the time. 5 seconds of “near godlike status” (I’m using your terms here, 5 seconds of every boon can vary from fight changing to nigh useless depending on class/spec/situation) is still 5 seconds of every minute, at best. Do we want to nerf all the runes that offer a permanent bonus, since their uptime massively dwarfs Lyssa?
If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
1, Add ICD of 70 seconds
2, Make it so it doesnt give stability
3, Make it so it only removes 3 conditions on use
These would all be cool.
So…..pretty much make it useless?
More obfuscated thief kittening. People are starting to realize that the “Waaaah, Thief” threads don’t get as much attention as the general playerbase Learns to play, so more extreme measures are needed.
If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
I am stating the obvious really. Show me ten other 6th set abilities that are as strong as Lyssa’s.
How much does 1 second cast time mean when you can cast it from stealth?
This is about the insane 6th ability that by no means is in the same league as other runes, which I find amazing – not in a good way, mind you.
AND regarding your last post, garethh.
I did suggest that all the offensive boons be stripped of this rune set, so that warriors and thieves would have access to condition cleansing, which is what you are saying is missing from thieves.
Do you not agree that taking the insane component away from the Lyssa set, which would be every boon (which grants you 5+ secs of near god status) would make it properly balanced?
You should see be now, that isn’t the way Anet makes games…
They don’t work to bring everything up to par, they take a group of ‘what is working best’ and try to not make anything too much better than that.
Lyssa is not an outstanding rune set…
Right now GW2 is insanely burst/bunker dominated… and 5 seconds of a ‘good buff on interuptable elite skill’ doesn’t beat many permanent and/or more easily achieved bonuses… like ‘scholar’ and ‘ogre’… and, of course for condi classes, condi duration ones…
If it will make you feel any better, there aren’t 10 6-piece abilities as good as Lyssa when it is activated, but that tragically is irrelevant to how a game should be tweaked and how Anet actually does balance…
@garethh
Did you know, runes of lyssa are the only condition duration runes (+10% all conditions duration)?
As Garethh pointed out, Nightmare.
Also, most specs have a “favored” condition (the one they have the best access too), and there are plenty of runes that lengthen the duration of that specific condition.
If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
Lastly ask yourself: “Would I want to use another set of runes instead of the complete Lyssa set?”. If your answer is “no”, it is too strong.
but my answer is yes?
I dip into 5x scholar + 1 divinity commonly for the extra damage. While I keep a lyssa set handy there are other things of use.
I would imagine so since there are players using Runes of Nightmare, 6x scholar, 5x scholar + 1 divinity, might stacking runes, Melandru, Rune of the Ogre is one everyone knows, Rune of Soldier…hmm rune of soldier is a good example of powerful rune effects.
Eh no need to go even further.
if you really want them to do that, they would also have to do this:
Nerf fire damage on necro by 50%
nerf fear damage by 60%
nerf deathshroud duration
For starters it can be interrupted. And before all you kittens who don’t know how to play there is about a 1 second cast time.
Next off only 2 professions actually use it. Namely the only ones with below 90s cd elites. If others are using it your using the wrong runes as a condi cleanse is nice but 90s+ for it isn’t worthwhile/viable.
Don’t complain about the boons as its only 5 seconds. Even full boon duration its ~7.
Thieves and Warriors only ones who use it, and the only 2 who need a full condi cleanse on a low cd. Last I checked thief and warrior complain about conditions.. Lets QQ more on thief/warrior forums!!
Sigh.. The rune set is fine.
Team Radioactive
Crysis, Lil Damage, Ovi, Jindavikk, Guard
Causing cancer all day.
yes, please remove even more condicleanse from the game so the worst necros out there have a chance to beat decent players.
just save your instant fear to interrupt the ultimate. when you are lucky you can even let the cast happen and fear directly after that. like this condis wont be removed and boon wont be applied because this set is actually bugged.
really. know your enemy and know how to counter it. when you got the knowledge learn to do it ingame. when you learned it and its still not working it might be too good.. or you are just too b.. havent finished your learning -.-, but dont go onto the forums and whine all day. i know its the easier way but not the right one.
I think it actually seems fairly obvious the developers meant it to be for elites like signet of rage of basilisk venom. I can’t imagine someone making this rune set and not thinking of those elites.
Anyways, lets think about this rune set clearly. It’s strong on two classes, warrior and thief, mostly s/d thief. One class is pretty balanced but the other is probably too strong. IMO just nerf the class its too strong on and not the rune set, because it seems obvious that this rune set is meant to be played on classes and specs with these elites.
Something Anet could have in mind in the future is adding more rune sets with very similar affects so warriors and thieves have more choices.
he was whining about OP engi few weeks ago ,now OP lyssa ….
Anet nerf everything that counters nekro couse Lordrosicky.5813 doesnt like when people cure his condis ,or are immune to them , or are immune to his fear ,having stabbility form runes XD he cant condi burst them in 3 seconds,so Anet pls give nekros confusion and 3 more fears form skills …..
XD
I don’t see a problem with lyssa as long as conditions are meant to be spammed. If condition spam was lowered all around, and condition removal was lowered all around (which I think it should), then yeah lyssa should be looked at.
Cause I ain’t perfect, I never said I was.
But now they’re hating cause a brotha finally got some buzz
www.twitch.tv/Follidus – Team Absolute Legends
he was whining about OP engi few weeks ago ,now OP lyssa ….
Anet nerf everything that counters nekro couse Lordrosicky.5813 doesnt like when people cure his condis ,or are immune to them , or are immune to his fear ,having stabbility form runes XD he cant condi burst them in 3 seconds,so Anet pls give nekros confusion and 3 more fears form skills …..
XD
My next thread will be on berserker stance
Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.
not removing the damaging condis but still great for several reasons
yep and thats the end of the list.
Who needs condi removal when you can perma dodge everything with no skill?
Runes of lyssa are lame. Used to be corrupt boon was a counter to this. But they unfairly nerfed corrupt boon. So lyssa now reigns supreme. Lyssa should only give 5 boons to match corrupt boon.
Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.
